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View Full Version : Prepare to get the hell scared out of you...



AaronJ
28th Jun 2008, 20:40
I've been thinking about this post all day, scared me to death. This is a post by the user Coliphorbs expressing his opinions, but its scary because of the probability of this actually happening. Here it is:


DX3 will not be a sequel - nor a prequel. It's been 6 years since the release of the last game in the series and Eidos' target audience is, for the most part, fresh and completely ignorant of the original games. They're not making this game exclusively for fans of the original - that'll hardly make a worthy revenue.

They will want to introduce them to the DX setting without expecting them to've played long, complex games from 8 years ago. It will most likely be a game set in the same universe, probably, and have it's share of ties and references to the original games (hopefully it will ignore IW).

I suppose that pits the chances of it being a prequel higher than a (direct) sequel, but I'm thinking it will be contemporary - or a sequel by name and theme, rather than story.

Would they be that stupid? Is it as probable as it seems? Its so damn probable, but it would suck so much.

--On another note, after the completely amazingly awesomely amazing announcement of DIABLO III (!!!), I can feel the spotlight being taken away. GOOD TIME FOR THOSE SUMMER UPDATES THAR MONTREAL...

Personally I'm psyched for both, unless the above "sequel by theme" thing is true, in which case I will crawl into a hole and die.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Jun 2008, 21:43
Yeah, I read that quote.

Umm, but I don't understand why you have started a new thread. :confused:
Why didn't you just reply within the thread that the quote was already in?

Coliphorbs
28th Jun 2008, 21:56
Well, I'm sorry for scaring you! :)

The "sequel by theme/name" thing could be either great or terrible, really.

The worst case would be what happened to Fallout recently - FO3 is going to tarnish everything and anything that was Fallout and it's sequel.

I still think it can be pulled off, though. I just can't think of any way to continue Deus Ex's original storyline in a direct manner that doesn't require immense and irrational suspense of disbelief - IW was bad enough with it's "everything happened!" idea. A story based around the development of nanotechnological augmentations and the spreading 'shadow government' of the old institutions such as the Illumaniti, Skull & Bones, Freemasons and the like - it can happen before, during, or even after the events of DX. I dunno about IW - as I said before, there's a limit to how much you can bend and twist what looks to be a definite ending.

The question is, how many parts of the conspiracy can they introduce for us to explore that we don't already know about? DX, in spirit, is largely about the unknown. Not knowing who to trust, not knowing the right from the wrong, not knowing the truth.

It will be completely ridiculous to re-introduce the same plot devices such as Icarus, Daedalus, Bob Page, FEMA... Not only they won't do it because they don't expect their new audience to be familiar with them, but because there's nothing left to find out about them. They've been completely figured out. All these theories about playing Paul Denton on his missions to Hong Kong or some guy in VersaLife or whatever just won't happen - not just because the element of surprise isn't available to the older players, but because you are essentially robbing the newer players from another DX trademark - an open-ending(s). I know that if I were part of a newer audience I'd feel as if I've been "duped" into a resolution I hold no sentiments to and wasn't a part of because I haven't played the originals. Essentially, I'd feel as if I was playing somebody else's show.

Are we going to play a nano-augmented person? Probably. That's one trademark they won't be getting rid of, so that's one lead we got, at least - the conclusion one may derive from that is, that unless Walton Simons and the Dentons weren't the first augmented people around (despite all the evidence introduced...), it will most definitely happen after the original DX.

Now, judging by the teaser shots, the knowledge that augmented people "walk among us" has become widespread. There's clearly more augmented people than just the three from the original DX - and we haven't been told of any big riots (seemingly violent) concerning the matter in IW. Yet, the riots in the pictures look a lot more modern-day (DX1), rather than futuristic (DX:IW).

I realize the riots could concern mechs, rather than nanos. The robotic arm on the woman definitely suggests this is the case. But then, why would the vote box say Biopolitic vote (biopolitics refer to biotechnology - and mecha-augs are not it)? Keep in mind that the 2027 date was removed in the HD trailer, so this could potentially happen after nano-augmentations were somehow made known to the public and disputes over it's moralities spread (i.e. after the original DX).

Could they be making a sequel that takes place between DX and IW? Maybe even ignoring IW? I sure hope so.

-

Kevyne-Shandris
28th Jun 2008, 23:01
Well, I'm sorry for scaring you! :)

The "sequel by theme/name" thing could be either great or terrible, really.

The worst case would be what happened to Fallout recently - FO3 is going to tarnish everything and anything that was Fallout and it's sequel.


I think EIDOS understands that DX fans are a tad more "sensitive" to the storyline and "look and feel" of the original. Yes, we can't go back, but I really don't believe they'll repeat the riot after DX:IW (that no publisher would prefer to repeat) -- I was here during the tail end of that release, and fans were NOT happy. Bioshock's release woes didn't even compare.

The DX fan base, especially the old diehards, can understand changes that is necessary. These are new devs who have big shoes to fill, and we know they're not Ion Storm. They have their own path to strike forth. BUT, some things are essential -- one of them is JC. JC is Deus Ex if you look at it. Devs today like to make the pointman some faceless guy probably because of such issues (they don't have the freedom to do more as they're stuck with a known entity -- I don't understand how that is in an issue, can you imagine Tomb Raider without Laura??), and that disconnect makes it's easier to go into all tangents (look at the F.E.A.R. franchise -- oh, what a mess!). Yet, JC will have to be in the role, hopefully the lead role, as that homecoming will soldify this fan base that was fractured over DX:IW (it'll be a great good faith move on EIDOS part). The world can change considerably more if fans had JC back.

Back in 2003 a sequel was more fresh, and Alex could've fill the role easier. 2008, DX:IW, no way. We need a lead of the past to connect with the future (like with a marriage, something old with the new).

Then theres other issues about the other characters we have come to like and love. The other Alex; Jamie; Jock; and Tracer Tong. This simply can't be like F.E.A.R. and they all die off (wiping the slate clean). Eight years is a very long time to identify with them, they just can't be destroyed by some evil entity (that's like a stab in the heart -- waiting for DX3 -- and they're going to all die off).

Point I'm making is the characters are related to the world. Characters are gone, the world isn't Deus Ex. Destroy Deus Ex, I guess DX will be the longest mod project in gaming history!

But I think EIDOS and the Montreal devs understand. The teaser didn't have to have the old main theme or a JC like voice over if they didn't care. They did so, and at least, for the moment, the fans got a taste of what we've been wanting for almost a decade. Can't say what they plan, but that path is the right one, and the right one will return us to the fold again (all of us who went to the four winds in disgust and all).

Deus Ex isn't just any game. It's not Half-Life or Quake or Oblivion. It's a rare game -- one of a kind now even -- so the fans are v-e-r-y picky about the treasure. Any peep about DX3 being radically different, it'll spook us. I'm not getting my hopes up -- I'm craving the game like no other is history -- but I'm not going through that DX:IW fiasco again. That was a dark, dark, evil time.

Let's keep hope alive.

Blade_hunter
28th Jun 2008, 23:22
Could they be making a sequel that takes place between DX and IW? Maybe even ignoring IW? I sure hope so.

-

Thats was one of my proposals in the prequel/sequels posts

But this quote makes me worried about the future of this game, because this part of the quote is that makes me more worried than the fact we don't continue the storyline

"It's been 6 years since the release of the last game in the series and Eidos' target audience is, for the most part, fresh and completely ignorant of the original games. They're not making this game exclusively for fans of the original - that'll hardly make a worthy revenue.

They will want to introduce them to the DX setting without expecting them to've played long, complex games from 8 years ago."

What this thing will be say, we've got the same cheap game like IW short with a cheap gameplay, uh?
Even something like bioshock,
This public is more young players and non gamers, than experienced players like us...
Will they throw the original concept and keep only the biomods ?
No games are made exclusively for fans from a title but forget the fans it's a big mistake, that was the same commercial politic of DX 2 "make the game more accessible for everyone and make a console game with a cheap gameplay"
I'm sorry but make games without true innovations that's a big mistake, if DX 2 have a good and innovative gameplay I don't think this game will be a fail even if the story can be an illogical sequel, because we drop some effects from some events, but they reduce the good gameplay parts of the original game, I've take a look to the mod shifter and some features of this mod, And I think if DX 2 will make the same things as this mod it can be a great thing because DX 2 proposes some little good things and remove the bests things of DX like the skills for example.
What they did with the suits of DX they correct them instead of delete them.

Change some rules is better than delete, because it removes possibilities and the rich content of a game.
Simplify and allow an easier access is different
Simplify is the fact we reduce, delete some things
Allow a better access is find a mean to give an easy access to a complex and rich content.
Crysis make a great thing on the weapons customization and the suit mods for example.
Deus ex have clean menus, the informations are on the right places, and the game is easy to handle. even if the things aren't perfect in the biomods side

Kevyne-Shandris
29th Jun 2008, 00:48
DX:IW failed for many reasons, and it wasn't just "unified ammo" and the XBox UI. Warren Specter went overboard trying to be innovative, and the "God" killed the machine, basically. That was a bitter, bitter time. :shudder:

But where is that quote from? Please don't say EIDOS. That's like a knife through the heart if it's official.

AaronJ
29th Jun 2008, 01:02
Its from a user don't worry.

So, have you guys heard about Diablo III?

Kevyne-Shandris
29th Jun 2008, 01:10
Its from a user don't worry.

So, have you guys heard about Diablo III?

All over the MMO forum I'm on. Never played that game (just isn't my cup of tea). Went with the BioWare and AOE series back then.

zemegauser
29th Jun 2008, 03:35
This ain't a bad idea, a different story, you would have to settle in again, go through conspiracies, would be cool if they kept the same mechanics as DX1 but have a different story, like still it would be deus ex universe, but set in some other places with whole different conflicts, Europe for example. No little cameos or the sort, just completely fresh. It could work if done well.

Just thought about this, what if you play in an alternate reality of sorts, and you have to stop augmentations from being released to the market, or stop something from happening. What would you say about no augmentations but keep the skills?

Tsumaru
29th Jun 2008, 05:28
So, have you guys heard about Diablo III?

Heard; orgasmed.

Deus Ex rocked my world, but Diablo II has been my world.

jordan_a
29th Jun 2008, 15:50
I can feel the spotlight being taken away.That's the best thing that can happen to Eidos Montreal, they need to work peacefully and at their pace.

Blade_hunter
29th Jun 2008, 16:37
DX:IW failed for many reasons, and it wasn't just "unified ammo" and the XBox UI. Warren Specter went overboard trying to be innovative, and the "God" killed the machine, basically. That was a bitter, bitter time. :shudder:

But where is that quote from? Please don't say EIDOS. That's like a knife through the heart if it's official.

I agree it isn't only because we have the uni ammo and a horrible HUD, yes but a game without innovations and with the fact they remove the DX advances make this game a fail.

DX was a great game because this game was an advance in matter of gameplay and for the gaming.

The fact we can carry a crate and put it where we want was a sort of advance, the old games like HL and unreal allow only the fact we can push the crate. and theses crates exists on different sizes and we can use barrels to.

DX innovates by the gameplay because we can pass each situation with different tactics instead of many games, even if the gameplay is well inspired by SS2 (Warren Spector is the dad of this game too after all); the gameplay of SS2 was enhanced when they create DX, because on SS2 the only stealth part is the fact we must avoid or destroy quickly a Cam.
The skills can be upgraded everywhere in the game, In SS2 we must go to a sort of terminal to upgrade our abilities, knowledge, psipowers and OS when we have received cybermodules.
In DX they replace the Cybermodules by Biocannisters and XP for more logic, after all upgrade our knowledge by electronic devices we can find in a bean, a crate or by an accomplishment is a bit strange. In this point I prefer the DX view
DX was the first FPS with a realistic weapon work and the modularity of them was new and inspired manygames
The fact we can convert a simple pistol to a deadly compact sniper was a great thing
The nanites of SS2 was replaced by the money, the tools and the keyring
My disappointment in DX when I discover SS2 is on the suits work but it's a little inconvenient only (In SS2 we have only armors and an hazard suit)....

In DX 2 the only advances was minor or made by games before
Secondary fire, the fact we can replace a biomod in an occupied slot, the unique weapons, the weapon converters (most of them can be replaced by ammo if the old system was keep ), better physics (but this is more a technical advance than the fact this is a DX 2 advance)
Minor advances and major suppressions makes frustration I think.
Even if I take the game alone it's not exceptional as the first game on its time...

minus0ne
29th Jun 2008, 16:54
Yeah, I read that quote.

Umm, but I don't understand why you have started a new thread. :confused:
Why didn't you just reply within the thread that the quote was already in?
GlobalNode has to create useless topic-less topics at least twice every week, preferably with nonsensical and dramatic names, or he ceases to exist (or so he thinks), I thought that was clear by now :p

Lady_Of_The_Vine
29th Jun 2008, 16:57
LOL, yeah... I know now. :D

Kevyne-Shandris
29th Jun 2008, 18:52
The fact we can carry a crate and put it where we want was a sort of advance, the old games like HL and unreal allow only the fact we can push the crate. and theses crates exists on different sizes and we can use barrels to.

Crates; trash cans :D; flasks; food -- the environment was meant to be touched and picked up.

Loved taking crates (using the aug to help) to carry to make crate ladders to get into air conditioning shafts w-a-y above. Or getting to a 2nd floor to maybe bypass a patrol (my mini-game was to complete the game with the least ammo used). Like hitting crates to get goodies (Pinata city!). The game begged you to see it, touch it, pick it up, and even destroy it.

Played F.E.A.R.. All those crates and cardboard boxes in warehouses. Can't pick them up. Can't stack them. They were there as filler. Why couldn't I get up on the platforms for a good snipering position by climbing crates/boxes?? So linear it's pathetic (don't devs even play DX anymore to get the ideas that are so good??).

Interaction with the environment and even gear sets DX apart from the rest. Go take your tear gas cans and climb the Statue of Liberty with them, even (imagine if a clever dev added some bonus [or easter egg] up there for truly exploring the map, too). Gamers can just flat out play in the game and have a little fun -- not run and get it all over in 5hrs.

AaronJ
29th Jun 2008, 18:55
GlobalNode has to create useless topic-less topics at least twice every week, preferably with nonsensical and dramatic names, or he ceases to exist (or so he thinks), I thought that was clear by now :p

This topic clearly asks a question and deals with the very real issue that they would screw up this bad.

Kevyne-Shandris
29th Jun 2008, 19:01
This topic clearly asks a question and deals with the very real issue that they would screw up this bad.

But when you do this quote thingie like that, add the posters name. This isn't April's Fool's day or Halloween.

AaronJ
29th Jun 2008, 19:02
I don't care for your names.

Kevyne-Shandris
29th Jun 2008, 19:12
I don't care for your names.

Care about the game then? Or is that too difficult?

AaronJ
30th Jun 2008, 02:30
Nothing is too difficult for Deus Ex.

I can feel the heat of a flame war brewing. We are now on good terms.

v.dog
30th Jun 2008, 07:43
There is no need for flames here. Nothing in this topic raises any reason to launch personal attacks.

Scadvid is right in this tho', GN; quotes without citations can't be given the proper weighting (or even be considered valid).

If the quote is from EIDOS, then we have every reason to be afraid. If not, and it's simply a poster's opinion, then we can muse over whether it is likely to be the case, and what we would do as a result.

There's no point in discussing something when we don't fully understand what the topic is about.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
30th Jun 2008, 08:54
Yes, no flaming necessary. :)

Oh, and agree with you v.dog, that quote should list the source. It was originally posted by member, colibthorbs, in this thread:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=763278#post763278

It could be misconstrued. It isn't clear to me whether or not it is colibthorb's personal thoughts or whether he got it direct from Eidos? :confused:

Coliphorbs
30th Jun 2008, 09:15
Those were my own thoughts. Nothing to panic about.

jd10013
30th Jun 2008, 22:11
DX3 will not be a sequel - nor a prequel. It's been 6 years since the release of the last game in the series and Eidos' target audience is, for the most part, fresh and completely ignorant of the original games. They're not making this game exclusively for fans of the original - that'll hardly make a worthy revenue.

They will want to introduce them to the DX setting without expecting them to've played long, complex games from 8 years ago. It will most likely be a game set in the same universe, probably, and have it's share of ties and references to the original games (hopefully it will ignore IW).

I suppose that pits the chances of it being a prequel higher than a (direct) sequel, but I'm thinking it will be contemporary - or a sequel by name and theme, rather than story.

I don't see any problem with that at all. Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but all its saying to me is DX3 will have Dx features but the story, characters, and setting may be entirely different. To me, it was always the gameplay that made DX what it was. Not unatco, not the NSF, not JC and Paul. Now don't get me wrong, the story and characters were great, but thats just writing. What I always loved about DX was the gameplay. I loved the large sandbox maps. I loved the alternate ways to achieve things. I like the hidden areas, I liked optional missions, I liked the plot twists, I liked the varying weapons and ammo, I liked area damage, I like head shots, I liked skills, and so on, and so on.

I don't think DX3 has to be a "the continuing adventures of the Denton brothers" game to be good. In fact, the denton story probably is a bit tired, and something new would be nice.

Blade_hunter
30th Jun 2008, 23:47
Yes, no flaming necessary. :)

Oh, and agree with you v.dog, that quote should list the source. It was originally posted by member, colibthorbs, in this thread:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=763278#post763278

It could be misconstrued. It isn't clear to me whether or not it is colibthorb's personal thoughts or whether he got it direct from Eidos? :confused:

I don't remember to see this post but thanks god (and MissDenton) but this quote will affraid me if it was a true EIDOS quote

Kevyne-Shandris
1st Jul 2008, 00:02
Nothing is too difficult for Deus Ex.

I can feel the heat of a flame war brewing. We are now on good terms.

Because there's a lot of trolling going on. Much like when kids learn there's no teacher in the room.

Posting something like that, and knowing it would get folks riled, is like yelling fire in the theater. You knew it would would recieved like that, and even egged it on further ("I don't care about names"), when asked to add the poster's name.

You wanted the flame war, it fizzled, but you're called on the carpet for trying to ignite one.

AaronJ
1st Jul 2008, 01:09
Would the ghost of Xcom lock this please. We're getting to the point where we have bad metaphors.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
1st Jul 2008, 06:52
Would the ghost of Xcom lock this please. We're getting to the point where we have bad metaphors.

The over-use of metaphors can be not just bad, but extremely boring. :D

HouseOfPain
1st Jul 2008, 07:10
Before he locks it, I have to say, I am laughing my ass off, I have never seen ANYONE use as many metaphors and similes as Scadvid. :nut: :rasp: :lol: :lmao:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
1st Jul 2008, 12:36
Before he locks it, I have to say, I am laughing my ass off, I have never seen ANYONE use as many metaphors and similes as Scadvid. :nut: :rasp: :lol: :lmao:

LOL :D

Lady_Of_The_Vine
1st Jul 2008, 13:21
I don't remember to see this post but thanks god (and MissDenton) but this quote will affraid me if it was a true EIDOS quote

Well, yeah, it isn't a true Eidos quote - so HUGE sigh of relief. :cool:

Kevyne-Shandris
1st Jul 2008, 13:35
Would the ghost of Xcom lock this please. We're getting to the point where we have bad metaphors.

1/2/3/4 (like clockwork even).

I wish the "ghost" of Xcom would delete the thread, since it's obvious now it's just troll bait -- it must be, since kids don't even understand there weren't any metaphors to begin with. :lol:

Now I'm here for business, not babysitting. So if you want your diapers changed, you're on your own. }:>

AaronJ
1st Jul 2008, 18:05
Original post edited. Scadvid shut the **** up.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
1st Jul 2008, 20:52
Original post edited. Scadvid shut the **** up.

Thanks for editing original post, GlobalNode. :cool:
At least people won't get confused now. :D

Keir
2nd Jul 2008, 08:58
Hi everyone.

First off, I'd like to apologise for the Mod Lite™ approach to this forum of late. Changes are a-coming, so bear with us. Announcements soon!

So, I'd like to thank you all for keeping it relatively courteous in the meantime. Much appreciated, and thanks for your patience.

In future if there are any issues, or people have any suggestions, please feel free to fire me over a PM :thumbsup:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
2nd Jul 2008, 11:10
Nice to meet you! :)

Yeah, the vast majority of members here have been keeping things positive and intelligent on the boards; its all cool. :cool:

By mutual request of most members here, this particular thread may as well be locked as it has lost its original intention. Now it is just full of mindless spam and flaming from the one member. Thank you. :)

Keir
2nd Jul 2008, 13:19
Well, the crap has been deleted. As this thread has been completely derailed and is clearly about something else, I thought I'd leave this open to give people the right to reply after my intervention. Purely so another thread doesn't get ruined.

I'll monitor it and close it shortly though.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
2nd Jul 2008, 14:46
No problems and THANK YOU very much for deleting the crap. :thumbsup:

AaronJ
2nd Jul 2008, 14:59
The forum will live to fight another day. Hooray for our liberators.