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DXeXodus
15th May 2008, 12:19
Maybe you have read this before. I love the way he fails to mention Universal Ammo:

From The Escapist: Forums

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.53084


Invisible War is the sequel, as I'm sure we all know to Deus Ex, and was developed for both PC and Xbox (bizarrely, the Xbox never saw a port of DX but the PS2 did). Here is where most people pick their first quarrel. Due to the Xbox's lesser specs, levels in IW tended to be smaller than in the original, and many immediately saw this as a gigantic flaw. 'But hold your horses' says I, 'and lets explore this proper'.

Levels in DX were indeed a lot bigger, but in my opinion combat was the worse for it. Characters more than ten feet away, let alone fifty as was often the case, are bloody impossible to hit when you've got a crosshair that insists on tripling in size whenever you make a move. Standing stock still gives you a better chance at hitting enemies, but most likely they're hitting you more. Big levels mean nothing if you can't even shoot beyond the length of your own bootlaces.

Invisible War? Well, rather than think of the levels as small, I like to think of them as cosy (that's not denial talking, hear me out). Enemies are within snuggling distance, and that means you actually have to get creative. Rather than just crouch and shoot, you need to make use of tactics such as evasion, flanking and the like. Combat is more intimate (I hope to god that's the right word) and if you don't work out how use the gizmos and tools you've got (spiderbots, grenades, etc), you're going to find yourself overrun by Templars or WTO mercs, all with big guns.

Speaking of combat, let's talk about the abolition of the skills system. I like it.

Now, before you all send me letterbombs and anthrax for such blasphemy, hear me out. In DX, I lost count of how many times my grand plans were ruined because I didn't have enough points in a certain skill. Not enough Sniper points meaning I couldn't make a certain shot, or having spent Electronics points where I should have spent Demolitions. In order to do things I had to have points. It was like a tarrif system. 'No points amigo? No go go'

Whereas Invisible War did away with this. If you wanted to be a marksman type character, you just had to pick yourself up a sniper and get zooming. If it turned out that sniping wasn't for you, you could pick up a shotgun and go John Rambo instead. Cynics said this diluted the customization too much, but there was still plenty on offer. You could add various stealth biomods to your character and pimp out your rifle with accuracy mods, silencers, glass destabiliser whatnots and the like. There was still a ton of variety, it was just done in the gameplay this time, rather than on a stats sheet.

'But ah' say the cynics, 'how can Invisible War be called an rpg? Afterall, Crysis does a lot of these things ye have mentioned, but we wouldn't call that an rpg now, would we?'

To answer this (you smug buggers) I bring up another point- the plot. Specifically, how you can make choices within it and there will be real consequences. Some readers may know that I did a Fable review (still up) in which I complained about the lack of choice. IW is the antithesis to that. While you will still have to go to the same locations, you have a huge amount of freedom within them. Main characters can be assassinated, factions chosen, quests completed or ignored, and it's all done without the dull 'Good vs Evil' malarky that every developer and his dog seems intent on shovelling out. Rather than black and white (or indeed Black and White), IW is built of shades of grey. All the factions have their own goals and motives, and it's up to you to choose the one that best suits you. All the major political ideals get a look in: Socialism, Capitalism, Fascism, Anarchism, et al. The motives and methods of each faction are believable, there is no clear cut 'Mwahaha I'm going to rule the world' antagonist. You choose who the bad guy is, you choose who to follow and who to betray. There is no good and evil, only idealism.

Looking back and seeing how epic this post has gotten (nothing wrong with quantity, but it's got to have the quality to match), I'll finish with this. People seem intent on demonizing IW, often simply because it had the brass cheek to be a sequel to Deus Ex. 'What's this. Some cheeky bugger's released a Deus Ex 2. Fetch me musket!' No it's not perfect, but loading screens be damned, neither was the original. Can you hear that at the back?

DEUS EX WAS FLAWED TOO!

A supposedly super secret agent having pissweak shooting skills at the start of the game. The health system (controversial maybe, but I hated it. Complicated does NOT equal immersive). The friggin AI!

I read a telling review of IW at PC Format. The argument went 'It's a fantastically amazing labyrinthine epic game. But because it dares to be different from DX1 we've decided we're not going to like it!' All I ask is that you look back to when IW was released. How many games were there at the time that offered a comparable richness of plot and gameplay? How many offered such a amazingly detailed world that really gave you the illusion you could make a difference?

Still unconvinced? You royal bugger!

He makes some decent points, but still, I think the developers made too many wrong choices with IW. They changed what we knew and loved so much.

All the things that he 'hates' from DX are the things which make it such a special and unique game. So sad

xvxNe0xvx
15th May 2008, 15:29
I completly agree with this .. IW wasn't THAT bad as a game as people make it out to be.

IMO it only "sucks" because every one compares it to the greatest game of all time (Dx1).

So yes .. its a GREAT game. just not the best :)

gamer0004
15th May 2008, 17:01
"Rather than just crouch and shoot, you need to make use of tactics such as evasion, flanking and the like."
Err... Did he even play DX:IW? Because the maps are so small you can't do that. I do agree that the fighting in DX:IW was better though. But it was just about the only thing that was better than in DX.
" you're going to find yourself overrun by Templars or WTO mercs, all with big guns."
Err... I guess he's the world's worst gamer? Lol it's very very easy to finish the game at realistic difficulty without all kinds of funky stuff - an SMG is sufficient.
"Now, before you all send me letterbombs and anthrax for such blasphemy, hear me out. In DX, I lost count of how many times my grand plans were ruined because I didn't have enough points in a certain skill. Not enough Sniper points meaning I couldn't make a certain shot, or having spent Electronics points where I should have spent Demolitions. In order to do things I had to have points. It was like a tarrif system. 'No points amigo? No go go'"
Same thing here... Without upgrading my rifle skill it was still relatively easy to make a headshot. If you didn't have enough multitools it was possible to retrieve the code from a datcube.
I mean, it is possible to finish DX without items OR skills (or augs)! (It's possible to finish DX:IW without items or augs too, btw, but in DX:IW luck is a major factor, unlike DX).

Still, I like DX:IW. But what this guy says simply isn't true.

mad_red
15th May 2008, 17:28
Sure it's a great game. Enjoyable.

But I disagree with the review. Each element taken seperately could be a good idea. But all of them together makes the game more shallow.

Here is how to make the game more SMOOTH:
More action, less wandering around and fiddling about. No complicated skill system. No lengthy newspapers, e-mails, etc.

Here is how to keep it INTERESTING:
Always have a choice but never between black and white. There shouldn't even be the illusion of black or white.


As a we all know: Good in theory, not in practice.

Here are 2 quotes from the DX1 gamespot review:
"Deus Ex's gameplay features and story elements, as well as the expansiveness of the game's environments and the scope of its setting, add up to a satisfying and unusual experience."

"It's an ambitious 3D game that defies simple classification, and though some of its individual elements are either overused or underdeveloped, the aggregate experience of playing Deus Ex proves to be both unique and worthwhile."

jcp28
16th May 2008, 00:32
This guy is SO DUMB. He must not have been clear what the game was about. IW wasn't a bad game, but it was watered down in ways I did not like at all.

DXeXodus
16th May 2008, 03:44
Like I say, he does make some sense in the way he says that DX2 is not that bad. Actually, it is quite an enjoyable game. It, however, becomes a lump of steaming **** when compared to its older brother. I personally enjoyed DX2 on its own, which in itself is sad because if it wasn't an experience that contributed to the DX world.

"The health system (controversial maybe, but I hated it. Complicated does NOT equal immersive)." - What the hell. That was one of the best parts of the game. It is one of the things that make this game better than other games with standard crappy health bars which bear no resemblance to reality.

"Still unconvinced? You royal bugger!" - YES!

Larington
16th May 2008, 14:08
Answer: Deus Ex 1, by way of its gameplay, appeals to those who appreciate a bit of complexity and diversity in ways you can go about completing objectives within the game. Deus Ex:IW by contrast, appeals more to players who appreciate a streamlined game, even though by streamlining it, the game becomes more akin to other shooter games that go only a little bit above the bar, but not as much as say, DX1 did.

So basically, hes the sort of person who DX2 appeals to (And I'm sure there are people who fall into the category), myself, I want a bit of complexity and/or depth in my computer games, rather than none.

pHdeus
17th May 2008, 22:12
I have a lot of respect for the designers of IW. It was in many respects a logical next step to the first game, and the music was very well thought to complement the game.

It was better in some respects and worse in some respects from the original. I think we will all agree that some corners were cut in IW to get the game out.

We all have things that we liked and hated. For instance, I believe that it was a mistake to cover Liberty Island in ice and snow, but probably much easier to render.


Seeing the characters from the first game again is hopefully something that we can all agree -- was a treat.:o

hashi
18th May 2008, 12:28
Deus Ex 2 was awesome. The only unawesome parts of it were the technical problems with the game and the small areas seperated by long loading screens. other then that it was fantastic