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AaronJ
22nd May 2008, 18:32
Deus Ex has taken a giant blow today. Long time clan Alpha has given up on Deus Ex. One of the three leaders [A]lex claimed that they were being DoS'ed by DejaVu, long time DXMP villain who is commonly known as the "Deus Ex Hitler" for his destruction of all non-augged servers. [A]lex also claimed that the forum would come back online with big changes, and the Cathedral Terra RPG server will be running until January. The official statement from Alpha is located here. (http://www.criminalsrpg.eu/alpha/)

This marks the ending of Deus Ex Multiplayer. It also proves that if Deus Ex 3 is a game that aims to please the fans and keep the community going, it needs multiplayer.

sea
22nd May 2008, 18:57
People played Deus Ex multiplayer? News to me. I just assumed it was sort of some unfinished menu option that crashed the game if you clicked on it.

jordan_a
22nd May 2008, 20:16
People played Deus Ex multiplayer?They did, it was very funny!

Blade_hunter
22nd May 2008, 21:21
I played to DX MP too and for me it was funny, thats is the reason I want a Multiplayer too with DX features I agree the game needs an MP. I think an MP is a great addition for an SP game, perhaps they can make the MP more later like the DX MP and delivers the SDK for modding.
I think mods and MP extends significantly a game playability. If DX features and possibilities are great, the MP mods can be great like the game itself.

CyanideBlizzard
23rd May 2008, 00:59
This marks the ending of Deus Ex Multiplayer. It also proves that if Deus Ex 3 is a game that aims to please the fans and keep the community going, it needs multiplayer.

No offense, but I hate statements like these.

Yes, multiplayer helps out a game and yes it is a fun addition, but is it necessary? No.

If a community needs multiplayer to thrive, then it isn't much of a community in my opinion. A good community is composed of fans of the game, be it casual or hardcore, who are united under one game that they all generally enjoy. It shouldn't matter what the content of game is; be it extras, making of, or online.

It's far too early to say what they will or won't do with Deus Ex 3. Considering how multiplayer is such a big component of games these days, there might be. Depends on what route they take, though. If the game is the same as Deus Ex and Invisible War, then I say no to that.

I apologize if I seem rude because it isn't my intent to be.

¤[ß2S]¤Sürvívë
23rd May 2008, 01:35
Yes people still do play DXMP, including me ;)

DX_ADDICT
23rd May 2008, 02:41
Not many people do play it but they are there!

I was fraggin' away on the servers just yesterday

DXeXodus
23rd May 2008, 03:56
People played Deus Ex multiplayer? News to me. I just assumed it was sort of some unfinished menu option that crashed the game if you clicked on it.

Hell yes! People played it! Deus Ex multiplayer is great fun. And as mentioned above, is very funny. Its well worked out too and adds alot to the single player game. And no, it doesn't just crash if you clicked on it :D It was a very much completed component of the game.

~Psychotic~
23rd May 2008, 05:08
No offense, but I hate statements like these.

Yes, multiplayer helps out a game and yes it is a fun addition, but is it necessary? No.

If a community needs multiplayer to thrive, then it isn't much of a community in my opinion. A good community is composed of fans of the game, be it casual or hardcore, who are united under one game that they all generally enjoy. It shouldn't matter what the content of game is; be it extras, making of, or online.

It's far too early to say what they will or won't do with Deus Ex 3. Considering how multiplayer is such a big component of games these days, there might be. Depends on what route they take, though. If the game is the same as Deus Ex and Invisible War, then I say no to that.

I apologize if I seem rude because it isn't my intent to be.

Oh, so having no multiplayer helps communities grow does it? Not really. Having no multiplayer will only keep fans around for so long, but with a multiplayer version more people can find out why the game is so fun, find out about fansites and participate in clans to play the game they enjoy socially.

Without multiplayer I'm sure Deus Ex would not have remained as popular as it is today. Without multiplayer I'm pretty sure Deus Ex 3 may not be in development as it, in my opinion, would be pointless to make a game that people have forgotten.

Deus Ex may well be the "best game ever" but it doesn't stand a chance against bigger games without multiplayer. The majority of recent games have multiplayer. Hell, over half of the recent next-gen console games have multiplayer and it's been proven that many people prefer to play multiplayer games rather than singleplayer.

Tsumaru
23rd May 2008, 05:46
Without multiplayer I'm pretty sure Deus Ex 3 may not be in development as it, in my opinion, would be pointless to make a game that people have forgotten.
You're completely right. Plot-based games are useless without plot-less multiplayer. After all, storyline doesn't make a game like Deus Ex memorable - it's tedious repetitive multiplayer!

SageSavage
23rd May 2008, 10:03
Deus Ex may well be the "best game ever" but it doesn't stand a chance against bigger games without multiplayer. The majority of recent games have multiplayer. Hell, over half of the recent next-gen console games have multiplayer and it's been proven that many people prefer to play multiplayer games rather than singleplayer.
I demand proof.

Setsunayaki
23rd May 2008, 11:07
http://www.ebgames.com/pcgames

3 MMORPGs + Mass effect and a game no one cares about...

Multiplayer allows a community to make mods and maps for a game, keeping people interested for a long time...I put DXSP down after 2001. Its the MP that has me coming back from time to time.

My favorite singleplayer games?

Oblivion, which is the most popular singleplayer game right now. You can say DX is the most popular, but that is a lie...There are so many people who play OBLIVION and log 100 - 1000 hours PER CHARACTER and actually decide to create an ONLINE BLOG for their oblivion character....that its not funny.

Oblivion along with its expansion on PC sold 4 million copies alone. I dont know the totals for console sales of the game......and what will make the game even more popular is the fact a 1 man programming team has made an OBLIVION MULTIPLAYER ALPHA.....

http://csusap.csu.edu.au/~mloxto01/

DeusEx can stand a chance if people work to improve the singleplayer as much as the multiplayer..Look at OpenArena...That game started out like crap, but it has more players in there than Quake 3 does and its extremely funny.

Tsumaru
23rd May 2008, 12:20
MMORPGs are distinctly different from multiplayer FPS' for the simple fact that they are RPGs. The genre itself defines the higher amount of time spent on gameplay. Furthermore, as I understand it, it's a lot harder to play an MMORPG via an illegal download of the game. So while anybody can download Assassin's Creed (as the first example which jumped into my head) and have a whole lot of fun - you'll only see illegal WoW players on the free servers, which I believe are inherently buggy. And if you have friends you want to play with who have the game legally, you'll need to buy it yourself and screw the free servers. This is just one factor contributing to high sales of MMORPGs. I am in no way saying other games are necessarily more popular or *would* sell more if there was no illegal download - just pointing out that sales aren't entirely everything, and that MMORPGs are in no way a support of multiplayer versions of predominantly single player games.

But, while we're talking about how well games sell, here's another interesting list for you:
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/35919/Top-20-Best-Selling-PC-Games
1. Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
2. Crysis
3. The Orange Box ((compilation pack of HL2 which was originally not MP, Team Fortress 2 which is, and Portal which is SP only)
4. The Sims 2 Teen Style Stuff Expansion Pack ((single player only))
5. World Of Warcraft ((MMORPG))
6. Hellgate: London
7. The Sims 2 Bon Voyage Expansion Pack ((single player only))
8. Final Fantasy XI: Wings Of The Goddess Expansion Pack ((MMORPG))
9. World Of Warcraft: Burning Crusade Expansion Pack ((MMORPG))
10. Sim City 4 Deluxe ((single player only))
11. Sim City 5: Societies ((single player only))
12. World Of Warcraft: Battle Chest ((MMORPG))
13. Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Collectors Ed
14. The Sims 2 Deluxe ((single player only))
15. Nancy Drew: Legend Of The Crystal Skull ((single player only))
16. Unreal Tournament 3
17. 15000 Games ((I believe this is a SP puzzle game, not sure))
18. Paws & Claws Pet School ((once again not sure, but I assume SP only))
19. Puppy/Kitty/Pony Luv Pack ((same as above))
20. Diner Dash JC ((save as above))

So in the Top 20 Selling PC Games we have... 11 SP only (includes Portal), 4 MMORPGs, and 7 which have functionality for both and make no comment on whether MP or SP is more important or more valued (includes HL2, even though it was designed to be SP only).


Multiplayer allows a community to make mods and maps for a game, keeping people interested for a long time...I put DXSP down after 2001. Its the MP that has me coming back from time to time.
Mods are hardly strictly multiplayer. Maps, yes a tad moreso, but not mods. Oblivion is a perfect example of a massive modding community for a single-player ONLY game.


My favorite singleplayer games?

Oblivion, which is the most popular singleplayer game right now. You can say DX is the most popular, but that is a lie...There are so many people who play OBLIVION and log 100 - 1000 hours PER CHARACTER and actually decide to create an ONLINE BLOG for their oblivion character....that its not funny.

Oblivion along with its expansion on PC sold 4 million copies alone. I dont know the totals for console sales of the game......and what will make the game even more popular is the fact a 1 man programming team has made an OBLIVION MULTIPLAYER ALPHA.....

If you ask me, this is evidence AGAINST your case. You have just described to us how very, very, very good games which are single-player only can be. You have given us a figure of 4 million copies on PC alone for a SINGLE PLAYER ONLY GAME. And then you try and tell us that Oblivion supports your case of multiplayer only because *someone else* has made a multiplayer version which only supports 8 people running around together (and by together, I mean on the same server - and yet there's no synchronisation of time of day etc?), and the NPCs only share position for each player (not animation or attributes or anything but position)? How can you in the slightest prove that will make it more popular? You, my friend, have made a bad mistake with that post.

I mean you no disrespect, and I'm not in any way saying Deus Ex will be *inherently better* as single-player only. But I have to agree with CyanideBlizzard when he says statements such as "multiplayer is necessary" are completely unfounded, and basically are like saying "storyline is unimportant". For me, Deus Ex is a great game 100% because of its plot. Without it, it's hardly worth touching. Multiplayer isn't necessary - proper development of storyline detail and intricacies, gameplay and interface, and a solid bug-free release at the right time is necessary.

SageSavage
23rd May 2008, 12:20
http://www.ebgames.com/pcgames
3 MMORPGs + Mass effect and a game no one cares about...
This source is no proof at all. This is not what I was demanding proof for anyway. It was:



it's been proven that many people prefer to play multiplayer games rather than singleplayer.

Although there are some ultra-successfull MP-only games on top of some (more represantative) lists, most of the bestselling games are SP+MP-games or SP-only (Bioshock, The Witcher, various adventures and RPGs). Personally I own loads of SP+MP-games that I never play in MP and I know this is very widespread. Some other games were good as a MP-game for a few weeks or so but never reached the quality of the SP-experience. I am absolutely fine with games that were crafted for MP (like Battlefield or MMORPGs) and also with some of the SP-MP-hybrids - if they are really well made (like CoD4). Concluding that it is a fact that most people prefer MP is presumptous (unless you can actually proof it), though.



Multiplayer allows a community to make mods and maps for a game, keeping people interested for a long time...I

It's the SDK and the support that allow to make (SP-/MP-)maps and mods, isn't it?


I put DXSP down after 2001. Its the MP that has me coming back from time to time.
I guess you actually are part of a minority here.

~Psychotic~
23rd May 2008, 12:26
Note that the popular games aren't necessarily voted by the majority of gamers? Possibly people like GameSpot or IGN but not gamers. I sure as hell never voted nor heard of it. Hell even look at the Game of the Year Award which isn't voted by bloody gamers at all, GameSpy choose it!

Blade_hunter
23rd May 2008, 13:45
DX for me wasn't a well known game instead of Half life and some other games. I've hear from FPS Half life and Quake, Duke nukem. I know DX by a friend and When I see the possibilities of this game, for me DX will be the best game I played even if the graphics aren't the best, the style and to global appearance sounds fine to me. The story, the cyberpunk universe, the different kind of enemies, the fact we can chose between kill or avoid is a great thing.
This fact make the game well known or not
System shock I never knew this game and it was one of the best games I played and DX was a sort of sequel in therms of gameplay, and the era.
The big difference between each game it was the kind of places, the infiltration methods, and the fact one game has NPCs and the other has only the notes.

Some games that adds some innovations doesn't encounter always a big success.
When I hear the DX 1 interface was too complex and it's the reason they "simplify" DX 2 this put me a sort of fear about the final game, In france most magazines say's on most cases DX 1 is better than DX 2 in therms of gameplay, Some persons on today's buyed DX 2 before DX 1 because DX 1 isn't so famous than games like Half life, and DX is better than HL in all points even if DX isn't perfect this game was the best combination between genres and is for an FPS a great experience.

For me if DX isn't a commercial success it's for the fact, the game isn't well known by everyone, and the first versions have some bugs, but some games for me are better and they aren't famous like some games for an MP game everyone knows counter strike, but less players knows Battlefield or Unreal Tournament.

When I see the game Bioshock, some things are good yes, but for me this game is not better than DX or SS2, because even if the animations, graphics and the story are great it's not so rich as these old games on therms of gameplay and the craziness of this universe perhaps are a point some players dislike from this game.

gamer0004
23rd May 2008, 14:15
My favorite singleplayer games?

Oblivion, which is the most popular singleplayer game right now. You can say DX is the most popular, but that is a lie...There are so many people who play OBLIVION and log 100 - 1000 hours PER CHARACTER and actually decide to create an ONLINE BLOG for their oblivion character....that its not funny.

Oblivion along with its expansion on PC sold 4 million copies alone. I dont know the totals for console sales of the game......and what will make the game even more popular is the fact a 1 man programming team has made an OBLIVION MULTIPLAYER ALPHA.....



So you're kind of like trying to say that you possibly think that perhaps TES:IV Oblivion is a better singleplayergame than DX?
One word (or three actually): LOL.

You play DX only for multiplayer? Why? There are many games with a multiplayer function that are so much better...

Besides, did anyone try to finish Oblivion without items or skills? Did they try to finish Oblivion without legs? Did they try to finish the game without dying once at hardest difficulty?

Nathan2000
23rd May 2008, 15:20
So you're kind of like trying to say that you possibly think that perhaps TES:IV Oblivion is a better singleplayergame than DX?
One word (or three actually): LOL.

Popularity and quality are two different things. Sadly, DX is not as popular as it deserves. Half-Life is generally praised, but when I wanted to replay it, I got bored and deinstalled it.

I think you guys misinterpret GlobalNode's words a little. He said that DX3 needs multiplayer to keep the community going and that's true. The community is very loyal, but without care, it will wither and eventually die. DXMP is one of very few things, that keep it alive. Yet.

SageSavage
23rd May 2008, 16:03
I don't know... I always was under the impression that the communites around DXMP were kind of seperated from those around DXSP and its mods. Of course there were/are intersections and some people that were/are active on both sides but that's about it.

I think that it's mainly the quality of the game and the modders that keep the communities alive and I don't think that it makes a big difference wether the mods are for SP or for MP. DX offers a special take on society and the real world which I think is the certain something that sparked the fascination of many fans in the first place. And then there's the gameplay that is so great and which no game after DX ever offered again in such a polished form.

You see, there are many reasons to become hooked by a game besides MP.

Voltaire
23rd May 2008, 16:03
I fully endorse a DX3MP.

I didn't (and don't) play DXMP, as it turned out to be one of the worst online experiences in my life. Players were cliquey, games were unrelated in terms of the richness of DXSP... and I joined in too late. I got the game last autumn (or "fall" :p ) and so by the time I logged onto the multiplayer option (after having completed the SP once) I was playing a gainst about three or four REALLY advanced war heroes.

Like literally.

It felt such a bad contrast to other well implemented multiplayer modes... the mind leaps immediately to the Halo franchise, launched just a year later. There are still thousands of Halo1 PC multiplayer participants, and this is because the style of playing was well suited to FPS multiplayer. Playing Deus Ex multiplayer felt dirty, like I was defiling an uncategorisable, socially questioning, philosophically admirable game by running around Smuggler's base shouting BOOM, headshot! It was like using the Turin shroud as a Kleenex.

If there is a DX3 multiplayer mode, let's hope they make it one that gels well with the mood and quality of the single-player game.

Blade_hunter
23rd May 2008, 17:06
An MP mode is good for SP games, Bioshock has no MP even if the critics shows us it's the best game. it has no MP and it's not a great game for me like some critics says even if the ambiance of the game is good.
And I agree with Nathan2000 popularity and quality isn't the same thing, thats what I tried to demonstrate on my previous post.
Popular games aren't so good as some other games without popularity DX and some games demonstrate it. DX is unpopular compared to some games, and it's the best game ever made. When I see some critics about this game most of times it's a good critic that says DX is rich of possibilities and it make each kind of players satisfied because we have a great number of tactics that can work and all of them presents a challenge.
The MP isn't so famous as the SP, but if the MP of the upcoming DX keep some features of the game, I think it can make the game better than a game without an MP.
DX is a single player game, Ok for this, but I don't think we must think the game must be only on this manner and can't add some other features to be playable by an other category of players; like the fact some players wants to play stealthy and others wants to play with the brute force.
The SP will be the main game, but the MP can attracts some players because it uses some features of the original game even if the MP is more simple than the SP for me it's an interesting MP different than other games. A DM with DX is different than a DM with an other game and some guys like the DX MP because it's a particular MP.

SageSavage
23rd May 2008, 17:27
As long as the SP gets all the ressources and attention that it needs to become what it's supposed to be (the best game of all times) all is fine. The problem with SP+MP-games is that both parts need a lot of ressources to turn out as intended and this is why I have worries about it. The focus must be on SP!

jordan_a
23rd May 2008, 23:10
I fully endorse a DX3MP.I do to, but for an add on. I really want the developers to fully focus on the solo campaign then release an add on containing the MP mode.

Joseph Manderley's Corpse
23rd May 2008, 23:36
DX MP was a blast. I haven't played it in a long time, but used to have a lot of fun on Godz

Tsumaru
24th May 2008, 00:26
I'm gonna go throw a noose around my neck and say that Crysis was actually the best single player game I have ever played. Deus Ex I can usually only play through once a year because what keeps me interested is the storyline. I don't read novels twice straight through because it's too predictable. But I will re-read novels in future years when I don't have anything new to read. Deus Ex is an incredible story, but for me - there are a number of games which have far superior aspects. Crysis was just incredible in every way: story, gameplay, graphics, everything. I was hooked. I played it through twice within like a week. It was fantastic. TES: Oblivion is also an incredible RPG. The complete restructuring of your character (like an RPG should be) made for some great variety. You could actually feel like you were building a persona. However, for me, it had a number of problems which killed replayability. You could do *everything*. There was no conflict between being an evil assassin and one of the noble saviours of the Fighter's Guild. Just the fame/infamy thing which I found never affected me except for once when I was just down on the infamy and couldn't pray to get healed. But because you could do absolutely everything in your first run-through (and I did); it was harder for me to want to play it again. I tried making a completely different character, but even a year later, I get bored within the first few missions and drop it. Rainbow Six: Vegas was also a brilliant game for me. The dynamic nature of the fights (particularly with how you can enter into some rooms/buildings through a number of ways) was excellent, and those fights were very intense and enrapturing. The storyline was also very good. But it was quite short and I was disappointed when it ended in the middle of the game - obviously for the sequel, but still. It had some replayability, but mostly just because the fights were great, and I preferred to replay in a multiplayer setting (so in that case, that's not relevant for my discussion on singleplayer).

Anyway, I guess my point is, Deus Ex was great and had a lot of good features. But for me, the main thing was the storyline. In my personal opinion, and I might get throttled for this, the gameplay wasn't hugely fantastic. Which makes it harder for me to play it through so many times like some of you guys do. Oblivion had great character customisation and a huge environment to explore which was incredible for the first time playing, but after that first time it's pretty much done and dusted. Rainbow Six Vegas was one of the best first person shooters I've played, but as a FPS it is more replayable as multiplayer than goingh through SP again as it feels quite short and has less variability. Crysis, on the other hand, reigns supreme. It doesn't have the full RPG variability for the character, but you *are* able to stealth past a number of enemies if that's how you choose to play. It has a really thrilling storyline, and a relatively large environment of very immersive graphics. There were maps where you could literally circle the entire way around an enemy base through the forest, taking out patrols and guards, and enter from a different side. It was just as fun playing it only a day after finishing it as it was the first time I played. Deus Ex requires me to go and forget about the story and come back a year or more later. That's just me though!

(/end rant on single player games)

Setsunayaki
24th May 2008, 14:30
I was trying to take the middle ground with my posting, not take one side of the issue. Here are messages to people. Please note I am not trying to insult or attack you...you are all human beings so please bare with me.

Message to Tsumaru

Your mistake was getting the list from IGN. As much as I like them a lot, what I see with my own eyes never matches their data. Most businesses trust IDC itself who spends tons of money yearly to aquire their analytical reports of sales and information.

Message to Gamer.....

DX for nostalgia and the fact I check up on people. I play many games. As far as Singleplayers go....I can count on my fingers the total number of good PC singleplayer games in the last 8 years that have been released that I've played for over a month.

You know what they all have in common? Graphics! Second thing they have in common? They all force you to upgrade your PC to see the best in those games...and this is done intentionally. The third thing they have in common is that they charge you 40 - 50 dollars for a game that has bugs and problems that went through lousy Quality Assurance...so by the time the bugs are gone, it drops to 20 - 30 and its released on Console for $60.

As far as Singleplayer Games go.....I have more fun playing Singleplayer Console games. SNES, PSX, PS2 had a lot of good singleplayer games that I played a lot...and I didnt have to go out and buy new hardware. There were more interesting concepts limited by the hardware but the games were good.

Tsumaru
24th May 2008, 15:20
Message to Tsumaru

Your mistake was getting the list from IGN. As much as I like them a lot, what I see with my own eyes never matches their data. Most businesses trust IDC itself who spends tons of money yearly to aquire their analytical reports of sales and information.

I'm sorry, I don't buy this "IGN isn't reliable - EB homepage is a far better source" argument. Show me a comprehensive list of top sellers for the entire year 2007 (or even an earlier year, if you would prefer) which you consider accurate, and I will go through and see what they all are again.

~Psychotic~
24th May 2008, 15:57
I'm sorry, I don't buy this "IGN isn't reliable - EB homepage is a far better source" argument. Show me a comprehensive list of top sellers for the entire year 2007 (or even an earlier year, if you would prefer) which you consider accurate, and I will go through and see what they all are again.

IMO, neither IGN or EB are reliable sources of information. Both generally have biased statements but IGN are going to have more of them as that's what they do, they're a gaming network and they get paid to give decent reviews. Hell, look at the GTA4 one? Totally overrated.

Kneo24
24th May 2008, 16:53
The majority of the numbers that you guys can find about any game or console are primarily going to be based in North America - ignoring the rest of the world. The numbers are inherently flawed if you want to look at the whole picture.

AaronJ
24th May 2008, 18:22
I do to, but for an add on. I really want the developers to fully focus on the solo campaign then release an add on containing the MP mode.

So far throughout my involvement on this forum, every time I mention multiplayer, I've been meaning including multiplayer in the first place. I do agree with what you're saying, I just haven't been that specific.

[FGS]Shadowrunner
1st Jun 2008, 15:59
Undoubtedly DX3 will learn from DX1 and DX2.

Which makes me wonder why plans for SDK and MP are thin on the ground?

If you look at DXMP, it's only in the last year or two that it has really evolved, with DXAG and DXSG, CRD and various other mods...MP was never single player, but that doesn't stop the community re-injecting the elements of DX that were rushed past...

Ostriig
8th Jun 2008, 23:46
It also proves that if Deus Ex 3 is a game that aims to please the fans and keep the community going, it needs multiplayer.
I respectfully disagree.

AaronJ
9th Jun 2008, 01:08
Well I thank you for supporting your disagreement.

Ostriig
9th Jun 2008, 11:40
Well I thank you for supporting your disagreement.
I could retort the same. I fail to see how your account of the closing of a server and MP clan serve you to draw your conclusion. Don't know, not my cup of tea, I suppose you could claim "This marks the ending of Deus Ex Multiplayer." but I don't see how you go from that to "[DX3] needs multiplayer."

Deus Ex received its critical acclaim for its singleplayer component - it is what made it an important title in the history of gaming. Furthermore, recent releases like Bioshock, The Witcher or Mass Effect, and even the now rather old Oblivion, show that there is still a healthy interest in pure singleplayer games. I don't oppose the addition of MP, but I prioritize it quite low. Needless to say I don't want it to take up resources necessary for the singleplayer part, but I believe that the release of a comprehensive and accessible toolset is also far more important than the addition of MP component.

It is my opinion, note the italics, that the DX community would thrive even without MP, if we were given a worthy, replayable sequel to the original DX, maybe an SDK, and the promise of yet another sequel, should the numbers be right.

jordan_a
9th Jun 2008, 13:17
If you want a broad community nowadays there's no doubt you have to go through the multiplayer mode, and a good one.

It's not a wish, just an observation.

Ostriig
9th Jun 2008, 13:43
If you want a broad community nowadays there's no doubt you have to go through the multiplayer mode, and a good one.

It's not a wish, just an observation.
Why are you interested in this "broad community"? It is not necessarily a measure of, or conducive to, success on its own. What does this interlinked community produce, exactly? If it's multiplayer oriented, then it's only of use to itself, by providing server fodder. And if there'd be a significant difference between sales for a singleplayer-only DX3, and a single and multiplayer DX3, then I'm inclined to think something will have gone wrong in development since that would suggest that a large portion of the player base is not interested enough in the singleplayer aspect alone - something which would, in turn, suggest that the singleplayer part of the game would not have been correctly prioritized. At least that's how I view things.

I'm not advocating the exclusion of a MP component, I'm saying that it's in no way vital to the success of DX3.

As for what goes nowadays... Both Bioshock and Mass Effect have had sequels announced for them. This implies that their owning companies at least think that there are noteworthy fan communities that will await these new installments with anticipation. And here are some sales figures for Bioshock:


Sales

2K Games stated that, as of September 10, 2007, over 1.5 million copies of BioShock have shipped since its release.[89] The Xbox 360 version was the third best-selling game of August 2007, with 490,900 copies.[90] The Wall Street Journal reported that shares in Take-Two "soared nearly 20%" in the week following overwhelmingly favorable early reviews of the game.[91] Take-Two announced that, as of June 5, 2008, over 2.2 million copies of BioShock have been shipped.[92]

SageSavage
9th Jun 2008, 18:20
There is no good aka consistent/solid community around Bioshock. I am sure this is because they didn't deliver the once promised SDK.

AaronJ
9th Jun 2008, 20:50
[QUOTE=Ostriig;756156]Bioshock, The Witcher or Mass Effect

Your post would've been better if you didn't throw in The Witcher in the middle there. That being said, I understand what you're saying, but I still believe multiplayer is needed in DX3.

Ostriig
9th Jun 2008, 23:39
There is no good aka consistent/solid community around Bioshock. I am sure this is because they didn't deliver the once promised SDK.
Yes, the presence of an SDK would have allowed for the formation of a modding community around it. The point I was making, though, was in relation to multiplayer, and I gave Bioshock as an example of a recent singleplay title of considerable commercial success, whose creators are planning on following up with another installment, indicating at least some faith in the existence of fanbase to contribute to continued profit from the franchise.


That being said, I understand what you're saying, but I still believe multiplayer is needed in DX3.
Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the matter. No harm in that.

Tsumaru
10th Jun 2008, 00:15
Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the matter. No harm in that.
I demand a winner!

GlobalNode and Ostriig must battle to death for the sake of MP vitality! Choose your weapons, and then into the pit with the both of ya!

jordan_a
10th Jun 2008, 00:33
When a franchise is so weak an MP mode can make the difference.

There's no doubt the sales of DX3 will define the continuation or the fall of the adventures of the Dentons: a new studio and its staff is born, which means that a lot of money has been put on this project. That's why there won't be a second opportunity any soon if the game fails.

At a point where the future of a game is not settled you have to attract attention. Therefore if you implement a decent and tempting netplay you can be pretty sure you'll muster a strong community whose passion lies in sci-fi and fps which a huuuuuge amount of people and the warranty of good sales... provided the solo campaign is great too.

Ostriig
10th Jun 2008, 02:56
When a franchise is so weak an MP mode can make the difference.

There's no doubt the sales of DX3 will define the continuation or the fall of the adventures of the Dentons: a new studio and its staff is born, which means that a lot of money has been put on this project. That's why there won't be a second opportunity any soon if the game fails.

At a point where the future of a game is not settled you have to attract attention. Therefore if you implement a decent and tempting netplay you can be pretty sure you'll muster a strong community whose passion lies in sci-fi and fps which a huuuuuge amount of people and the warranty of good sales... provided the solo campaign is great too.
I'll try and rephrase what I said in post #36. If the success or failure of DX3 is to be decided by the existence of a MP mode, then you might as well not call it Deus Ex. For a game of this type, success and, implicitly, the possibility of sequels, is determined by number of units sold. If that number is to be significantly influenced by individuals who would decide whether to buy the game or not based exclusively on the presence of multiplayer, then the game is at the very least pitched to the wrong market segment, and more than likely designed with that flawed view of the target audience in mind.

And once again, I have given the example of two recent titles that have managed to get both the attention and the cash to warrant the development of sequels without presenting themselves with any form of multiplayer component. These were new IP's, which as a general rule are at least as fragile, if not more, as the Deus Ex franchise is now, following the relative commercial failure of Invisible War.

Romeo
18th Jun 2008, 02:34
No offense, but I hate statements like these.

Yes, multiplayer helps out a game and yes it is a fun addition, but is it necessary? No.

If a community needs multiplayer to thrive, then it isn't much of a community in my opinion. A good community is composed of fans of the game, be it casual or hardcore, who are united under one game that they all generally enjoy. It shouldn't matter what the content of game is; be it extras, making of, or online.

It's far too early to say what they will or won't do with Deus Ex 3. Considering how multiplayer is such a big component of games these days, there might be. Depends on what route they take, though. If the game is the same as Deus Ex and Invisible War, then I say no to that.

I apologize if I seem rude because it isn't my intent to be.

Absolutely, I've never really thought about it before, but my favorite games are almost exclusively single player (Typically RPGs) with the sole exemptions being FarCry (Which I like to make maps... On my own), Forza (Playing to custom tune and paint cars... On my own) and Gears of War (By killing others online and getting to the top of the leaderboards... On my own. Tee hee). But ultimately, yes, multiplayer may make a game successful for a while (See: Halo 2) but undoubtedly the enthralling single-player experience is what gamers will remember over the years (See: Not Halo 2). =)

Romeo
18th Jun 2008, 02:40
Theoretically, couldn't the community simply make a multiplayer mod? It was done on Morrowind years and years ago, so with todays superior modding resources and intelligence, it should still be possible, no? (Please excuse me if I'm mistaken, I'm a console boy first, and a computer boy second).

Lo Bruto
18th Jun 2008, 07:39
I do to, but for an add on. I really want the developers to fully focus on the solo campaign then release an add on containing the MP mode.

Same here. DX must be a SP experience, finito.
Later, a MP addon can be released for people who like to pwn nbs and 1337 talk.

And believe... there are some guys out there who said DX1 MP was better than SP. :eek:

AaronJ
19th Jun 2008, 02:37
I demand a winner!

GlobalNode and Ostriig must battle to death for the sake of MP vitality! Choose your weapons, and then into the pit with the both of ya!

ON GUARD YOU SCALLIWAG.