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El_Bel
7th Jul 2008, 18:34
The best system for melee combat exists. Its simple and realistic.
Its name...
Mount and Blade
and the best part is, it is a freeware so you can try it out.

It would be very good if DX3 team took some ideas for the melee system from that game.
Come on, try it!! And then come back and talk about it!!

Lady_Of_The_Vine
7th Jul 2008, 19:28
So long as the action is swift and silent, I'd be happy to see this kind of function in Deus Ex 3.
Beats just whacking someone on the head with a crowbar, or stun-prodding them, hehe. :D

Blade_hunter
7th Jul 2008, 20:24
I don't want to use a proper melee combat system but some things must be taken from the previous DX episodes, but it's not a melee system it's a damage system

I proposed in a thread about the weaponry some things for melee combat and realism

Our basic weapons are our body (Hands and feets)
for the Hands we must only have nothing in hands or activate a sort of handed combat mode
For the feets or a single foot it can be a button, like the famous mighty foot from Duke Nukem.

For other weapons like swords, crowbars and what ever I thought to give them an attack mode and a defense mode.
If the crowbar have a sufficient amount of Hit points it can stop Most weapons in the game, if or weapon in defense mode loose all HP, the weapon will break and we switch to an other weapon.
If we have a shield and a one handed weapon, the shield can block an attack made against us ...

El_Bel
7th Jul 2008, 21:04
Deus ex melee combat system was very dull.. We could have 10 times the fun we had on luminus path compound if there was a little real sword fight. And i dont think just a block function would make things so much better..

I love swords. I have tried numerous games with sword fights. None was close to mount and blade. The game(when played in first person) is totally immersive. For example if you want to get the sword above your head, you have to look a bit up first, exactly what you would do if you had a real sword!! Try it!! Take a heavy stick and try to get it above your head, you will look a bit up! You are in the battle, you are not just pressing the "fire button".

Also you can make a lot of tricks. If someone is chasing you, you hide behind a wall, and when you see him you relese your sword. With the speed he has from running at full speed, you take a 30% bonus damage, and you kill him.

...
Ah, goddamit, wish i could speak english flawlessly so i could explain to you why this system is so awesome!! Duh, i will make a video for you :p If you like sword fights, play this game.

Blade_hunter
7th Jul 2008, 21:17
What do you think about the Severance melee system for example.
What are the good and the bad point of this combat system if you tried it?

El_Bel
7th Jul 2008, 21:45
To tell you the truth i haven't played it.. I don't like third person games :p

But i will try a small review from what i saw on youtube and read on wikipedia. I hope i dont make a huge mistake.

I dont like the combo system. Awesome moves should not be "unlocked" by pressing "up, up, down, down, right click, left click, right".. This was a good system when the only input we had was a gamepad, and the game world was just a background image.. Now we should be able to create our own "combos" with what the gameplay offers..

Blade_hunter
7th Jul 2008, 21:53
I agree the combo system is the best thing of this game, the worst thing is the fact we can't strafe properly without lock an enemy, for the rest even if we have some magical stuff is realistic, the shields have HP, each kind of weapon have a right mean to use, and thats all for the melee system

jcp28
7th Jul 2008, 22:48
The main problem with this is that melee combat is not what Deus Ex is all about. Deus Ex is a technological game, a game that's set in the near future.
It's not exactly the sort of setting where you'd expect to see swordfights breaking out. You don't even see it in the present day. Even the Dragon's Tooth is made from a nanofile of some sort. Even though it's attack is technically under "Low Tech" that's only because it means the same thing as melee.

Side note here: I had Low Tech upgraded to max, and I killed Walton Simons in Area 51 with about 2 slashes after shooting him once or twice in the face with a shotgun.

El_Bel
8th Jul 2008, 00:03
The main problem with this is that melee combat is not what Deus Ex is all about. Deus Ex is a technological game, a game that's set in the near future.
It's not exactly the sort of setting where you'd expect to see swordfights breaking out. You don't even see it in the present day. Even the Dragon's Tooth is made from a nanofile of some sort. Even though it's attack is technically under "Low Tech" that's only because it means the same thing as melee.

Side note here: I had Low Tech upgraded to max, and I killed Walton Simons in Area 51 with about 2 slashes after shooting him once or twice in the face with a shotgun.

A good melee system isnt about swordfights.. But you are right, i just got a little carried away!! But still it would be cool, if you could play ninja style with swords..

Blade_hunter
8th Jul 2008, 06:59
Hum ... In streets we have guns, but we have baseball bats, golf clubs, knives, crowbars, pipes etc, in the streets we have melee fights,
The police will use batons, tonfas, riot shields, throw some gas grenades when we have a riot.
In most countries the civilians haven't firearms or rare are them that have firearms.
Melee fights always exists, when we haven't ranged weapon, we can throw Molotov cocktails, Gravels, bottles ....

A melee system isn't the most necessary to do this correctly, but the damage system, like when we shot the back of an enemy he will be knocked, when we shot the head it will take several damages...
The Fire mods of melee weapons must allows us to do some things with melee weapons
It can make the melee combat more interesting ...

jcp28
8th Jul 2008, 15:47
^
Even if you have an occasional encounter with some rioting crowd or with a street gang, the main focus would still be on the guns. Would it really provide one with much but a feeling of virtous justice if we got in some big melee fight with some street gang? Even on a dark street corner, there would probab;y have to be at least one or 2 guys with 9mm Besides, I'm not sure how successful restrictions on guns would be in the future.


Skipping all that, adding all that crap about throwing bottles and gravel misses the main point: that getting involved in street fights like the sort you describe doesn't have much importance to the overall setting.

Blade_hunter
8th Jul 2008, 16:38
In the first games, we can throw bottles but the use is more for distraction
If you throw some bottles and make some damages, transform a simple bottle in a molotov cocktail, throw a bottle with flamable liquids can add some stuff, can be a good addition.
In the firsts games I used melee weapons much, the dragon's tooth is a melee weapon I used much.
Some proposals are only an expansion from existing things.
And add some melee stuff don't break the fact you can make the entire game with ranged weapons