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jcp28
31st May 2008, 01:03
I put this out because I don't look at it as impossible for Eidos Montreal to pull something stupid and make Paul look like some tough guy. From DX 1, you could tell he was never the sort to barge in and kill everybody. And once he realized in Hong Kong what was going on, he started taking less lives himself, and reminded his brother that they were police when JC arrived in New York. Obviously, the player should have the choice of choosing whatever gameplay style he or she wants, but try to keep it within Paul's personality. Like if you are given the option to say threatening things, it should be stated in a somewhat nicer way than JC might say it. However, it should still make the other person mad or pull out a gun or something.


Or heck, we don't even need Paul as a playable character. Who needs to play as a good guy? We could have Gunther Hermann becoming a new agent amid protests over the first mechs. Also, I'd like to see how Walton Simons rose through the ranks, other than he was probably from some rich family. Hell, I might even rather play him as the protagonist because I see him as someone like JC Denton, because neither of them really have much personality, so far as I can tell, and they're both pretty much committed to their job, whether it be hunting down JC (Simons) or trying to find UCs and stop MJ12( JC Denton)


But naturally, dollar signs pretty much say Paul will be the likely star, so I'll just sit back and see what happens.

Maximus
31st May 2008, 02:09
Deus Ex 3: Illuminati Simulator

Worship JABULON as you rise though the ranks of this ultra-secret society. Have your name taken from you, and sit in a deserted French cathedral guarding gold as you watch the humanity burn away from augmented agents! Reactivate boxes within boxes!

I for one hope that there is a lot of sex in the new game. There isnt enough sex in games!

Maxi

DEA7H
31st May 2008, 04:39
Deus Ex 3: Illuminati Simulator

Worship JABULON as you rise though the ranks of this ultra-secret society. Have your name taken from you, and sit in a deserted French cathedral guarding gold as you watch the humanity burn away from augmented agents! Reactivate boxes within boxes!

I for one hope that there is a lot of sex in the new game. There isnt enough sex in games!

Maxi

Lol... That makes me laugh. I would be happy if you could play as just JC. Also, I know I go against just about every Deus Ex fan, but I wouldn't mind seeing Alex in there. I know I'm gonna catch it for that one.

Gary_Savage
31st May 2008, 04:56
@jcp28

Your qualms about Paul arise from his behavior in DX1. He may have, however, behaved very differently, in the past. Perhaps he was all gung-ho, at some point, but later became disillusioned. Perhaps some of the UNATCO agents had such misgivings about his current (at the time of DX1) behavior that they did not even talk about at time when he may have been less restrained. Certainly there is the possibility that he had once been reputed as a killer, since one of the sentries outside the UNATCO HQ, in DX1's mission 1, said "I thought you nano-augs were bad ass killing machines." I think this gives the player a lot of possibilities as to how to play the game. Part of the game could be set in the lead up to DX1, and also, part of the game could be set after Paul's having his kill switch deactivated in Hong Kong.

P.S. I am wondering if Eidos Montreal is thinking like Konami: have the game start with Paul, then, at some point (say, when you get into DX1 territory), have the player play as a totally new character, so as to give the player that complete freedom of character/role-playing/choice (choice between playing as good guy, or a bad guy).

Unstoppable
31st May 2008, 10:13
@jcp28

Your qualms about Paul arise from his behavior in DX1. He may have, however, behaved very differently, in the past. Perhaps he was all gung-ho, at some point, but later became disillusioned. Perhaps some of the UNATCO agents had such misgivings about his current (at the time of DX1) behavior that they did not even talk about at time when he may have been less restrained. Certainly there is the possibility that he had once been reputed as a killer, since one of the sentries outside the UNATCO HQ, in DX1's mission 1, said "I thought you nano-augs were bad ass killing machines." I think this gives the player a lot of possibilities as to how to play the game. Part of the game could be set in the lead up to DX1, and also, part of the game could be set after Paul's having his kill switch deactivated in Hong Kong.

P.S. I am wondering if Eidos Montreal is thinking like Konami: have the game start with Paul, then, at some point (say, when you get into DX1 territory), have the player play as a totally new character, so as to give the player that complete freedom of character/role-playing/choice (choice between playing as good guy, or a bad guy).

Exactly. There is no way to know how Paul behaved in the past. Clues can be derived from his statements when he tells JC that he killed a lot of people tonight. (First mission if you go on rampage).


http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t191/Zeoman1001/Eidos%20Hidden/Mod17.png

GruntOwner
31st May 2008, 10:55
P.S. I am wondering if Eidos Montreal is thinking like Konami: have the game start with Paul, then, at some point (say, when you get into DX1 territory), have the player play as a totally new character, so as to give the player that complete freedom of character/role-playing/choice (choice between playing as good guy, or a bad guy).

God I hope not. It would seriously kill immersion if having done some world altering awesomeness, as is a daily even in DX, you get dragged away from your charater and given someone else. People would react differently, and that would make them difficult to relate to as we knew them. You'd be in a completely new mindset when it came to your motivation and methods. The game should have 1 constant character throughout and let him discover people's other sides in ways that arn't experiencing them. IMO we don't even need to play as a Denton, though that's another subject.

Tsumaru
31st May 2008, 11:13
Honestly, I've been reading some of those older posts and people saying how they *want* to play as Paul.

Am I the only one who, when reading that, has three words pop into their head: "Why the f-ck?"

Seriously. Here you all are going on about how great the choices and diverse storylines and all that crap are in Deus Ex. Most of you want to see greater implications in regards to decisions you make in the game. You talk about storyline, perhaps a bit of the old plot twist, and all these things that made DX1 great. And then you turn around and say "Screw all that - I don't want any of those things, in truth. I just want to play as Paul Denton!"

Or at least, that's how it sounds to me. Why?

1. Paul Denton has a personality already (as discussed in this thread) - you can't viably make him Y or Z when he's already set out as X. Yes, sure, maybe he changes, maybe he matures, whatever. But the fact is, it's inconsistent to have a jump from complete a-hole who doesn't care about anybody to somebody who then respects the life in all people. It's just too big a gap. It wouldn't feel right for me to play as Paul, knowing how he turns out, and yet trying to make him go down the "bad guy" route.
2. Paul Denton has a history already. How can you possibly play as him in his past (assuming a prequel)? First, Paul was part of UNATCO. Then he was part of the NSF. End of story. Where is the suspense? Where is the choice? Where is any of the thrill? It completely eliminates all the things which made DX1 remarkable (or at least to me). There couldn't possibly be any "decision endings" - or at least not on any scale similar to DX1 or DX:IW which is actually world-changing. Okay, sure, we don't know all the stuff he did in Hong Kong or all that. But in reality, it's still not going to work viably. You're going to be dealing with characters which in a few short years have specific personalities, lives and histories. There won't be any choice. You will merely be playing the story - like any regular FPS - except that you already know half the ending to this one.
3. There will be little few new important characters. You will be dealing predominantly with people from the later games, as mentioned in the previous point. I know a lot of you would love to go back to DX1, but in my opinion it would be *too* reminiscent of DX1. I want to play a NEW game. Sure, nostalgia is great, but I would feel disappointed not being able to interact with new people. Yeah, Jock was awesome... but who else is out there? You will be dealing with Manderley, Hermann, Nevarre, Tong... a lot of it will be very similar to the first game. I dunno about the rest of you, but I'd rather something fresh. Not just something which feels like a stale expansion pack with upgraded graphics and gameplay. New characters, new storylines, new locations (or maybe modified - the snowy ruins of Liberty Island in DX:IW were nice, but it wouldn't have been as good to go back to something identical to how you left it in DX1).

I dunno about the rest of you, but that's just how I feel. I would probably hate to play as Paul Denton. I just can't see it working.

gamer0004
31st May 2008, 15:05
@jcp28

Your qualms about Paul arise from his behavior in DX1. He may have, however, behaved very differently, in the past. Perhaps he was all gung-ho, at some point, but later became disillusioned. Perhaps some of the UNATCO agents had such misgivings about his current (at the time of DX1) behavior that they did not even talk about at time when he may have been less restrained. Certainly there is the possibility that he had once been reputed as a killer, since one of the sentries outside the UNATCO HQ, in DX1's mission 1, said "I thought you nano-augs were bad ass killing machines." I think this gives the player a lot of possibilities as to how to play the game. Part of the game could be set in the lead up to DX1, and also, part of the game could be set after Paul's having his kill switch deactivated in Hong Kong.

P.S. I am wondering if Eidos Montreal is thinking like Konami: have the game start with Paul, then, at some point (say, when you get into DX1 territory), have the player play as a totally new character, so as to give the player that complete freedom of character/role-playing/choice (choice between playing as good guy, or a bad guy).

The game does at least hint that Paul never was a rambo.

Tracer Tong
31st May 2008, 16:59
Exactly. There is no way to know how Paul behaved in the past. Clues can be derived from his statements when he tells JC that he killed a lot of people tonight. (First mission if you go on rampage).

The reason for that is that he worked for the NSF at that time and wanted the protection of his allies...

Anxoius FAN
31st May 2008, 17:41
the character choice is important, but don't you think that maybe it would be interesting to play through the great collapse that ocurred at the end of DX1

maybe then you could play as Paul. since he was the type of character that would rather help than destroy. DouH! He was Frozen in DX2, now that idea just went out the window. maybe it would be better to not play Paul, or maybe even a denton, as in DX1 in Area51 Alex denton was seen in a machine, creating a sequel character, But no evidence of another one in DX2.

(BTW DX1 is and always will be the best thought out plot of any game ,EVER!!! DX2 Was Gud 2 Though)

Absentia
31st May 2008, 20:31
Honestly, I've been reading some of those older posts and people saying how they *want* to play as Paul.

Am I the only one who, when reading that, has three words pop into their head: "Why the f-ck?"

Seriously. Here you all are going on about how great the choices and diverse storylines and all that crap are in Deus Ex. Most of you want to see greater implications in regards to decisions you make in the game. You talk about storyline, perhaps a bit of the old plot twist, and all these things that made DX1 great. And then you turn around and say "Screw all that - I don't want any of those things, in truth. I just want to play as Paul Denton!"

Or at least, that's how it sounds to me. Why?

1. Paul Denton has a personality already (as discussed in this thread) - you can't viably make him Y or Z when he's already set out as X. Yes, sure, maybe he changes, maybe he matures, whatever. But the fact is, it's inconsistent to have a jump from complete a-hole who doesn't care about anybody to somebody who then respects the life in all people. It's just too big a gap. It wouldn't feel right for me to play as Paul, knowing how he turns out, and yet trying to make him go down the "bad guy" route.
2. Paul Denton has a history already. How can you possibly play as him in his past (assuming a prequel)? First, Paul was part of UNATCO. Then he was part of the NSF. End of story. Where is the suspense? Where is the choice? Where is any of the thrill? It completely eliminates all the things which made DX1 remarkable (or at least to me). There couldn't possibly be any "decision endings" - or at least not on any scale similar to DX1 or DX:IW which is actually world-changing. Okay, sure, we don't know all the stuff he did in Hong Kong or all that. But in reality, it's still not going to work viably. You're going to be dealing with characters which in a few short years have specific personalities, lives and histories. There won't be any choice. You will merely be playing the story - like any regular FPS - except that you already know half the ending to this one.
3. There will be little few new important characters. You will be dealing predominantly with people from the later games, as mentioned in the previous point. I know a lot of you would love to go back to DX1, but in my opinion it would be *too* reminiscent of DX1. I want to play a NEW game. Sure, nostalgia is great, but I would feel disappointed not being able to interact with new people. Yeah, Jock was awesome... but who else is out there? You will be dealing with Manderley, Hermann, Nevarre, Tong... a lot of it will be very similar to the first game. I dunno about the rest of you, but I'd rather something fresh. Not just something which feels like a stale expansion pack with upgraded graphics and gameplay. New characters, new storylines, new locations (or maybe modified - the snowy ruins of Liberty Island in DX:IW were nice, but it wouldn't have been as good to go back to something identical to how you left it in DX1).

I dunno about the rest of you, but that's just how I feel. I would probably hate to play as Paul Denton. I just can't see it working.

I TOTALLY agree with you.
I mean, despite everything that was wrong with it, at least in Invisible War they were smart enough to realise that in order to "be your own boss" you have to have a totally new character who nobody knows anything about already. It's pretty simple.
I don't want to play as any other character which has already been introduced, not even JC. I've love to meet JC and Paul as NPCs, whether they are significant to the storyline or not, but I'd really just like a new character, almost a blank canvas. Of course, personality traits can still easily apply to it - JC clearly had his own existing personality just in the way that he phrased his speech, but these implications were delicate enough that his dialogue and actions are convincing whether you're playing as Sam Fisher or Rambo.
I think the reason Alex wasnt a good playable character is just because he's TOO blank. At every opportunity, you were given moments that you could say something incredibly noble or be a complete A-hole, and the speech was as if it was being said by two different people. I guess "blank canvas" isn't the correct analogy, I meant more like a "template".
All this stuff about being Paul just annoys me. If you want another good Deus Ex game that you're not just going to moan about how its not as good as the first, then you're not going to be playing as Paul, or any pre-existing character.

On a side note - something that i liked from DX3 trailer is that one of the images said "Augmented people are not allowed here" or something. Whatever the context, I just love that theyre using the word "augmented" again. it's an awesome word. Warren Spector said about the second game that many of the words from the old game were "too polysyallbic" but that's what made the game feel so real, so mature. "Biomods" sounds like something out of a damn arcade game.

Tsumaru
1st Jun 2008, 00:22
At every opportunity, you were given moments that you could say something incredibly noble or be a complete A-hole, and the speech was as if it was being said by two different people.
Yeah, I picked up on that as well. They tried to introduce emotion into his speech depending on what choice you made. HOWEVER - often conversations would start where you had no choice. So you might have a few lines where Alex is listening closely, almost considering what they're saying, responding with valid points but not being aggressive.. and then you get a choice, and you can say something aggressive and dismissive, not caring what they have to say at all. It sounds completely out-of-place. JC Denton worked because his tone was almost consistently the same as his personality - cold, calculated, efficient. He may have *cared*, but he didn't show it in an emotional way. He wasn't emotionless though; you will notice he has a sense of humour. But even then, it's a dry wit that fits the rest of his character. Ie...
JC Denton: "How are the drinks here?"
Renault: "Great if you like rat piss."
JC Denton: "Never tried it."
It seemed that no matter what choice you made, it seemed to fit in with JC. There were slight changes in tone, but always minimal, and never seemed to completely flip around his personality. Alex D just didn't work in most conversations unless you picked the "right" response.

jcp28
1st Jun 2008, 01:54
Well, it sure appears here that a few people here would NOT want to play Paul as the main character.

But here's one of the main problems here. Besides that fact that Paul would be good for marketing purposes to help give players familiarity, there's also the question of who could possibly fill a similar role filled by JC. Jordan Shea? I figure it has to be someone that's mech-augmented somehow.

And if a completely new character is created, there's a paradox that pretty much says that character has to either die or go into retirement since he or she can't appear in DX 1. And honestly, I don't think certain people here would want to play a game where this character would disappear off the face of the Earth because of the whole "WTF" moment that would follow. So that leaves playing as some established character.

Tsumaru
1st Jun 2008, 06:31
Your assumption being that it's a prequel, which - in my opinion - is completely unfounded.

J.CDenton
1st Jun 2008, 09:00
Well as long as we don't even know anything about the script we can only speculate of what will be in the game. But for Paul...I agree I don't want to play with him. I prefer to play a totaly unkown character and not a common NPC we can find in DX. Don't want to play a "Deux Ex 3 : Ghunter Hermann's und der Zkull Gun Quezt"...

GruntOwner
1st Jun 2008, 10:41
Well, it sure appears here that a few people here would NOT want to play Paul as the main character.

But here's one of the main problems here. Besides that fact that Paul would be good for marketing purposes to help give players familiarity, there's also the question of who could possibly fill a similar role filled by JC. Jordan Shea? I figure it has to be someone that's mech-augmented somehow.

And if a completely new character is created, there's a paradox that pretty much says that character has to either die or go into retirement since he or she can't appear in DX 1. And honestly, I don't think certain people here would want to play a game where this character would disappear off the face of the Earth because of the whole "WTF" moment that would follow. So that leaves playing as some established character.

As Tsumaru says, this assumption that it's a prequel has no evidence to support it, the teaser was a teaser and if you look at GlobalNode's thread about it being a prequel you will quickly see from several posts that there is no evidence of a prequel. In response to playing as someone new, you don't have to die or not exist by the end. The fact that JC was famous for the collapse is one of the things that shocked me. He caused the collapse at area 51 and then beggered off to antarctica. How people found out about him was unexplained. Put simply, no one should have known, and the same applies to the potential fate of DX3's character. /also, you might just have been out of the way, working the rest of Europe, or in the more subtle positions of the USA, such as the white house and other areas that were avoided in DX. What do we know about the coup de'tat of Paris? That MJ12 started patrolling the streets, besieged the catacombs and had a gun on the president when he announced the surrender. That's a lot of things we missed that could be explored further. President Mead was never mentioned in the game bar the opeining cutscenes and some of the models that didn't even get used. Just because you're on a different questline, doesn't mean your's has to be important in parelell. Perhaps all your missions will covered up because they are too embaressing to the enemies, perhaps you're just not mentioned in the cause. It might have been you that helped The NSF get some of the ambrosia, but for different reasons. Your boss might be in need, or if you don't like him perhaps you're just being a nice guy, and failing that, you can keep some for yourself to be inn a position of power. These are just examples if it's going on at the same time as DX, though are meant to show how there can still be an illusion of choice even if you are just following a nice little train track. DX managed it fine, and this can too.

Hidlegram
7th Jun 2008, 11:01
Either way, id be happy that it just continues on a pretty sweet story.

Boiny Bunny
18th Jun 2008, 04:13
Yes nobody can say for CERTAIN whether or not this game is a prequel or a sequel, nobody can say for CERTAIN who you'll be playing as, etc.

But it does seem quite likely that IF the game is a prequel, you will be playing as Paul Denton. The over-arching plot of the Deus Ex games revolves completely around the Denton brothers, and they already used JC in an appropriate era for his character, Alex in an appropriate era for his character, now IF they do a prequel, if they are going to have you play as a Denton, it would seem most likely that it will be Paul.

Also, it seems very unlikely that Alex will appear in the game, as it would probably annoy alot of players that it was a male/female while their character was not, etc.

Enough people were already annoyed at JC's personality being fixed in IW.

Paul Denton does have some potential problems, like has been pointed out, by the time JC is doing his first mission he has started to symphasize with the NSF and work with them, thus he encourages JC to not kill them all. Paul also seems to have a much 'lighter' personality than JC, but this wouldn't be hard to implement in game.

Lets not forget that as little as 6 months being forced into serious life and death situations, being forced to kill other people, and being gravely wounded, would rapidly change a person.

If indeed Paul were to be the protagonist, he may start the game as a headstrong brutal bastard, and quickly realise the error of his ways upon witnessing the suffering that he is causing or something similar.

I have to admit, they would need to be pretty careful with the ending to the game if it was a prequel though, it would need to not interfere with the start of DX's plot much.

Lo Bruto
18th Jun 2008, 07:31
Simons as the protagonist would kickass.

But I'm pretty sure the protagonist will be a new guy and a mech.

mad_red
18th Jun 2008, 08:14
Like the aliens said (and I posted in the Revelation thread for all the world to see): we'll be playing a nanomutated greasel trying to build the Omar. He won't be welcome in most eating establishments

Actually, we could be playing a top-secret prototype nano agent for the Russian government. He could be called Nuko Bellum and and be sent to the U.S. undercover! :D

jcp28
18th Jun 2008, 21:47
That wouldn't be bad, but it might take us out of the setting to be playing as somebody from a foreign country not in the other Deus Ex games. I suppose it would end at least partway with MJ12 eventually gaining enough power to make them contribute people to UNATCO or something. And maybe this guy(or girl) has to make a choice about whose side to pick but hopefully not at the end. But that's probably not going to happen since too much from DX ould be in the background. Too bad....

And the mention of international mechs brings something to mind about UNATCo that I found unrealistic. They were all American white guys, with seemingly no thought given to the foreigners that likely served in an "international force" besides the mechs Navarre and Hermann.

mad_red
19th Jun 2008, 13:06
That wouldn't be bad, but it might take us out of the setting to be playing as somebody from a foreign country not in the other Deus Ex games. I suppose it would end at least partway with MJ12 eventually gaining enough power to make them contribute people to UNATCO or something. And maybe this guy(or girl) has to make a choice about whose side to pick but hopefully not at the end. But that's probably not going to happen since too much from DX ould be in the background. Too bad....


I was part serious. It opens a lot of new possibilities. You could be working with basically anyone; NSF, UNATCO, MJ12, as well as various factions from back home. You could be having all kinds of mods that UNATCO doesn't have the technology developed for, and so on and so forth. Which country you will be spending time in depends entirely on the plot.

Anyway, just and idea.



And the mention of international mechs brings something to mind about UNATCo that I found unrealistic. They were all American white guys, with seemingly no thought given to the foreigners that likely served in an "international force" besides the mechs Navarre and Hermann.

Yeah, now you mention it...