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Bluey71
8th Jun 2008, 10:41
I've noticed the phrase 'Deus Ex like' in a couple of other games reviews, including Mass Effect http://masseffect.bioware.com/

Has anyone here tried it out? Thoughts? Might make a nice distraction while I wait for DX3.

mouse
8th Jun 2008, 11:00
No.. I wait until it's in the bargain bin


I'm looking forward for Fallout 3 and Alpha Protocol though... so there're three nice games in the making which might have or are expected to have some deusexesque features :cool:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
8th Jun 2008, 14:16
Yeah, I'd like some opinions from anyone who has played Mass Effect.
It looks pretty good, but I've learned from experience that opinions are better than pictures. ;)

Larington
8th Jun 2008, 14:23
I dunno, the bioware of today is not the bioware of the Baldur's Gate period, I guess what I'm saying is that, somewhere along the way, I lost faith in their ability to produce truly mind blowing games and I'm not even sure if thats a fair thing of me to have done (Or I'm just afraid I'll try it and end up being dissapointed).

I'm probably going to play Age of Conan a bit more before I consider trying that, since I'm enjoying AoC quite a bit now that I've gotten in to it.

Its a shame really, that there haven't been more games like Baldurs Gate (In gameplay as well as story), that style of game sort of got nixed by the move to 3D in a not good way...

Fen
8th Jun 2008, 16:12
Im currently working my way through Mass effect. Its not perfect, but its not bad. Well so far at least. Id reccomend it to anyone looking for a distraction before deus ex 3 comes out. id also like to see some things taken from mass effect because it does have some nice features.

minus0ne
8th Jun 2008, 17:30
It's an OK game, combat is truly horrible though, you can tell it's a BioWare title ;) The whole ducking for cover is horribly forced and doesn't feel right (and enemies actually hit you even if you're hiding behind solid cover). Finished the first mission but haven't felt very compelled to play on (probably will though).

Also it's just as buggy as any BioWare title, but luckily not to the extent that it's a bad port - however it does feel like you're playing a port (I can barely believe it took them 4 months to do this little), which is a shame.

Bluey71
8th Jun 2008, 19:13
Hmm the other possibility is Alpha Protocol

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showforum=67

It's a sad fact, RPG's like Dx just arnt around these days.

AaronJ
9th Jun 2008, 01:11
They said S.T.A.L.K.E.R. was DX-like. No. Just no.

sea
9th Jun 2008, 03:36
Mass Effect is an excellent game, and you shouldn't believe anyone who says otherwise. While it's true that it's not quite as extensively arr-pee-gee as other games (it's definitely more mainstream-oriented), that's not a bad thing. The squad-based shooting isn't as tight as in a game like Gears of War, but it's still plenty of fun and the variety between the character classes more than makes up for it. Structurally, it's very similar to Knights of the Old Republic.

The one thing it does really, really well, though, is presentation. It is the first game that has ever really given you the impression that you are playing a film. The writing, voice-acting, soundtrack, etc. are some of the best I've seen in a game, and are more than worth the price of admission in my opinion. It's still a BioWare game, which means it falls into the same pits that most fans are familiar with (low difficulty, awkward inventory systems, bugs), but none of them are a major detriment to the experience. If you've got a computer that can run it and are a fan of role-playing games that doesn't mind if they aren't as hardcore as Dungeons & Dragons, then you really have no excuse if you have the hardware to run it. I'd say even fans of typical shooters will be pleased.

DXeXodus
9th Jun 2008, 04:42
They said S.T.A.L.K.E.R. was DX-like. No. Just no.

I actually felt that S.T.A.L.K.E.R. was kind of DX-like. It had many elements that reminded me of DX. The inventory, food and drink systems, Similar mission types sometimes. It just had that gritty feel that I love so much.

It isn't 100% DX-like of course, but you have to be blind to miss the few similarities.

Another game that I think was DX-like was Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.

iWait
9th Jun 2008, 06:54
Mass Effect is a great game, challenging, fun, varying, good character development based on your actions, and like KotOR, it's difficult to explore everything.

minus0ne
9th Jun 2008, 08:01
While I applaud ME's movie feel and references, I do hope game developers will learn one day that heavy use of film grain, motion blur and depth of field have no place in ANY game.

Seriously, why would I want my PC graphics to emulate a mixture of the human eye, a camera and bloody VHS - I've got other hardware for just that purpose :rolleyes:

That said ME does feel like a rollercoaster made out of SF references, with mixed results. Don't trust people who praise this game to high heaven screaming GOTY (they're wrong), just play it for yourself and see if you like it.

Now Fallout 3, there are some possibilities - If Bethesda somehow manages to un-oblivionize it, that could be an awesome game.

DXeXodus
9th Jun 2008, 10:30
Now Fallout 3, there are some possibilities - If Bethesda somehow manages to un-oblivionize it, that could be an awesome game.

Agreed. It does kinda look like Oblivion with guns, but that is purely an engine thing.

redmanc
9th Jun 2008, 12:15
deusexesque features :cool:

Try saying that when you have had a drink:mad2:

minus0ne
9th Jun 2008, 16:54
Agreed. It does kinda look like Oblivion with guns, but that is purely an engine thing.
Well it goes a little deeper than that. Fact is they're severely toning down the content compared to the original games, trying to appease the ESRB and the Jack Thompsons of this world. Of course this is an American game so they're all but removing themes like slavery, prostitution, drugs, etc. which were integral to the original games. Much like Oblivion, which is devoid of any mature and complex themes and moments (and still managed to make the news in a negative way, which seems to be why Bethesda are scared ****less).

jcp28
9th Jun 2008, 22:59
Well it goes a little deeper than that. Fact is they're severely toning down the content compared to the original games, trying to appease the ESRB and the Jack Thompsons of this world. Of course this is an American game so they're all but removing themes like slavery, prostitution, drugs, etc. which were integral to the original games. Much like Oblivion, which is devoid of any mature and complex themes and moments (and still managed to make the news in a negative way, which seems to be why Bethesda are scared ****less).

I suppose that they are probably more worried about sales because of piracy, then?

I haven't played mass effect. S.T.A.L.K.E.R, however, was one cool game partly because of it's setting and other similarities it had to Deus Ex. The way in which you went about your missions along with the inventory was friggin' cool.

pauldenton
22nd Jun 2008, 16:29
Been playing 'mass effect' for a couple of days,

it's a very deep game in its detail and worthy of DX fans to expore right now.

biggest gripe is that you may as well be in a wheelchair in the game as you cannot climb anything or jump and the combat feels sloppy, getting tired of the overheating guns that lack accuracy and not being able to pick up any spoils off the enemy seems a bit naff - i felt i was shortchanged of a reward!

but its graphics, depth and production values are incredible.

The realistic faces and eyes really add to the immersion.

This game after a coulple of days appears to come pretty close to DX, if the combat was better and the game a little more focused rather than adding a million pointless side quests then it could have topped dx.

DX is still king, but Mass effect gives it a run for its money - after all these years it's about time. hopefully the production values and level of detail on DX 3 will be able to rival mass effect, if it can and can keep a strong DX theme then we should be in for a real treat.

mad_red
22nd Jun 2008, 16:58
Try saying that when you have had a drink:mad2:

[ahem]

"do-you-sex-sex" :nut:

:mad2:

SageSavage
22nd Jun 2008, 17:55
Everyone here should give Vampires - The Masquerade: Bloodlines a try. I was excited about lots of similarities between Stalker and Deus Ex but all the boring walking and also the tedious sidequests turned me off again.

I haven't bought Mass Effect yet because I don't want to support their crappy DRM scheme - especially not at the retail price.

MaxxQ1
22nd Jun 2008, 19:29
Been playing 'mass effect' for a couple of days,

it's a very deep game in its detail and worthy of DX fans to expore right now.

biggest gripe is that you may as well be in a wheelchair in the game as you cannot climb anything and the combat feels sloppy, getting tired of the overheating guns that lack accuracy and not being able to pick up any spoils off the enemy seems a bit naff - i felt i was shortchanged of a reward!

but its graphics, depth and production values are incredible.

The realistic faces and eyes really add to the immersion.

This game after a coulple of days appears to come pretty close to giving DX a run for it's money, if the combat was better and the game a little more focused rather than adding a million pointless side quests then it could have topped dx.

DX is still king, but Mass effect gives it a run for its money - after all these years it's about time. hopefully the production values and level of detail on DX 3 will be able to rival mass effect, if it can and can keep a strong DX theme then we should be in for a real treat.

I just got back from buying Mass Effect, partly based on reviews I've read, as well as your mini review.

So if I hate it, I know who to yell at.:rasp:

jcp28
22nd Jun 2008, 19:34
Everyone here should give Vampires - The Masquerade: Bloodlines a try. I was excited about lots of similarities between Stalker and Deus Ex but all the boring walking and also the tedious sidequests turned me off again.

I haven't bought Mass Effect yet because I don't want to support their crappy DRM scheme - especially not at the retail price.


Bloodlines had it's faults, but all in all, I thought it was a pretty good RPG that gave you lots of choices as to how you wanted to play.

pauldenton
23rd Jun 2008, 22:12
I just got back from buying Mass Effect, partly based on reviews I've read, as well as your mini review.

So if I hate it, I know who to yell at.:rasp:

Let us know what you think when you get the chance.

MaxxQ1
24th Jun 2008, 02:23
Let us know what you think when you get the chance.

So far, I haven't even completed the first mission. I'm just trying to get the graphics settings right. For some odd reason, everything in the background looks pixelated, like a JPG that's been zoomed in on a little too much, and it's annoying as hell. If that's their idea of depth of field, I need to disable it.

Also, I'm a bit irked at the "aim-assist". Too "consoley" for me. I'll try it a bit longer, but if I can't get used to it by the end of the second mission, I'm gonna disable that as well (if I can).

Other than that, it seems to be fun, and I like the choices you can make in the conversations (BTW, I like the dialogue selection method). Upgrade options (both personal and for weaponry) are very Deus Ex-like, as are the "skill" points.

I've had a few temporary lockups, which are irritating, but not gamebreaking. They usually occur at the beginning of a gun battle, and last anywhere from 5 to 20 seconds. That's probably my comp and videocard, since I'm only running an Athlon 64 3700+ and an ATI Radeon X1950 Pro. I can't wait 'til next year when I get my tax return. EVERYTHING's getting upgraded.

rhalibus
24th Jun 2008, 10:03
I just finished Mass Effect for the PC. A great story, epic feel and deep conversation tree, but it's in 3rd-person and the solutions are still a bit linear. There is nothing that matches the immersive power of Deus Ex; no events like your decision in the fate of Lebedev, watching Simons execute the NSF prisoners, or hearing Icarus for the first time.

Mass Effect is more like Invisible War--more "choose your own adventure" rather than "find your own solution". Great graphics, though.

So far, the closest I've ever come to another Deus Ex feel is STALKER and Steve Tack's ZODIAC Deus Ex mod.

pauldenton
24th Jun 2008, 15:00
So far, I haven't even completed the first mission. I'm just trying to get the graphics settings right. For some odd reason, everything in the background looks pixelated, like a JPG that's been zoomed in on a little too much, and it's annoying as hell. If that's their idea of depth of field, I need to disable it.

Also, I'm a bit irked at the "aim-assist". Too "consoley" for me. I'll try it a bit longer, but if I can't get used to it by the end of the second mission, I'm gonna disable that as well (if I can).

Other than that, it seems to be fun, and I like the choices you can make in the conversations (BTW, I like the dialogue selection method). Upgrade options (both personal and for weaponry) are very Deus Ex-like, as are the "skill" points.

I've had a few temporary lockups, which are irritating, but not gamebreaking. They usually occur at the beginning of a gun battle, and last anywhere from 5 to 20 seconds. That's probably my comp and videocard, since I'm only running an Athlon 64 3700+ and an ATI Radeon X1950 Pro. I can't wait 'til next year when I get my tax return. EVERYTHING's getting upgraded.


I switched off what i consider the gimmicks -

film grain
motion blur
and auto aim

once done i believe the game is much better, looks better and the frame rate improves a lot also.

thanks for the update.

MaxxQ1
24th Jun 2008, 15:07
I switched off what i consider the gimmicks -

film grain
motion blur
and auto aim

once done i believe the game is much better, looks better and the frame rate improves a lot also.

thanks for the update.

NP. Last night, I was able to get rid of the DOF. It was just too damn distracting. Since they're in-game options, I killed film grain and motion blur right away. Auto-aim is still mildly annoying, but I've set it to minimum for now. Still playing around with other settings and tweaking the .ini files, but I've finally made it through the prologue.

pauldenton
24th Jun 2008, 17:56
NP. Last night, I was able to get rid of the DOF. It was just too damn distracting. Since they're in-game options, I killed film grain and motion blur right away. Auto-aim is still mildly annoying, but I've set it to minimum for now. Still playing around with other settings and tweaking the .ini files, but I've finally made it through the prologue.


Interesting, i never bothered to check the ini but now i have finished the game i may play around just for fun.

OK update,

I removed the depth of field that was in the .ini settings as you suggested which appears to also speed up the frame rate as well.

Though game now loses some of it's film like qualities, especially on the cut scenes but gains clarity and can be less distracting in the game itself.

I could live with either.

I also switched on the bodies to stay after death so they don't disapear after just a few seconds which seems rather unatural and takes away some of the immersion and atmosphere, fortunately I haven't noticed any big performance hit to speak of when doing this.

Here is a tweak guide that i checked out that covers all the details, for anyone who may be interested.

http://www.tweakguides.com/ME_1.html

MaxxQ1
25th Jun 2008, 01:55
Yep...that's the tweak guide I've been using.

pauldenton
2nd Jul 2008, 05:26
Hey Maxx,

I take it back about the DOF, after playing the game through without it after hearing you comments and then later switching it back on, it looks terrible switched on in default and It's definately worth seeking out the ini tweek for this as well as switching on dead bodies to stay longer.

The game is so much clearer and faster without all the junk gimmicks -
motion blur, film grain, DOF.

I'm on my second playthrough and this time i selected different team mates which changes the mood of the game more than you would think. It's not until you make a second run through with different squad mates and choices that you realise how much effort went into the game and how replayable it is.

In some ways it's a bit like DX in that you can make different choices. there isn't a set path as clearly defined as in most other games, yet it doesnt go too far off track that it gets lost.

Could certainly have done with some more refinement from the PC gamer crowd, including more setting choices, but a good effort and worthy of the money for once.

Still here are my Biggest gripes though don't let these put you off the game -

1. too many lifts
2. sloppy guns and overheating
3. vehicle looked way to small in standard view and lacked versatility.
4. third person view.
5. no space ship combat
6. some rather pointless and boring filler planets
7. dissapearing bodies after just a few seconds
8. too many film effect gimmics that look worse and slow the game down.
9. lack of jumping and climbing

Kevyne-Shandris
2nd Jul 2008, 17:03
Also it's just as buggy as any BioWare title

Glad someone else noticed. Got into a l-o-n-g argument with Bioware fanbois of late over Bioware's Infinity engine. Only about 5 apps have I ever had that not only CTD, had BSODs, and couldn't get to work right let alone playable, and one of them was Icewind Dale, which used Bioware's game engine. Worse upon worse was the menu itself was buggy, making it playable work, not gaming.

Never got another Bioware anything from then on.

MaxxQ1
3rd Jul 2008, 02:24
Hey Maxx,

I take it back about the DOF, after playing the game through without it after hearing you comments and then later switching it back on, it looks terrible switched on in default and It's definately worth seeking out the ini tweek for this as well as switching on dead bodies to stay longer.

The game is so much clearer and faster without all the junk gimmicks -
motion blur, film grain, DOF.

Yeah...I got rid of all that stuff for those reasons, not to mention my comp is basically 2 years old. Although I have to admit that I'm playing it at 1650x1080 with textures set to High, with only the occasional hiccup.


I'm on my second playthrough and this time i selected different team mates which changes the mood of the game more than you would think. It's not until you make a second run through with different squad mates and choices that you realise how much effort went into the game and how replayable it is.

In some ways it's a bit like DX in that you can make different choices. there isn't a set path as clearly defined as in most other games, yet it doesnt go too far off track that it gets lost.

Could certainly have done with some more refinement from the PC gamer crowd, including more setting choices, but a good effort and worthy of the money for once.

Still here are my Biggest gripes though don't let these put you off the game -

1. too many lifts
2. sloppy guns and overheating
3. vehicle looked way to small in standard view and lacked versatility.
4. third person view.
5. no space ship combat
6. some rather pointless and boring filler planets
7. dissapearing bodies after just a few seconds
8. too many film effect gimmics that look worse and slow the game down.
9. lack of jumping and climbing

1. Agreed
2. The overheating is annoying, but I'm not sure what you mean by "sloppy".
3. My biggest problem with the Mako is that I can't suspend my disbelief when I'm going UP an 85 degree cliff face
4. Agreed
5. Agreed, although not really necessary, IMO.
6. Agreed
7. There's a tweak, I think, that will allow them to stick around longer. No biggie to me.
8. BIG TIME agreed.
9. Definitely.

I've also noticed it's a bit like DX in the choices you make, although from what I understand, the choices don't affect the outcome at all - there's only one ending. (Hehe....the DX theme music just came up on my iTunes...good timing :thumbsup: ). Storywise, the game strikes me as a combo of Babylon 5 (The Citadel, the Council), Battlestar Galactica (the Quarians), and minor nods to other shows and/or games.

As for stability, I've had no gamestoppers. A couple of minor lockups during dialogue that started back up after just a few seconds, and once when I was outside the Mako in the mountains somewhere, I somehow fell through the mountain and was walking on thin air INSIDE the mountain, but not going anywhere. Had to reload a save, but it was only a few minutes of lost time. No CTD's, no bluescreens, nothing major for me.

I'm having fun playing the game, and it seems good enough to help pass the time until Far Cry 2, the next Crysis, and maybe Fallout 3 come out. Those three, as well as another playthrough of DX, might even keep me busy for a good portion of the wait for DX3.

My biggest gripe is probably the repetitiveness of some of the building interiors, but I kinda justify that by saying they're on colony worlds and the buildings are probably pre-fabs. Still, you'd think the interiors would be different just to reflect the likes of those living or working in them.

Romeo
3rd Jul 2008, 08:04
Paul, you can climb things in Mass Effect, you just have to be relatively close, and they have to be realistically climbable. Secondly, auto-aim is completely adjustable in severity, if you don't like it, turn it off. Lastly, though the combat is quite poor, everything else in ME picks up the slack, ESPECIALLY the conversations. Hopefully Deus Ex will take some notes on that front, we should all be so fortunate.

PS: Maxx, any idea when Far Cry 2 is supposed to come out, and whether it'll still feature genetic modification themes? I had heard you weren't Jack Carver, but rather some mercenary, and I didn't see any semblance of animal splicing in the gameplay video.

MaxxQ1
3rd Jul 2008, 15:49
Paul, you can climb things in Mass Effect, you just have to be relatively close, and they have to be realistically climbable. Secondly, auto-aim is completely adjustable in severity, if you don't like it, turn it off. Lastly, though the combat is quite poor, everything else in ME picks up the slack, ESPECIALLY the conversations. Hopefully Deus Ex will take some notes on that front, we should all be so fortunate.

PS: Maxx, any idea when Far Cry 2 is supposed to come out, and whether it'll still feature genetic modification themes? I had heard you weren't Jack Carver, but rather some mercenary, and I didn't see any semblance of animal splicing in the gameplay video.

Yeah, I forgot to mention earlier that I finally turned off auto-aim.

Far Cry 2 is supposed to be out in October, and you're right - the game has NOTHING to do with Far Cry. Here's the Wiki synopsis of the game:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Cry_2

gamer0004
3rd Jul 2008, 15:51
Wow that rocks! 'Cause I never played Far Cry just because of it's lame story. Monsters/aliens, whatever they were: WHY?

MaxxQ1
3rd Jul 2008, 16:12
Wow that rocks! 'Cause I never played Far Cry just because of it's lame story. Monsters/aliens, whatever they were: WHY?

They were genetically altered monkeys and humans, made in attempt to have an unstoppable army (the usual "black" gov't project plot device), that got out of control. The thing is, you're only fighting the mutants through the last half of the game or so.

Romeo
3rd Jul 2008, 17:09
It also provided a lovely muse in which to judge the protagonist, because he begins to act more and more like an animal later on, but he's still obviously human, which allowed the player to question whether it was a feral rage or human desire that led him to killing. It was also a fairly interesting story, and allowed for an even more open-ended approach to situations. Honestly, that's what I'll always remember about FarCry: The ridiculous number of ways to tackle each and every minor battle.