PDA

View Full Version : BOTH FACTIONS Major Balancing Problems



ZangarftheWrassler
7th Jan 2014, 00:04
I have gradually been leaning towards "I quit Nosgoth," because of how unbalanced matches are in this game. I think this game is a blast but neither loosing ridiculously nor whooping a teams butt feels rewarding but still seems like the majority situation. Instead, I feel good players are being matched with people who still have a lot to learn about the game.

I get you all (Psyonix and partners in crime) will eventually implement a matching system so more even-skilled players can fight amongst themselves. The thing is, I can't stand playing with a poorly matched team from either front. I either feel shorthanded or overpowered and considering how fine tuned the gameplay is, I think most players do.

I know I am not the only one here. I spent two rounds typing in chat while my team devastated my opponents (i.e., with one man short) so clearly we need to find a resolution. This has nothing to do with race balances but more with subjecting newer players to painful losses while subjecting veteran players with painful wins.

PS: It doesn't help that I have to wait 20 minutes to start a game.

Oroibahazopi
7th Jan 2014, 00:11
yep.

Varulven
7th Jan 2014, 00:45
^This!

Strike5150
7th Jan 2014, 10:47
This is a well known fact which is difficult to solve at the moment. The issue is that we simply don't have a very large player base, its an alpha. And the second is that a lot of people have already stopped playing, so there is only a small group of semi-hardcore players mixed in with new players that decided to install today and check it out when they got an invite weeks/months ago.

The only thing I can tell you is that they are aware of this issue and are pushing square-enix to do more alpha invites. This should be happening soon according to posts on the main website as well as facebook.

I would also love to see them finally fix the issue where lobbies get messed up and then the teams are uneven, 5v3 for example. The other day we had a bunch of false match starts and then it got messed up 5v3. The reason I think this happened is because we had a team of 3, 4 solos and then after a couple of failed match starts because 1 person kept leaving a team of 2 joined. They joined either together or one joined and the other was invited through steam.

lucinvampire
7th Jan 2014, 11:10
I found the US servers even more unbalanced than the EU in player skill sets…but that might just be who I’ve been matched with.

Sometimes it looks like a good variety (mixed teams) but then the lobbies scramble and then its all unbalance...which I know is because friends/chance but you know.

Give them time, they will get it sorted at some point soon and then everything will be sparkly and fun :D

ZangarftheWrassler
7th Jan 2014, 23:06
I found the US servers even more unbalanced than the EU in player skill sets…but that might just be who I’ve been matched with.

Sometimes it looks like a good variety (mixed teams) but then the lobbies scramble and then its all unbalance...which I know is because friends/chance but you know.

Give them time, they will get it sorted at some point soon and then everything will be sparkly and fun :D

I totally understand. It's just, I'm a busy guy who views his time as precious. I feel very privileged to be part of the alpha/beta but it's hard to feel motivated to play when I have to wait a decent chunk of time to play and then when I play, it's not competitively fun. I love the gameplay and I love that it's LoK and I think the team cares but if Squenix really is shorthanding them and us, I am a little disappointed with them. Considering this game is going to be F2P and they have applicants in waiting, I can't see why they can't get those codes out. Maybe they should sync up a major update with a new batch of invites. That way some players that left might come back (send out emails Psyonix!) and the server pop will be larger and maybe more skilled players will show up.

Varulven
7th Jan 2014, 23:12
There are enough skilled players, believe me!
But the match up is terrible. I often see the high leveled players grouping up in a lobby, while the newbies search randomly. The problem is: The Newbies have to fight a bunch of skilled players and I totally understand if they will quit nosgoth. I am an alphatester for a longer time (since oct 2013 I guess), but I am totally untalented. Monstly I have to fight against a team of pro-gamers and I hate it! The most time I have no chance to land a hit on an enemy.

ZangarftheWrassler
7th Jan 2014, 23:19
That and a lot of the skilled players get paired with new players which can make even the best carrier fail.

Psyonix_Corey
7th Jan 2014, 23:19
In the next patch, a few things will be happening:

- First pass team balancing will be active and will use Player Rank to attempt to balance out teams. We know this is not a reliable indicator of player skill, but more time is needed to develop a true skill-based indicator for team balancing. For now this should at least attempt to even out high level pros vs. newbies.
- Temporarily (until we have a larger playerbase), we have lifted the restriction that prevented organized parties from being split up across teams. This means players who search as a group can and will be divided amongst both teams to find the best balance available.

We don't control when invites go out, Square's team does, but they are reading your frustrations and I assure you were are constantly discussing the right time to invite new users. The goal in general is to get to Closed Beta as quickly as possible at which point we can invite a large pool of fresh blood, but the major issues need to be ironed out before that can happen (matchmaking bugs, team balancing, etc.)

ZangarftheWrassler
8th Jan 2014, 00:04
In the next patch, a few things will be happening:

- First pass team balancing will be active and will use Player Rank to attempt to balance out teams. We know this is not a reliable indicator of player skill, but more time is needed to develop a true skill-based indicator for team balancing. For now this should at least attempt to even out high level pros vs. newbies.
- Temporarily (until we have a larger playerbase), we have lifted the restriction that prevented organized parties from being split up across teams. This means players who search as a group can and will be divided amongst both teams to find the best balance available.

We don't control when invites go out, Square's team does, but they are reading your frustrations and I assure you were are constantly discussing the right time to invite new users. The goal in general is to get to Closed Beta as quickly as possible at which point we can invite a large pool of fresh blood, but the major issues need to be ironed out before that can happen (matchmaking bugs, team balancing, etc.)

How can we help you with that? Part of the reason I don't want to abandon is I assume you need our feedback. Those ideas sound great. I could see problems potentially arising but these are definitely a step in the right direction.

I have the screenshots of my latest match. I was in a match where we were down 3 players (2v4) and were losing dramatically by 14 points. But when a full team assembled, we won by two points. However, we didn't win by score but by time implying that simply by having uneven teams we can recover from a 14 score difference loss. I guess I am driving this into the ground, but I wanted to make sure I have evidence that I am not insane.

lucinvampire
8th Jan 2014, 09:48
Zang I understand about time and frustration :D hopefully this fix mentioned will help…for now at least until something proper happens!

Though I think I’m level 12 now and have been playing for a long while and still completely suck so not sure how that will help me much lol…

cmstache
8th Jan 2014, 15:51
I'll miss the full parties, but it'll be easier to learn/improve by playing against them. :P

Oroibahazopi
8th Jan 2014, 18:44
Corey,

Mention to Square guys that giving us alpha testers some invites so we can target some people who would actually stick around and provide feedback might be a good idea. I know there are people who have been waiting to play for a long time but I know we have people who are part of groups that could really push Nosgoth's stability and balance to extreme breaking points ^^

Def feeling the matchmaking changes though. What are the plans for the release skill ranking system, if you have any yet?

urganite
9th Jan 2014, 01:57
If people linked their steam account to their SE account at signup, SE should be able to pick applicants who are steam friends with existing and active testers. Just saying, it would be quite easy to do if you asked me.

Zindiq
9th Jan 2014, 10:45
In the next patch, a few things will be happening:


- Temporarily (until we have a larger playerbase), we have lifted the restriction that prevented organized parties from being split up across teams. This means players who search as a group can and will be divided amongst both teams to find the best balance available.

So the competitive TEAM based arena game now don't let you be in a team ?

I know this is not permanent but still think its silly , Why don't ppl find other ppl to team up with ?

Another thing that anoy me even more is the mass number of ppl that when there team don't do good just leave the battle, this happen in more and more battles. When do Psionix address that problem?

Varulven
9th Jan 2014, 11:10
Another thing that anoy me even more is the mass number of ppl that when there team don't do good just leave the battle, this happen in more and more battles. When do Psionix address that problem?

Because it's annoying if you get punched to the ground by pro-gamerz.
It feels bad, really bad. And who wants to feel bad? hm?

cmstache
9th Jan 2014, 12:33
The only way to get better though is by playing better players. I get stomped daily, but I try to learn from them.

Monkeythumbz
9th Jan 2014, 13:20
Mention to Square guys that giving us alpha testers some invites so we can target some people who would actually stick around and provide feedback might be a good idea. I know there are people who have been waiting to play for a long time but I know we have people who are part of groups that could really push Nosgoth's stability and balance to extreme breaking points ^^

This is a good idea - we've added it to the long and ever-growing list of things we'd like to do in the near future.

Oroibahazopi
9th Jan 2014, 14:21
Woop

lucinvampire
9th Jan 2014, 14:37
The only way to get better though is by playing better players. I get stomped daily, but I try to learn from them.

I agree and same. Like you say even if the odds aren’t in your favour – it’s making you learn (though when I get abuse through chat for being so bad it’s tempting)…but I wouldn’t even know how to quit.

NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!!! :D


This is a good idea - we've added it to the long and ever-growing list of things we'd like to do in the near future.

Ooooooooooooooooh :D

Syst3mzero
9th Jan 2014, 14:54
I agree and same. Like you say even if the odds aren’t in your favour – it’s making you learn (though when I get abuse through chat for being so bad it’s tempting)…but I wouldn’t even know how to quit.

NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!!! :D



Lucin to give you credit you really aren't the best player but you more than make up for it with your positivity and friendly attitude towards other players. I like that you don't stop trying and you do get better every time I play with/against you.

You are exactly what any good game community needs, active, friendly people who try hard and push to improve.

Kuro1n
9th Jan 2014, 15:05
The reason for the imbalanced play currently is mostly because of a small playerbase as is to be expected from an "alpha" (more like cbt), I think these issues will resolve themselves as the game at some point goes into either open "alpha" or launches as the teams seems to be swapped around to get a decent balance at least. But when there is a lv 18, two lv 8, a lv 5 and rest level 1 it is hard to get it balanced. It very much depends on the lv 1 players ability to play as a team. This is something you can't balance really at this stage.

Syst3mzero
9th Jan 2014, 15:14
Yeah other than the basic ability to aim the only difference between a good player and a bad player is the ability to use teamwork and if they bothered to read the alpha survival guide so they don't have to spend the entire game asking questions that were answered on the forum.

"how do you fly?"

how many times do I hear this from new players?

Read the guide people!

Kuro1n
9th Jan 2014, 15:29
Well aim does a lot of things and also getting used to the recoil of weapons and such.

lucinvampire
9th Jan 2014, 16:00
Lucin to give you credit you really aren't the best player but you more than make up for it with your positivity and friendly attitude towards other players. I like that you don't stop trying and you do get better every time I play with/against you.

You are exactly what any good game community needs, active, friendly people who try hard and push to improve.

Thank you Syst3m :D you don't know how much that means *hugs*
...and one day I'll get there :D

Varulven
9th Jan 2014, 19:47
The only way to get better though is by playing better players. I get stomped daily, but I try to learn from them.

No, I don't learn.
My problem is: In consiquence of my autism I have poor motor skillz an I suffer from stimulus satiation.
I reached my maximum here :(

Just sitting here...

http://www7.pic-upload.de/10.01.14/5th4lr1z3w9k.jpg

... and waiting for a miracle to come true.

Syst3mzero
10th Jan 2014, 05:09
Corey,

Mention to Square guys that giving us alpha testers some invites so we can target some people who would actually stick around and provide feedback might be a good idea. I know there are people who have been waiting to play for a long time but I know we have people who are part of groups that could really push Nosgoth's stability and balance to extreme breaking points ^^

Def feeling the matchmaking changes though. What are the plans for the release skill ranking system, if you have any yet?


This is a good idea - we've added it to the long and ever-growing list of things we'd like to do in the near future.

+1 to this idea, beats random invites as people are more likely to stick round if they have an existing friend (maybe even IRL friend)

*rubs hands deviously
*thinks about his friend who had never played mouse and keyboard before and the first time he tried he beat all my old LAN buddies mercilessly at UT.

Syst3mzero
10th Jan 2014, 05:36
No, I don't learn.
My problem is: In consiquence of my autism I have poor motor skillz an I suffer from stimulus satiation.
I reached my maximum here :(

Just sitting here...

http://www7.pic-upload.de/10.01.14/5th4lr1z3w9k.jpg

... and waiting for a miracle to come true.

ahhh, disbraxia? yeah can sympathise, I have disbraxia and then to top it off I have Fibromialgia which makes movement painful and gives me days where my disbraxia worsens and becomes almost impossible because i struggle to pick up a cup. top that off with a nice big helping of CFS, add in some minor autism and dyslexia and sprinkle on some sociopath and both long and short term memory problems and you end up with me. I look on the bright side at least despite all my problems my IQ is in the top 2% of the world... its just hard for me to communicate with all those mental barriers and most people find me highly abrasive.

2 tips

1 disbraxia can often be less difficult if you only have to concentrate on 1 hand, I have most in game controls mapped to my mouse so all my keyboard hand has to do is w,a,s,d and my right mouse thumb is the one place i have to concentrate,

2 stimulus satiation, sometimes i find looking in the direction of the monitor but not focusing on it and then letting my mind wander places me into what I believe is the zone that people refer to. its a trace like state, most people will tell you to focus but I don't think they have ever experienced the problem, try instead un-focusing, subconsciously play the game. it takes a lot of practice to hit the state and its not always possible, its why my performance varies so much. on those occasions where you can hit the state you will only be aware of your own performance and not even fully aware of that.

I'm not saying these will work as my stimulus satiation may not be as bad as yours, also the mouse trick really depends on if your disbraxia improves when concentrating on 1 hand as opposed to 2 which isn't always the case, but you may want to try them.

Varulven
10th Jan 2014, 06:36
Fibromyalgia? I have it, too :( I know the pain, the fibro-fog and all the stuff... Thanks for your tipps. The problem is : I have only a really simple mouse^^ Normally I am not a gamer ;) ...and autism is also a thing I can tell of: Asperger's Syndrome.

Syst3mzero
11th Jan 2014, 01:28
Fibromyalgia? I have it, too :( I know the pain, the fibro-fog and all the stuff... Thanks for your tipps. The problem is : I have only a really simple mouse^^ Normally I am not a gamer ;) ...and autism is also a thing I can tell of: Asperger's Syndrome.

Well I'm not going to suggest going out and spending massive amounts on a mouse because it may not help, depends on the severity. do you ever notice that when you use just your dominant hand for something sometimes you see an improvement? fo r example on a good day i type fast and 2 handed, on a bad day I type slow with 2 hands or slightly faster if I just use one hand as I don't have to concentrate on co-ordinating both simultaneously.

Oh man the fibro-fog is the worst, sometimes I struggle to hold down a conversation and then I do the thing you aren't meant to.... dose up on caffeine just because I hate being reduced to a gibbering idiot that forgets what he is saying in the middle of saying it and has to keep asking people to repeat themselves.
I hate the fog more than the pain.

tell me when you have tried the zone, its very much like when you phase out during a conversation but your hands just keep playing. does it work for you too?

Varulven
11th Jan 2014, 15:21
As a shaman I have a lot of practical knowledge about trance like states and meditation. But it is really difficoult to do it while having activities such as playing a game. But I'll try. A few years ago I fell in a trance like state while dancing^^
I just don't understand how shall I unfocus and find my targets in the same time...