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Maximus
14th Jul 2008, 02:01
Hello everyone,

I'm interested in the classification levels in the first game. From the Deus Ex script:


The known security levels are:

* Angel/0A
* Archangel/1B
* Principal/2C
* Domination/5F
* Throne/6G
* Seraphic/8X

Does anyone know if these are grounded in reality, or were completely made up by the developers? Any conspiracy-heads out there seen them on official leaked documents?

Maximus

Tsumaru
14th Jul 2008, 02:24
I think it's all fiction. Perhaps they chose the Christian angelic hierarchy as representational of the whole "playing God" idea with them cloning and nanotechnology and all that. Which paves the way for Paul's little "you need God level access" joke.

Castrol GTX
14th Jul 2008, 07:14
Naw man, its because they're Majestic Twelve. The MJ12 are the 12 zodiac signs, hence the heavenly names.

MJ12 as a group was supposedly made by Truman to investigate Roswell and other scawy alien stories. I don't know/care whats real and whats fake in that whole story, but you can see how it being a scientific government conspiracy fits with the whole idea behind Deus Ex.

Tsumaru
14th Jul 2008, 11:51
The Zodiac and the angel hierarchy are completely different. I don't see the link there. o_O Nor do I see the link between MJ12 and the zodiac.

gamer0004
14th Jul 2008, 14:32
http://theosek.sitesled.com/clearances.html

Maximus
15th Jul 2008, 04:08
Cheers, thanks everyone.

Castrol GTX
15th Jul 2008, 05:17
The Zodiac and the angel hierarchy are completely different. I don't see the link there. o_O Nor do I see the link between MJ12 and the zodiac.

The link between the zodiac and the angel hierarchy is simple. It's not related to the specific signs, but just that the zodiac is in the sky. The sky = the heavens, like in heavenly bodies. I know that sounds corny, but just think of the older meaning of heaven than the white, puffy, christian, good guys go here, heaven.

The Majestic Twelve are the signs of the zodiac. Twelve as in there are 12 of them, and majestic because they're up in the sky.

Tsumaru
15th Jul 2008, 09:52
I'm relatively certain that the 12 is actually from the number of core members (6 civilian scientists, 6 high-ranking military officers), and majestic probably just because they think way too highly of themselves. Unless you have some evidence to suggest that this top secret alleged organisation "existed" just to study astrology?

Castrol GTX
15th Jul 2008, 21:09
Naw man, its because they're Majestic Twelve. The MJ12 are the 12 zodiac signs, hence the heavenly names.

MJ12 as a group was supposedly made by Truman to investigate Roswell and other scawy alien stories. I don't know/care whats real and whats fake in that whole story, but you can see how it being a scientific government conspiracy fits with the whole idea behind Deus Ex.


I'm relatively certain that the 12 is actually from the number of core members (6 civilian scientists, 6 high-ranking military officers), and majestic probably just because they think way too highly of themselves. Unless you have some evidence to suggest that this top secret alleged organisation "existed" just to study astrology?

If there were truly twelve members it makes it more the fitting to name them the MJ12 as a pun on the twelve signs of the zodiac. Regardless, the signs play a part in the name, directly or analogically.

The real-world majestic twelve is a fairly known thing to conspiracy theorists and that whole crowd. You can easily look it up and find info on it, and scanned documents, history etc. Whether it existed or not, or whatever it's intentions were, I don't know or deeply care about. As the story goes, though, they were assembled to study UFO reports which Truman said he believed to be true things. (See now you've got me looking this crap up).

My belief is that UFO sightings, which began to appear just as the cold war started, are the results of experimental aircraft and missiles. The reason for the government to do a "cover-up" is simply because they couldn't leak national defense secrets. Truman's MJ12 (if it existed) would have had something to do with performing, organizing, or covering up those tests.

Tsumaru
16th Jul 2008, 00:04
If there were truly twelve members it makes it more the fitting to name them the MJ12 as a pun on the twelve signs of the zodiac. Regardless, the signs play a part in the name, directly or analogically.
How would that be a pun? It's just them numbering themselves. o_O And I still fail to see how for the latter.


The real-world majestic twelve is a fairly known thing to conspiracy theorists and that whole crowd. You can easily look it up and find info on it, and scanned documents, history etc. Whether it existed or not, or whatever it's intentions were, I don't know or deeply care about. As the story goes, though, they were assembled to study UFO reports which Truman said he believed to be true things. (See now you've got me looking this crap up).

My belief is that UFO sightings, which began to appear just as the cold war started, are the results of experimental aircraft and missiles. The reason for the government to do a "cover-up" is simply because they couldn't leak national defense secrets. Truman's MJ12 (if it existed) would have had something to do with performing, organizing, or covering up those tests.
Which is probably why in DX they brought up these guys with Grays (you know, the aliens?), nanotechnology, bioaugmentation, huge-ass decked out commandos, and other experimental military super-soldier stuff. But then they just decided to try and take over the world too, while they were at it. Hey, DX isn't meant to be 100% on "reality", after all.

But I just don't see the zodiac connection coming up. So what, there are 12 for both of them. Big deal. It's a coincidence. Or are you going to tell me that MJ12 perhaps are also engineering the end of the world in 2012? Or that the fact that there are 12 jurors in a jury is representational of the zodiac too? What about the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles - is that the zodiac again as well? Even the 12 days of Christmas? Perhaps the fact that we have 12 function keys on our keyboards (F1 to F12)?

It may be related, it may not. But right now all you have is the fact that there are 12 for both, and that's fairly sketchy evidence to me. Then from this fairly unconvincing conclusion, you take another leap from zodiac to angelic hierarchy for the classification levels. It would have made more sense if you picked up 12 as in like the 12 apostles of Jesus, which then would sit a lot more neatly with the Christian angels. But even that I would take with a grain of salt.