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View Full Version : What level of gore/blood would YOU like to see in DX3?



therave39
24th Aug 2008, 23:17
I know this isn't a very important part of the game but the changes between DX1 and DX:IW bring up questions about what the consumer would want to see.
DX1 had gibbing (shooting or blowing up people into flying body parts), from what I remember, DX:IW had very little blood (only blood spray when shot/hit) and no gibbing.

Personally I'd like a sense of realism in it, such as visible location damage (like shown in the Source engine as an example), and basic blood splatters and pools.
However if they threw something in along the lines of Soldier of Fortune 2, I wouldn't complain;)

Also, as always, have some sort of a content filter for those playing around 'impressionable' minds.

Anyways, what do you guys want to see?

ewanlaing
24th Aug 2008, 23:20
It's a fine line. If they go for realistic, it's going to come across as too gory. I think they should just go for it though, and try to emulate the system F.E.A.R. had.
Though, as you say, a content filter would be a must.

Overtime
24th Aug 2008, 23:48
They should go for full realism. That would be amazing.

For instance, if your a sniper and you shoot an enemy in the head, it would be cool to see a hole where the bullet entered and the back of the head blown off....

oh, and stomach goo flowing out if you shoot the stomach....

Too extreme!?!

Jerion
24th Aug 2008, 23:59
Only if you want the game to have extreme criticism.

Defres
25th Aug 2008, 00:03
I support full realism 100% aswell. when you shoot a man, its not gonna be beautiful. its not gonna just leave a small "wound". its a player choice to whether to shoot and face/see the consequences. I personally prefer silent non-kill ways always, but sometimes its either the enemy or you :P those situations would be extremely intense thanks to realistic "gore-system".

K^2
25th Aug 2008, 03:32
I don't think it needs a whole lot of gore. But I do think blood spray and splatters can add to the game, and not just in terms of the gore, either.

I think, blood pools and spatters should attract AI guards. Because, I don't think you can shoot someone with a rifle, hide the body, and not leave a mess behind. And if I was guarding some secret object, and saw a pool of blood on the ground, I'm going for that alarm, even if the body isn't there anymore. This would, among other things, be an incentive to use larger variety of weapons.

Necros
25th Aug 2008, 03:59
I don't think the game should be too gory but I would like to see something like in DX1 not a too clean version like DX:IW.


I think, blood pools and spatters should attract AI guards. Because, I don't think you can shoot someone with a rifle, hide the body, and not leave a mess behind. And if I was guarding some secret object, and saw a pool of blood on the ground, I'm going for that alarm, even if the body isn't there anymore. This would, among other things, be an incentive to use larger variety of weapons.
:thumbsup: Exactly, like in the Thief games.

DXeXodus
25th Aug 2008, 04:14
The game should feature a multi-levelled gore system, which can either be quite realistic in terms of gibbing and blood effects or non-existent. Some players prefer no to play with gore enabled. I personally prefer to play with a higher gore setting, not because i am a psycopath, but rather because it adds to the overall realism in the game. It should be implemented with moderation however, and not over the top. Soldier of Fortune was close to too much gore IMO.

Freddo
25th Aug 2008, 04:26
In some games like FEAR, the gore is a major part of the game. A slow motion orgy of gore while heads and limbs are flying.

But that's not really what Deus Ex is about. Now, I wouldn't complain if Deus Ex 3 got an indepth gore system, but I won't complain either if it's just a pool of blood where they died.

The game AI should be able to react on whatever blood that is there, though.

Ritter
25th Aug 2008, 04:38
well,I think the violence lvl like Deus ex 1 should be fine,but I won't complain if it'll be like SOF 2.
BTW bring back the death scream from Deus ex 1,it was sweeeeetttttt

iWait
25th Aug 2008, 05:04
I loved how in Bioshock if you set someone on fire they looked similar to a real-life burn victim afterwards. Personally, I've always wanted to see an accurate gore system in a game. As in if you shoot a civilian in their knee, their knee is blown apart, and they try to limp away. If someone sees the blood and bone fragments on the ground they react to it.
But above all else I'd love to see an intricate fire system in a game. Usually If you set an object on fire it burns for a couple seconds at full force then goes out like a switch. It would be wonderful to be able to stack flammable furniture in a hallway and set it ablaze, blocking an entry/exit point to a building and so forth.

pauldenton
25th Aug 2008, 10:59
Extreme realism is the way to go, not for the gore factor but for the immersion that realism brings, but make it optional for the more delicate and possibly set to a lower level as std to reduce criticism.

In fact making the game more gory as in realistic may actually make people consider what they are doing as it will/may effect people on a more emotional level.

It may encourage some people to actually take a more passive approach in the game, remember DX gave you the choice of NOT blasting everyone to pieces!

Overtime
25th Aug 2008, 11:35
In fact making the game more gory as in realistic may actually make people consider what they are doing as it will/may effect people on a more emotional level.


Exactly. You could even go further and have NPC shout during a firefight, "He shot Jimmy!" That coupled with a realistic death, would make you feel rather guilty. Some of the AI should have a relationships with each other. For instance, you would expect the Silhouette members to be close friends and have realistic reactions rather then just saying "man down" etc.

Would you agree with a prolonged death mechanism. Eg, if you shot someone in the arm, that would put them out of action. You could then decide to finish them off or use first aid to bandage them up. You could get useful info for not killing him...

Having someone on the edge of death might open up new dialog options...

Fig89
25th Aug 2008, 18:15
In my opinion, while graphically realistic death is quite important, whats MORE important is audiablely realistic death. I'm talking Saving Private Ryan versus Battlefield 1942. I'm talking SOF II versus TF2.

What needs to be focused on is not so much precise graphical realism, but overall realism, to indicate the results of your decisions. This means convincing dialouge and monolouge, altered AI states, convincing behaviors and animations as well as something like persistant burn textures and at least wound decals that stay on a body.

If I shoot an enemy in say, the ankle, I would much rather have option 2 that option 1:

1) His ankle blows apart, causing his entire foot to explode, causing him to say something like "NOOOO!!!" and die.

2) He lets out a blood curdling scream and begins to limp. As he tries to recover from the wound he looks around quickly and tries to figure out where it came from. (say im cloaked) He actually pulls a radio off of his hip and calls in for back up, and retreats into a corner where he sits down and continues to whimper untill backup arrives.

Larington
25th Aug 2008, 20:35
This will probably sound like a cop-out but:

Let the player choose, within reason.

In all cases though if you kill a guard there will almost certainly be indications that someone died there (Depending on cause of death), NPCs should notice bloody stains, the gore setting decides what amount of blood might be left behind.

Anyone remember how in golden-eye on the console where you shot an NPC would affect how they react (In terms of animations in particular) - take that system but adjust it to give a more realistic feel, particularly in audio cues and the reactions of friendlies. If your best buddy gets shot in the leg, you're going to help him get out of the line of fire, unless your a pretty callous human being or scared out of your wits.

B0b_P@ge
25th Aug 2008, 20:54
I would also agree with everyone here about making it '100% realism', but under one strict condition: The violence shouldn't be senseless like SOFT2 where you kill armies of anonymous walking corpses(heh heh hee) just to get from point A to point B (Means to an end) without a thought but it should be the other way around. Players should be aware that if they kill, they kill a human, a person that had a reason for being where there; for example, wasn't it shock when you realized your enemy, the NSF, where really a bunch of ordinary people (like a grocery clerk, office worker, etc) who joined out of extreme circumstances and they didn't have diabolical plans like you thought, instead they where trying to help people? Or when you went to Paris and you hear that family cry about letting their young son join the MJ12 soldiers because they where poor? DX3 violence should revolve in the same way DX1 did and that: Sure you can kill the person to get from point A to point B but is it ethically right? Do the means justify the end or does the end justify the means? If you decide to kill, you will have an ugly sight in front of you; a 150lbs of chewed up bubblegum, black scorched body or someone lying dieing and moaning, or calling out realistic stuff.

I have never played a fps game in my life that teaches you that murdering is wrong besides DX1, I didn't understand/care what Carter ment until I realized who my enemy was and why they where there....

jcp28
25th Aug 2008, 22:10
So death should certainly be realistic, and there should be lots of gore. But not pointless gore either. Blood ought to be able to shoot out of somebody's kneecaps if you shoot them, but they shouldn't blow apart. That would be over the top.

I wouldn't mind getting gibs after blowing somebody apart with a rocket launcher. It's actually realistic to see someone get blown apart even though not in "gib fashion" But at the same time, I think it would be smarter to have something like Fig89's option 2, where a shot guard would attempt to crawl away and/or shout for help. This is a deep game, with a deep story and people we end up caring about. If we do something like blowing a guy's arm off with a shotgun, that could add "cheap violence" that would make the game more of a straight-up shooter than an FPS/RPG like Deus Ex was.

foxberg
26th Aug 2008, 12:16
I think the game should be made as realistic as it could be. That means gore. But players should choose a level at which to play. At the highest you do blow a hand out with the close-up shotgun. At the lowest it merely a splash of blood. And yes, guards crawling for help would add extra realism to the game as well.

gamer0004
26th Aug 2008, 12:20
I don't think it needs a whole lot of gore. But I do think blood spray and splatters can add to the game, and not just in terms of the gore, either.

I think, blood pools and spatters should attract AI guards. Because, I don't think you can shoot someone with a rifle, hide the body, and not leave a mess behind. And if I was guarding some secret object, and saw a pool of blood on the ground, I'm going for that alarm, even if the body isn't there anymore. This would, among other things, be an incentive to use larger variety of weapons.

I agree, but it should be possible to clean up the mess! It's fairly easy to clean tyles or metal, even in case of blood. It's very annoying to have a realistic system like this screwed up because you can't do the very simple cleaning you can do IRL. Of course, cleaning doesn't help for forensic guys, but they're not present anyway.

iWait
26th Aug 2008, 15:18
Cleaning does deal with forensic guys, if you make sure you retrace your steps and coat the whole crime scene with bleach.

pauldenton
26th Aug 2008, 15:45
Do you get to do some dusting and bog cleaning also?

sounds like a drag to me, i think we have been over this one before.

foxberg
26th Aug 2008, 16:02
I think we should be very cautious going into all these small details. Try to implement everything and the game WILL become a drag.

jcp28
26th Aug 2008, 16:43
In that case, it would be best to leave out cartoonish amounts of gore.

To make things clear, it could detract from the serious mood of the game. There might be some people that want to be able to blow apart greasels with shotgun shells, but I think that could be a little more detracting than necessary.

foxberg
26th Aug 2008, 17:01
There might be some people that want to be able to blow apart greasels with shotgun shells...

That would be me...

Actually, I was referring to tasks like cleaning up blood off the floor thing. That is similar to have to take necessary breaks during the game for JC, or whoever, to have a pee.

gamer0004
26th Aug 2008, 18:08
That would be me...

Actually, I was referring to tasks like cleaning up blood off the floor thing. That is similar to have to take necessary breaks during the game for JC, or whoever, to have a pee.

If they don't implement this then the guards shouldn't react to blood. Because it would be the first thing for me to do so if I can't do that in a game while it does affect me...

Xcom
26th Aug 2008, 20:22
I am all for realistic blood and gore, but I doubt it'll happen.

Tsumaru
27th Aug 2008, 01:07
I want blood everywhere. If I shoot someone in the head, I want to see bone fragments flying through the air. If I rip someone apart with a machinegun, I want bits of intestine spewing across my screen which I have to wipe away manually with a cloth. I WANT TO BATHE IN THE LIFE-FLUIDS OF MY VICTIMS!

Revixy
27th Aug 2008, 01:14
As mentioned in the beginning of this thread, an option should be available for those who prefer not to play with gore enabled, but I personally prefer to play with gore enabled, in any game, doesn't matter what game it is.

The more realism the better, is how I look at it.

free2game
3rd Sep 2008, 18:08
Really realistic, not some kind of action movie massive squib type of violence thing. IE bullet holes around wounded areas but not massives ones and have blood spread like a bleeding wound would.

Revenaut
4th Sep 2008, 22:33
Yes please a full detailed anatomically correct body for us gorefreaks to dismember and dissect. Realism is the only way!

pewbeng
5th Sep 2008, 22:40
Hey. (Whee! First post!)

Make it grim. Definitely.

You should be able to be affected by the disgusting things you can do with a gun. It can certainly be a reward to see a character you really grew to dislike blown into pieces. But it also makes it harder to kill a character that helped you throughout the game just because you feel like going crazy.

For me, gore is less about massive amounts of blood... more about giving my moral compass a nudge once in a while. This only works if the game really sucks me in, of course.

If I use the baton instead of the rocket launcher, I really should get the sense that I did the necessary "disabling" in a more pacifist way. Not just by upping the invisible karma-o-meter, but by purely looking at "what I've done".

Seriously. Weapons are evil. They kill, they dismember and it's a damn gruesome business. If a game tries to deliver it's own universe as believable and there's violence in it, I think "gore" should be a natural part of it.



--By the way, a little off-topic:
One thing that's been bugging me ever since I got into games is that "they" seem to be immediately rated more mature if there's one drop of blood in it. Isn't it sort of contra-productive to give the targeted audience the idea that weapons don't kill people (As in the German version of Half-Life, where the dead just sat down and shook their heads) or don't make them bleed? Just something to chew on.

foxberg
5th Sep 2008, 22:46
By the way, a little off-topic:
One thing that's been bugging me ever since I got into games is that "they" seem to be immediately rated more mature if there's one drop of blood in it. Isn't it sort of contra-productive to give the targeted audience the idea that weapon's don't kill people (As in the German version of Half-Life, where the dead just sat down and shook their heads) or don't make them bleed? Just something to chew on.

They have this stupid show "Gossip Girl" at 8:00pm on a public channel. Every early teen child can watch that crap. So the sex and violence on TV is OK? But a drop of blood in a game get's it 17+ rating? How much sense does it make?

Zegano
9th Sep 2008, 03:42
For me, gore is less about massive amounts of blood... more about giving my moral compass a nudge once in a while. This only works if the game really sucks me in, of course.

I don't think that most gamers would feel guilt over seeing an enemies head explode. I mean, I've played FEAR, which is supposedly incredibly violent, and I never felt any regret about mowing down those guys and didn't really notice the blood at all. On the other hand the only time I ever tried going evil in Fable I did the Attack Barrow Fields Quest. At the end your told to execute a trader who begs for his life. he talks about his wife and kids, and I just couldn't do it. Its stuff like that which affects the modern desensitized gamer, in my opinion and experience.

pewbeng
9th Sep 2008, 08:39
You are absolutely right, it depends on the setting.

It was "just" to kill those guys in FEAR, because you were the good guy, and they were the bad guys. That was pretty simple. Plus, they started it!!! :rasp:

In the morality rollercoaster that Deus Ex is - that Deus Ex 3 hopefully will be - it's more complex. Or it should be, in my opinion.


I believe it to be incredibly hard to make the player feel guilty. I think BioShock did that relatively well. You know. The Little Sister thingie. "Kill them and gain power...or...Not."

imported_van_HellSing
9th Sep 2008, 08:46
Speaking about FEAR though, how did you feel when you had to
execute the kneeling, unarmed Paxton Fettel, who you now know is your brother?


EDIT: pewbeng, you bring up the Little Sisters in Bioshock. Well, that didn't do anything for me. "LOOK, MORAL CHOICE HERE!". Too forced. What did however strike a nerve, was killing the Big Daddies. What ever did they do to you? They don't attack you, they're prety nice, the Little Sisters like them and they show affection to the Little Sisters. I felt bad.

Dragonlord
9th Sep 2008, 09:40
I'm usually against excessive violence. Deus-Ex sold it to me that it allowed you to finish it without ( one exception, not counting the hack to circumvent it ) killing anyone ( another except, animals, since they can't be numbed ). Too much gore would distract from the main point of the game ( if it's going to be similar to the first installment ). So moderate violence but make all "knock-outable" would be nice :D

Abram730
11th Oct 2008, 04:56
In some games like FEAR, the gore is a major part of the game. A slow motion orgy of gore while heads and limbs are flying.

But that's not really what Deus Ex is about. Now, I wouldn't complain if Deus Ex 3 got an indepth gore system, but I won't complain either if it's just a pool of blood where they died.

The game AI should be able to react on whatever blood that is there, though.

an in depth gore system would be nice

I think more important would be location damage where NPC's would go down but not be dead. simply put, a leg with say 90%-100% damage goes ragdoll and AI reacts depending on NPC stats. Loose both legs and fall. if an NPC can give up on fighting you they loose any regen "please let me live/go". They could fake till there legs are ok or keep shooting. Player's choice if they keep shooting, but the leg need not go flying off.

or perhaps some groans and movement before death. 0 health ragdoll groan and move as they die. The same type of movement could be used with tranq darts.. fall, crawl, stop moving.

It would be nice if an NPC dropped their weapon because there arm was shot up. Again rag doll affect would work nice as dropping the weapon would be in the code. I thing that would require some work though.. having the ragdoll affect being applied to only parts of the body.

Perhaps augmented arms and legs take more damage and last till 100%. Thus they get right back up or just wobble a bit and don't drop weapons as easy.

what do you think? Idea wise and complexity wise? How much in the way of resources would that take for full implementation? Has it been tried before?

~Psychotic~
11th Oct 2008, 05:32
Go for realism to be honest, that's my opinion on it. If you shoot someone in the side of the head a point-blank range with a 12 gauge shotgun, how much of their head do you think is going to be left? Not much, that's how much. Not damn much.

Hell, could add more realism like shooting in certain areas makes them bleed more (like shooting in a major artery, let's say, the heart lol). And I would like to note that a grenade doesn't always blow the **** out of someone and make their body pieces fly. Depends how close they are to the grenade, in fact, the shrapnel does more damage in most cases then the explosion itself (and that's how they are designed).

A direct hit with any sort of rocket would blow you to pieces. All this sounds extremely gory, and it is, but it's realistic. And I like a bit of realism in the games I play. A content-filter would also be nice too.

CarloGervasi
11th Oct 2008, 05:36
Something realistic. Not comically gory ala Fallout 3, and not comically clean ala most games.

Big Orange
11th Oct 2008, 23:24
You should get realistic body damage depending on what weapon you're using: a high velocity 20mm sniper rifle would punch holes the size of dinner plates in a person's torso or virtually removes his/her head, while a 9mm pistol at medium range would inflict an injury that would not necessarily kill the target in most cases (but it would do nearly as much damage as the sniper rifle if fired at point blank range). A automatic carbine or submachine gun would be somewhere inbetween. And whether the target is wearing a anti-ballistic vest and helmet would make a lot of difference.

Bluey71
12th Oct 2008, 10:58
Exactly. You could even go further and have NPC shout during a firefight, "He shot Jimmy!" That coupled with a realistic death, would make you feel rather guilty. Some of the AI should have a relationships with each other. For instance, you would expect the Silhouette members to be close friends and have realistic reactions rather then just saying "man down" etc.

Would you agree with a prolonged death mechanism. Eg, if you shot someone in the arm, that would put them out of action. You could then decide to finish them off or use first aid to bandage them up. You could get useful info for not killing him...

Having someone on the edge of death might open up new dialog options...


In my opinion, while graphically realistic death is quite important, whats MORE important is audiablely realistic death. I'm talking Saving Private Ryan versus Battlefield 1942. I'm talking SOF II versus TF2.

What needs to be focused on is not so much precise graphical realism, but overall realism, to indicate the results of your decisions. This means convincing dialouge and monolouge, altered AI states, convincing behaviors and animations as well as something like persistant burn textures and at least wound decals that stay on a body.

If I shoot an enemy in say, the ankle, I would much rather have option 2 that option 1:

1) His ankle blows apart, causing his entire foot to explode, causing him to say something like "NOOOO!!!" and die.

2) He lets out a blood curdling scream and begins to limp. As he tries to recover from the wound he looks around quickly and tries to figure out where it came from. (say im cloaked) He actually pulls a radio off of his hip and calls in for back up, and retreats into a corner where he sits down and continues to whimper untill backup arrives.

These two posts get my vote.

Lets not forget non-leathal takedowns though, please.

Mecranth
12th Oct 2008, 11:39
As realistic as possible without taking it too far.

~Psychotic~
12th Oct 2008, 12:11
Lets not forget non-leathal takedowns though, please.

Yeah, who here actually went through Liberty Island without killing anyone. I did lol. I remembered that I was a cop, so I used my stun prod.

THAT'S WHAT PAUL WOULD DO.

xD

Inferno Molten
13th Oct 2008, 21:46
About blood cleaning, cmon let's not forget we're in the future here! perhaps there would be a high-techy gadget one could use to get rid of the blood quickly?

3nails4you
14th Oct 2008, 00:33
They should go for full realism. That would be amazing.

For instance, if your a sniper and you shoot an enemy in the head, it would be cool to see a hole where the bullet entered and the back of the head blown off....

oh, and stomach goo flowing out if you shoot the stomach....

Too extreme!?!

Well, if not extreme, using up unnecessary resources. The amount of work going into modeling both the entire outside and inside of the body would eat up a lot of processing power. For example, if you've ever used a sandbox and spawned 20 npc's on a single map, then 40, etc., you notice a considerable jump in lag (if not lag, a somewhat noticeable loss in fps). Imagine making those models 2 or 3 times more detailed. Crash and burn. I think, however, that the gore level of DX1 is fine and would appease both sides of the argument, especially with a filter (maybe a parental code-lock that parents can put on for the young ones?).

pewbeng
14th Oct 2008, 01:21
Don't parental locks deliver exactly the wrong message? (At least in the cases I know of. For example the scientists sitting down in Half-Life.) That upon getting shot at it's rainbows pouring out of a wound instead of our very precious life juice? That instead of dropping dead without a doubt the former living being is marked "asleep"? I think it's very important that even the young ones associate weapons with the possibility of horrible violence - and games seem pretty much the most harmless way to teach that.

From a parenting angle(which is a hypothetical one for me), such "protective measures" seem contraproductive to me. More like belittlement of violence than protection of minors.


I don't want to tell anyone how to raise their youngsters, I guess having the possibility to tone the violence down a notch can't be bad, but I'd love to hear other people's thoughts about a parental lock.

JCD
14th Oct 2008, 03:59
What did however strike a nerve, was killing the Big Daddies. What ever did they do to you? They don't attack you, they're prety nice, the Little Sisters like them and they show affection to the Little Sisters. I felt bad.
That makes two of us ;)

Really great game btw.

---

About the violence/realism level:

1st of all, None Lethal Takedowns. Let's not forget about this people, it's a core characteristic imo.

2ndly, I saw many people bringing up F.E.A.R. I find this a rather good idea. F.E.A.R. had a really decent violence/realism level, without being too gory, like Soldier of Fortune games. I like this whole thing, F.E.A.R. resembling violence/realism level seems pretty good for me. Not extreme, not un-realistic.

Of course, this is not something TOO important for me - Half-Life 2 has a good violence/realism level, without being ultra-realistic. No need to go that far.

Oh, and certainly, blood stains should be detected by guards, etc. Nice idea from the Thief series, I like this one.

Abram730
17th Oct 2008, 01:44
That makes two of us ;)

Really great game btw.

---

About the violence/realism level:

1st of all, None Lethal Takedowns. Let's not forget about this people, it's a core characteristic imo.

2ndly, I saw many people bringing up F.E.A.R. I find this a rather good idea. F.E.A.R. had a really decent violence/realism level, without being too gory, like Soldier of Fortune games. I like this whole thing, F.E.A.R. resembling violence/realism level seems pretty good for me. Not extreme, not un-realistic.


I prefer the term "Less then Lethal"
chemical KO like darts.. irritants like pepper spray
taser- many zaps... with cartridge's to hit from range. or taser munition that shocks with movement. adding a shock system can be implemented into different ammo for different weapons.

acoustic.. like a sound laser (Active Denial System)
microwave beams - starts to cook people (Active Denial System)

NK007
26th Dec 2008, 00:37
I am performing thread necromancy so that, hopefully, someone will hear me out. I cannot stress this enough: BRING BACK EXPLODING PEOPLE!!!

Blade_hunter
26th Dec 2008, 06:07
Since the gore level can be chosen and have in therms of gor levels something like quake - unreal series would be fine like they did in DX 1 but if they did the same as in SOF series I won't complain too, but if they release the SDK we can have a gore mod like in UT series :D

spm1138
26th Dec 2008, 06:29
Total non-issue.

I don't think this stuff adds anything to a game if you're not 13.

SOF way overdid this stuff.

There's not that many weapons you'll be using where anything more than blood is realistic anyway from the looks of it.

Also, if people are bleeding enough to leave a big trail they're probably about to go into shock.

Malah
26th Dec 2008, 10:29
As long as bodies slump to the ground realistically and don't fly around like they do in movies & most games, I'm happy.

I doubt the game will have anything other than the childish mist most games have these days. Handling of this issue is extremely hypocritical. It's ok to have movies like SAW, but when a game does the same it's a sign of the apocalypse.

The worst game in recent times is Call of Juarez, where you actually couldn't shoot animals ( IIRC the game ended if you killed one) or corpses. :mad2:

NK007
26th Dec 2008, 11:32
Total non-issue.

I don't think this stuff adds anything to a game if you're not 13.

SOF way overdid this stuff.

There's not that many weapons you'll be using where anything more than blood is realistic anyway from the looks of it.

Also, if people are bleeding enough to leave a big trail they're probably about to go into shock.

I have never shot someone directly with high explosives, but I can tell you that they won't just slump to the ground. So yes, it is an issue: that exploding corpse effect in DX added so much to handling explosives: "this could be me". And it could be you. Everything pha suggested is really nice and it shouldn't be too complicated (Hitman did blood splatters on walls and blood trails, and even the first Hitman did bullet holes), but the simplest of these is the exploding man. That blood curling scream alone made me smile at night, as well.

spm1138
26th Dec 2008, 12:00
I just don't it'd be worth the problems with certification boards, censorship and the like.

That stuff costs time and money so publishers are averse.

If you want to see explosives casualties and burns victims go look at them on the internet. Weirdos :p

NK007
26th Dec 2008, 15:20
Deus Ex 1 wasbloody. What was its ESRB rating? Either way it was successful.

SageSavage
26th Dec 2008, 15:33
That was another era. Actually many old games were much more gory and cruel than those released nowadays. It's mostly the result of three factors:

1) Games receive much more attention today, so the target audience includes way more people that can't (or don't want to) stomach extreme/realistic violence.

2) Modern graphics are much more explicit and less abstract, making the violence way more obvious for...

3) politicans and parents! As a result of this increased attention, there are more concerns and discussions about games. Games became the universal scapegoat, replacing videos (which once replaced Rock'n'Roll).

NK007
26th Dec 2008, 18:10
3) politicans and parents! As a result of this increased attention, there are more concerns and discussions about games. Games became the universal scapegoat, replacing videos (which once replaced Rock'n'Roll).

**** them.

Blade_hunter
26th Dec 2008, 18:15
It's for that reason I talk about the SDK and modding, In Unreal series for example we have some gore level, not too much gore, but sufficient to see cadavers reduced in pieces after been exploded by explosives or a powerful shot
I dislike many FPS from EA because when they die they looks more virtual than real.
OK in UT for example they weren't fully realistic, but I expect some gibing after used explosives in a corpse

For me UT has a standard gore system, but a selectable system would be the best thing in UT, DX ...

I just think if DX 3 manages the body a la DX 1 I hope it will happen, a modding team can make a better gore system, in UT series we have some "mutators" that allow to have more gore than the normal setting.

I just think I don't wan't a game with a 16+ thing in the box and have a reduced gore ...

rhalibus
27th Dec 2008, 08:36
I really think Deus Ex got it right: realistic damage, and if you were near an explosion you were reduced to gibs. Bodies in DX2 may have had rag-doll physics, but they were indestructible.

It always frustrated me that you could modify so many values in the init files for DX2 (weapon damage, font size) but you couldn't reduce the extreme cartoonish physics that allowed you to blow someone back twenty feet with a shotgun...

Graeme
4th Jan 2009, 21:58
Gritty, realism would be awesome. A dark, lies/betrayal/deceit/conspiracy game with lots of rough streets, back alleys and secret places (like DX1 and hopefully DX3 to an extent) with death and gore so real that you're heart is pumping out of your chest when it comes time to put three rounds into someone's chest in the alley. Then imagine it being such a horrifying experience for you that you go out of your way to avoid killing whereas if you find it satisfying, you don't mind going in guns blazing.

Deus Ex 1 did a better job of this than DX2. DX2 it felt so fake and bland. Compare the latest Rambo film where a day without blood is like a day without sunshine to the first 'God Father' film when Mike is going to shoot the people he's dining with, at point blank. In Rambo, death is no big deal but in films like The God Father, there are fewer deaths but each is so much more significant a powerful and frightening.

Whether or not DX3 is the game to pull off a hardcore realistic 'actually feel like you're shooting someone dead' feel, I don't know. To be honest, rich characters with an intricate, well told, story is more important.

Necros
9th Jan 2009, 18:59
I don't think this stuff adds anything to a game if you're not 13.
You are absolutely wrong there. It adds a level of realism if it's done right. Not too much but not too little either. Show the damage on the bodies to a degree, let them be destructible and of course there has to be blood too.

In more than one of my playthroughs, Adam will be an arsonist pyromaniac who pees Napalm
Do I detect a Farscape reference here? :D

BendingUnit
10th Jan 2009, 01:59
I'm not a big fan of gore (gibs really).
Blood splatter and pools of blood are fine.
But gibs flying everywhich way according to ragdoll physics does not impress me.
The only times I think gibs really fly are with explosives and high-calibur ammunition.
Since this is futuristic, lasers cutting off limbs I can approve.

The animations I feel are what really sell a realistic death. Most audio cues I feel would be too distant to really be noticed.
CoD4MW has some decent death animations, but could be improved with hitbox recognition.
I never felt as though where you shot the target had anything to do with which animation was played, which reduces the effect.

iWait
10th Jan 2009, 08:38
You know what I want to see? Realistic fire. I have never seen that in a game, and it would be so cool to see realistic fire implemented in a game. Like, you can set fire to a desk, it smolders (trust me i've set a lot of fires in my time), then all of a sudden you see a fairly large flame, then the whole desk is engulfed. That way you could systematically set traps with fire.
1. You see a room full of enemies. The room has a normal amount of furniture in it, and the floor's carpet.
2. You drag a couple chairs in front of the door to the room.
3. Set fire to the chairs, wait a while, and when it's just about to start blazing open the door and throw a Molotov in .

Also, to a lesser degree, the damage fire causes to bodies. Kinda like what they did in Bioshock, except it scales with the coverage and intensity, and isn't as extreme.

Though this will probably never happen :(

GmanPro
10th Jan 2009, 09:00
Yeah, you'd probably just set off the alarms and the sprinklers :thumb:

Jerion
10th Jan 2009, 09:45
Realistic Fire is a neat idea- but in order for it to happen you might as well go all the way to a fully destructible and constructed world a la Red Faction Guerrilla.

I would like reasonable amounts of gore- if I pop a .50 round into a targets head I expect that head to explode. Likewise, if I strike with a sword I would expect for the victim to lose an arm, leg, or head.

Necros
10th Jan 2009, 12:06
You know what I want to see? Realistic fire. I have never seen that in a game, and it would be so cool to see realistic fire implemented in a game. Like, you can set fire to a desk, it smolders (trust me i've set a lot of fires in my time), then all of a sudden you see a fairly large flame, then the whole desk is engulfed. That way you could systematically set traps with fire.
1. You see a room full of enemies. The room has a normal amount of furniture in it, and the floor's carpet.
2. You drag a couple chairs in front of the door to the room.
3. Set fire to the chairs, wait a while, and when it's just about to start blazing open the door and throw a Molotov in .

Also, to a lesser degree, the damage fire causes to bodies. Kinda like what they did in Bioshock, except it scales with the coverage and intensity, and isn't as extreme.

Though this will probably never happen :(
Don't be pessimistic, in a few years it could be done, now it would consume too much of the resources, I think. Far Cry 2 is a good step in this direction, I love the way the fire is spreading.

GmanPro
10th Jan 2009, 19:42
Realistic Fire is a neat idea- but in order for it to happen you might as well go all the way to a fully destructible and constructed world a la Red Faction Guerrilla.

I would like reasonable amounts of gore- if I pop a .50 round into a targets head I expect that head to explode. Likewise, if I strike with a sword I would expect for the victim to lose an arm, leg, or head.

I want to explode into 100 pieces of goop if I fall more than a few stories... :whistle:

spm1138
10th Jan 2009, 23:36
Realistic Fire is a neat idea- but in order for it to happen you might as well go all the way to a fully destructible and constructed world a la Red Faction Guerrilla.

I would like reasonable amounts of gore- if I pop a .50 round into a targets head I expect that head to explode. Likewise, if I strike with a sword I would expect for the victim to lose an arm, leg, or head.

The problem with realistic fire is system load if you have it propagate.

FC2 had spreading fire but it didn't spread very far and even the small conflagrations you could get going made my rig chug a bit.

iWait
11th Jan 2009, 03:23
The problem with realistic fire is system load if you have it propagate.

FC2 had spreading fire but it didn't spread very far and even the small conflagrations you could get going made my rig chug a bit.

That's sort of what talking about. Another thing is the sheer amount of variables associated with fire and the spread of fire. Maybe if they will have a more dedicated game with realistic fire, but I doubt more diverse games will have realistic fire for a long time.

FreedomForever
11th Jan 2009, 06:52
For this kinda of game I don't really care of the level of gore/blood(Im concerned more about this being like deus ex 1).

Anyways I would love if this game was realistic.By this I mean if you shoot somebody in the head,their head will blow up but also if you shoot somebody in the leg their leg will blow up and they wont die.They could stay their for like 3 minutes or however it takes for people to die in real life in those situations.This will make the game revolutionary IMO.

Im tired of shooting a guy in the leg and having him die on me.

This will add a great element and even add the moral of whether shooting the head off the guy who has no legs anymore and can't really do anything to defend himself because he is yelling for other guys to come or is going towards to pull a switch or is just asking forgiveness to god but he could still be dangerous since he can call somebody when you leave or something etc.

Yeah the game will be freaking cool if dude's didn't die that quickly and died like in real life.

NK007
11th Jan 2009, 06:58
Hell, I reached a conclusion: if the firefights don't make me vomit, I'm not pleased.

rhalibus
14th Jan 2009, 07:20
I would love to see not just a new blood texture on the NPC if shot, but an actual human expression of pain...one realistic enough to affect your decision to shoot people in the future. This is something Warren Spector talked about: How would you change your play style if you could see the anguish on someone's face if you hurt them?

Based on what we've heard about the expressive content of the NPC conversations, this could be possible.

NK007
14th Jan 2009, 13:11
Would you even notice as you're emptying a clip into him?

What made me think a bit more if I want to shoot a person or not, besides the main characters which I can decide to shoot or not, was in Sniper Elite and Hitman, where after you shot a grunt, you didn't always kill them. Sometimes, they would lay on the floor, grunting and gasping for air as their bodies are in immense pain. That really made think whether to shoot him or not... In Hitman, I walked up to them and just shot them, 'cause there's nothing cooler than walking to a nearly dead guy and putting on in his head with a silenced pistol. In Sniper, however, I let them live, in the sorta hope someone would take care of them. This sort of changed my way of play to a degree, I guess.

Radius86
14th Jan 2009, 13:49
Would you even notice as you're emptying a clip into him?

What made me think a bit more if I want to shoot a person or not, besides the main characters which I can decide to shoot or not, was in Sniper Elite and Hitman, where after you shot a grunt, you didn't always kill them. Sometimes, they would lay on the floor, grunting and gasping for air as their bodies are in immense pain. That really made think whether to shoot him or not... In Hitman, I walked up to them and just shot them, 'cause there's nothing cooler than walking to a nearly dead guy and putting on in his head with a silenced pistol. In Sniper, however, I let them live, in the sorta hope someone would take care of them. This sort of changed my way of play to a degree, I guess.

Im not a very sympathetic person myself when it comes to shooting in games. Because more often than not Iv encountered enemies that prefer to still keep pulling the trigger whether they're in pain or not. I feel no remorse to dispatch these fellows with extreme prejudice. :p

KaiTenSatsuma
14th Jan 2009, 15:46
Its actually funny if you're talking about anguish on virtual beings, at least in my experience: Once I was picking off North Korean soldiers from afar in Mercenaries and started thinking about "What if this was real life? We're only enemies because at this stage in 'history' the governments of the world dictate that the NK are evil bastards and we have to stop them, what right do I have to decide who lives and dies? He could (arguably) have family he is fighting for, don't many soldiers join the ranks to protect the people they care about?"
__________________________

That's as far as I got before I decided to keep playing, gore and blood in a game isn't really the huge draw for me, I'm a bit turned off by gibbing in general, though I'm not above tossing bodies around a bit to keep myself viscerally entertained like in a Half-Life 2, Fallout 3 or "The Darkness", If martial combat is included then disabling moves would have to be made apparent like limp arms or legs w/ limping...you'll probably be able to guess that the guy dragging himself away from you in horrid fear was the guy you shot in the kneecaps/testies.

...On a completely unrelated note, does anyone volunteer to model for a soldier shot in the nuts?

Modeling extremely detailed expressions for regular enemies might be difficult if the game is being considered for consoles as well as PCs, then again maybe it wouldn't with the way consoles have been progressing. Sound would be important though.

GmanPro
14th Jan 2009, 17:37
Having enemies run away when they start to get too hurt was just annoying in DX1. They'd always run off and alert everyone and I'd have to chase them all over the damn place. Ugh.

What would be better is if I shoot somebody, then they should crawl around slowly trying to get away. Not sprint at an epic pace. This sorta made the tranquilizer crossbow pretty hard to use too imo.


Modeling extremely detailed expressions for regular enemies might be difficult if the game is being considered for consoles as well as PCs, then again maybe it wouldn't with the way consoles have been progressing. Sound would be important though.

Well, considering that the 360 uses technology that is what, 5 years old now? I'd say that consoles are only slowing the PC down. At least as far as graphics are concerned.

teknikal-vision
14th Jan 2009, 17:45
I think the gore blood factor just needs to be at a level that gives the right amount of feedback expected from the player. Realistic, but not unecessarily gory. I don't expect too much gore unless AJ manages to get his hands on the chainsaw rifle from Gears of War. Which wont happen; according to the PC Powerplay feature on Deus Ex 3 there will be mature content but nothing over the top. Which sounds about right.

You just need enough of the right feedback that triggers an emotional response in the player; guilt/horror or satisfaction/enjoyment (depending on what end of the emotional spectrum to operate on). And the emotional response is so very important in DX. It'll contribute to the course your choices take.

But then, what is the right amount? We're all subjected to the way different movies and games present the effects of a gun shot wound to different levels, but what is REALLY REALISTIC?

How many of us have actually seen the effects of the kind of violence we will most likely be dealing and dealting in Deus Ex 3?

Why am I asking so many questions?!?!?! :nut:

It's either embellished or understated by the media or entertainment industry.


Hmm that reminds me... worst thing I saw was on a documentary about people trying to illegally enter the US from Mexico;
squashed human being on train track (looked like road kill) -nuff said.

GmanPro
14th Jan 2009, 17:54
Like I said in another post, I want models to explode like they used to. I don't know why, but that just makes the game feel so much better... lol. Fallout 1 and 2 has the best animations for extreme, satisfying, and at times somewhat humorous violence.

teknikal-vision
14th Jan 2009, 18:04
Like I said in another post, I want models to explode like they used to. I don't know why, but that just makes the game feel so much better... lol. Fallout 1 and 2 has the best animations for extreme, satisfying, and at times somewhat humorous violence.

I do recall that SiN and Wages of SiN has some of the most enjoyable head-popping and skull splodin' moments in my experience of FPSs :D Gotta love that sniper rifle. And Blade's pistol was badass. And then you get double pistols... and I'm sold!

I miss the light-hearted FPS...

Oh and who can forget shooting a barrel in Doom and reducing enemies to a meaty pile of gibs... Oh that audio file along side it was PERFECT!

KaiTenSatsuma
14th Jan 2009, 19:10
Maybe you're right, but not everyone can afford to buy a brand new gaming PC every year or so, and the last time I got a custom made box the damn thing was sent to me with a faulty hard-drive and they refused to replace it.

I could install windows blindfolded and one hand tied behind my back from that time...as long as someone read to me the OS code.

iWait
15th Jan 2009, 02:16
How many of us have actually seen the effects of the kind of violence we will most likely be dealing and dealting in Deus Ex 3?


Well.... The Internet, my friend!
PETA spam is easy to stumble upon and quite enough gore for the average person. There are also quite a few vids/pics that are easy to come upon while you're journeying through the Web of Inter.


Hmm that reminds me... worst thing I saw was on a documentary about people trying to illegally enter the US from Mexico;
squashed human being on train track (looked like road kill) -nuff said.
That's cause it is roadkill, cept with a train instead of a car (more limb-severedness opposed to limb crushedness).

On a totally unrelated note did you know that PETA is trying to rename fish sea-kittens? WTF. I hate PETA.

teknikal-vision
15th Jan 2009, 08:24
Well.... The Internet, my friend!

What I should have asked was: has anyone here actually seen someone get shot or killed in violence in real life? Or been shot themselves?

I know it may not be something people would generally want to remember or talk about, but given the topic of this thread, it might make interesting discussion if anyone is willing to share; since Deus Ex is a game that is supposed to be extremely immersive, thought provoking, emotionally stirring and all that other stuff that goes hand in hand with morality.

In Melbourne and Australia in general, it's a HUGE BIG DEAL if even just 1 or two people get shot or killed by guns. Not something you experience everyday here at all.

We're very lucky I guess. A few cops got killed over ten years ago in Melbourne in a shooting, and it was such a big deal they started a whole reflection day over it -Blue Ribbon Day.

Jerion
15th Jan 2009, 10:10
Well, considering that the 360 uses technology that is what, 5 years old now? I'd say that consoles are only slowing the PC down. At least as far as graphics are concerned.

The 360, certainly. The PS3 is roughly on par with last year's mid/hi-level gaming PCs. Oops, I meant 07's gaming PCs. I need to get used to this "'09" thing...

singularity
15th Jan 2009, 11:00
On the subject of violence and gore and realism, I'm currently serving in the United States Army, and while I've never physically seen a person get shot before my eyes, or lost a friend in a hail of gang-related gun-fire (the stats are in -- you are more likely to die from a fatal gunshot wound in Detroit than you are in Iraq) I've seen more than enough of the after effects. The funny thing about "real" gore and "real" gunshot wounds is that they seem pretty unrealistic. You can be looking at a guy who got shot in the head only 2 minutes ago and wonder where all the blood is, and see some poor guy who got shrappenel in his side and wonder how all that blood could physically fit inside his body. Every wound is different -- sometimes a 7.62 will litterally hollow out a man's skull (little hole in the front, big hole in the back and empy in the middle), and sometimes that same round will bounce off a man's helmet leaving nothing but a scratch.

As for the game, I wouldn't want anything too over the top, but real-time wounds on the character models would be nice. Call of Duty:WaW had some decent gunshot wound effects (where the round looked as if it punched a hole and blood soaked the body's uniform), but my all-time favorite wound-texture/ gore mechanics would have to be in Chronicles of Rid****: EFBB. Gunshot wounds made satisfying holes in your enemy's armor that would seep blood, punching someone's face would result in cuts and bruises durring melee combat, edged weapons like knives and screwdrivers caused a realistic blood-spray, and blood on the walls would run down-wards, and pool under enemies -- all while not being too over the top. The minimalistic approach to the blood gave it a more graphic edge that actually made it feel as if the person you were fighting felt pain. It's one thing to rip out someone's spine and blow up their body, pints upon pints of ruby-red blood spraying everywhere in Mortal Kombat -- it's something else intirely to swipe at someone's face with a screwdriver and have a thin line of blood spray across the wall next to him.

I'm all for expressions of pain and agony. Make me care about these people -- make me feel bad for killing them. In GTAIV, when I accidently shoot a poor pedestrian and watch as they limp away, seemingly scrambling for their lives while trailing blood and screaming, it makes me feel bad that I missed. It's impossible to make every NPC in the game likeable, relatable and full of personality, so instead, in the potential 4 seconds that I get to interact with any one guard -- do your best to make sure that that guard illicits some form of emotion out of me -- I don't care if it's pitty, sorrow, anger, regret, whatever -- I'm tired of plugging the same robotic idiots or sneaking past the same set of morrons in every video game, simply because "they tell you to". Make me shoot him because I hate him. Make me sneak past him because I legitimatly want to save his life.

EDIT -- aparently, the forum censors aren't a fan of Vin Diesel's (nearly) iconic character. :)

rokstrombo
15th Jan 2009, 12:11
I strongly disagree with including gore with the goal of discouraging killing in a video game. Fear of unpleasant auditory or visual feedback is irrelevant to the choice of whether or not to kill something. If players do not like the realistic depiction of violence in response to their in-game actions, they will simply choose not to play.

That said, I personally would like to see a realistic depiction of violence in DX3. I think it is fallacious that censors consider simulated violence to be acceptable if certain graphical elements are omitted. Whether or not human physiology is depicted accurately should be the least significant concern to censors, IMHO.

To put it another way, I don't continually hold back the urge to blast people because the sight of blood is unpleasant :p

NK007
15th Jan 2009, 12:24
Im not a very sympathetic person myself when it comes to shooting in games. Because more often than not Iv encountered enemies that prefer to still keep pulling the trigger whether they're in pain or not. I feel no remorse to dispatch these fellows with extreme prejudice. :p

The guys I'm talking about stopped shooting. They've dropped to the floor on their backs or bellies, weapons to their sides (or not if civilian), and they're wrigling in pain, trying to crawl away, or grabbing their intestines. That's completely different than someone limbering away while shooting at you.

Spyhopping
15th Jan 2009, 12:48
Moving away from the blood, guts, writhing and crawling... I play most games being mindful of the story and the development of characters as much as possible. It obviously increases immersion and the feeling of escapism. And it's more fun!

So, when I'm focusing on the story like this (and hopefully DX3 will be all about storyline) I prefer playing non-lethal.
Regardless of how graphic it is- if I go around blowing peoples heads off all of the time I'm going to start thinking that Jensen is an immoral, dislikable git

spm1138
15th Jan 2009, 13:36
Hah. Maybe they should make the non-lethal players feel guilty too with black eyes and broken fingers and noses.

"My node, my node, he bwoke my node!"
"Geez dude. You've got your sisters wedding to go to as well. You're going to look like hell."
" :( "

GmanPro
15th Jan 2009, 19:23
The 360, certainly. The PS3 is roughly on par with last year's mid/hi-level gaming PCs. Oops, I meant 07's gaming PCs. I need to get used to this "'09" thing...

Which is like ... a thousand years in gaming years.

KaiTenSatsuma
15th Jan 2009, 20:29
Which is like ... a thousand years in gaming years.

Which brings me back to square two: Not everyone can afford to do complete overhauls, with the average PC game you have a certain level of customization, so whats wrong with paying a given price in graphical realism to not have to keep paying to upgrade your computer?

Its just...kinda...weird to lock out a whole section of interested gamers when consoles are rapidly gaining popularity for online and offline games and affordability.

Unstoppable
15th Jan 2009, 20:39
Well I don't think we need extreme gore just realistic reactions. Ragdoll physics that aren't buggy like in Thief 3 and Deus Ex 2. Also bullet wounds are fine.

Jerion
15th Jan 2009, 21:07
Which brings me back to square two: Not everyone can afford to do complete overhauls, with the average PC game you have a certain level of customization, so whats wrong with paying a given price in graphical realism to not have to keep paying to upgrade your computer?

Its just...kinda...weird to lock out a whole section of interested gamers when consoles are rapidly gaining popularity for online and offline games and affordability.

Most games have to dumb down the graphics to deal with the 360's hardware. High-end gaming PCs are capable of significantly superior graphics to those of any current console. However, most developers can't make games too pretty on PC or else the 360 people start whining about how it doesn't look as good on their console (the PS3 usually marks either a happy medium or the top level of the game's graphics).

I'm starting to rabble on here so I'm ending this post. Need to collect my thoughts...

iWait
16th Jan 2009, 01:24
has anyone here actually seen someone get shot or killed in violence in real life? Or been shot themselves?

Well then, I was stabbed once, slashed with a asian-y sword twice, and saw 2 people get killed, one from a bus (actually not too sure if this one was intentional, he got pushed though), the other from a knife (7-11 robbery).

Malah
16th Jan 2009, 02:29
What I should have asked was: has anyone here actually seen someone get shot or killed in violence in real life? Or been shot themselves?

I've seen a biker die. Or not come back to life. Whichever the case may have been. No blood or guts.
The guy hit a huge truck... On a highway... Doubt he survived. :rolleyes:

+ the stuff you see on the internets... I don't even blink at skinned women or beheadings any more.

@KaiTenSatsuma
The zomg 4k gaming PC !!?? is a myth created by console fanbois who can't make their mum buy them an Alienware or don't know how to build one themselves. There are so many guides out there that anyone will be able to put a box together if they want to.

Changing just one piece every now and then will keep it up to date. Provided you started with non-prehistoric parts.

Big Orange
16th Jan 2009, 03:06
Most games have to dumb down the graphics to deal with the 360's hardware. High-end gaming PCs are capable of significantly superior graphics to those of any current console. However, most developers can't make games too pretty on PC or else the 360 people start whining about how it doesn't look as good on their console (the PS3 usually marks either a happy medium or the top level of the game's graphics).


Or they make visuals on the PC version of the game so ultra-realistic and cutting edge only the most patient PC users with the most money and technical skills could get it to play it on their machine, so they can shift only so many units. :rasp:

Malah
16th Jan 2009, 03:30
Or they make visuals on the PC version of the game so ultra-realistic and cutting edge only the most patient PC users with the most money and technical skills could get it to play it on their machine, so they can shift only so many units. :rasp:

GTA4, while sucking oh so bad, did manage this bit well in concept. The game checked your conf and limited the settings.

If you turn everything up and then complain you can't runt the damn thing... LOW/MED/MAX are there for a reason... Or sliders. I love those. :p

I'll repeat myself just in case

The zomg 4k gaming PC !!?? is a myth created by console fanbois who can't make their mum buy them an Alienware or don't know how to build one themselves. There are so many guides out there that anyone will be able to put a box together if they want to.

AaronJ
16th Jan 2009, 03:36
As long as it's not rated T. That's the last nail in the mainstream coffin.

GmanPro
16th Jan 2009, 04:10
You don't have to continuously upgrade your pc if you don't want to. But you have the freedom to do so, and it is not costly at all, if you know what you are doing and/or are getting good advice from somebody.

The notion that you 'need' to constantly make upgrades to your pc is just wrong.

Jerion
16th Jan 2009, 04:18
^^ Exactly. If you want to upgrade, it's not too costly. But you don't need to upgrade as soon as the next best thing comes out.

ilweran
16th Jan 2009, 12:44
I only upgrade the PC when there's a game I want that needs higher specs - from persuading my parents to upgrade to SVGA for Zool, through to a new PC and various upgrades for Half-Life, Deus Ex & System Shock 2. A few years back a friend to built us a new PC for Half-Life 2, and that's had a few minor upgrades.

I'm planning on another new PC for DX3 :)

Malah
16th Jan 2009, 12:49
@GMan & Kieranator
I guess it depends on how you like to play games. If you don't mind sacrificing quality as time goes by, a decent PC will indeed last a long time.


Anyway... Gore? :p

I remembered the last Soldier of Fortune. That game shamed it's predecessors. Even a .22 caliber pea gun severed limbs. All because the devs were squeamish and didn't want to relay the actual thing. If even the basics are too hard (bomb=guts, rifle=blood), don't bother.

Has there been official talk about what we can expect from the game in this regard? :confused: There are five pages, but I don't think anyone has mentioned "facts".

Jerion
16th Jan 2009, 21:26
René said, "It will definitely be there, but not excessively", or something like that.

Spyhopping
16th Jan 2009, 21:46
I'm looking forward to some word on non-lethal game play. I think IW got it right with the boltcaster as an answer to the mini crossbow :cool:

Jerion
16th Jan 2009, 21:59
Chloroform is non-lethal. :whistle:

iWait
17th Jan 2009, 01:01
Chloroform is non-lethal. :whistle:

Not always...

Jerion
17th Jan 2009, 01:22
True. In any case I want an earlier iteration of the stun prod to return. zapping people out was always fun!

SageSavage
17th Jan 2009, 01:25
Right, I'd be seriously disappointed if there is no stun prod.

Necros
18th Jan 2009, 10:33
True. In any case I want an earlier iteration of the stun prod to return. zapping people out was always fun!
Yeah, though I prefered the baton, I want to see the stun prod too.

binlargin
18th Jan 2009, 22:31
I want semi-realistic gore because this is a role playing game and realism gives a better role playing experience.

The emotional aspect is key, a role playing game should let the player's character explore many aspects of the human condition; joy, pride, laughter, friendship, lust, love, fear, pain, guilt, sorrow, anger, paranoia.

A dark dystopian nightmare would not be complete without offence and disgust, and a bit of gore will certainly help in that department. Bring on the dead babies.

hem dazon 90
19th Jan 2009, 06:25
I was just plaing the most recent literation of the call of duty series, world at war (great game by the way) and i think it had the perfect balance of gore. but thats just m opinion:thumbsup:

kman13
19th Jan 2009, 11:06
I agree, but it should be possible to clean up the mess! It's fairly easy to clean tyles or metal, even in case of blood. It's very annoying to have a realistic system like this screwed up because you can't do the very simple cleaning you can do IRL. Of course, cleaning doesn't help for forensic guys, but they're not present anyway.

newest inventory item: bleach and paper towels

APostLife
19th Jan 2009, 15:27
Just enough gore/blood just to make the game more dramatic and violence. Some cut scenes would need this amount. But not too over excessive blood and gore. E.g. head blowing off, arms/legs shot off.

APostLife
19th Jan 2009, 15:29
In New Zealand, games that are violent and have gore/blood are classified as R16 - Restricted for 16 years and over. What classification do they have over in USA for games?

ilweran
19th Jan 2009, 15:33
newest inventory item: bleach and paper towels

I think I'd stick with the electric prod/ baton rather than spend half the game cleaning, it's bad enough having to clean floors in real life. Maybe DX3 needs to be available on the Wii and it could have some kind of novelty mop attachment :D

Couldn't you clean up with a convenient mop in Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy after killing the guy in the cafe toilet?

Necros
19th Jan 2009, 16:29
I was just plaing the most recent literation of the call of duty series, world at war (great game by the way) and i think it had the perfect balance of gore. but thats just m opinion:thumbsup:
I think that game was mediocre at best, with cheap use of gore, they didn't have the balls to go a bit further, instead tried to balance between being very gory and subtle but they failed. That's mine. :)

Popp
20th Jan 2009, 18:28
I've actually never paid any attention to the blood/gore levels in both DE games. So quite frankly, I don't give a ****. Blood doesn't make a crappy game better. And lack of doesn't make a good game worse

SageSavage
20th Jan 2009, 19:02
I agree but [realistic] blood can make a good game even better. All the details matter.

Tstorm
20th Jan 2009, 22:13
Of course yes, in deus ex JC Denton sliced dead people with a knife untiill they exploded, he sent lams, gep rockets and plasma toward their way. In this game if you get hit by a rocket and all that happens is your helmet bruises (if you were wearing one) then it would seem like the rockets were filled with cake and the bullets made of cotton balls. I dont need flying limbs every second. All i ask for is moderata blood/gore and signs of combat. Cmon, I play Battlefield 2142 and I get very upset when my 30 pounds of rdx demo packs make my enemies fly instead of turning them into mush. Since you guys probably wont make mush, then I ask for semi-mush. :mad2:

Marijak
21st Jan 2009, 00:17
Personally i prefer 100% Gore to keep the game realistic.
SoF2 had a great gore level, maybe a bet messy and unrealistic.
You know a grenade doesn't have to completely turn a body to minced meat and blood spatter. I would like REALISTIC fire damage, the grade of dismemberment should vary... Instead of chunks of meat there should be recognizeable body parts. Blood is cool.. A standard gore level should be no dismemberment (i'm not sure about this word, but i do mean limbs off etc.) and blood spatter. Dismemberment and bloodPOOL should be optional.

I really liked the fact that in DX1 Paul Denton reacted on the amount of force you used on the enemy, he sure loved the NSF. Being able to get a GEP gun in the first 45 seconds of the game however, should not be repeated! There were plenty of grenades on liberty island.

Fire damage from a flamethrower should be looking different from plasma burns etc. have some variation please ^^ Security bots i DX1 had fried electronics sizzling and smoking after EMP exposure, i would like to see some sizzling pain from the biomechs (augmented humans). they do have electronics to control the mechanics eh? An foot/leg mechanical augmented person should get permanently or temporary disabled from the waist down or something. (handicapped) hehe..

getting a liiiittle of topic here, so iæm gonna end it
Looking forward to a great game :)

iWait
21st Jan 2009, 00:26
I've actually never paid any attention to the blood/gore levels in both DE games. So quite frankly, I don't give a . Blood doesn't make a crappy game better. And lack of doesn't make a good game worse

You actually made me think about something other than something for a second.

It isn't necessarily gore that I am really hoping on seeing, it's the damage effects. For instance if I shoot someone's leg point-blank with a shotgun I want it to blow off. I don't really care how much blood there is, but I definitely don't want them to be able to run after that.

Jerion
21st Jan 2009, 00:40
Of course yes, in deus ex JC Denton sliced dead people with a knife untiill they exploded, he sent lams, gep rockets and plasma toward their way. In this game if you get hit by a rocket and all that happens is your helmet bruises (if you were wearing one) then it would seem like the rockets were filled with cake and the bullets made of cotton balls. I dont need flying limbs every second. All i ask for is moderata blood/gore and signs of combat. Cmon, I play Battlefield 2142 and I get very upset when my 30 pounds of rdx demo packs make my enemies fly instead of turning them into mush. Since you guys probably wont make mush, then I ask for semi-mush. :mad2:

Try CoD: W@W. It's a bit more satisfying in that regard. ;)

Necros
21st Jan 2009, 16:34
Blood doesn't make a crappy game better. And lack of doesn't make a good game worse
I disagree, it can make a game better.

Try CoD: W@W. It's a bit more satisfying in that regard. ;)
Forget that crap, Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway is much better. :p It has great gore-effects, people torn in half, brains exploding and stuff like that. :cool: :D I don't mind if DX3 won't have this but I want to see blood and at least some damage on the enemies' bodies.