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View Full Version : PREQUEL!!! SEQUEL!!!! etc.



imported_van_HellSing
23rd Aug 2008, 10:07
Sequel? Prequel? in between DX and IW? Or maybe even a spinoff/alternate universe? Which do you prefer?

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/5185/prequelsequelaf0.jpg

Let the battle begin!

1. I don't think there was a poll on this before, if there was, lock away, mods! :)

2. Credits for Stephane photo go to jordan_a of course

Clucky
23rd Aug 2008, 10:10
Midquel please.

Actually where's the "I don't care, as long as it quenches my need for a decent PC game." :p

Larington
23rd Aug 2008, 10:24
I can see a prequel working, but my heart isn't in it as much as a midquel so thats where my vote shall go.

Necros
23rd Aug 2008, 10:33
I can't decide! :nut: Either between DX and DX:IW or a sequel to IW, both would be really cool. :scratch: A prequel could work too though and it would be interesting but I'd like to know more about what happened after JC started the *****storm and what happened after the big reunion in IW. :cool:

imported_van_HellSing
23rd Aug 2008, 10:33
Actually where's the "I don't care, as long as it quenches my need for a decent PC game." :p

Sitting on the fence not only gets you nowhere, it also wrecks your balls ;)

Clucky
23rd Aug 2008, 10:38
Sitting on the fence not only gets you nowhere, it also wrecks your balls ;)

However, it does keep me happy; and they were wrecked long ago my friend. :p

gamer0004
23rd Aug 2008, 10:42
Definitely prequel... The look of DX:IW was one of the most annoying things of that game. It apperantly is too difficult to invent a worldview of 70 years into the future that is actually believable, or at least they fail to do some proper research (anyone right in his/her mind knows there is no way that one day everyone will be a member of only four different factions (or is no member of anything at all)).
I mean, why do devs tend to think that in around 50/100 years (good exception being DX) every weapon will have little lights on them? How stupid is that?
Or that not only the whole world will be restored after all communications go down within 20 year but actually in that period have destroyed almost every single building, built an actual city on top of another one and apparently bombed Trier to rebuild the city as it was 300 years before...
If communications go down that means that the whole government suddenly doesn't exist anymore. People can't do their job at work because they can't call other people or e-mail them. Oil or whatever fuel they use by that time won't be delivered anymore because they don't hear from the buyers anymore, and GPS (it's succesor probably) won't work, and energy will stop to be produced because they can't get fuel. The world won't recover in 20 years AND be way more advanced AND be extremely globalised. Of course, a Collapse would offer some intresting possibilities. No more bureaucracy, so companies can do what they want, and new forms of government will arise.

DX:IW could've been so good :(

Red
23rd Aug 2008, 10:52
I voted in between, but to be honest, I'd be happy with a sequel to IW too.

jordan_a
23rd Aug 2008, 11:33
In between DX and IW.

farmerbobconspiracist
23rd Aug 2008, 11:54
I can tell you right now that if DX3 somehow turned out to be some alternative universe crap, it would go straight from my DVD drive into a trash compacter.

I don't mind either way if it's a prequel or sequel. Sequel is more preferred, but either is fine. Alternative universe? Heck no.

imported_van_HellSing
23rd Aug 2008, 12:19
Hehe, I really don't understand people's fascination with the Dentons and the rest of the DX mythos. I consider the plot to be one of the weaker points of DX; all simplistic, naive conspiracy stuff and tropes borrowed from other cyberpunk media.

Merging with Helios? GitS. Secretly controlled plague? Johnny Mnemonic. And so on.

What really compelled me about DX was the gameplay.

Yes, I'd prefer DX3 to preserve the continuity, but an alternate universe wouldn't bother me at all. :)

jordan_a
23rd Aug 2008, 12:49
How can you enjoy a game if you dislike the story? :scratch: Gameplay means nothing by itself.

imported_van_HellSing
23rd Aug 2008, 13:05
I don't dislike it, I just don't see it as anything special ;). Thus, if they reimagined the story, I wouldn't really miss the old one.

gamer0004
23rd Aug 2008, 13:55
Sacrilege! :rasp:

Gizmostuff
23rd Aug 2008, 15:44
Who cares! Seriously, will you not play the next installment of Deus Ex even if it's what you weren't expecting?

gamer0004
23rd Aug 2008, 16:01
I will play DX3 even if it takes place in the year 2872. But I'll definatly try the demo before, and I very much doubt it if I buy the CE in that case (if there will be one).

Clucky
23rd Aug 2008, 17:14
Who cares! Seriously, will you not play the next installment of Deus Ex even if it's what you weren't expecting?

That's not really the question he was asking. He was asking which you would prefer, not which would make you want to play it least. :rolleyes:

Blade_hunter
23rd Aug 2008, 17:37
I choose in between, but if it's a DX 2 sequel, that's can be ok since they don't make the same mistakes

Absentia
23rd Aug 2008, 20:51
I don't dislike it, I just don't see it as anything special ;). Thus, if they reimagined the story, I wouldn't really miss the old one.

I know what you mean. I used to think DX had one of the most unique plots for any kind of media, yet after reading Neuromancer and doing more research into the Cyberpunk genre, it's not *THAT* unique.

However, because it's a game and not a book or a film, its unique in that its one of the only things to really immerse you in the world (Neocron was a good try, but its crap).

As for this threads actual subject: I 'm surprised at how many people want the "midquel" idea. I think a sequel would be fine, it doesnt mean it has to keep the aesthetic of IW. The beauty of multiple endings is that something totally drastic can happen that wasnt documented, as a way of combining them. The furistic Seattle enclaves could be destroyed. Civilization could be rocketed back into the past again (a la New Dark Age) or consider this: COMBINE the aesthetic: Let's say that there are other parts of the world, even other parts of the US that are still living in the povertised and dark places presented in DX1.
The reason that (well, not THE reason, but one of them) everything looked so futuristic and "Star-Trek-like" in DXIW is because you were in the WTO-controlled enclaves. What about outside there? America is huge. The world is huge. Don't be too quick to rule out a sequel just based on the style of DXIW.

blaman
23rd Aug 2008, 23:38
I personally think that a prequal would be the most interesting.

There's not enough buildup (in my opinion) for there to actually be a good story between DX1 and IW, mainly because I thought IW was terrible :rasp:

It would be really interesting seeing more of what paul went through or even what was going on before he was really important. I think seeing MJ12 testing out biomodifications on someone (instead of breeding them into that life) would be really cool. Imagine being captured by MJ12 as a ordinary person and escaping only to find that you have been altered in an irreversible way with biomodifications not even known by the rest of the world yet! :eek:

If not a prequal, then I would have to say a sequal...but at this point I don't know if they could fix what they did with IW :(

Absentia
23rd Aug 2008, 23:56
The thing i find most interesting about the idea of a prequel is whether or not people are willing to accept the fact that they won't be able to make huge choices.
Yes, there's still a fair amount of storyline that hasnt been uncovered, but there's very little room to be able to change the world and to be truly unsure of what lies ahead, seeing as we know that JC was the one who ended up truly making a difference.

In a prequel, or indeed a "midquel", you'll merely be playing a pawn in someone elses game.

In DX1, you started out as merely a pawn, but the things you found out about your employers, combined with the skills and power you had from being augmented, meant that you ended up having the fate of the world within your fingers. I couldn't have predicted that ending, and any idea I had of the way the game would turn out were diminished through the many different twists in the turn of events. This is one element that I really loved about DX. A prequel couldn't work like that. You can have some minor twists in the storyline, it might be interesting to see the backstory, there might be new characters and new places to go to, but ultimately you are very limited in that you cannot change what you know already happened. You cannot make a world-changing decision, or find yourself in a place of power.

I am not trying to force people into believing that a sequel is better (though I admire GlobalNode/AaronJ's efforts in doing just that) but you have to be aware of the SEVERE limitations caused by this idea.

farmerbobconspiracist
24th Aug 2008, 00:27
The thing i find most interesting about the idea of a prequel is whether or not people are willing to accept the fact that they won't be able to make huge choices.
Yes, there's still a fair amount of storyline that hasnt been uncovered, but there's very little room to be able to change the world and to be truly unsure of what lies ahead, seeing as we know that JC was the one who ended up truly making a difference.


Another problem with a prequel is that you can basically throw augmentations out the window. JC was the second successful nanotechnology augmented person in the world. Thus, unless the game features Paul before JC graduated... you're going to be stuck with mechanical augs.

And, like you said, don't expect jaw-dropping choices. Certainly, there will not be a "screw the world, end it all" type choice, otherwise DX1 would be entirely invalidated.

blaman
24th Aug 2008, 02:40
Yeah I did think about that, but you guys are definitely making a really good point.

I mean, I think that making a sequel would be pretty hard too, seeing that they kind of half to pick an ending for you (whether you like that ending or not.) They did worked around it in IW though, so who knows?

I think that's kind of the catch to games like deus ex. You can make awesome decisions and follow a path that you would like to, but that sorta messes up anything for a sequel...

Actually, I think that this game probably will be a sequel, because its called deus ex 3...usually prequel's are named something different

Just a thought. I hope that the game turns out really good though and I can have as much fun with it as I did with DX1 :)

Igoe
24th Aug 2008, 05:03
Well very few of us have seen ANYTHING on the games development.

And the few that have made it clear that the game was shaping up nicely.

So, while i voted for prequel, at this moment I have complete trust in EM to follow through with our expectations.

gamer0004
24th Aug 2008, 08:22
Another problem with a prequel is that you can basically throw augmentations out the window. JC was the second successful nanotechnology augmented person in the world. Thus, unless the game features Paul before JC graduated... you're going to be stuck with mechanical augs.

And, like you said, don't expect jaw-dropping choices. Certainly, there will not be a "screw the world, end it all" type choice, otherwise DX1 would be entirely invalidated.

What's wrong with mech augs? They are capable of doing the same things as nano-augs.
In a prequel we could have "jaw-dropping" choices. You can choose a different ending and thus DX will never happen in that way. What's wrong with that? Multiple universe thingy...

farmerbobconspiracist
24th Aug 2008, 09:08
What's wrong with mech augs? They are capable of doing the same things as nano-augs.


Not according to everything in DX. Nano augmentation was more advanced and reliable.


In a prequel we could have "jaw-dropping" choices. You can choose a different ending and thus DX will never happen in that way. What's wrong with that? Multiple universe thingy...

That's a lame cop-out by developers.

Continuity or no play from me. It's fine by me if DX3 is a prequel, but if it invalidates DX1, then I'm not going to even touch it.

urban_queen41
24th Aug 2008, 09:57
I'm leaning towards prequel.

From watching the trailer analysis, it seemed to focus heavily on the nature of augmentations themselves, the evolution of man, all that stuff. An idea popped into my head that didn't sound too bad- what if they made a prequel incoporating the very beginnings of augmentations, and the moral and ethical issues surrounding them? It'd give us a lot of backstory and insight into the world we knew and loved in DX. Personally, I'd prefer to have DX3 flesh out the backstory and already existing world while still innovating and having an interesting storyline than to go in a completely wild and different direction with our series. It's what I'd personally prefer over an IW sequel, anyway.


I'm also liking the idea of Paul's story, even though I know a lot of people are against it. The kinda thing that really develops character, plot and the DX world without being predictable/boring (ex. introducing suprising new plot elements and the like)- it'd tie in the series nicely, in my opinion.

gamer0004
24th Aug 2008, 11:02
Not according to everything in DX. Nano augmentation was more advanced and reliable.



That's a lame cop-out by developers.

Continuity or no play from me. It's fine by me if DX3 is a prequel, but if it invalidates DX1, then I'm not going to even touch it.

We've had a discussion like this before on the forums... No, nano-augmentation was more advanced because nano-augm. agents didn't look as scary as mechs. But mechs can be invisible too, and have environmental protection and proably targeting augs. I do think they can only have like 6 of them. But the same was true of Alex Denton.

farmerbobconspiracist
24th Aug 2008, 12:26
We've had a discussion like this before on the forums... No, nano-augmentation was more advanced because nano-augm. agents didn't look as scary as mechs. But mechs can be invisible too, and have environmental protection and proably targeting augs. I do think they can only have like 6 of them. But the same was true of Alex Denton.

The problem is that all those could've been used with in-game equipment. Thermoptic camo for invisibility, hazmat suit for environmental protection, and there's little evidence of targeting augs.

gamer0004
24th Aug 2008, 19:20
The problem is that all those could've been used with in-game equipment. Thermoptic camo for invisibility, hazmat suit for environmental protection, and there's little evidence of targeting augs.

Err... All the nano-augs could be replaced with equipment except for strength and speed aug and the first was deifnately available and I assume the second one too.

Fig89
25th Aug 2008, 18:21
I can only see a few options really working:

1) A Prequel that is set a few years (up to a decade, but no more) before DX1 where you are some kind of person that can choose to be or not to be various levels of mechanically augmented. Perhaps Anna or Gunther?

2) You are Paul Denton, with the game starting approximately 6 months to a week before DX happens, and ending possibly 6 months to a week after it.

3) You are somebody set in the immediate post collapse world.

Anything after IW seems impossible to me.

DXeXodus
26th Aug 2008, 04:47
As gamer0004 mentioned earlier, a sequel to DX2 would only mean more space aged/unrealistic levels. What would be the developers excuse for moving from Star trek style to cyberpunk again? Or even worse, how could they go from using Universal ammo back to conventional ammo? :eek:

I am all for this being a prequel that starts fairly shortly before DX1 and runs parallel to it in some way or another. Therefore my vote is for a prequel. Or a so called "midquel" at the worst.

Igoe
26th Aug 2008, 06:53
I think we should all ignore the use of previously established characters as playable.

We all know the paths of the characters in DX. By heart. If they were playable in DX3 it would mean we all ready know their destinies, and as such would take away from the excitement.

A prequel could happen, but we WONT play as JC. Or Paul. Or Anna...or....

A Sequel could happen, but due to the open nature of the ending, we again wouldn't play as Alex, or JC, or Paul, or....

You see where I'm going? Don't expect to play as a character all ready established in DX lore. Or to even interact with one for that matter....

I'm NEARLY confident we'll be put in the shoes of an entirely new character and I'm all for it. I'd like to think I shape my own future, and that I'm not just filler in an all ready predetermined plotline....

urban_queen41
26th Aug 2008, 10:16
^
A prequel could work with an existing character IF the game's plot didn't revolve around pre-established events that we already know about. The events could revolve around a character we know but have little to do with the beginning of DX1-onwards. An epilogue could be included showing something that leads up to the start of DX1 or something, to tie it all in. I'm in no way saying that it SHOULD happen, just don't rule it out as a possibility. =]

I'm liking the idea of a sequel set between DX1 and IW more and more- hopefully involving characters we know. =]

Defres
26th Aug 2008, 12:04
I only wish for a Sequel.

I am NOT fond of playing through a story I know the end of already. It gives you the feeling no matter what you do, you aren't gonna change the future, like you're trapped in a box, or a linear hallway leading only to the one specific end.. cause you know what it's gonna be anyways. Ruined.

A Sequel could definitely work.
Perhaps Helios was not so perfect after all.
Maybe universal democracy in the way it was executed by the end of DX:IW, was not the right choice, for it made everyone mindless zombies, took away their freedom of choice, which is the last thing, for example, God wanted.
Maybe someone out of the reach of Helios AI and it's technology knows/realises this and starts to make movements in order to stop it.
Maybe Helios itself goes corrupt or gets corrputed by something (and needing to be terminated) and thus the world gets launched into yet, another chaos takin a wholelot of technology with it, for someone to clear up the mess again. This time a different way.

NO for a prequel.

Demi-Shade
26th Aug 2008, 12:32
I like the idea for a midquel, seeing as theres a few things that were described to have happened during the 20-year collapse.

1. The red greasels that now inhabit some places, (although i dont think i've seen one myself..) maybe one lab in the middle of nowhere with no communication pre-collapse had managed to manipulate the greasel gene strain into a more dangerous strain? maybe that strain of greasel got loose and started to populate much of the surrounding area into a new problem.

2. maybe the player character could see the beginning of the Omar Blackmarket and the whole 'Race' of them as a whole. maybe a view of the early omar and maybe beginning interaction with their blackmarket. they could have even gotten the early nanoaugmentation project and started to develop their own biomods while the piezochem biomod project was going ahead. the non-Piezochem biomods could've been cobbled together by whatever the omar had lying around and some stashes of goodies?

3. The player character would probably augmentated, although maybe as an offshoot by an experimenting company. both tarsus and the omar were indicated to have researched biomods - the piezochem biomods and the non-piezochem biomods. maybe the player could choose which group to start with, Tarsus or the Omar? each could offer replay choices and probably provide some people to play though the game in the other group. also, the player could possibly be the one to restart world-wide communications and repair the world to what it was in Deus Ex: Iinvisible War.

4. With the development of the different ammo types to one universal type, maybe during the collapse research bases figured out how to change the energy stored in the ammo packs into things like bullets and the like for weapons. the player might be able to experience this sometime in the game. or there could even be a mixture of old and new weapons, the player starting out with some olf weapons and then eventually upgrading the the eventual universal ammo ways of the DX:IW time. i myself didn't like the idea but it has already been set in stone after being released and there not much that can be done. the universal ammo weapons could start being spreaded when the player reaches a stage when he begins to re-awaken the old communication channels. first there might be two or three, and then it would spread massively thanks to the players actions. the reinvented weapons with the new universal ammo would probably have to do more damage to foes than the old weapons and probably let the player carry more of the ammo then before to make them inclined to get them in the first place.

Overall i think a midquel would probably be best off.. although i have head stray confrimations about a prequel..

Absentia
26th Aug 2008, 12:41
I think we should all ignore the use of previously established characters as playable.

We all know the paths of the characters in DX. By heart. If they were playable in DX3 it would mean we all ready know their destinies, and as such would take away from the excitement.

A prequel could happen, but we WONT play as JC. Or Paul. Or Anna...or....

A Sequel could happen, but due to the open nature of the ending, we again wouldn't play as Alex, or JC, or Paul, or....

You see where I'm going? Don't expect to play as a character all ready established in DX lore. Or to even interact with one for that matter....

I'm NEARLY confident we'll be put in the shoes of an entirely new character and I'm all for it. I'd like to think I shape my own future, and that I'm not just filler in an all ready predetermined plotline....

Totally agree.


As gamer0004 mentioned earlier, a sequel to DX2 would only mean more space aged/unrealistic levels. What would be the developers excuse for moving from Star trek style to cyberpunk again? Or even worse, how could they go from using Universal ammo back to conventional ammo? :eek:

There are plenty of reasons why DX3 can be a sequel and set the cyberpunk mood again, but people who want a prequel just don't take the time to think of them. As for universal ammo, I don't even care if they just pretend that never happened.

As I've said before, in DXIW we never got to explore areas which were seedy crime-ridden underworlds like we did in DX1. Everywhere presented were very state-controlled, lots of police, lots of controlled establishments like the WTO enclaves and the transport system, and the huge multi-story airport and the apartment complex. Even in the nightclub, there were higher-class people roaming around, and the nightclub owner looked like a rich businessman.
There wasnt so much a cyberpunk mood to the second game because people didn't have so much to rebel against. Life was under very controlled circumstances thanks to the Illuminati.
But who's to say there aren't other areas besides them? Lets say the secret gets out about WTO and The Order being part of one organization. People are going to rebel and reject both of them, the organizations will stop being funded, the enclaves will get abandoned or torn down and the bums will end up living there.
Lets say the Templars gain more power. There'd be chaos - augmented people or those against the Templars' views would be rebelling, and Templar commandos would roam the streets trying to keep order against a revolting nation - while at the same time, government police would either have to try and deal with the Templars self-prolcaimed authority, or perhaps secretly join with them.

The cyberpunk feel and mood happens when citizens become the priority, when they are aware of the oppression from the larger corporations. This wasnt so evident in DXIW, because the Illuminati realised this fact and set up 2 opposing organizations, creating this element of "freedom" in that no organization is completely overuling one another.

The oppressed mood was there in DX1 because of the plague, and how the government seemed to take no notice as Page Industries grew wealthier and wealthier, and even UNATCO didn't take much interest in civilians. It got so bad that civilians turned to NSF, the so-called terrorists, for help. This was the division between the people and the government, in that who the government deem evil can be seen as good.

As I said, DXIW did not have this, because The Order, The WTO, and The Templars, while conflicting, were still fairly equal in power. A lot of the faults in DXIW can be explained by the storyline, except the very obvious ones like dumbed-down augs and inventory.

gamer0004
26th Aug 2008, 12:47
As I said, DXIW did not have this, because The Order, The WTO, and The Templars, while conflicting, were still fairly equal in power. A lot of the faults in DXIW can be explained by the storyline, except the very obvious ones like dumbed-down augs and inventory.

Which was one of the stupidest things of IW... How can the Templars - a branch of the Order - be as powerful as the Order and WTO combined?

Herr Trigger
26th Aug 2008, 14:30
Obviously a sequel would be the best option.

I imagine it could go something like this.
You play as JC Denton but you are actually a clone of the original JC. You meet up with Alex Jacobson and he tells you that the world is in danger from a group of rouge operatives that have gotten a hold of a new weapon: a bipedal tank capable of launching nuclear warheads from anywhere in the world, from any terrain. The gameplay would change from the original style to a tactical stealth format. Alex keeps in contact with you over the radio and you end up fighting another, evil, clone of JC.... wait...

OK, enough silliness.

iWait
26th Aug 2008, 15:22
Obviously a sequel would be the best option.

I imagine it could go something like this.
You play as JC Denton but you are actually a clone of the original JC. You meet up with Alex Jacobson and he tells you that the world is in danger from a group of rouge operatives that have gotten a hold of a new weapon: a bipedal tank capable of launching nuclear warheads from anywhere in the world, from any terrain. The gameplay would change from the original style to a tactical stealth format. Alex keeps in contact with you over the radio and you end up fighting another, evil, clone of JC.... wait...

OK, enough silliness.

They be rouge operatives. They be the operatives wearing rouge.

jcp28
26th Aug 2008, 16:40
As I am an piddling coward, I refuse to take sides, even though a few signs in the trailer say prequel

A sequel would make more sense. However, I personally don't care, as long as I don't play Paul in the prequel, assuming it exists.

I never thought of a "midquel" before, but that could probably work. But please only have universal ammo come in at the very end. I ran out so many frickin' times because of that utterly idiotic and completely inane feature. i don't think that's happening though.

Herr Trigger
26th Aug 2008, 16:45
They be rouge operatives. They be the operatives wearing rouge.

Rouge is the new black.

pauldenton
26th Aug 2008, 23:32
I think it will be a prequel that will focus on daddy Denton.

It could work, though i would have much prefered a sequal to the first game and forgot IW ever happend.

ewanlaing
26th Aug 2008, 23:48
It surprises me that people often assum a sequel to IW won't work, because Helios controls everything. That was just ONE of four endings possible, and surely the obvious choice for continuation would be to help the illuminati, and therefore continue with a world under governmental control.

And there's nothing to say the developers won't do as ION STORM did with the ending of Deus ex, and come up with an entirely different solution.

I'd like to see a sequel, and midquel would be very interesting, but a prequel I think would lack any value, because (as someone already mentioned) the story would have a pre-determined ending, which shatters the point of the entire franchise.

Tsumaru
27th Aug 2008, 00:58
Which was one of the stupidest things of IW... How can the Templars - a branch of the Order - be as powerful as the Order and WTO combined?
The Templars aren't a branch of the Order. They core group was a part of the Order who branched off, yes, but they don't associate themselves with the Order at all anymore. And then they did INDEPENDENT global recruiting. That's how they got as powerful. Remember that nobody at the start realised that the leader of the Templars was one of the leaders of the Order. To everyone, they are - and always were - completely separate groups. Also, isn't it said that the new Knights Templar got access to the original Templar's gold reserves? So it makes perfect sense for them to be able to be as powerful.

Spiffmeister
27th Aug 2008, 06:26
A prequel or sequal would be the best IMO. IW just gave off the feeling that not a lot happened between DX1 and it, so before or after DX1/2 would be good :) .

Herr Trigger
27th Aug 2008, 13:38
My honest opinion would be a sequel to DX1 and forget all about IW.

I had the highest expectations for that game. I followed the news, preordered it, even got the T-shirt, and I was severely disappointed. I played all the way through once and then sold it. Some people in this forum, however, have high praise for it, so I'll probably buy it off steam and give it another shot.

gamer0004
27th Aug 2008, 14:12
The Templars aren't a branch of the Order. They core group was a part of the Order who branched off, yes, but they don't associate themselves with the Order at all anymore. And then they did INDEPENDENT global recruiting. That's how they got as powerful. Remember that nobody at the start realised that the leader of the Templars was one of the leaders of the Order. To everyone, they are - and always were - completely separate groups. Also, isn't it said that the new Knights Templar got access to the original Templar's gold reserves? So it makes perfect sense for them to be able to be as powerful.

Since Everett managed to get it, no, they didn't have their gold reserves.
And how old do you think the Order is? And if they are not a branch of the Order anymore, why are they wearing Order clothes? Inconsistencies! Either the story is complete BS or it's very lame and they don't want to reveal to the player what everybody would know ("they haven't got a warm and fuzzy image to uphold"...).

Tsumaru
27th Aug 2008, 14:42
I might have been wrong about the gold, I thought I remembered that from somewhere, but... Order clothes? What on earth are you talking about!?!

http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusexinvisiblewar/cairo2/DX2Main-2004-04-11-18-26-22.jpg
http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusexinvisiblewar/cairo3/DX2Main-2004-04-12-15-32-35.jpg
http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusexinvisiblewar/trier2/DX2Main-2004-04-18-20-20-14.jpg
http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusexinvisiblewar/trier1/DX2Main-2004-04-18-14-03-22.jpg
http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusexinvisiblewar/trier1/DX2Main-2004-04-18-15-33-18.jpg

There are fairly clear and distinctive differences in clothing if you ask me.

As for how old the Order is, I'd hazard a guess of 15-20 years. Although I'm not sure the relevance of that question.

gamer0004
27th Aug 2008, 16:10
This always sorts out the not-fans :rasp:
Just joking.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=gBHNyK9VHc8
http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusexinvisiblewar/tarsus/tarsus.htm
Just scroll down.
They only reveal that it wasn't in fact the Order when the player finds out story-wise, but everybody would've known who they are. And if they wouldn't it's pretty too because how could you not notice a whole army of heavily armed Templars?

Voltaire
27th Aug 2008, 17:46
As gamer0004 mentioned earlier, a sequel to DX2 would only mean more space aged/unrealistic levels. What would be the developers excuse for moving from Star trek style to cyberpunk again? Or even worse, how could they go from using Universal ammo back to conventional ammo? :eek:...

That one's easy. They should show a clip at the beginning of everyone looking around at space age decor and going... "It's a bit much isn't it?". Or a clip of the nanobots that make up universal ammo going crazy and hijacking a jumbo jet. I'm pretty sure that would spell the end for that particular innovation. ;)

Seriously though, there are lots of pseudo-Icke conspiracy theorists (truthism.com and other such twaddlespeak) who believe that the governments of the world, or maybe reptilian forces, are restricting our tecnologies. A leap backwards in gadgets and gizmos wouldn't be impossible to explain.

gamer0004
27th Aug 2008, 18:13
Well, why don't stick to the real explanation: uni ammo proved to be not much more than a gimmick and there were too many downsides to it.

K^2
27th Aug 2008, 18:40
Just say it didn't survive the format war.

foxberg
27th Aug 2008, 19:47
Seriously though, there are lots of pseudo-Icke conspiracy theorists (truthism.com and other such twaddlespeak)...

I actually looked up truthism.com Although it seems to be run by some mentally disturbed maniac it does make few interesting points. Also it has some valid references albeit with twisted explanations. If you can read through piles of this marasmus there're some interesting bits of information to absorb.

Oh yeah, and on the topic: Sequel. I don't want to meet JC's "grand parents". Next thing you know someone suggests DX3 is to be set in 18th Century and all you have for a weapon would be a knife, a sling and an epee.

O-Lee
14th Sep 2008, 07:23
Not sure if someone came up with this idea already. i didn't read everything in this thread. but why not combine a prequel with a sequel?

Some ppl seem to like the idea of a prequel but would also like to see what happens after Deus Ex 2. while reading some old threads about sequels/prequesl and Paul Denton I thought they could make something like the "Paul Denton Story" (only a random title to explain my idea :D ) A DX game in which you play Paul Denton from before DX1 untill after DX2.

The problem is that this would have to be a very long game, otherwise it might not be enough DX3 for some ppl. I think the biggest parts in game could b the time before DX1 and the time after DX3 with some time gap (correct word?). In between there could b some smaller missions concerning DX 2, Liberty Island and JC Denton.

First Part could b Paul Denton's Story from his time in the academy (maybe even his "parents" could have a cameo appearance). And the end of this part would b the meeting with JC in Hong Kong.

Possible title: "The rise and fall of Paul Denton
1. Similar to JC's Story, Paul is a loyal Agent of UNATCO
2. Trip to Hong Kong, stealing the sword, contact to tracer tong
3. Paul sarts somehow working for the terrorists
4. Problems in the coalition (Gunther!), maybe there could b some situations in which Paul might be caught. (restart from a certain point)
5. Paul's story at the time of DX 1. Escape to Hong Kong (End of First Part)

In this part would b more "oldschool" equipment, maybe some old versions of Pauls augmentation, more mechs (maybe even the girl who works in the Underworld Tavern). (I always wanted to know what kind of augs Paul uses), later in this part some new technology could b introduced and the doc at the UNATCO HQ could upgrade Paul's system. Since Paul has access to JC's Infolink there could b some possibility to see/watch some of JC's action and get news about his missions.


Second Part (the short part)
In this part Paul would have to find JC and do whatever they do in DX2 (don't remember much of this lol) It could start back in the US after a video in which we see what Paul did after he recovered (maybe more upgrades of his system by tracer tong). (first time gap) I don't remember what happens to Paul in DX2 so a possible way for him to survive could b a fight with Alex Denton at the end of DX2 in which he gets shot but survives. Last part could b an escape from the island with a boat. (second time gap)

third part
now this would b the big part of the game. Paul would have to be old in this one (not sure how many years passed between DX 1 and DX2 and we dont know how many will pass untill DX3) a possible explanation could b that augmented ppl live longer than normal ppl. not sure about this one. maybe Paul could b the old special agent who has to get back to business for one last mission. or there could a new "Hero" be introduced and Paul could have a "guest appearance" as an old veteran. (or something like this)

Blade_hunter
14th Sep 2008, 09:02
In a sequel/midquel they can add the mech mods again if we consider in the story someone try to revive some mech mods like ghermann or anavarre or even making theur own by using volunteers or by forcing people and use homeless people
because some persons needs more agents that acts like killing machines than guy's like Pdenton or even JC if we consider they are more adept of no killing.

Bloodwolf806
14th Sep 2008, 13:29
In between DX and IW would be fantastic, but as long as it's DX I'll take it.

gamer0004
14th Sep 2008, 14:53
In between DX and IW would be fantastic, but as long as it's DX I'll take it.

You are so mistaken... :rasp:

Absentia
14th Sep 2008, 20:20
How can you enjoy a game if you dislike the story? :scratch: Gameplay means nothing by itself.

i know this is old quotage, but, what???


Pac-Man.

DXeXodus
15th Sep 2008, 03:59
Deus Ex is a first person/RPG hybrid. Not a top down pill-eating arcade game. There is a difference. The story is equally as important as the gameplay.

ewanlaing
15th Sep 2008, 18:16
That's why I think a prequel won't work, because we already know the story. If anything, it'll be even more of a compromise to newcomers on the consoles, as it'll just be a whole load of recapping.

I think we need a new antagonist, new problems to face, new characters and to have the story enforced by the actions of previous characters within the series.


As for universal ammo, just retcon it. I can live with that.

El_Bel
15th Sep 2008, 18:42
Well since we know everything.. Can you tell me who is Walton Simon? How did he get that much power? Have you seen Leon Woods fight for US constitution before UNATCO said he was a terrorist?

Lo Bruto
16th Sep 2008, 06:04
That's why I think a prequel won't work, because we already know the story.

What you're talking about? We know what happened in 4 days in an entire timeline. (for DX1)


Well since we know everything.. Can you tell me who is Walton Simons? How did he get that much power? Have you seen Leon Woods fight for US constitution before UNATCO said he was a terrorist?

Thank you. I couldn't find better examples.
That's exaclty what I'm talking about.
There is SO much behind "JC's first mission ---> JC Blows Area 51."

It's a prequel.
No more overly sci-fi factions with neon clothes. No more Omar.
A much closer-to-reality world. Yes NSF.

And I can't wait to remove my right arm and replace it with a mech-augmented one so my accuracy and melee combat skill increase. :rolleyes:

DXeXodus
16th Sep 2008, 07:48
No more Omar.

MissDenton is not going to be impressed. :D
[EDIT] Or Romeo, come to think of it.....



And I can't wait to remove my right arm and replace it with a mech-augmented one so my accuracy and melee combat skill increase. :rolleyes:

That is a personal dream of mine for DX3. Mech augs. Fits in with my preference of the game being a prequel too.

ewanlaing
16th Sep 2008, 15:49
Well since we know everything.. Can you tell me who is Walton Simon? How did he get that much power? Have you seen Leon Woods fight for US constitution before UNATCO said he was a terrorist?

I honestly think that would be a very boring storyline. I don't want to know how these things happened. They probably happened in a very dull way, and if not I'd probably be even less satisfied. The events in Deus Ex were interesting because they were the culmination of everything that happened before it.

I don't want Deus Ex 3 turning into an everlasting reference to the previous two games. I hate games and films that do that. I want a new story.






It's a prequel.
No more overly sci-fi factions with neon clothes. No more Omar.
A much closer-to-reality world. Yes NSF.

And I can't wait to remove my right arm and replace it with a mech-augmented one so my accuracy and melee combat skill increase. :rolleyes:

Once again, I refer to Lower Seattle, Old Cairo, Trier. They really were not that futeristic.

Also, Deus Ex 1, for all it's gritty realism, still had it's fair share of giant robots, underwater secret laboratories and laser beams and plasma rifles.

But I do understand the points you're making, and there were a couple of areas where IW (and Deus Ex 1, I think) leaned to far into the futuristic.

And finally, I liked the Omar!:D

imported_van_HellSing
16th Sep 2008, 18:03
As for the Omar, a prequel could very well show the beginnings of the project, possibly with the player character playing a crucial role even.

The way I see how the endings for a prequel could work, is that similarily to the DX1->IW situation, the multiple endings are all somewhat true, and lead up to DX and possibly some things from IW.

The difference would be they are not true all at once, but rather the other endings would be "performed" by different people. This would work since we'd never hear about the DX3 protagonist in DX1 or DX2, his role crucial to the Deus Ex world, but his name unknown. This would actually work nicely with the series' covert themes.

For example, one ending would have the player become the first Omar. Another, the player would perform a key role in MJ12's split from the Illuminati. And so on.

LatwPIAT
16th Sep 2008, 21:12
Decleare DX:IW non-canon and release a propper sequel, keeping the Omar?

Please?

Lo Bruto
17th Sep 2008, 02:45
I don't want Deus Ex 3 turning into an everlasting reference to the previous two games. I hate games and films that do that. I want a new story.

Why do you want a new story if you don't know half of the previous one? I'm telling you... You may know JC's story, not DX's. Are you satisfied with that? I'm not.



MissDenton is not going to be impressed. :D


I'm prepared for a ten-thousand-words topic from MissDenton talking about how the Omar are cool and important for the DX universe and for the veggies all around the world. :rasp:

Romeo
17th Sep 2008, 05:29
Deus Ex and Invisible War were actually just dreams imagined by Paul, who's actually in a mental institution, and he's actually in the present day. LOL

gamer0004
17th Sep 2008, 13:29
Once again, I refer to Lower Seattle, Old Cairo, Trier. They really were not that futeristic.


I think it's pretty futuristic to (apparently) destroy a complete town (and probably whole Cairo as well), to replace it with some Hollywood cardboard scenery consisting of no more than 10 m² and 3 "streets", then brainwashing the citizens so they actually think they live in a real town.
Wait, did I just uncover the REAL DX:IW conspiracy? :scratch:

Romeo
18th Sep 2008, 02:25
MissDenton is not going to be impressed. :D
[EDIT] Or Romeo, come to think of it.....



That is a personal dream of mine for DX3. Mech augs. Fits in with my preference of the game being a prequel too.
DAMN RIGHT I'M NOT. I smell a banhammer nearby... ;)

K^2
18th Sep 2008, 02:39
Now, now. Put that heavy thing down. Haven't we talked about power abuse already?

Read Machiavelli. Prince, in particular. You never power-abuse against your people directly. You get someone else to do it, and then punish that someone for crimes against the people. Then your deed is done, and the subjects are happy.

DXeXodus
18th Sep 2008, 04:12
But power abuse is just so much fun.

*Puts flaming sticks down on the ground* :whistle:

But I like your idea. Romeo, from now on you are doing all the dirty work.

general kane
18th Sep 2008, 16:19
i think a prequel would be better , since like there are many thingd that happend which are intresting more than a sequel .

Romeo
19th Sep 2008, 04:09
But power abuse is just so much fun.

*Puts flaming sticks down on the ground* :whistle:

But I like your idea. Romeo, from now on you are doing all the dirty work.
Nice to have another guy in my Buddy Club. Now I have three full friends! That's three more than I have in Vancouver! =D

Apollonius
20th Sep 2008, 08:19
Oooh, if it were a prequel, I’d need to see General Carter in action showing off his knifing skills. It would be interesting to find out how and why his family were killed and what happened afterwards. I also wanna know how he got that scar too!

If it were set between the two previous games, it’d be awesome to visit Russia (or thereabouts) to see how the Omar actually started coming to power after the collapse.

If it’s a sequel to both then there’s no limit to stories to tell! :)

Can’t wait!! :nut:

Jerion
20th Sep 2008, 08:51
Oooh, if it were a prequel, I’d need to see General Carter in action showing off his knifing skills. It would be interesting to find out how and why his family were killed and what happened afterwards. I also wanna know how he got that scar too!

If it were set between the two previous games, it’d be awesome to visit Russia (or thereabouts) to see how the Omar actually started coming to power after the collapse.

If it’s a sequel to both then there’s no limit to stories to tell! :)

Can’t wait!! :nut:

"A pistol is more than adequate. Hell, I dispatched a whole platoon one time with a pocket knife." :D

MagnumJoe
25th Sep 2008, 10:57
I would prefer a sequel, ONLY if it is done correctly...

Because after IW, it is easier for EIDOS to make a prequel.

I think a sequel would be better as it can hold many spin-offs and more variety and creativity... AGAIN, if invested in the right manner.

But i don't mind a prequel... I don't mind a spin-off... I don't mind it to be between the first 2 games, i don't mind anything at all! I just wanna start DXing :D

Though I would like to play with JC Denton again, which is almost impossible to make :lol: but i would like it :)

ewanlaing
26th Sep 2008, 00:41
I think it's pretty futuristic to (apparently) destroy a complete town (and probably whole Cairo as well), to replace it with some Hollywood cardboard scenery consisting of no more than 10 m² and 3 "streets", then brainwashing the citizens so they actually think they live in a real town.
Wait, did I just uncover the REAL DX:IW conspiracy? :scratch:

Fair point.

Though I was deliberately trying not to mention new Seattle and The Cairo Arcology.

But I don't want the game to NOT be futuristic either. Otherwise what's the point? I liked some of the futuristic elements in both games. IW went a little too far, but if the game just ends up being set in modern/close to modern times then it loses some of it's a appeal. For me anyway.

But my main gripe is the story. I don't understand why so many people think theres some grand mystery to earlier events in the storyline. All the important stuff has been covered in datacubes and newspaper articles already, if not in conversations and main story points. I'm really not interested in Walton Simons backstory, because it's not important. All the characters are well-established enough.

I want major plot twists and massive new developments in the story, and a prequel just doesn't allow the story enough freedom for that.

Romeo
26th Sep 2008, 03:14
Yeah, see that, I think, is the fundamental problem with a prequel. Sure, you don't know the details, but you still know the end result.

And if the tech in Invisible War is too advanced, perhaps we could claim that by any of the endings in it, they ended up causing a war, which in turn, sent the technology back a few decades (all high end stuff was used and abused, and presumably, the centres to produce them would've been annihilated in the epic struggle). That way, people could return to the "not so advanced" technology of Deus Ex, while still getting a brand new, and original plot.

gamer0004
26th Sep 2008, 13:43
Yeah, see that, I think, is the fundamental problem with a prequel. Sure, you don't know the details, but you still know the end result.

You always do. Well, maybe not always, but in most cases you do. In knew exactly what was going to happen in IW. I would end up joining the Illuminati, some computer AI or a new Dark Age (Templar ending (that'd what I think anyway), Omar). So what was new there?



And if the tech in Invisible War is too advanced, perhaps we could claim that by any of the endings in it, they ended up causing a war, which in turn, sent the technology back a few decades (all high end stuff was used and abused, and presumably, the centres to produce them would've been annihilated in the epic struggle). That way, people could return to the "not so advanced" technology of Deus Ex, while still getting a brand new, and original plot.

While this could turn out to be very good, it won't. The masterminds which had created DX weren't even able to present a new believable world only 20 years after the first game, so a complete ne society like this... Nah, you'll probably end up with some cliché Good VS Bad or some religious nonsens (Templars anyone?). Somehow writers don't seem to understand that there are never two main parties everyone belongs to. It's not like either WTO or Order, and some idiots opting for extreme forms like the Omar and Templars.
There would probably be hundreds (if not thousands) of different organisations all vying for power. Not even during the Cold War there were two very clearly defined organisations everyone belonged to. Politics are never black and white but always different shades of grey.

Nathan2000
26th Sep 2008, 17:23
And if the tech in Invisible War is too advanced, perhaps we could claim that by any of the endings in it, they ended up causing a war, which in turn, sent the technology back a few decades (all high end stuff was used and abused, and presumably, the centres to produce them would've been annihilated in the epic struggle). That way, people could return to the "not so advanced" technology of Deus Ex, while still getting a brand new, and original plot.

Does a degree of technology advance really matter so much? I don't see any clear line between DX and DXIW, that would justify such desperate wanting to return to older technology (well, except maybe for universal ammo, but you know what I mean).

What I think really matters is that DXIW had too small scale - there was nothing to convince the player that WTO does NOT employ only a few dozens soldiers + the chairman. And in the end even the chairman got a gun. Small maps are another side of this.

And now for something completely different:

Not even during the Cold War there were two very clearly defined organisations everyone belonged to.
NATO vs. Warsaw Pact?

Romeo
26th Sep 2008, 21:11
lol, no he's right, there were some shades of gray involved, such as Canada.

And my idea was only a foundation of which to buid the thesis of technological devancing. The potential for them to screw up will exist no matter if it's before or after either game.

At the end, you could still have various shades of gray:

Omar - Fighting because because they still believe humanity is better off altering itself in order to better adapt to the potential of a technological dark age.

Collectors - Try to amass remaining technology, in an effort to restore the important technologies we once had.

Basics Extremists - They see technology as the plague which almost destroyed humanity on multiple occasions. By eliminating technology, the potential for humanity to kill itself off is significantly lower. Besides, it should make the humans physically tougher, having to revert to the basics.

Illumnati - Believe that humanity needs a central voice to unite the whole species, and stop the fighting, logically this means any who would cause anarchy need to be stopped at all costs, so that the Illumnati can hold power and save humanity.

Anarchists - Not necessarily complete chaos-mongerers, anarchists say that everyone needs to have a voice in reshaping the future, and as such, oppose regulated control suggested by others.

Mako Industries - Are propelled almost exclusively by money. It is their products being used in the war, their armors, their mods, their vehicles, their war. They want such a business to continue, and essentially ally themselves with the highest bidder.

There are a few opposites, such as collecters and extremists, and Illumnati to ararchists, but for the most part, they have overlap with eachother's philospohies.

ewanlaing
27th Sep 2008, 00:08
Yeah, I think there's far more places for the story to go after IW rather than before Deus Ex.

Midquel might work, but I don't really see it.

Romeo
27th Sep 2008, 05:52
Boo yeah. Chalk another one up for the little guy.

gamer0004
27th Sep 2008, 08:27
The problem was that for the extremists there were only two sides as well: Templars or Omar. I mean, there are like hundreds of extremist organisations in the world. There are hundreds of big corporations (not just one arms manufacturer: MAKO ballistics. Not even Bob Page's industry had such a monopoly). There are now several very big countries/unions (US, EU, Russia, China, even the African Union). There are many small countries opposing each other (Pakistan and India for instance), often even causing big troubles for the main superpowers (India had nuclear weapons...). Everything about politics is interwoven with each other. The US are powerless without the support of some of their main companies. Or without the oil from the oil producing countries in the Middle-East. And yet they go to war there and help Israel, which is the #1 enemy of those countries. It's almost never like "Me don't like you, me attack you" (Templars vs Omar and ApostleCorp).

Romeo
27th Sep 2008, 22:05
Well, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to imagine which of those factions would be somewhat allied, or against, eachother.