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View Full Version : Was anyone else confused by some aspects of Deus Ex:



drummindog
12th Aug 2008, 20:22
I am not knocking DX1, but I did constantly feel confused by the numerous characters and factions involved. Did anyone else feel this way?

imported_van_HellSing
12th Aug 2008, 21:21
Actually I was frustrated a bit that it wasn't more complicated, I felt everything was too simple and naive.

Jimmy Rabbitte
12th Aug 2008, 22:25
oh boy, OP is going to get reamed.

Igoe
12th Aug 2008, 22:59
He has a valid point, More factions, AT FIRST tend to be confusing and such, especially when you're trying to play casually.

They tried to remedy this in IW, but it came across as a bit TOO watered down.

The main point here is that you have to find that happy medium: a story with 20 characters is confusing, a story with 5 characters becomes droll.

What usually works is to have a good strong list of main characters, but a bunch of supporting characters that, and heres the kicker, REAPPEAR FREQUENTLY. Avoid one-shot characters (Howard Strong) and if you're introducing a character late in the game, he BETTER BE really important.

I, personally, LOVED all the hints about Bob Page in the game before you actually met him. It was like you hadn't seen enough of the world yet to have him fit into the picture. He was mentioned early on but not MET until much later, and he WAS a power player, so it all worked out.

Too long, didn't read:

Keep your characters under 20. Don't do any one-shot characters, see the ones you do create all the way through. MAKE SURE YOU INCLUDE A NOTEPAD for keeping track of things, in the PC version at least. It is an indispensable tool overlooked by most games nowadays.

Spyhopping
12th Aug 2008, 23:33
Logging objectives and past conversations was great to refur to if you had missed something in DX

K^2
12th Aug 2008, 23:59
Yes, notepad is a must. In fact, I think we should be allowed to keep a separate paragraph of notes on each character.

This might not be quite so important if you play through the game in a day or two, but some of us don't have a lot of time for the games. I'll be lucky to get through a 20hr game in a month. So if a character disappears for a while, I might not remember who the heck it was by the time I see that character again.

drummindog
13th Aug 2008, 00:12
Yes, notepad is a must. In fact, I think we should be allowed to keep a separate paragraph of notes on each character.

This might not be quite so important if you play through the game in a day or two, but some of us don't have a lot of time for the games. I'll be lucky to get through a 20hr game in a month. So if a character disappears for a while, I might not remember who the heck it was by the time I see that character again.

I'm with you. I'm married and have plenty to do. If I feel extremely trifling, I tend to spend a Saturday playing a game, but that rarely happens. So, yes, keeping some kind of mental notes went out the window. I am not sure I care for a game that almost is so involved that they have to include a notepad. I think the characters just need clearer direction and connection. The fact that we had all these major player and major factions was just too much for my aging brain when I only play for a little while one to two times a week.

I just reloaded it, so it should be fun for the upteenth time still. :lol:

minus0ne
13th Aug 2008, 01:21
No.

jcp28
13th Aug 2008, 01:27
Agree with van helsing and minusone.

I played a few hours a day over 3 months and I never really got confused. I just waited for everything to unfold. And in the end, it was quite satisfying.:cool: On the other hand, I keep interesting sounding stuff together pretty well, otherwise, it would have been harder, say if there were lots of technical terms thrown in(which is why I'm not going to be an engineer, booring)

DXeXodus
13th Aug 2008, 03:52
Deus Ex is a complex game, but I regard that as part of it's charm. If you don't understand things all too well the first time around you can just play it again and fill in the missing pieces. I don't know how many times I have watched a movie and not understood it completely the first time, then second time around it made perfect sense.

I think a complex game like Deus Ex is built on the premise that the player has time to investigate it's elements in it thoroughly. I may not have the most time in the world to play a game, but I always move through it with patience, trying to put the pieces together one by one. Miss it the first time, play it again, and again, then play it again. Many people here, including myself have played Deus Ex between twenty and thirty times and still find new bits of story. That is why it is an awesome, timeless game.

gamer0004
13th Aug 2008, 04:27
Exactly. It shouldn't be less complex, as that was one of the most annoying things in IW IMHO (even though I quite liked the game). Of course, it would be OK if we could read some background information about characters we've already met (like automatic personal notes as in STALKER).

DXeXodus
13th Aug 2008, 04:49
I felt S.T.A.L.K.E.R. was also an excellent game which had a good level of complexity. I don't like it when games do everything for you. I would much rather sit and read about characters and find things out through exploration than get spoon fed.

Oh, and happy 500 posts gamer0004 :cool:

K^2
13th Aug 2008, 05:41
I felt S.T.A.L.K.E.R. was also an excellent game which had a good level of complexity. I don't like it when games do everything for you. I would much rather sit and read about characters and find things out through exploration than get spoon fed.
Well, how about a compromise, then. DX is supposed to be the high tech future. So why not have a system that stores all the notes, e-mails, and whatever else you have been reading. Furthermore, add a list of references under each character to stored notes that contain the name of the character. In this case, if you forgot what a scrap of paper you might have read last month said about so and so, you are just a click away from reading it again.

DXeXodus
13th Aug 2008, 05:48
Well, how about a compromise, then. DX is supposed to be the high tech future. So why not have a system that stores all the notes, e-mails, and whatever else you have been reading. Furthermore, add a list of references under each character to stored notes that contain the name of the character. In this case, if you forgot what a scrap of paper you might have read last month said about so and so, you are just a click away from reading it again.

That was basically present in the original Deus Ex, save for the character notes. I dont mind automated notes at all. I don't want to have to wite everything down, but it should always be stored somewhere once you find it as you say.

Fen
13th Aug 2008, 13:16
While the complexity of the game was not too high. I do agree that when you played the first time over a long period of time, you really lost which character was which and what their story was. Still when you go back, its awsome because the game has a whole new level that you missed the first time round.

I agree with a little bio profile thing for people you meet. Dont include their family history or some ****, just have like a tab, a pic of em, current location (if known), heigh/weight and conversations that you had with them in the past. The sorts of things you could only learn from your experiences with the person. Not stuff you would find on their facebook or something. The profiles shouldnt give anything out about the character, you have to learn who they are themselves. It just would make it easier to be able to match a name to a face.

Voltaire
13th Aug 2008, 15:45
I for one thought that the note system was relatively well thought out for the first game (although e-mails were not "vaulted" like conversations and notes, which annoyed me). I also liked the ability to annotate the images in the datavault.

minus0ne
13th Aug 2008, 17:35
Deus Ex is a complex game, but I regard that as part of it's charm. If you don't understand things all too well the first time around you can just play it again and fill in the missing pieces. I don't know how many times I have watched a movie and not understood it completely the first time, then second time around it made perfect sense.
Well said, what I would've said had I had the time :D I just felt 'No' would be concise. That said, I don't know how many movies I've watched more than two times but have yet to understand (which was intended of course). Some Kubrick, Tarkovski and Lynch films spring to mind :nut: Or rather, I get a different understanding out of each watch. Not that I'm elevating DX to those movies, but for a game at the time, it was pretty damn good.


I think a complex game like Deus Ex is built on the premise that the player has time to investigate it's elements in it thoroughly. I may not have the most time in the world to play a game, but I always move through it with patience, trying to put the pieces together one by one. Miss it the first time, play it again, and again, then play it again. Many people here, including myself have played Deus Ex between twenty and thirty times and still find new bits of story. That is why it is an awesome, timeless game.
Exactly. DX feels like a good futuristic detective film at more than one places, it beckons to be investigated further, closer. After more than ten replays, I still get the feeling I'm missing something, and I probably am.

imported_van_HellSing
13th Aug 2008, 20:06
I, personally, LOVED all the hints about Bob Page in the game before you actually met him. It was like you hadn't seen enough of the world yet to have him fit into the picture. He was mentioned early on but not MET until much later, and he WAS a power player, so it all worked out.

Err, no. You actually talk to Page (well, through a hologram) in the tutorial. Also, one of my biggest gripes about the game is the intro, which immediately tells you Page and Simons are the bad guys and UNATCO is a puppet organisation, which ruins any surprise later on.

The handling of the plot is really heavy handed in DX overall, I frequently had to roll my eyes during the game, when some character reveals "shocking" information that's pretty much obvious if you paid any attention to what was going on. :rolleyes:

Vadim Verenich
13th Aug 2008, 21:09
What usually works is to have a good strong list of main characters, but a bunch of supporting characters that, and heres the kicker, REAPPEAR FREQUENTLY. Avoid one-shot characters (Howard Strong) and if you're introducing a character late in the game, he BETTER BE really important.

I, personally, LOVED all the hints about Bob Page in the game before you actually met him. It was like you hadn't seen enough of the world yet to have him fit into the picture. He was mentioned early on but not MET until much later, and he WAS a power player, so it all worked out.



Yes, this is a good formula, but if i was a game designer i would reduce a list to 15, adding more tertiary (third-level) characters with their own parallel stories.

In-universe cross-reference is also a good trick (you mentioned Bob Page, but actually other characters like Garry Savage could be mentioned). I hope Dx3 team will use this trick.

Fen
14th Aug 2008, 11:17
Also, one of my biggest gripes about the game is the intro, which immediately tells you Page and Simons are the bad guys and UNATCO is a puppet organisation, which ruins any surprise later on.
\

Haha, I was fortunate enough the first time I played DX to actually skip that sequence. So I didnt see it for the first time till I played my second run through. Was quite a big spoiler wasnt it.