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gamer0004
11th Aug 2008, 12:20
"WASHINGTON (AP) - Scientists say they are a step closer to
developing materials that could render people and objects
invisible.
Researchers have demonstrated for the first time they were able
to cloak three-dimensional objects using artificially engineered
materials that redirect light around the objects.
Previously, they only have been able to cloak very thin
two-dimensional objects.
The findings, by scientists at the University of California,
Berkeley, are to be released later this week in the journals Nature
and Science.
The new work moves scientists a step closer to hiding people and
objects from visible light, which could have broad applications,
including military ones.
"
http://www.wkrg.com/national/article/invisibility_cloak/16769/
And it's supposed to be at nano-scale...

Check this for a more elaborate version:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article4499914.ece

Especially interesting is the following phrase: "substances artificially created using nano-engineering". Deus ex augmentations, anyone?

DXeXodus
11th Aug 2008, 12:54
The new work moves scientists a step closer to hiding people and
objects from visible light, which could have broad applications,
including military ones

And also opens up a plethora of problems with regards to perverts and criminals. As cool as it is I can see technology like this ultimately leading to bad things.

gamer0004
11th Aug 2008, 13:07
And also opens up a plethora of problems with regards to perverts...
Exactly my thought when I read this: "...perhaps eventually allowing Harry Potter's invisibility cloak to be merchandised."

AaronJ
11th Aug 2008, 14:59
If I could turn invisible, I'd throw things at people. For the rest of my life.

jcp28
11th Aug 2008, 15:43
I couls see plenty of uses for this, many of them pretty damn bad. Got to go, sorry.

minus0ne
11th Aug 2008, 16:11
Yeah the pentagon hasn't been dumping tens of millions of dollars or more into metamaterials for no reason ;)

Interesting that you see criminals and perverts as the cause of problems here; seeing as though this will first be available to governments (and most worryingly the US) I perceive that as several orders of magnitude more dangerous, and.. you know, this is a Deus Ex forum *ahem* :p

I couls see plenty of uses for this, many of them pretty damn bad. Got to go, sorry.
Dude, who are you to stand in the way of SCIENCE!!

*laughs maniacally while lighting lights up the room

But seriously, as bad as it may seem I can think of a few other uses off-hand, all not so terrible:
- Space-travel related applications / energy generation possibly
- Partially 'cloaking' wind mills (not the blades, obviously) - Okay, perhaps too exotic as we could just move them further in the seas.
- Cloaking industrial infrastructure or buildings
- Art! Holy ****, think off what Gehry or a sculptor could do with this!

If I could turn invisible, I'd throw things at people. For the rest of my life.
I'd finally live out my Thief fantasy and relieve the Dutch aristocracy of their jewelry and other valuables :D

Fen
11th Aug 2008, 16:12
Yeah, If I list the good things and the bad things that can come of this technology, the bad list seems to be a lot longer. Still its cool to be able to have this technology, you never know its uses.

Red
11th Aug 2008, 17:13
Two words:

Infrared Cameras.

Jimmy Rabbitte
11th Aug 2008, 20:45
energy generation possibly

How do you plan on using this discovery to generate energy?

minus0ne
11th Aug 2008, 23:34
Yeah, If I list the good things and the bad things that can come of this technology, the bad list seems to be a lot longer. Still its cool to be able to have this technology, you never know its uses.
Exactly, applications for this are perhaps too exotic to think of now, but think what stuff like this could mean in decades time.

Two words:

Infrared Cameras.
Infrared is just another frequency of light, mate ;)

How do you plan on using this discovery to generate energy?
Well I'm not planning anything :p But we can't possibly foresee all the applications this could have. When the laser was invented, this lead to fantastical expectations in the general public (all kinds of cold-war fantasy laser weapons), which also led to some awesome science fiction.

However, no one at the time foresaw that lasers would lead to instantaneous communications, circuit lithography, computers and the internet. And that's just photons going in the same direction at the same frequency, think of what refracting light beyond the negative could do! (or whatever it's called in English when light is negatively refracted)

http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010430S0110

This article already lists this as advancing computer lithography and communications, and the ability to create a "perfect" lens:


"We believe that engineers will find all types of wonderful applications for metamaterials," said Smith. "For instance, the cellular communications industry will be able to create novel new filters and solid-state antennas that fit right on a circuit board. And when we refine it to operate at visible frequencies, we will be able to create a perfect lens."

The researchers found a way to physically implement a longstanding theoretical analysis of how materials with a negative index of refraction might behave. All known materials have been found to have a positive index of refraction. But in 1968, Russian theorist V.G. Veselago predicted that metamaterials could someday be engineered that would interact with their environment in a manner precisely the opposite of the way natural materials react.

Metamaterials use repeated composite structures with properties specifically engineered to "break" inconvenient laws of nature. In particular, all naturally occurring materials exhibit two parameters: permeability and permitivity. Those two properties determine how a material will interact with electromagnetic (EM) radiation, including light, microwaves, radio waves, X-rays and all other EM wavelengths. The "right-hand rule" — which all natural materials follow because their permeability and permitivity both have positive signs — shows the direction in which the wave velocity propagates relative to the orthogonal electric and magnetic fields affecting it.

Jimmy Rabbitte
12th Aug 2008, 00:25
That's true, but there's only so much you can do with redirecting light. We already use something similar in solar power: mirrors.

DXeXodus
12th Aug 2008, 04:05
Interesting that you see criminals and perverts as the cause of problems here; seeing as though this will first be available to governments (and most worryingly the US)

I see criminals and perverts as some of the most widespread and evenly distributed problems.

This will of course also lead to serious technological advances in warfare as-well, in terms of stealth elements for troops and vehicles, but that can be a good thing in the right hands I suppose. Which basically sums up this kind of technology.

Red
12th Aug 2008, 06:17
Infrared is just another frequency of light, mate ;)


It's easier to detect light anomalies when you monitor only a portion of all of the frequencies.

If (IF) they manage to fully develop this thing, it'll be useless for objects in motion. But I suppose it has some value in cloaking stationary objects.

Romeo
12th Aug 2008, 06:22
Two words:

Infrared Cameras.
Yeah, that was the problem with the British team that devellopped a technology not unlike the one used on the car in "Die Another Die", where there were a number of cameras, followed by thousands of holographic cameras. Conversely, it only worked from certain angles, and needed to remain stationary to function (the refresh rate was somewhat slow), but they said even worse problems were the price, the delicacy of the equipment, and the fact it wont hide things from infrared.

El_Bel
12th Aug 2008, 12:40
This will of course also lead to serious technological advances in warfare as-well, in terms of stealth elements for troops and vehicles, but that can be a good thing in the right hands I suppose. Which basically sums up this kind of technology.

And whose hands are the right hands? I don't trust US government. I am actually afraid of the US. Afraid that they will bring war (either directly by invading us or by helping our enemies). Actually i don't trust any world power. The perverts is the least of my worries when i hear about this kind of power.

jcp28
12th Aug 2008, 16:01
And whose hands are the right hands? I don't trust US government. I am actually afraid of the US. Afraid that they will bring war (either directly by invading us or by helping our enemies). Actually i don't trust any world power. The perverts is the least of my worries when i hear about this kind of power.

Who do you mean, Turkey? I'm not sure if they would want to risk their EU membership over age-old disagreements.

See, I'm not really sure who you mean by enemies and whose enemies. I presume Greece and Turkey, but your generic "Us is evil" statement just makes me wonder.

El_Bel
12th Aug 2008, 17:27
Well we don't have enemies. But we have tensions between Greece and Turkey. President Erdogan of Turkey would never attack, Greece, because he wants to be part of EU. But unfortunately in Turkey military has a really strong say on politics and they can any time they want to take charge of the country. And they dont care about EU. Every day we scramble f16's to intercept incoming fighters. Everyday we have "virtual" dogfights over our islands (no bullets are fired). Last year we lost an airplane to an "accident". In the year 1996 we came close to all out war because of the Imia crisis. My father did go to the barracks, and received his weapons. We spend 8% of our GDP on military equipment every year.

I am not worrying though about war. I don't think it will happen. As long as we are good boys for the US.. Most of our analysts agree that US directly controls the situation here and contribute to keep the tension. :(

timborg
12th Aug 2008, 19:47
yeah just think of all the fun that the terrosist will have when they get there hands on it and they will.

gamer0004
13th Aug 2008, 04:21
They didn't get their hands on any nuclear weapons either...

Romeo
13th Aug 2008, 04:28
Hey boys, try to remember that the "bad guys" are always those on the other side of your borders. I'm sure no country goes to war saying to their troops: We're the bad guys, but we will prevail!

Red
13th Aug 2008, 11:43
Yet another step:

A real kill-switch (http://www.smartcompany.com.au/Free-Articles/The-Briefing/20080813-Apple-confirms-iPhone-kill-switch.html)

minus0ne
13th Aug 2008, 16:48
I think everyone is seriously underestimating how hard this is to replicate. We're talking about making fabrics which have weaves that contain holes smaller than the wavelength of light (yes, even infrared).

In case even that didn't make sense to you, then, NO, Osama is not going to equip suicide bombers with magic cloaks any time soon.

Which is why I'm more concerned about DARPA, the Pentagon and the CIA or NSA doing 'black ops' equipped with this. In case you haven't heard already, the US is currently carrying out black ops and "sabotage" in Iran (http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN29358834), hoping to instigate a war and/or topple the regime (not trying to bring politics to this topic, just stating a fact).

The US has never been able to resist showing off their latest technology, even if that display of power costs hundreds of thousands of lives. I'm just saying there's no "falling into the wrong hands" with this: it's already in the hands of the worst possible bunch of people imaginable - never mind Gotti Jr. trying to escape from prison in a magic cloak smuggled inside a birthday cake :rolleyes:

But hey, like I said, there must be good sides to this invention, right? Just not in the applications the Pentagon's looking for :p

Romeo
13th Aug 2008, 19:34
How it is even possible though, after all, the gap from the Protons/Neutrons tto the electrons is large enough for light to pass through, and that cannot be modified with current technologies...

El_Bel
13th Aug 2008, 19:38
Whats wrong with a bit of politics in a Deus Ex forum? As long as we dont get out of line...

Romeo
13th Aug 2008, 19:42
Yeah, I think as long as you all play nice, the mods could turn a blind eye to what's being discussed.

jcp28
14th Aug 2008, 02:38
Not at all like the one where that troll started an argument arguing about US policy in Iraq in a way that was irrelevant to what was being discussed. That was just out of line.

Romeo
14th Aug 2008, 04:32
Anyhoo, like I said, I'll accept any punishments promised for discussing politics, just be polite and accepting of other's perspective's, even if they arn't awesome like Canada is. lol