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View Full Version : Reasons why DX 1 was so good



Oroles
4th Jul 2008, 17:24
Hi everybody,

First of all I am extremely glad DX series is not dead. In fact I am so glad, that I promise to buy the next DX3 immediately that is launched, regardless the reviews - just not to let the sequel die. Cannot tell you how disappointed I was to learn that Ion Storm in Dallas shut down.

Reading around complaints of DX2 vs. DX1 I can only say: guys, instead of complaining of DX2, do something useful and help EIDOS to learn fast.

Here are my 3 cents for Eidos:

1. The conspiracy story was VERY credible and linked to REAL places and organizations (Liberty Statue, FEMA etc). The more you link it to reality, the more interesting will be. People love to recognize places that are in reality.

Imagine the following statement: 'Man, I am stepping in this place, I know it in details from DX! let me check if in this place is the trick I've seen there!'
In my case, I have visited the catacombs in Paris - how cool to see the entrance almost the same, with the stairs going down in the same manner like in the game. Was an interesting 'deja-vu', making me thinking of other conspiracies... Not sure how many guys that played DX went in Paris and checked the catacombs, but was pretty unique the feeling over there. Especially because the entrance is very non-obvious, so if you don't know what you are looking for, you may spend some time finding it. DX competing with Google maps in a much more interesting way...

2. Several endings are so cool. Make even more if possible so people can enjoy as many as they can. The nirvana will be infinite endings, but coding is not yet there to create random scenarios disturbed by the butterfly effect
3. The overall atmosphere: damn real, immersive. If you use real credible stuff, the hook is very strong (see my comment 1)
4. Intellectual level: very high. Quotes from philosophers, Latin etc helped the intellectual satisfaction. Whoever wants blood on the walls, go to DOOM and forget about DX. I suppose this is how DX can maintain an hard-core fidelity - give something food for thought, not just boring action.
5. Intermezzo levels.: after some action, so nice to have just an interactive level where you do things (upgrades, skills (pls bring back the skills!, steal money, hack something - haha annoyed lady in the ladies room was so cool! Think more of some spice so people have fun (and think of what can be spicey - Ton hotel moaning another cool little detail). Yes life has a lot of aspects and not only mechanistic approaches
6. Reflexive behaviour: characters were little influenced by my actions; in the second DX2 this was pushed further by the modified Omar - remembering me along the game as killing one. This is very realistic and adds another level of complexity - what would be the next level for this?

I stop here for now - I hope the team in DX3 are more enthusiastic then me :) filter all comments from the forum to build the next version!
Cheers from Europe,
Oroles

Kevyne-Shandris
4th Jul 2008, 17:52
Went back into DX (and I need to find the other game disk, as the download version on OpenGL is beyond buggy -- can see double versions of models, and even 3D model holes [missing textures completely]). Played around on the cheatmode (since the save numbering issue limited what level I could play on with previous weapons/mods).

Flew up onto the Statue of Liberty, and peered all around -- no fog whatsoever. The game level design isn't without fault (could see the skybox outline clearly, and it was based on elevation even, so up there the skyline was still above me along with the city outline...lol). It took everything in me to not want to redo the textures so they'd look better, too.

But despite it all, going back in I see a sandbox. A game that took a basic shooter and carved out a niche. A niche that is a blend of a shooter, a RPG, a RTS, and Thief all rolled into one. Can run into a lab and just pick up items (and throw them -- too bad the flasks didn't burst all over in the process!). Can run around and not have things fall off the shelves (a problem with the Havok physics games, it's turned up so high: walking 3 feet away and things bumping by the high gravity or fall over/off all together -- F.E.A.R. and even Oblivion showed this). Items were meant to be interacted with, not just placeholders or for show -- cheesy looking today, but a marvel 8 years ago.

Will DX3 offer the same interactivity (and gravity settings not so tuned a book would bounce and then fall off a shelf, just by passing by)? Will gamers get that sandbox again? Will we get music that reflects the genre (if not Brandon's sound, like maybe Eiffel 65; Crystal Method; heck, even Tomita)?

DX had it all in one package. Even the flaws are overlooked, as the game itself was worth overlooking them.

Can the impossible be done????

Gary_Savage
4th Jul 2008, 22:12
1. The conspiracy story was VERY credible and linked to REAL places and organizations (Liberty Statue, FEMA etc). The more you link it to reality, the more interesting will be. People love to recognize places that are in reality.

Imagine the following statement: 'Man, I am stepping in this place, I know it in details from DX! let me check if in this place is the trick I've seen there!'
In my case, I have visited the catacombs in Paris - how cool to see the entrance almost the same, with the stairs going down in the same manner like in the game. Was an interesting 'deja-vu', making me thinking of other conspiracies... Not sure how many guys that played DX went in Paris and checked the catacombs, but was pretty unique the feeling over there. Especially because the entrance is very non-obvious, so if you don't know what you are looking for, you may spend some time finding it. DX competing with Google maps in a much more interesting way...


I got the same feeling in New York. As soon as I saw Castle Clinton, in Battery Park, I looked to the left, so see if those tall pillar like slabs were there. Once there, I found the statue of the eagle almost exactly as I had expected. Then, I found that the main difference b/w reality and the game (as regards Castle Clinton) was that the real one had old canons with it. I even found the boat dock right there.

As soon as I got off the boat, to see Lady Liberty, I first made my way to the other end of the island, to look for the other boat dock. The structure of the lady, and the castle around her, were not the same proportions as in the game, but the game did a good job. I guess the differences there:
1) the DX version had the UNATCO HQ
2) the real version had a souvenir shop
3) the real version did not have anything obstructing the view of one boat dock, from another.

As soon as I got back to Battery Park I looked around, and sure enough, there was an underground train station, with the same, solitary looking entrance; though slightly further off from Castle Clinton, than I had expected.

A friend asked me if reality had done a good job of modeling the DX world.

Now, if only there was a place that looked like the research lobby in MJ12 HQ.

I did find a company HQ (Corning Inc.), though, that looks reminiscent of a Budhist temple, provided you approach it from the right direction (owing to its architecture). Come to think of it, I learned of Corning because of its research endeavours, and right in front of its HQ is glass globe: at first sight, it reminded me of that 3D globe projection that you get to see at Vandenburg, some place outside of where Gary Savage is holding out.

EDIT: Now, a company HQ with a globe... hmmm, the only thing missing is a giant hand. It would have been creepier, had this globe been some miles away, at the company's primary research facility. The sunlight, glinting off the globe, would have made the place a city on a hill, visible from far below, in the Corning valley.

gettrix
7th Jul 2008, 10:56
You said it all:
-cerebral story like never before or after
-although not open-ended but still with a great deal of freedom
-RPG like character/skill development
-interaction with the world
-side switching
-amazing atmosphere

Deus Ex was a lot better than Deus Ex 2, abandoning RPG-like character/skills development was a huge mistake, as well as unique ammo for everything and the whole game was dumbed up, I hope Deus Ex 3 will be more like the original.

Btw, does anyone know in what graphics engine will Deus Ex 3 be? I hope it will at least have Half Life 2 quality of water, it's just bizarre how every game after Half Life 2 has poorer quality of water like Half Life 2 never happened.

DXeXodus
7th Jul 2008, 12:55
The game engine for Deus Ex 3 will be the new Crystal Dynamics engine which is being used in the new Tomb Raider games, therefore it is an in house engine for Eidos. It seems to have some nice water effects. Go check out the info on the Tomb Raider site :)

I_R3m3mb3r_G3x
14th Jul 2008, 03:22
I wonder if this will suit:

It's name should be "Doomed BioRainbowSplinterQuake-Life Faction 6-51: Legendary Edition Fantasy MCCCXXXVII with a Caramel Coating" and an original plot!
:lmao:
A cookie to all who name every single reference!
And a cake to whoever translates the Roman numerals in their head without help!

Cap
14th Jul 2008, 06:00
I wonder if this will suit:

It's name should be "Doomed BioRainbowSplinterQuake-Life Faction 6-51: Legendary Edition Fantasy MCCCXXXVII with a Caramel Coating" and an original plot!
:lmao:
A cookie to all who name every single reference!
And a cake to whoever translates the Roman numerals in their head without help!

nice :)

btw its 1337 hehe:thumbsup:

pauldenton
15th Jul 2008, 09:57
I believe one of the most overlooked things that made DX great was that it was a long game.

It had the time to absorb you into it's atmosphere and world. It had the length of time to become part of your life for a memorable period.

not just some finish it in 6 hours and forget it rubbish that they try and pass of as value these days.

Several times over a few weeks i would lie there at night trying to think of solutions to a set part in the game, or wondering how the plot will pan out, who is on my side? what's it all about? It becomes part of your life and why many are here now, you don't get that with the 6 hour wonders.

Of course the usual excuse is do you want a long game or a great game - this is nonsense, as DX proved.

If DX 3 is a 6 hour wonder chances are it will be forgotten in the time it took to play it, a short game could not match up to the original dx.

DXeXodus
15th Jul 2008, 10:29
^^ I couldn't agree more.

Oroles
15th Jul 2008, 12:18
Hi again,

Just to continue with my comments - DX2 had also some interesting features that personally I liked:

# graphics was improved - however the DX1 was somehow more simple but nicely abstract; thus a trade off between better quality and some level of abstractisation may have an interesting impact;
# Biomods: in DX2 was really cool that i could switch back and forth with the black market biomods - and then decide to go for other types of biomods; i think this was a novel feature where to change my set of skills as the game develops; i'd love to see it there again
# the Illuminati paratroopers were really cool
# loved the Omar race :suggestion: why not the next Denton not to be allowed to evolve with super-biomods into an Omar/Illuminati in order to infiltrate between them? I'd love to see how it feels to be an Omar/Illuminati ;)

Until next time...
Oroles

DXeXodus
15th Jul 2008, 12:45
# Biomods: in DX2 was really cool that i could switch back and forth with the black market biomods - and then decide to go for other types of biomods; i think this was a novel feature where to change my set of skills as the game develops; i'd love to see it there again

I personally don't like the fact that biomods are reversible in DX2. I would much rather have the choice be a permanent one. It makes one think more about the choices that you make. It also adds replay value because you want to try the game again with a different set of biomods.

But I love the idea of going down the 'becoming an OMAR' route :)

gamer0004
15th Jul 2008, 15:29
# the Illuminati paratroopers were really cool


Ah yes, the good old paratroopers...



There were no paratroopers

Fen
17th Jul 2008, 19:05
# Biomods: in DX2 was really cool that i could switch back and forth with the black market biomods - and then decide to go for other types of biomods; i think this was a novel feature where to change my set of skills as the game develops; i'd love to see it there again


I have to disagree. RPG's are about making a character and making them unique. You make choices and you live by them.

The problem is that many people will play this game with the mindset that they must make their character perfectly. So if they make a mistake, they have to go back to start again, and this of course frustrates them as they want to continue in the srory-line, not repeat.

This is something that you should try to fight against, because it makes the experience that much more enjoyable when you do. Because you are your character, along with his awsomeness and his flaws. You feel more immersed in the game. Your also not rediculously powerful which can often ruin games.

Oym
17th Jul 2008, 20:21
I agree with Fen for the same reasons .

Blade_hunter
17th Jul 2008, 20:24
Yeah I agree, In DX 1 we have to purchase our upgrades carefully and use them wisely, like the skills when we spent our skillpoints, in DX 2 we loose this interest, we have the upgrades too quickly and some of them are skills before then become biomods (neural interface = hack skill)
The rewritable biomods aren't a bad thing, but the fact we have them too quickly make the choices with less importance...

Oym
17th Jul 2008, 20:57
Not to mention that there are less augs than in the first deus ex ..

Is it logical for a new supposed all-better guinea-pig years later JC Denton ?

AaronJ
18th Jul 2008, 00:09
# Biomods: in DX2 was really cool that i could switch back and forth with the black market biomods - and then decide to go for other types of biomods; i think this was a novel feature where to change my set of skills as the game develops; i'd love to see it there again

Yes, I liked that too. It was bringing the aug choice to the next level, instead of saving the game every time you got an aug canister so you could go back.

Oym
18th Jul 2008, 08:48
There's no need to go back if you're careful about it ..

Fen
18th Jul 2008, 11:59
Yes, I liked that too. It was bringing the aug choice to the next level, instead of saving the game every time you got an aug canister so you could go back.

Your the player my post was aimed at.
Why would you save the game when you are faced with a choice?
All you do is ruin replayability.

A choice is a choice. Its supposed to be based on what your knowledge is at the point of the game, not "I know the consequences of both choices, and I think this choice is better".

You might as well get a walkthrough and have a look at the spoilers while your at it. All your doing is ruining the game for yourself. Sure if your playing an online game, choosing the correct choices to maximise your character's abilities will pay off, but this is a single player game. To add to that, this is deus ex. There is no right or wrong way to go about this game. You should play the game the way its meant to be played. You will have a lot more fun that way, and you'll make the game much more replayable.

Oym
18th Jul 2008, 14:26
Not to mention that Deus Ex is not about having the strongest character ..

It's true we can make mistakes about augs if we are not careful ...

So ?

Is it so awful to live with ? Does it ruin the game if it is just a little ?

I don't think so .. :rolleyes:

In my opinion , Dx1's augmentation system was terrific , however with IW :(

CarloGervasi
18th Jul 2008, 16:42
It was a lot of little things, but the big thing was the narrative and overall atmosphere. In Invisible War, I felt the narrative was still pretty good (though not as good), but the atmosphere was just gone completely. Walking around a real life Battery Park and Hell's Kitchen was much, much better of an experience than walking around a shiny enclave talking to cyborgs.

Also, the complexity really helped, and I can't really explain that one, but it did. There's just something about actually having to put in the door codes, and actually having to log in to computers, and all that stuff that really gave it a special feel.

Oym
18th Jul 2008, 16:45
I believe it's called liberty of action :) .

AaronJ
19th Jul 2008, 19:03
I still think, or I still know that aug switching is the right way to go.

Oym
19th Jul 2008, 20:59
It's ok , we won't make a big thing out of it ..

Or at least I won't :D

Fen
20th Jul 2008, 05:13
I still think, or I still know that aug switching is the right way to go.

Well I know that it isnt the way to go. So there :rasp:

serrath
20th Jul 2008, 06:45
I believe aug choices were made to be permanent because this would force players to tackle challenges differently based on how they created their character. A very good gameplay mechanic and again, good for replayability.

I cannot emphasize enough how important it is that the game is long. It should not seem strained or drawn-out in the plot, but surely a Deus Ex game should far exceed the lifespan of a typical shooter.

Kevyne-Shandris
22nd Jul 2008, 15:41
I cannot emphasize enough how important it is that the game is long. It should not seem strained or drawn-out in the plot, but surely a Deus Ex game should far exceed the lifespan of a typical shooter.

Morrowind length (ain't happening with a FPS, but I sure can wish!).

As for the augs: a good compromise would be an ability to switch out an aug upon arriving to a HQ; or if you're allowed to create your own augs to replace it (thus creating a challenge, and again, careful thinking of what to create with little available resources).