PDA

View Full Version : Developers: Please don't listen to us



Maximus
10th Jun 2008, 00:40
Look, i'm probably going to get some flak for saying this. But please don't take everything we say here on the forums on board when you are developing DX3. In fact, treat us like you would treat a hot but ditzy woman - when we blather on about interfaces, prequels, weapons or whatever, just nod, smile and continue working on seducing us.

Because we don't know what the hell we want.

Do you think Warren Spector sent out emails to fans asking what they wanted before creating the original Deus Ex? No way, he had a vision of a great game, brought his people together and created it. He was the developer, he was the imagineer, he didn't ask permission before violating the established rules of game development and creating a game that was brilliant.

Thats what made DX such a brilliant game. That he didn't listen to people and created what was in his heart. And thats what you should do too.

So keep going on what you're doing and trust that we'll still be here when you're done.

Maximus

jordan_a
10th Jun 2008, 00:49
Because we don't know what the hell we want.On the contrary there's a consensus on most of the threads which deal with important features of the game. Conversations are often interesting, any community is valuable.

Tsumaru
10th Jun 2008, 01:21
I don't understand. They didn't ask the fans before making DX:IW either, and that apparently turned out absolutely horrible. So if them not listening to the fans means DX3 with universal ammo - are you sure you stick by this post?

I think the developers will do what they will do. And you saying "don't listen to us!" will have about as much impact to them as "they better damned well listen to us!" If they view this forum at all, I suspect they will only listen to well thought-out points supported by some form of reasoning. Not just "I WANT I WANT I WANT". And that's only *if* they view and *if* they listen to anything at all and acknowledge half of it as anything more than whining.

minus0ne
10th Jun 2008, 04:53
This was already discussed here:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=725382

But I agree this forum (luckily) probably has little impact on the development of this game. Of course the devs probably/possibly pop in from time to time, but on the whole gamers really overestimate their own ability to design a game (which is essentially what needs to be done and what fans attempt to do when they make suggestions and demands), and therefore they'll probably dismiss most of it rather quickly, if they have even half a mind.

If developers would actually pay attention to every comment and truly consider it, they wouldn't get to develop anything, as half of all said comments devolve into "I want X or I'm not going to buy it", the other half makes little to no sense at all, and roughly all of it's contradictory.

Basically we're here for our own amusement, and to indulge ourself in our belief that we have valuable things to say, and perhaps if one were to filter through all the crap, that might be, on occasion, true :p

Rindill the Red
10th Jun 2008, 05:26
Look, i'm probably going to get some flak for saying this. But please don't take everything we say here on the forums on board when you are developing DX3. In fact, treat us like you would treat a hot but ditzy woman - when we blather on about interfaces, prequels, weapons or whatever, just nod, smile and continue working on seducing us.

Because we don't know what the hell we want.

Do you think Warren Spector sent out emails to fans asking what they wanted before creating the original Deus Ex? No way, he had a vision of a great game, brought his people together and created it. He was the developer, he was the imagineer, he didn't ask permission before violating the established rules of game development and creating a game that was brilliant.

Thats what made DX such a brilliant game. That he didn't listen to people and created what was in his heart. And thats what you should do too.

So keep going on what you're doing and trust that we'll still be here when you're done.

Maximus

Your entire post is a paradox. If they are not to listen to us, then they won't listen to you, so they would listen to us, and if they listen to us, they would listen to you, so they wouldn't listen to us, so they wouldn't listen to you...

Rindill the Red
10th Jun 2008, 05:38
This was already discussed here:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=725382

But I agree this forum (luckily) probably has little impact on the development of this game. Of course the devs probably/possibly pop in from time to time, but on the whole gamers really overestimate their own ability to design a game (which is essentially what needs to be done and what fans attempt to do when they make suggestions and demands), and therefore they'll probably dismiss most of it rather quickly, if they have even half a mind.

If developers would actually pay attention to every comment and truly consider it, they wouldn't get to develop anything, as half of all said comments devolve into "I want X or I'm not going to buy it", the other half makes little to no sense at all, and roughly all of it's contradictory.

Basically we're here for our own amusement, and to indulge ourself in our belief that we have valuable things to say, and perhaps if one were to filter through all the crap, that might be, on occasion, true :p

Perhaps that's the way it is here, I don't think so, though, especially because this is so early in development. I once made a long trail of posts (I posted again and again asking the same thing over and over) in the forums for elder scrolls 4 (Oblivion), and I actually think I made a difference. If you have ever played that game you may notice a shop in the Imperial city called "Rindir's staffs". My forum name Rindill, is not far off. In any case, my argument was for staffs (or staves, I'm not sure which is correct) which were not traditional weapons but were magic and could shoot spells or have affects. And indeed that was the way staffs were in the game when it came out and that was specifically what "Rindir's" shop sold. They even made fun of me by making Rindir an annoying Wood Elf and having him mention how he wasn't sure if it was staffs or staves. My arguments were long and various, I went through the whole history of staves being sources of magic power, drawing on biblical elements (Moses), more recent sources (Lord of the Rings, fantasy), and the traditional magicians wand. Was it really me who convinced them, who knows?, but I had fun doing it and I like to think so.

Tsumaru
10th Jun 2008, 07:25
I only ever played Oblivion so I dunno what Morrowind or earlier was like, but I certainly know staves as magic items have been in plenty of other games - Diablo comes to mind first of all. Staves are pretty much useless to everyone except the Sorceress in Diablo II. I just found it to be natural when it was half the same in Oblivion. Hmm.

mad_red
10th Jun 2008, 07:46
I don't know much about game design, but here's what I think:

What the fans KNOW:
- What they liked in the previous games.
- What they didn't like in the previous games.

What the fans DON'T KNOW:
- Everything else.

So most things the fans say about what should be in DX3 should probably be inspiration at most, and pressure to 'get it right' at least. I always come up with harebrained ideas, but the only real purpose is to plant a creative seed and show my support for a good product.

Anyway, after all is said and done, it always comes down to 2 things:
1. Blood and tears. Anything else is just regurgitating the "winning formula", and even that can turn out alright with enough blood and tears. There is no easy way to create art, otherwise everyone could do it.
2. Luck. Namely, that elusive chaos theory (?) thing, where the sum of it's pieces lead to an unpredictable end result - good as in DX1 (who would've thought!) or bad as in DX2 (who would've thought!)

PS. love your story Rindill!

Maximus
10th Jun 2008, 07:52
I absolutely stand by my post. I think they should ignore what we say and just feed us pictures and dev diaries. We should let them focus on developing the best game in the world rather than thinking to themselves "the fans want this" or "this poll said the fans dont like this". In a lot of the developer interviews they mention how they read the fan messageboards, and this one is official, so...

Anyway I put myself in their position and I know i would not like to be burdened by the massive expectations of the fans and the weight of the "greatest game ever".

I also don't want the design guys to read the forums and think that "universal ammo vs not universal ammo" is the only thing they can design. Maybe they dont use ammo. Maybe they have regenerating ammo. Maybe there are 100 different things they could do and if we set the frame of the debate between 2 of them it might color their thinking.

Basically my point is: we don't know what we like until we experience it. So we shouldnt try and influence development; we should let them craft an amazing experience that we will play on its own merits, not whether it conforms to our previously held expectations or not.

Maxi

Tsumaru
10th Jun 2008, 08:43
We should let them focus on developing the best game in the world rather than thinking to themselves "the fans want this"
This is an inherently flawed idea. The problem lies in the fact that there is no "best game in the world", as the "goodness" of any game is purely subjective. They may very well develop their 'best game in the world', which could very well be your most hated game in the world. How do you reconcile these differences? As I said earlier; nobody sets out to make a crap game.


I know i would not like to be burdened by the massive expectations of the fans and the weight of the "greatest game ever".
Isn't that exactly what you are doing. Nobody here is even asking them to make the greatest game ever except for you - we just want it to live up to the expectations of the original. Most of the fans don't even think it can be *better* than the original, they just want it to get up there as close as possible. You're burdening them with more expectation than anybody else, especially if you refuse to tell them what could make their game "the best in the world".


Basically my point is: we don't know what we like until we experience it.
But we know what we dislike. And tying into your point above this one about universal ammo vs regular ammo; as long as people actually SUPPORT their views, they can still come to a consensus about what is good. If they have an idea which is neither regular nor universal ammo, they can see what people argue in favour of regular and what they hated about universal and try to see where their idea lies in the scheme of things.


we should let them craft an amazing experience that we will play on its own merits, not whether it conforms to our previously held expectations or not.
The problem with being a developer (of any sort) is that you are always going to be held to the highest expectations, compared to everything else, and rarely given the respect you may (or may not) deserve. That's a fact of life. If you don't want to give the fans high expectations, make the first game crap. Then surprise them with an awesome sequel! Of course, you won't have any fans in the first place with a crap first one. Problematic, isn't it? But to have the expectation that fans will have no expectations seems silly if you're writing a sequel to what they consider the best game ever.

It's as they say. If you can't handle the heat - stay out of the kitchen.

J.CDenton
10th Jun 2008, 09:09
Maybe the developpers will tyake in account what has been told about the last episodes anyway. They'll surely not take the risk to give us another DX2 which had mixed reviews and was not as best as the first one. They'll surely take inspiration from the last games but create something totaly new, with its own mecanism and rules.

Now it's true to ask ourselves what it'll look lie? Warren Spector had a true vision, he had the game in his mind and put everything into it. That what made DX awesome: it was coming out a vision, the guy was truly believing in its game, he didn't just wanted to do some stuff which relied on technical aspects with a few Gameplay. Not only DX was a true mastepiece but it was talking to us, directly putting the player into the heart of the action. It was not a game where the player was just sitting behind is screen and using a mouse and a keyboard, you truly feel you're doing the quest with Denton. Maximum immersion was the master word (in any case one of them) of DX.

So I think we're reacting because of DX2 which was a disappointment. We are so respectfull and fond of DX saga that we're scared that the sequel is going to be a disappointment. And we've some good reasons. Even if some peoples really enjoyed DX2. We're having great expectations for DX3 so it's normal we're asking ourselves tons of questions. Especially considering that the brain behind the two first game will not be there. Would have Spector signed up for DX3 I'm pretty sure that people would feel a bit better about what is coming.

It's a question of trust I think. Eidos has produced great games. We can expect the Eidos Montreal staff to do a great job. Now is the problem beetween doing a Deus Ex for Fans Game or a true Deus Ex game. They'll certainly take into account some comments from that board and most of them will surely be about the DX2 bad points. But in the end the'll port their own vision on screen and we have to expect not to see everything we're dreaming of.

Maybe they'll release a game which will again be a true revolution, a huge masterpiece as was DX1 at his time. I can just expect them to do that. We'll have anyway our first answers when will be released the plot and the screenshots. Fo now the only thing we hae to do is waiting.

So I wish good luck to Eidos Montreal and hope they'll kick the asses with DX3and brings back one of the bet games ever made (for me the THE best game quickly followed my Metal GEar and Zelda).

jordan_a
10th Jun 2008, 10:31
1:37 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=MGIdYl2oN74)

FrankCSIS
10th Jun 2008, 17:27
I have mixed feelings regarding the logic behind your arguments. I tend to agree that democracy pushed to its limits often produces more problems than it solves, and I can see where it applies to game development, but at the same time I find it a bit silly not to use this incredible (and free) resource that is netsourcing.

The good video Jordan posted sort of confirms what I was about to say. Notice that when mentioning where they should have listened to the fans instead of their "hardcore friends", it was mainly about technical datas, and this is pretty much where I draw the line. A game is much like any other form of art, it requires a soul, or vision, and the technical means to achieve it. The soul has to come from the devs, because they are the ones that will enforce it, be driven by it and be its guardian against all the naysayers.

The technical datas, the systems used and implemented, however, need to come from both the devs and the people, if for no other reason than the fact that devs, highly and closely involved in a project, at the sacrifice of everything else, often lack insight when it comes to how the outside world will react to the idea. It's the exact same thing with movies, political decisions or social programs. The people who put them in place create for themselves an idea of how people will react, and are often surprised by reactions they had never even thought of.

To me the main reason to netsource though is purely an engineering one. Designing an engine, an inventory system or an augmentation system is the same as building a bridge, a car, an interstate or a plane, it's all about compromises. How will decision A affect the overall project versus decision B, and what can we expect from a combination of all the decisions when taken into account as a whole? That is the core of engineering, and the problem often is there aren't enough thinkers on the payroll to predict or envision everything. I'm sure the universal ammo came off as a pretty good idea, but obviously ammo management wasn't fully taken into account when the decision was made because the end result was problematic. This is why it's not a bad idea to listen to what others have to say, what gamers have to say, because for every ten raving lunatics who just complain there is always one with a genuine argument that devs quite possibly hadn't thought of in the first place.

minus0ne
10th Jun 2008, 17:34
[...] Was it really me who convinced them, who knows?, but I had fun doing it and I like to think so.
At the risk of repeating myself with a quote;

Basically we're here for our own amusement, and to indulge ourself in our belief that we have valuable things to say, and perhaps if one were to filter through all the crap, that might be, on occasion, true

AaronJ
10th Jun 2008, 17:42
*sigh*

Chemix
10th Jun 2008, 18:14
First Lesson of Cynicism: People are stupid
Second Lesson of Cynicism: That includes you
Third Lesson of Cynicism: Trust no one to do the right thing
Fourth Lesson of Cynicism: Always do it yourself
Fifth Lesson: Always listen just in case something intelligent is said
Sixth Lesson: Everything means Nothing, but Nothing is Everything

Basically, leaving the developers with no input is leaving them to make the right choice, chances are, they won't make the right choice (right as the fans deem right, not absolute right), so while we shouldn't bludgeon them over mistakes (unless worthy of such: see Universal Ammo), we should try and suggest some guide lines. We can't have total control, we aren't the devs, we have no money, and most of us, no skills, but we can at least try to assert some good ideas.

That video is really good as far as insight goes into why DX: IW was so horrible in comparison to DX1.

minus0ne
10th Jun 2008, 20:08
I have mixed feelings regarding the logic behind your arguments. I tend to agree that democracy pushed to its limits often produces more problems than it solves, and I can see where it applies to game development, but at the same time I find it a bit silly not to use this incredible (and free) resource that is netsourcing.What's funny is that of all the games we now consider to be classics, none was created with input by 'the fans'. It only starts going wrong when "netsourcing" arrives and devs have to dispatch entire PR-teams to create the illusion of fan input. Democracy doesn't enter into the whole equation as it bears no relevance whatsoever on this subject.

FrankCSIS
10th Jun 2008, 23:15
There's been ****ty games, and especially crappy sequels way before netsourcing, and none of what I said have anything to do with PR teams conducting ridiculous studies. I'm the first to admit test screening for movies and panels for products are completely useless because people tend to lie, often to themselves, about their feelings. None of this has anything to do with using the input of others on technicalities. I'm not interested in the marketing department trying to sell me a game before it's even developed, as is often the case with what you've mentioned.

Keep in mind, very few of the aforementioned classics were sequels, and what made them survive through time is their original vision, their soul, not their engines or their ammo systems. We can keep on playing classics regardless of ridiculously outdated technologies because that's not what made them great, and I certainly don't want any fans to mess with that, as mentioned in the previous post you seem to have disregarded.

None of this changes the fact that opinions and arguments matter when it comes to the second part of building a game, the technical means to make it a reality and the choices/compromises in interface that have to be made. If the original vision for this game is not anything short of outstanding, the players will not disregard questionable choices in interface, as proven by the Invisible War fiasco.

jcp28
11th Jun 2008, 00:15
One of the main problems I have with the thread's subject is the assertion that we should place full trust in the developers. Let's face it, not all game developers are visionaries liek Warren Spector was. I don't really think DX 3 will be anything approaching DX 1, as far as the immersive experience. It probably doesn't have the same clear vision for this, as there was for DX 1. Besides, even DX could have benefited from some input, like think of he AI for example. Sure, it is still a classic but there were flaws.


And another thing, I actually think it will make it easier for Eidos Montreal to develop this game if we give feedback on how philosophy, conspiracy thoeries and other assorted junk fit into this game. From the stuff I've read in the forums, it sounds like people want something that's more of an important backdrop, rather than a bunch of hacknyed crap that's tacked on. If we didn't say ****, I could see the developers throwing some random junk in that we are given absolutely no reason to care about.

Those are the reason why I ultimately think that the developers could use these forums.

jordan_a
11th Jun 2008, 01:12
I actually think it will make it easier for Eidos Montreal to develop this game if we give feedback on how philosophy, conspiracy theories Are you kidding? I hope they didn't wait for us to finish the story!!! :lol:

jcp28
11th Jun 2008, 02:06
Nah, probably not. The story is one of those things that I think will remain in the hands of the developers. My main point was meant to be how certain elements should be implemented. Obviously, the devs won't take all our suggestions, but they might get a sense of parts of the general direction that it would benefit the game to take.

mad_red
11th Jun 2008, 13:29
Nah, probably not. The story is one of those things that I think will remain in the hands of the developers. My main point was meant to be how certain elements should be implemented. Obviously, the devs won't take all our suggestions, but they might get a sense of parts of the general direction that it would benefit the game to take.

Yeah! For example if they decide that the audience is too dumb to appreciate a complex game, or that sociopolitical critique is inappropriate somehow in this time and age, I'd be happy for a chance to give them my thoughts... forcibly :mad2:

Kneo24
12th Jun 2008, 00:01
On the contrary there's a consensus on most of the threads which deal with important features of the game. Conversations are often interesting, any community is valuable.

A consensus doesn't mean the majority is right. I find a lot of the comments here void of critical analytical development.

AgnosticJive
12th Jun 2008, 02:39
I leave this forum god knows how long ago, only to come back and see people going over the same crap over and over. Maximus is right, they shouldn't listen to the people here if only for no other reason then all everyone does is whine about how they think the game would be perfect...only to have someone say the total opposite would be perfect. Everyone has their own crappy opinions but here's the thing Mensa members, the guys making the game? That's their JOB, something they are obviously skilled at since they are being employed, they get paid to make these decisions and to make these games because they have done enough to show they know what they are doing. Making a name for a forum then pointing out the similarity to a name in a game doesn't mean they listen to you or even acknowledge you, it means St. Louis is extremely boring (btw,Elder Scrolls had staves in Daggerfall at the earliest...which was a teensy bit before you hopped on any forums dude.) No,reading these forums doesn't make their jobs easier when designing games, for no other fact then if they DID they would have to pick a side in a place where nobody can agree,and they're going to end up disappointing someone regardless. They know and acknowledge that deus ex 2 was a bit of a commercial failure that received mediocre reviews, stop screaming like a five year old in the back seat begging for attention, focus your efforts on bickering with each other, it's much more pleasing to see two people fighting each other over trivial nonsensical matters then seeing two people fight over the attention of someone who isn't going to acknowledge either one of them anyways.
(and at the risk of the whole "they","them",etc. being considered weasel words, I am referring to the Development team currently working on their next big paycheck.)

Oh yeah, and for a bunch of people with this much free time, how does nobody have any new REAL information on this game?

jordan_a
12th Jun 2008, 08:38
I don't understand what all this commotion is about. You're worrying too much about things that are simple.

The forum is just a way for fans to express their opinions about how a DX game should be. The Important discussion threads list (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=75249) provides the developers a database from which they can pick up elements and adjust or not adjust simple features of the game to make it more enthusiast friendly.

And I beg to differ some people here since there are numerous areas where we pretty much all agree: ammo, vehicules, skills, music, inventory, interface, ect...

In a way this thread is useless for it asks the developers not to listen to us while we all know they might not!! :rolleyes:

mad_red
12th Jun 2008, 14:13
Yikes!!!

Can't (some of) you guys see that there's a bit of middle ground between:

1. Do everything that the majority says!
2. Ignore everyone.

???

You're plain scary sometimes.... I can see why some people vote for option 2 :rolleyes:

jordan_a
12th Jun 2008, 14:54
What?? :scratch:

mad_red
12th Jun 2008, 18:01
What?? :scratch:

Uhm... didn't mean all of you guys... I didn't want to quote anyone but here I go:


Quote1: What's funny is that of all the games we now consider to be classics, none was created with input by 'the fans'. It only starts going wrong when "netsourcing" arrives and devs have to dispatch entire PR-teams to create the illusion of fan input.

Quote2:A consensus doesn't mean the majority is right. I find a lot of the comments here void of critical analytical development.

Quote3: Are you kidding? I hope they didn't wait for us to finish the story!!!


I know none of the quotes above are saying "Listen to us" or "Don't listen to us at all", but to me, they read as though to imply just that, even though I can see the actual message is reasonable. Jordan_a, your last post was great and sober! But then there's the knee-jerk reaction (wasn't it?) to fan ideas about philosophy etc. Kinda surprising.

I guess I didn't expect people to have such strong and varied opinions about this topic.

jordan_a
12th Jun 2008, 19:00
I didn't understand your post, #26.

AaronJ
12th Jun 2008, 19:53
Bury this. Stop posting in it.

guru7892
13th Jun 2008, 04:26
Look, i'm probably going to get some flak for saying this. But please don't take everything we say here on the forums on board when you are developing DX3. In fact, treat us like you would treat a hot but ditzy woman - when we blather on about interfaces, prequels, weapons or whatever, just nod, smile and continue working on seducing us.

Because we don't know what the hell we want.

Do you think Warren Spector sent out emails to fans asking what they wanted before creating the original Deus Ex? No way, he had a vision of a great game, brought his people together and created it. He was the developer, he was the imagineer, he didn't ask permission before violating the established rules of game development and creating a game that was brilliant.

Thats what made DX such a brilliant game. That he didn't listen to people and created what was in his heart. And thats what you should do too.

So keep going on what you're doing and trust that we'll still be here when you're done.

Maximus

some people are idiots;
but more are smarter than you think.
both are found out after your denile of the truth.

Tsumaru
13th Jun 2008, 04:45
Am I the only person who thinks that this topic is just degenerating into total incomprehensibility now?

Kneo24
13th Jun 2008, 21:55
And I beg to differ some people here since there are numerous areas where we pretty much all agree: ammo, vehicules, skills, music, inventory, interface, ect...


I still don't understand why you think a consensus is somehow all encompassing of what should be looked at and considered. A lot of people who give their input aren't apt to apply their thinking critically.

Prime Example: Universal Ammo

"Durh, it sucked in IW, so it couldn't possible work ever again even if it was somehow modified to be less sucky!"

If I was a Dev, would I take **** like that seriously? Hell no. Comments along those lines aren't useful feedback. They're often not even structured in a way for the feedback to be useful as criticism.

The fact is, a lot of people around here can't even begin to properly express their thoughts. So in that case, why should the developers take a consensus as "good suggestions"?

Larington
14th Jun 2008, 07:17
Yeah, I've personally come across plenty of armchair game designers and frankly, I've started reading other peoples suggestions (Generally, not specific to any one forum) with a pinch of salt, watching for things such as personal bias or favouritism to a particular playstyle.

But I've seen cases where a proposed idea in a game is multitudes better than an idea that the developers have put into the game. Best example I have at the moment is a game called Planetside, for a bit of background, this is sort of a Battlefield on steroids where instead of fighting over a small battlefield you're fighting over entire continents/worlds. Theres a whole certification system where you buy which weapons and equipment you can field in battle, from hand held weapons to tanks, troop transports and so on.

In this case, the developers had (As far as I can tell) been told to introduce battlemechs (Under the name Battle Frame Robotics, or BFRs), probably as some sort of sneaky marketting scheme to try and get the players who like the battlemech games to go and give planetside a try. Problem is you're introducing a one man super tank into the game where previously the biggest thing you could get was a 2 man main battle tank. On top of this they give it a regenerating shield and the ability to swap out the weapon system for different roles (Anti-Air, Anti-Infantry, Anti-Vehicular), it could sidestep out of the way of bombing runs (Unless said BFR pilot was an idiot) and even the anti-air or anti-vehicle weapons could eliminate troops trying to get up close and under the shield. To add to that, you could get a flight variant that has a jump jet system that basically gives the pilot a get out of trouble free card (And a faster running speed).

The result was predictably disasterous, bad implementation I'd probably argue and it was subsequently nerfed very heavily. The real tragedy at the time is that the community had been having a brilliant concepting session in the official forums for 'outfit cruisers' bought using the outfit points earned in battle (Outfit=Guild btw), this as opposed to the BFRs was a multi-crew airborne, but slow moving unit which required at least 4/5 people to be effective, which complements the rest of the games teamwork aspect. So, there are cases where the community can know better than the developers (Or more accurately, the developers bosses) what to put into a game, but often this is an exception rather than the rule.

Maximus
17th Jun 2008, 06:29
Interesting debate all around. I hope i wasn't too zen for you guys :)

As a bonus for reading so far, I have an interesting bug for you guys. When you replay Deus Ex next time, and you come across a locked door, try picking the lock with one pick, pressing G (or I) and waiting 30 seconds, and then press G again. The lock should be picked and only use one lockpick.

Maybe you guys all know this, but i found it out awhile back and haven't seen it on any other sites. I play the GOTY version with no patches applied. Give it a try!

Maximus

gamer0004
17th Jun 2008, 10:39
It's a very well known glitch I believe. It works with mulitools too.

AaronJ
17th Jun 2008, 13:18
Bury this. Stop posting in it.

Bury this. Stop posting in it.

Maximus
18th Jun 2008, 04:29
Mint. It means i can get all my augmentation upgrades :)

Global, chill out tough guy. Your robot-style posts are starting to get repetitive. Just add a *beep* after the end for congruency's sake.

Its an important point that i will reiterate here: the reason DX1 was so good was because the developers had a vision and followed it. We should not try and interfere with that! We will **** it up to spite ourselves :)

Anyway, i think i've made the point so feel free to go back to what you were saying about ammo and which game was better and stuff. Needed to be said. Much love to you all :)

maximus

Tsumaru
18th Jun 2008, 04:32
Bury this. Stop posting in it.Bury this. Stop posting in it.
Bury this. Stop posting in it.

Jerion
18th Jun 2008, 06:11
chill out, global. I agree.

Oh wait, I posted.

So does this mean I don't get the job?

gamer0004
18th Jun 2008, 15:27
Bury this. Stop posting in it.

*Beeb*