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AgnosticJive
22nd Jun 2008, 07:59
I'm going to start off by asking to keep the stupidity to a minimum. (I would say keep it all away...but I enjoy some of it,and it's impossible to stop stupidity on the internet.)

Now the question: HONESTLY...Disregarding Deus Ex, how do you think Deus Ex:Invisible War plays as an actual game without your biases from the original Deus Ex experience?

The reason I ask this is because I never actually played IW, however I recently downloaded it and began playing it...I knew what happened, I knew everyones deal and all that, I knew how the game ends, and I know what everyone disliked about it however I also know that as far as reviews went, the game never really received horrible scores and was on par with most average games. I'm going to keep my opinion and feelings about my little IW experience to myself for now, at least until I see some responses to my question.

iWait
22nd Jun 2008, 08:11
Compared to other shooters it has a good, solid story line, is a lot more in-depth than games like Red Faction II, and has some replayability.
Though its storyline does not compare to DX and its combat gameplay does not compare to Halo it is a pretty good game.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
22nd Jun 2008, 11:47
If we consider it on its own merits, t's still a good game, yes. :cool:
I played it twice and I would probably play it again quite happily.

Besides, it introduced The Omar - I definitely felt a strange connection with them, hehe. :D

Tsumaru
22nd Jun 2008, 12:57
Not nearly as bad as people make out. The lack of skills and making everything just a few augs gave it a more general FPS feel as opposed to the deeper RPG elements of the first. But as an FPS, it was pretty good. It had a fairly solid storyline, and the odd plot twist here and there. The universal ammo wasn't irritating to play with and I don't have a huge cry about it like everyone else. The main things which irritated me were the frequent and fairly long loading screens, and the poorly managed voice acting of Alex in regards to his choices. Ie, he can have a whole automated conversation where he sounds genuinely sympthetic and interested in what the person is saying, and then you can choose an option where he comes off aggressive out of nowhere. Kinda killed the immersion to me because I couldn't feel as if I truly had control over Alex - or that he even had consistent views at all. But this a minor complaint in the grand scheme of things.

I wouldn't say it's a really great game, but it's fairly decent.

MaxxQ1
22nd Jun 2008, 15:04
I think the general consensus I've seen over the years is that, as a stand-alone, IW isn't really a bad game. In thinking back to the one time I played it, what irritated me the most was the Universal Ammo, and the HUD.

The ammo thing was just silly, even though when I first heard about it on the old Ion Storm forums, I tried to believe it might be a good idea, even offering my own justifications on how it might work. The thing is, it still COULD have worked, had it been implemented better.

The HUD was just clunky and annoying, and reminded me of the options selection method from Neverwinter Nights, which I also hated.

However, IW gains some points from me that most others won't consider: in a part of the game when you're in an broken-down shop or house, with some Omar around, you can find some books hidden under some debris. One of those books talks about the care and maintenance of Ohio State University bobblehead dolls. Now, being born and raised (and still living) in Ohio, and a big Buckeyes* fan, this just tickled me no end. :lol:

*Q: What's a Buckeye?
A: A useless nut.:scratch:

mad_red
22nd Jun 2008, 16:53
Well, judged on it's own merits it's fun in some ways, but sucks arse in others.

Here's what I didn't like regardless of my gaming background:

- Small or confined enviroments (and loading screens making it worse). It would have been fine if only a slight few more open playing fields were interspersed.

- Limited gameplay possibilities and paths. At first I thought I was just used to DX1, but then I realized I simply like variety, and DX:IW doesn't go out of it's way to offer you that. It's got some, just not enough.

- Squeaky clean feel. Like the game was designed by a computer, instead of a mad scientist putting his every harebrained idea into it, half the time forgetting about them immediately after. This applies to almost every aspect: Characters, enviroments, weapons.


What I did like - I mean really loved:

- Antarctica. Partly because of the free feeling of open spaces, partly
because of JC, and partly because I was running out of ammo. The only place that had the same mystery and magic as DX1.

- Cleaning Cairo's atmosphere, especially the convo with the guy saying it was the solution was too experimental. He was one of the not-so-one-dimensional character in the game. He kinda reminds me of Manderley now that I think about him...

- The trashed and abandoned apartment. It had the right feel - rummaging through the rubble looking for who-knows-what.

- The Omar ending. Chillingly mind-blowing. Never saw it coming (in DX:IW that is).

- The story, of which I wanted more in the game.

AaronJ
22nd Jun 2008, 17:50
Acceptable.

jcp28
22nd Jun 2008, 19:30
It was a fairly decent game, but compared to a few others that were released at the time, it didn't hold up as well. The teeny, tiny levels and universal ammo really kind of took the immersion out of the experience. And Alex sucked balls. We don't really need to go into that. ****

But Lower Seattle and JC in Anartica were definite highlights.:cool:

GruntOwner
22nd Jun 2008, 20:36
Too little work was put into the story for me to honestly find it compelling, I felt more involved when I played Halo, which many of you will agree says a lot. At the same time it did not have sufficient action to justify being a good shooter. This was only amplified by knowing DX, though as shooters go the storyline was too little substance given how much time was spent on it and the combat was fairly appalling with very little innovation in the "multiple way round" option. I think the best level was probably that club in Seattle, and I'd still put in more effort on the tactical front playing Gears of War.

Luminous Path
22nd Jun 2008, 20:45
Lacked the immersion of dx1 in that it was too short.

Non-linear format a plus.

Felt rushed; the developers were obviously under pressure to churn out a multi-platform money spinner. As a result small maps and underdeveloped character strata; the Omar. Perhaps a trip to the Russian science labs, couple of vodkas and a greasel or too?

Some clever dialogue; Sid Black; 'I always drop my birds on the curb'.

Overall not a bad shooter, but as a dx1 fan I expected so much more than a polished (although not much judging by the original release) shoot 'em up.

AgnosticJive
22nd Jun 2008, 21:51
Alright,I'm glad to see some actual responses,now personally how I feel about the game is unfortunately not so nice. Ignoring My experiences with Deus Ex, I still find Deus Ex: Invisible War to be completely lacking.


The controls aren't that great...which is saying alot about a computer game since you can change the majority of the controls, yet somehow I still end up picking up a dead body and his gun instead of the ammo clip.

The universal ammo truly does suck, it might not be so bad if they had reworked it so that the smaller guns used far less ammo then the larger guns (oh, and the stun stick uses universal ammo...wtf?!?!)

Speaking of the stun stick/"bolt caster"/baton/etc. I've never played a game where a stun gun doesn't stun someone until their health is depleted, which I've found to be so unrewarding that nobody is going to survive this game.

Enemy damage...where to begin? First off, I'm not expecting every game to have a body damage system like deus ex/soldier of fortune (which in my opinion had a much gorier and sweeter bodily damage system) but in a shooter there's a golden rule...you get shot in the head, you're dead. Something IW decided was too unfair or something because I shot someone in the head four times in the head at point blank range with the shotgun...apparently enemy thugs are superhuman bullet proof monsters.

The HUD was clunky and uncomfortable, but the only part that truly bothers me about it was the inventory system...it was too small and moving things around is a chore, so why even bother with it?

The levels...ooooh how the levels kill me. Walk out of room...loading screen...walk down hallway...loading screen...walk into room at end of hallway...loading screen. On top of the loading screens for every single 30 steps...the levels themselves seem to be so small it's not even worth exploring.

The story itself, while seemingly involved, has left me feeling detached. I'm still in Seattle and I feel as though I don't even want to finish the game. I don't care about any of the characters and I feel as though they started off by pushing the factions on you, without giving you enough background to really feel who you want to side with.

These are the areas that I feel that Invisible War, based on its own merits, fail. However taking Deus Ex in to account there are a few more things that bothered me:


The BioMods...I enjoy the fact that you get a good number of them early on, I personally always felt that in Deus Ex you should at the majority of your Mods early on (even though they aren't upgraded) and the black market mods were kinda nice...but sorta useless. OH and wtf is with needing *****ing nanotechnology to use a computer? The lack of a skill system also kinda sucked, but again...taking IW based on it's own merits, is not all that unusual for a shooter.

Lastly all I have to say is: I understand that every single gun is made by mako...but when in history has a weapons company ever made a gun with their name in huge neon letters on it? let alone the gun itself looking like the bastard child of a super soaker and a sci-fi nerds wet dreams.

I haven't finished IW yet and I'm not sure I will, this game has failed me on it's own and has made me feel that it receiving the scores it did might have been a precursor to kane and lynch in that were any reviewers to be honest, they would now be bloggers.

minus0ne
23rd Jun 2008, 01:18
It's an interesting game, and when compared to other shooters at the time, it was decent. However therein lies the problem: it was made as a straight up shooter, within a DX gameworld. And it just doesn't work well as a shooter (failing to reach that target audience, where IW just can't compete well). It's also not effective at delivering a compelling story, which is just too wildly unbalanced, thinly spread out and badly paced, even though the story itself must've looked pretty good on paper.

If I judge it on the same level as the games it was competing with, it's a total fail. The atmosphere is all wrong, the "action" is barely challenging and game mechanics are unfinished (no stealth, though it was clearly intended to be there), the story is all over the place and there's not ONE even remotely interesting character (even JC, Paul and Tong fall flat), and to top it off the graphics aren't that good (not that I would've cared much had there been other redeeming qualities, but it's practically all that mainstream audiences look at). So it fails at being a mainstream shooter. However it also fails at being a sequel for many of the aforementioned reasons and more. So we're not left with a whole lot here.

Interestingly, it seems that having played Deus Ex first colours our views of IW immensely, but in either direction (which is why it's literally loved and hated). Either people feel that IW is a bad sequel, not living up to DX quality, or they feel it's a decent game, though obviously, it doesn't stand on its own two feet too well, meaning IW is a totally retarded game if one hasn't played DX first - it barely makes sense and the plot is even less involving without the set-up the first game lends to IW.

So paradoxically, this game can not be judged objectively:

Either you've played DX first, which clouds your judgement regarding IW, in both directions.

Or you've played IW first (which would technically be the most objective way to judge the game on its own merits), in which case good luck making sense of it and having fun with the game along the way (you'll need it), but then you don't have the added dimension of the DX backstory which lends the game most of its strength.


It's a paradox, a sad, sad paradox.

Romeo
23rd Jun 2008, 02:57
I like Invisible War, quite a bit actually.

jamesthefishy
23rd Jun 2008, 05:40
Honestly if it had been the first I think I would have still bought it. It totally was a great buy, I lost my first game by now but I still have the second one and hell. I still play it from time to time when I forget the story line, It's hard to remember the first one very well.. I remember there was a hooker and you saved her from her pimp... that was cool, I would like to see whats her name come back, you know the one you met up again with in LA.

Luminous Path
23rd Jun 2008, 12:56
Sandra Renton - Hell's Kitchen

AgnosticJive
23rd Jun 2008, 15:12
It's name WAS Sandra Renton until it became a hooker, hookers aren't people and have no souls, so they also don't get names. Bad hooker, you better listen to Jojo next time!

Luminous Path
23rd Jun 2008, 16:42
I'm guessing you let her take a pasting? Have you no pity? lol

AgnosticJive
23rd Jun 2008, 16:48
She took something, but I'm not a liberty to say what, or even how many of these "things" she took.

GruntOwner
23rd Jun 2008, 17:04
You're going to hell for that comment.

Cya there.

Now can I ask what you saw in her? I mean she was just a rebellious slag who refused help and only saw sense once her boyfriend started shooting her and her dad pumped a 12 guage into his head. My god, characterization. something IW lacked for the most part.

Luminous Path
23rd Jun 2008, 17:58
She took something, but I'm not a liberty to say what, or even how many of these "things" she took.

lol thats a good shout.

I think it was the fact that dx let you choose whether to help or not in situations such as this that made it such a great game; it employed your conscience.

Romeo
23rd Jun 2008, 18:03
True, but how many of you all would let a nice, sweet hooker die at the hands of her homocidal, manaical pimp? Wait...

Luminous Path
23rd Jun 2008, 18:38
I have played both dx1 and IW to completion trying not to kill anyone. This was not entirely possibel in dx1 but in IW the option was there to potentially not kill anyone, apart from some of the endings. The rag doll effect and the moan when you killed someone in IW was a redeeming feature as it made you realise, hang on, I've ended someone's life. If they manage to make you care about the characters and make them human enough for you to think twice before putting the round down as in dx1 and to an extent IW then that is one aspect that would be successful.

Blade_hunter
23rd Jun 2008, 20:47
For me it's a medium game not bad, but not a great game.

the tiny levels, the console hud and play, the uni ammo are the main bad things on this game,
the story, and some improvements are a good thing, some elements add some options and ways.

WhatsHisFace
24th Jun 2008, 04:32
Without Deus Ex 1 comparisons, Deus Ex: Invisible War is a strong, linear RPG with good shooting but almost no stealth opportunities whatsoever. If Deus Ex (and System Shock) never existed, I'd say it was a "Bioshock before there was Bioshock".

Lo Bruto
24th Jun 2008, 04:37
DX IW is a Good game.
It sucks when you realize it's a DX's sequel and compare both.

AgnosticJive
24th Jun 2008, 07:10
Without Deus Ex 1 comparisons, Deus Ex: Invisible War is a strong, linear RPG with good shooting but almost no stealth opportunities whatsoever. If Deus Ex (and System Shock) never existed, I'd say it was a "Bioshock before there was Bioshock".
How is Invisible War a RPG? One major aspect of RPGs is a skill/attribute system that you use to tailor your character to your specifications, Invisible War only had the biomod system and an extremely limited inventory system which I can say hardly calls for it to be an RPG, more like a WRPG (wannabe RPG.) Bioshock was so much more than Invisble War could have ever been, the emphasis placed on morality and how things could go so wrong were so far ahead of Invisible War (and even Deus Ex 1) that to draw a distinction between them is a bit presumptuous.

and I've gotta say...everyone seems to think Invisible War was a pretty decent game...something I can't agree to,lol.

Blade_hunter
24th Jun 2008, 22:33
Extremely limited inventory Hum it depends the fact we can use a fix number of items that's the great limit, but the DX 1 inventory you can't carry a lot of heavy weapons in DX 2 you can because the size doesn't affect this.

DX 2 is an FPS like Tron 2.0 without the lightcycles phases and with biomods,

Bioshock much more than DX 2, No because Bioshock is an FPS not a true Hybrid genre,
like DX 2 even if Bioshock have the tonics instead of skills, but theses enhancements are more on the side of the story and the unreal engine 3
For me Bioshock is a mix between System shock and the game requiem.
Thats my opinion ...