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oceanclub
10th Jun 2008, 14:51
After finishing Deadly Shadows, I'm working my way backwards and am now on Thief II.

When customizing controls, I notice that there is both a "Walk very slowly" key and a "Creep" key - what exactly is the difference between these? The manual doesn't mention either, oddly.

Also, there appears to be no equivalent to the Deadly Shadows "wall flattening" key - is that the case? In Thief 2, does being right next to a wall give you a stealth bonus?

Regards,

P.

R_Soul
10th Jun 2008, 15:12
Creep just slows down whatever movement you're currently doing.

E.g. creep + walk slowly = walk really slowly. That combination allows you to silently cross metal and tile. So you can save on moss arrows, but it leaves you vulnerable if an AI should approach. You might not be able to silently get out of the way in time.

There is no wall flattening, but I think being next to a wall slightly reduces your visibility.

oceanclub
10th Jun 2008, 15:54
Creep just slows down whatever movement you're currently doing.

E.g. creep + walk slowly = walk really slowly. That combination allows you to silently cross metal and tile. So you can save on moss arrows, but it leaves you vulnerable if an AI should approach. You might not be able to silently get out of the way in time.

There is no wall flattening, but I think being next to a wall slightly reduces your visibility.

So "Creep" is a modifier which decreases your movement speed down to the next level?

So the following is probably a bit anal (OK, scratch that, _is_ a bit anal) but is the hierarchy of speed from fast to slow something like:

1. "Run" key
2. "Walk" key (same as "Run" key + Creep modifier?)
3. "Walk very slowly" key (same as "Walk" key + Creep modifier?)
4. "Walk very slowly" key + Creep modifier

P.

jtr7
10th Jun 2008, 19:38
I've never noticed a "walk very slowly" option, just run, walk, and creep. I'll have to look at my binds menu again.


ANyway, In T1/TG/T2, wall-flattening is just unnecessary, because darkness and silence are all you need. If your light gem is as dark as it's going to get, a guard can bump into you and not react, so being near a wall doesn't matter. Crouching in the shadows is almost the same as wall-flattening in T3. In T3, they added another level of stealth by adding the need to wall-flatten to be as hidden as possible, and made it seem a little bit more realistic, or less fantastic, however you want to look at it.


EDIT: Okay, here's a theory until it can be checked in-game. First, the bindings in question:


bindname_0: "Run Forward"
bindname_1: "Walk Forward"
bindname_2: "Walk Forward Slowly"
bindname_3: "Move Backward"
bindname_4: "Move Left"
bindname_5: "Move Right"
bindname_6: "Turn Left"
bindname_7: "Turn Right"
bindname_8: "Look Up"
bindname_9: "Look Down"
bindname_10: "Center View"
bindname_11: "Lean Forward"
bindname_12: "Lean Left"
bindname_13: "Lean Right"
bindname_14: "Toggle Crouch"
bindname_15: "Hold Crouch"
bindname_16: "Jump"
bindname_17: "Jump/Block"
bindname_18: "Attack"
bindname_19: "Use Item"
bindname_20: "Block"
bindname_21: "Creep"
bindname_22: "Run"

Notice there's "Run Forward" and "Run", as well. Anyway, I always thought that the Creep button just modified whatever speed you were going, taking it down a notch.
Pressing the Creep button while Running will make you walk fast.
Pressing the Creep button while Walking will make you walk slowly, OR you could just press the Walk Slowly key, so it's one key vs. two.
Pressing the Creep button while Walking and Crouched will make you move very very slowly.
Of course, if you want to slow your movement down in many more degrees, with fluidity instead of incrementally, and using only one key, just walk continuously at an angle into a wall. :p

Does that sound about right, guys?

R_Soul
10th Jun 2008, 23:25
I think "Run" is for when you are already walking and hold down the run key. Probably like the opposite of creep. No, I haven't tried it combined with walk slowly.


I think the slowest possible movement (ignoring walls) is creep + walk slowly + crouch and carrying a body, but that would require tremendous patience.

jtr7
11th Jun 2008, 03:05
Like AI nudging!:D

Peter_Smith
11th Jun 2008, 04:21
There are a large number of possible speeds in Thief 2, obtainable using combinations of keys. I use special key bindings to make the coordination easier for me. The names applied to the bindings in USR.BND do not correspond to the names you find when you enter the options menu to modify the controls. I think the options menu names are more descriptive. Below is my understanding of how it works and the key bindings that I use.

In order, from fastest to slowest, when you are in standing position:

The "run forward" key is the fastest you can go forward. I use "up arrow".

There is a second combination key called "speed toggle". In user.bnd, this is called "creepon." That modifies run to a brisk walk. I use "SHIFT". So, the combination SHIFT-up-arrow" is a brisk walk.

Next is the key called "walk forward" in the options menu. In user.bnd it is called +forward. This is a slow walk. I use CTRL for this.

The slowest steady movement while standing is the combination of "walk forward" and "speed toggle", or in my case SHIFT-CTRL.

The crouch position (I use "/" for "toggle crouch") also makes you move slower. I am not sure about the ranking, but I think that crouch is about the same as speed modify. Thus, crouch-run is about the same speed as speed-modify-run.

If you first do "toggle crouch" to put you in crouch position and then use "speed modify", it is doubly slow. Thus, the slowest steady motion is crouch, then speed modify + walk forward, or in my case, "/" followed by SHIFT-CTRL.

The very slowest movement, when you get one of those impossible AI's, is like the above but instead of holding down the "walk forward" key you go tap-tap-tap with the "walk forward" key.

Notice that all my motion control bindings including crouch are close together, so I can use any combination I need with my left hand, while my right hand is always on the mouse.

jtr7
11th Jun 2008, 05:57
Sheesh, shounds like we all have unique copies of the game. The binding names I posted match the names on my menu screen.:nut:

Yandros
14th Jun 2008, 11:05
Running forward is not the fastest speed, Peter. Strafe-running is faster (Run forward + strafe left or right), although you have to angle your view to go the way you want to since you're not running straight ahead. I strafe-run everywhere when retracing my steps through a part of the mission which I've cleared of AI and stealth is no longer required. :)

Strafing also boosts your swimming speed, which can be used, for example, to barely get through the swimming puzzle in Vlad Midnight's Slow But Steady Progress with only one breath potion instead of two.

R_Soul
14th Jun 2008, 18:29
And you can 'swim' faster when you let your feet get a grip on the ground.

Actually, faster might not be the correct word. It's easier to go against the current.

taffernic
14th Jun 2008, 19:51
OK - I asked the same question over at TTLG but haven't had an answer yet. Where or what is the 'Walk very slowly' key. I don't appear to have it, so is it something I have to produce for myself?

Don't seem to have any other options but run and walk. Crouching - is that what you mean by creep? But then jtr7's list also has a crouch. I'm baffled.

jtr7
14th Jun 2008, 21:09
Crouch just makes you squat down. There are two Crouch commands: one only works as long as you hold the key, and the other is a toggle, so you can press it, without holding it, and stay crouched until you press it again, or press the Attack key. There are paths you cannot take without Crouching.

Creep is just a speed variable. If you are standing still, pressing the Creep key won't seem to be doing anything, but if you are moving, it will drop your speed down a bit.

You can Crouch and Creep to go really slow. Crouching before stepping off a high ledge will soften your landing (if it's not too high), and the reduced impact will be quieter, and less injurious if it is from pretty high. Stepping of a large crate while Crouched, for example, will make your landing quieter, so it's another level of stealth.

I don't have the default key settings map available right now, but I seem to recall (it's been years) that there are Options in the Customize Controls menu that are not mentioned elsewhere. I also found I could copy and paste my custom T2 bindings into T1/Gold, and gain the extra options and key commands, since my T1/G games don't have Creep, or customizeable Quickload and Quicksave in the menu. I'd played T2 first and had gotten used to expecting certain commands to be there.

taffernic
15th Jun 2008, 06:42
I don't have the default key settings map available right now, but I seem to recall (it's been years) that there are Options in the Customize Controls menu that are not mentioned elsewhere.

Thanks jtr7. I'll have a dig around. I tend to just use 'run' and 'crouch+walk'. At least that seems all that's available apart from 'walk'.

Peter_Smith
15th Jun 2008, 17:42
Running forward is not the fastest speed, Peter. Strafe-running is faster (Run forward + strafe left or right), although you have to angle your view to go the way you want to since you're not running straight ahead....

LOL. I was talking about normal keys. You are certainly correct, Yandros. I use that technique fairly often. It is also good for launching jumps. And don't forget about the triple jump in T1 as a way to increase forward speed. :)