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Epok__
28th Jun 2008, 12:24
I wanted to talk about something (another...) that I didn't liked in DX:IW...

In DX, you sometime find logins and passwords, or codes for digicodes, but even if you didn't knew the code, you got the interface.
In DX:IW, you know the code or you do not know it, but that's all, no possibilities of trying.

Well, I explain myself upon an example:

In DX, I remember when in the MJ12 building, i found a 2-digit digicode...
I thought : "Well, only 100 possibilities, i'll try it..."
And the number was "12", so I found it quickly (I just noticed that it may be linked with MJ12 => code is 12, lol)

In DX:IW, when you do not know the code, it's impossible to try it...
Same, maybe you do not want to hack the interface, but since you got the ability, you hack the system...

It's another thing I would like that DX3 follows DX1...



Well, sorry for my bad english and thank you for reading me.

Tsumaru
28th Jun 2008, 12:45
I absolutely loved physically typing in logins/passwords and punching in the PIN for stuff. It just had this great immersive effect. I never attempted to randomly guess an access code, but sometimes I would go through my datavault and it would have a few different codes and I couldn't figure out which one applied. So I had to try each. This might have been frustrating for some people (actually, it was kinda frustrating for me too - especially when I found out they were ALL wrong one time!), but I found it was a lot more realistic.

I agree, seeing something like this come back would be fantastic.

AaronJ
28th Jun 2008, 13:01
Its the same thing with the DX1 port to the PS2. It had to be simplified for consoles.

v.dog
29th Jun 2008, 05:33
Here's the easy answer, you can try to find the code through a 'brute force' hack, but if you get the code wrong three times, you set off an alarm.

jordan_a
29th Jun 2008, 15:53
It had to be simplified for consoles.
As simple as that. Let's hope they make two versions for DX3.

Blade_hunter
29th Jun 2008, 16:44
They can keep the fact we can enter logs on consoles by choose the letters, symbols at the same manner as we can enter the cheats in TUROK or enter a name in games ...
a virtual keyboard isn't hard to use ...

jordan_a
29th Jun 2008, 16:49
I do agree. a virtual keyboard for consoles would be clever, players are used to that now.

Kevyne-Shandris
29th Jun 2008, 18:05
Wonder, since technology has changed so much since 2000, if the passwords will be 64 characters/numbers and has to be case matched too (like in RL)? That in 40 years everything would be randomly generated, so no cheating trying to look up the password on a walkthrough, too?

The hacking/cracking side of DX3 could be a mini game in itself. Something similiar to the lockpicking Obivilion used to open chests and doors. With an alarm timer to get in and out as fast as you can (for stealth players it would be a blast).

Heck, maybe we'll get a chance to even setup (and maintain) a functional network (you name it, nano-bots; computer node; etc.), too. It can go down at random, and has to be fixed (maybe on extreme mode, so casual players don't have to get bogged down on more complex play, but cyperpunk fans can goto town), and have to set assignments, etc. That would help when replaying the game for the 20th time (something else to do).

AaronJ
29th Jun 2008, 19:03
As simple as that. Let's hope they make two versions for DX3.

AND THE CHANCES ARE.......

I'd like to think 100%.

Blade_hunter
29th Jun 2008, 20:44
We have a topic about the hack / lockpick, and I don't think minigames are the favourite thing of some persons here, but I prefer to put the link here:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=755850#post755850

Anyway they must do console and PC versions, but if the console and the PC game are close in therms of gameplay that is better, but the controls must be different of course I don't have precise examples but I think we have games with both versions and with a console feeling (controls made for console used to a PC version)

In the game Sin and Wages of Sin we can type the passwords to get an access to a informations, open a door, etc ....
FPS before DX have this kind of feature and it's more interesting than put a computer or a keypad with the same mean of working as a simple switch.

Tsumaru
30th Jun 2008, 14:13
That in 40 years everything would be randomly generated, so no cheating trying to look up the password on a walkthrough, too?

Realistic, but how frustrating would it be if you're the person who *just can't find* where that code was? Walkthroughs exist for people who are struggling with the game. Nobody forces you to use them. I would never play a game from a company which makes walkthroughs unusable in parts.

Fen
30th Jun 2008, 16:46
Typing in the codes and logins added a MASSIVE amount of immersion to the game. I full support it in dx3 and hope we can implement even more methods that makes the actions that we perform in the game more true to what one would actually have to do if they were in that siuation.

gh0s7
30th Jun 2008, 19:53
Personally, I'd prefer if the player could do it in either way: type it all or just press the button in the interface to automatize the process. :)

Of course, it could be problematic; if the player has, say, six entries in his/hers/its :p "journal" for a possible valid code/login, it would lead to six buttons. Or one button with a window popping up questioning which one does the player wants to "try"...

Kevyne-Shandris
30th Jun 2008, 20:25
Realistic, but how frustrating would it be if you're the person who *just can't find* where that code was? Walkthroughs exist for people who are struggling with the game. Nobody forces you to use them. I would never play a game from a company which makes walkthroughs unusable in parts.

It is EXTREME mode, afterall. It's suppose to be challenging! Going through passwords with a quick wiki or walkthrough help, takes that challenge away.

For everyone else normal mode can be done. But give folks who want to REALLY hack and crack a challenge (be real sweet to have some special tools too, like snoopware, to read chatter off Internet 1/2/3/4+ for clues).

Blade_hunter
30th Jun 2008, 20:50
Typing in the codes and logins added a MASSIVE amount of immersion to the game. I full support it in dx3 and hope we can implement even more methods that makes the actions that we perform in the game more true to what one would actually have to do if they were in that situation.

Of course because IRL we must do the same when we want to access in a locked PC or door

The retinal scan for example could be animated (When we use it we approach our head to the scanner and the door opens if we are authorized to pass the door)
The digital scanner could the same, see our character put its finger in the scanner
When we use a computer we can see the environment and the computer screen is used like when we use a computer in a desk.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
2nd Jul 2008, 20:39
I absolutely loved physically typing in logins/passwords and punching in the PIN for stuff. It just had this great immersive effect. I never attempted to randomly guess an access code, but sometimes I would go through my datavault and it would have a few different codes and I couldn't figure out which one applied. So I had to try each. This might have been frustrating for some people (actually, it was kinda frustrating for me too - especially when I found out they were ALL wrong one time!), but I found it was a lot more realistic.


With you on that one, Tsumaru! :cool:
Yeah, sometimes it was frustrating but I agree that it added to the tension and realism. :)

Lo Bruto
2nd Jul 2008, 23:52
Typing in the codes was so... COOL.
But I think random generate them would be... TWICE AS COOL.
:nut:

For example, in the first level I already know the code was 0451 for that thing outside Unatco HQ, so I just rushed through Kaplan. (Who is the guy first gives this code but only if you say you're going to clean the place out and yadayadayada)

Kevyne-Shandris
3rd Jul 2008, 00:22
Typing in the codes was so... COOL.
But I think random generate them would be... TWICE AS COOL.
:nut:

For example, in the first level I already know the code was 0451 for that thing outside Unatco HQ, so I just rushed through Kaplan. (Who is the guy first gives this code but only if you say you're going to clean the place out and yadayadayada)

Or even better, if one of our tools operates like a secureid device. Then the password has to be randomly generated, and have to have the tool to read it or open a safe/computer/locker/door (a literal digital key). Makes it truly more life like (have a funny feeling passwords in even 20 years would be 256 characters long. It's already 64 for secured WiFi) -- not typing that out just to read email!

Blade_hunter
3rd Jul 2008, 00:38
For random code generation I played a mod for UT called Operation Na Pali (it's not the unreal mission pack even if the mod is single player) this mod have random code generation and when you read a book or other data with the code the code is randomly generated at each game this fact makes the game replayable without know the code, but only the location wher we can find this code.
But when some players are blocked in levels, it's good to find some solutions into websites.
I never use walkthrough or other things but I think for other guy's with difficulties...
I know it was a sort of "legal" cheat but I don't know if to make that thing is very well.
For my gaming experience I like this feature, yes, but just keep the fact we must type passwords/codes to use computerized/electronic devices is fine.

Kevyne-Shandris
3rd Jul 2008, 00:49
But when some players are blocked in levels, it's good to find some solutions into websites.
I never use walkthrough or other things but I think for other guy's with difficulties...

Which is the reason why such a playstyle should be reserved for a Extreme option (or just a check box as an option). That way for the casual gamer or one that doesn't want to be frustrated, can bypass it, but play the game as always. The ADHD/ADD types can just use the walkthroughs and all, but the hardcore gamer who wants a challenge, can spend some time trying to truly hack and crack.

It's a mini-game in itself, just like in Oblivion with it's lockpick mini-game. You can wiggle the pins and try to open the lock with one pick, or take the risk of losing more with the auto method (that is before finding the skeleton key).

These mini-games add life to a game. And if the history is true about the series, maintaining interest in the franchise is paramount between them. This, making weapons/augs/hacking n' cracking is how to do it. Not necessary to "win" the game, but something for hardcore fans to do during the drought between games. Something so small, can add years to a life to a game.

ADDED: And think of the mod possibilities. Let alone contests of trying to get the most loot or who hacked/cracked the most (now that would be a cool promo campaign. Any breathing boy who thought they knew *nix and *BSD would be caught up in it). For the non hacker/crackers, who built what the fastest or the most unique weapon (mechanical/bio/nano). That would be fun to read about from the weapons types, and they'd have fun doing something than arguing dry stats.

So many possibilities, and all are modular. Not needed for actual gameplay, but kewl for all those who been through the game for the nth time!

Tsumaru
3rd Jul 2008, 03:28
I just remembered one time when I was playing DX; it was the final level busting into Area 51. I was hiding behind a crate opposite a door - and there was a turret on the roof a little bit down the corridor. For whatever reason, there was no way for me to disable the turret (or at least, not as far as I could see at the time) - but I needed to get into that damn room. Which of course was locked by a keypad.

So I had to jump across, punch in the button as quickly as possible, and duck in behind the opening doorway as the turret fired at me. If I was too slow with the code, I died. While it may be unrealistic that I used quicksave/load to try again when I died, I did like that realistic challenge of having to actually put in a code and avoid being shot while doing so. The whole "nothing happens while you're on a computer" system in other games irritated me. I like being able to get caught by a camera or patrolling guards or whatever when messing about. Same as the hacking countdown timer as well.

Kevyne-Shandris
3rd Jul 2008, 03:57
It's why I kept the GEP gun. Used it on every level but the MJ12 prison (had no choice there!). White phosphorus (fun watching the patrols hit run on fire!) to rockets. But I think I remember the one you're talking about, and it was tricky taking it down.

There were things in that level, like Page's little present in his effort to kill you (you know after the talk?). Later in the clone lab with another projectile (a BIG projectile!). Things that always kept you on the edge. The greasle run was the most fun though -- and boy can they run fast (even when using the aug!).

They don't make them like they used, too.