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cmstache
10th Jan 2014, 20:32
I really think that the scout normal dps is a bit high. But, I feel a vampire should have some kind of advantage 1v1. While straight melee attacking vs straight shots, the scout shouldn't be able to hang with a reaver.

The scout should have to WORK to beat a vamp 1v1, he's not a hunter. Clever use a skills, movement, and shot placement should be in order. It's pretty rare to see a scout lose in a 1v1 situation vs vamps.

Oroibahazopi
10th Jan 2014, 20:41
Scout dps is horrible compared to Hunter. Do the math

cmstache
10th Jan 2014, 20:45
The hunter is a close range fighter though, the scout is not. Although the hunter is also too much, but thats well known.

Oroibahazopi
10th Jan 2014, 20:46
Hunter isn't close range at all. Even after the patch I'm picking off Sents quite a distance away with the multibow.

cmstache
10th Jan 2014, 20:51
The multi-bow is different from the others. It's fired in bursts and has less of a spread. It's still high round volume, but far from the spray and pray that the other crossbows are. You comparing the multi-bow to the normal hunter playstyle is like comparing a jump/ironskin tyrant and a charge/enrage one. They are two different beasts.

Oroibahazopi
10th Jan 2014, 21:13
Multibow is best hunter weapon in every aspect why use a different one.

cmstache
11th Jan 2014, 14:56
Because you have to aim. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Kuro1n
11th Jan 2014, 17:18
I don't really get it. Scouts are hardly OP, the DPS is lacking enough that you can easily rip them to pieces if you catch them alone. Hunters and alchs are waaaaaay worse in close range combat, especially alchs.

cmstache
12th Jan 2014, 02:57
You're also fairly new. I'm good, but i'm not great. VERY rarely do I lose 1v1 with a scout, and I don't even have to work that hard. I just don't think that the vampires are feared like they should be. 1v1ing a vampire should be the last thing a human wants to do. Should they be beatable? Yes. Should it happen every time? No. Should it happen most of the time? No. They should be pretty much only killable if either the vampire screws up horribly, or you play flawless at the time. I understand that the devs want to not make it feel hopeless when stuck alone, but they need to make it a bit tougher. Vampires are all about close range combat, and people aren't discouraged enough about trying to chase down a lone vampire on their own.

Kuro1n
12th Jan 2014, 03:22
You're also fairly new. I'm good, but i'm not great. VERY rarely do I lose 1v1 with a scout, and I don't even have to work that hard. I just don't think that the vampires are feared like they should be. 1v1ing a vampire should be the last thing a human wants to do. Should they be beatable? Yes. Should it happen every time? No. Should it happen most of the time? No. They should be pretty much only killable if either the vampire screws up horribly, or you play flawless at the time. I understand that the devs want to not make it feel hopeless when stuck alone, but they need to make it a bit tougher. Vampires are all about close range combat, and people aren't discouraged enough about trying to chase down a lone vampire on their own.
Well I don't think the devs are going for lore friendly gameplay but rather good PVP gameplay as they should. This game is not a horror game, fearing the vampire? It's just another player. A well played character of either race can kill enemies 1v1 and I do not think that should change, after all getting away as a vampire is quite easy (as long as you aren't a tyrant).

cmstache
12th Jan 2014, 14:13
There are trying to stay as close to cannon as possible. That being said, it's not possible to do completely because it's not the same kind of game. When I said "feared" I meant more of combat style. Humans are designed to be ranged, with scouts being the longest of them. If a vampire manages to get close where it can melee (like it's supposed to) then it should be a bit harder than it is now to kill them. That's really the only point I'm trying to make. Currently, the humans don't have a big trade-off for the ability to attack from a distance, which is the issue here.

But, as strike said the other day: It's irrelevant anyways since both teams play both sides during a match anyways.

OpferderSeele
13th Jan 2014, 06:56
The more I play the more I dislike going against the scout. It's not really the dps that bothers me. It's the charged shot. I feel like I can't go anywhere as a vampire, whether it's a rooftop or the skies, without being knocked on my ass by a scout's well placed shot. I think giving the shot a knockdown is a bit too much.

Arbitrix
20th Jan 2014, 19:54
I love the Scout and I'm fairly new so I don't have the mechanics down pat yet, but I think that when I do get a good charged shot the knockdown is the best reward.

cmstache
20th Jan 2014, 21:41
The Warbow charged shot is WAY too strong. It commonly does 650+ damage once you add in fall damage + the stun to go with it and the cancelled ability. There's not a single ability with that amount of strength on any other class. The knives are rough enough.

jestdoit
20th Jan 2014, 23:35
Warbow's the weakest of the bunch, if it weren't for the bugged stormbow. Don't fly haphazardly against warbows, taking into the fall damage you'd take at your level of flight. Either go very high, or stay low/don't take flight until you're in position. Learn to exploit the long charge timing. Warbows stop uncoordinated rushes and forces a change of tactics by punishing bad flying - if you don't want to change your playstyle/go in with teammates, then expect to get smacked down.

Strike5150
21st Jan 2014, 10:29
Warbow is a pain to play against but as jest points out the long charge time means that with a co-ordinated team the scout will get off only one shot before he has to resort to unaimed plinking with a clip size of 4. Not exactly ideal.

There are maps though that heavily favor the warbow, not so much now because grapple points have been removed (thanks for that). Valehom was a crappy map for that, and freeport to a degree is really bad for this. There are not enough things that provide cover, and so a warbow can be used to great effect. When you are shooting down everything halfway across the map you get a lot of shots off, and any other scouts on your team with a compound bow for example can easily finish them after that.

cmstache
21st Jan 2014, 14:12
I agree, Valeholm in particular is ridiculously open. And Jest, even being on a building and shot off (not even talking sentinel here) means you take 200+ fall damage + a stun. That's still pretty OP. It's gotten better, but it's still high, eps since it has 205 unaimed dmg now. say 1 charged shot, 3 unaimed shots and a knife.. (very plausible) = dead. And they didn't even get to you. The only real way to fight a warbow is smoke, which doesn't really work atm.

Strike5150
21st Jan 2014, 14:26
One point jest raised which I find interesting is that if your going to fly around in the air you will be punished by a warbow, and you should be getting close on the ground and then leaping off a building into a grab or something a little more like that.

To me this is good advice for the current build and state of the game, but really what was the intended playstyle of a sentinal? Are sentinals supposed to be able to fly around the map or not? It really depends on the role that the devs envisioned for this class and so it would be nice to know what we should expect in this regard. If sentinals are supposed to be able to fly high above the map with some reasonable amount of security then yes I would have to say warbow is overpowered.

cmstache
21st Jan 2014, 14:38
You have a valid point, and one I don't entirely disagree with. Just giving them a slight speed increase for level flying may help too. Currently it's not much faster than running speed. The downside with this is that you don't get as much of a speed increase with a dive (which can be insanely fast). And would make his abilities more viable without having to get high to get enough speed to get in and out without being shot and having your kidnap/abduct cancelled instantly. I do think if it's implemented then it needs to be gradually though. Gradually increase it each update until it's where it needs to be. I don't think it would take much. Just enough to make snapshots on them a bit harder, and if it gets too high the sent could be ridiculously OP.

Oroibahazopi
21st Jan 2014, 15:29
You're playing a game where your enemy has hitscan weapons and you want to know what you can't just fly around in open skies with no cover?

Dude, it's called a skill curve. It's harder to fly at near ground level and stay in cover than just fly around the sky. It would be completely stupid if a sent could fly up high and aim their attack with no pressure from the most perfect vantage point.

cmstache
21st Jan 2014, 22:08
The issue isn't flying around and not getting shot. The issue is flying around near the ground and being useful during team combat, which can hit the sent pretty hard. Damage output and activation timing of kid/abd are highly dependant on speed, which you severely lack at near the ground.

Omhxyz
21st Jan 2014, 23:22
Scouts are the ones i fear the most among humans, especially with no class limit, eventho i dont play sentinel. I dont mind the extremely annoying knock downs that literally leaves you with 10% hp as others said it comes with a pretty big weakness and tbh its long range, thats where they supposed to shine. But their close range damage feels really high, and when you add in the knives/trap... I dunno maybe im just too used to playing against hunters/alchemists. Lately everyone playing scout.

Farmy44
20th May 2014, 14:53
I am relatively new to the game,playing for a week and a half atm but I find scouts too damn op.I know this is a old thread but idk if its ok to open a new one.As far as scouts go they should be snipers...and as snipers they should fail hard when you get close...but hey they got 180dmg with normal hits...that is way too much...they should do 90dmg with normal hits..also they need no defensive ability...the invis maybe :-?(fits the sniper thingy) but those daggers are ****ed up.Also the aoe dmg from scouts is HUGE...like way better then any aoe you can get.So the scouts are good in any situation...from OP at long range to decent in close range with OP aoe ailities.They need a nerf,a huge one.Lower dmg on normal hits?or make normal hits to do 200dmg and make them reaload after each hit(Like normal archers do???)Remove knockback on daggers and buff the dmg a bit.Also aoe's could use a dmg nerf.I am sure I got lots to learn,and that I am new to the game but in all games I played scouts get top dmg and kills,doesent matter what strategy we try they get to **** us in the ass with their OP dmg and those decent escapes.

If somebody is considering scouts a jack of all trades kind of class...remember that they should be mediocre at best in anything they do...atm they are awesome from long to close range,Best when it comes to aoe and badass with defensive skills.This defines a broken class...no weak points,no hard counter

cmstache
20th May 2014, 16:14
Hunter is considered the Jack-of-all-trades class...

Farmy44
26th May 2014, 17:50
And yet hunters have no aoe,no huge dmg at long range,no positioning tools ... and don't say they are doing better dmg then scouts in close range...since scouts got same dps as alchemist in close range.Scouts are OP atm,and god when 2 or more people play scouts in a team(and I mean proper scout gameplay) vamps got no power

ICantPauseItMom
26th May 2014, 17:59
after reading throw the thread, it just seems like you hate scouts...
You make it sound like vampires have no chance vs a scout at all, which is not true at all, vs many of the good players I have, comes down to who knows what they are doing.
You notice this more in higher level/skill matches at least.

Razaiim
27th May 2014, 21:05
@Farmy
All of the hunters secondary skills are aoe. Bola let's them control enemy players. With patience and decent aim a hunter can plink away at enemies at long range. Their DPS may be slightly lower than other classes at close range, but they can sustain it for way longer. Hunter is pretty jack of all trades
@I Can't Pause it. Look at the dates on the thread. Back in January Scout was evil Satan overlord, and warbow was able to do nearly 600 damage a shot.

Right now I don't struggle with Scout too much 1v1. If I can even get first melee hit, I can bring them down easy even with daggers unless they have Swift bow. I usually nail them with one of my primary skills first though so Unlesd they're supported its over