PDA

View Full Version : Will you buy DX3 if it has outrageous DRM?



DXeXodus
14th May 2008, 09:43
Will you buy DX3 if it has outrageous DRM (Digital Restrictions Management)?
Some of the games coming out now have taken such strong measures to try and prevent piracy, but as we know this only makes the legitimate buyer suffer. If someone wants to pirate a game then they will. If it's coded it will be cracked. Simple. I think that this actually just promotes piracy in the end TBH.

I know their is a similar thread requesting there not to be DRM in DX3, but I was interested in seeing the results of a poll.

Me, personally... I'll buy the game, but I do not have internet at home so I will have to crack it

jordan_a
14th May 2008, 09:49
That depends on the cost. Do we have informations about that?

I think the poll should rather ask if we support that means.

DXeXodus
14th May 2008, 10:00
It does in a sense. If everyone says no, they wont buy it, or they'll crack it, etc... then maybe the devs will get the point.

We can assume that the costs will be similar to most games. R300-R350 for PC.

serene_chaos
14th May 2008, 10:31
i'll buy it anyway, but if it does have insane security, then **** eidos

AndyRaffle
14th May 2008, 10:49
Please not securom. Almost anything but that. I have a fair number of games that just won't work any more, now that I switched to Vista64. Nothing wrong with the game, it's the bloody DRM.

Does anyone know what the usual Eidos DRM is? Or is it possible that they will publish DX3 on Steam? Steam would be fantastic. Too much to hope for.

jordan_a
14th May 2008, 11:12
The poll is clumsy since everybody here will buy the game no matter what, it's obvious!

Asking if we support the DRM would have been more interesting.

DXeXodus
14th May 2008, 11:25
Some people might not buy it no matter what. Some people might only buy it under certain conditions, or buy it then get a cracked copy from somewhere to avoid all the hassle.

And asking if we support DRM would be an even more redundant question seeing as I don't know a single person who does.

If you don't like it, then don't post in it. Simple

minus0ne
14th May 2008, 17:57
I might buy it if there was a crack to remove the DRM (which, by 2009/2010, wil probably be even more intrusive and bloated than it is now), but I'd definately wait for the crack to be released before I buy it. My PC and XP installation are running fine and I don't intend to sacrifice that by willingly installing StarForce/SecuROM/SafeDisc low-level drivers, not even for a potentially brilliant game such as this.

I've already cancelled my Mass Effect PC pre-order, and I don't care that they removed the brunt of the DRM. Until a crack is released that completely obliterates any DRM from the executables I won't buy this game, even if I have to wait till it gets to the budget bins. It's a sad state of affairs when I have to rely on hackers to fix an intentional flaw in the software I buy.

jcp28
14th May 2008, 22:38
**** no. I'll wait for the console version if there is one.

rhalibus
14th May 2008, 23:16
I've already cancelled my Mass Effect PC pre-order, and I don't care that they removed the brunt of the DRM. Until a crack is released that completely obliterates any DRM from the executables I won't buy this game, even if I have to wait till it gets to the budget bins.

Damn. Hard core, minus0ne! I've pre-ordered Mass Effect PC and I'm probably going to keep the pre-order, just 'cause I really want to play the game.

Can anyone think of a possible solution that will prevent piracy but not inconvenience legitimate gamers? I mean, the PC game industry is in real trouble because of piracy: Crysis lost so much money to piracy they stated that they'll never make a PC only game again (which will cut innovation in graphics across the whole industry).

I'm not asking people to post what publishers and developers shouldn't do, but to post what they can do to fight this problem...

DXeXodus
15th May 2008, 07:48
I agree with minus0ne completely. I was so looking forward to mass effect until I heard about the DRM, but once that it was announced I swore that I was not going to buy the game. Now that they have slackened however, I will probably buy the game as I am impressed that they actually gave a damn and listened to the fans.

The current system only lends itself to more piracy = less sales for the developer. The last thing I want to see is Deus Ex being killed by low sales which result in no developer interest.


The poll is clumsy since everybody here will buy the game no matter what, it's obvious!

Asking if we support the DRM would have been more interesting.

It seems that you are wrong. Looks like the choices are quite close, except for piracy of course. lol. who would admit that.

Gary_Savage
15th May 2008, 20:00
I might buy it if there was a crack to remove the DRM (which, by 2009/2010, wil probably be even more intrusive and bloated than it is now), but I'd definately wait for the crack to be released before I buy it. My PC and XP installation are running fine and I don't intend to sacrifice that by willingly installing StarForce/SecuROM/SafeDisc low-level drivers, not even for a potentially brilliant game such as this.

Well said minus0ne.

It's only a matter of time before someone figures out how to crack any particular game, and once that happens, those who will get illegal copies will get them, but those who acquired the games legally will have to continue to put up with the DRM restrictions. That is unfair to the legitimate buyers. I like your suggestion about waiting for the crack to come out, before getting a legal copy. But do you see the problem here? Suppose (as you mentioned, it might happen) that the game hits the bargain bins by the time the crack comes out, and you/we buy the game, then the developers still loose money. Now, I don't know if that'll make them loose so much money as to make things look as bad as getting an illegal copy, but they will definitely not make as much money as they would make if people buy the game as soon as it comes out. So, the way I see it, DRM is getting legitimate buyers ticked off to the point that the developers might actually make less money (by making buyers wait till the games hit the bargain bins) than if they had removed all restrictions (so the legitimate buyers would buy early, not having to wait for a crack to come out). The way I see it (and this view is just from my personal experience; others may have vastly different viewpoints), getting an illegal copy is a mentality, not a function of game cost: when I was in high school (6 years ago) I saw that whether a guy got illegal copies of games, or the legitimate versions, did not correlate with the size of his allowance. For these reasons, I think that doing away with DRM might actually boost game sales.

P.S. I do know that it is possible to make illegal copies of console CDs (I also heard that some people mod their consoles), so I'm not sure why devs blame so much of the illegal market on PCs. This thing is becoming a curiosity, for me.

jordan_a
15th May 2008, 20:02
Is it expensive for the developers to benefit from such a system?

Papy
15th May 2008, 20:40
so I'm not sure why devs blame so much of the illegal market on PCs.
Because a lot more people pirate PC games than console games. I don't know why people pirate PC games more than console games, but looking at torrent sites it is obvious they do. Also, the problem is not that some people pirate PC games, it is that MOST people pirate PC games. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 80% of PC games played were pirated. PC gamers are thieves.

By the way, I WANT strong anti-piracy protection. I WANT Internet activation and I WANT a limited number of installations. This is a price I'm willing to pay because I'm just sick and tired of freeloaders who are killing PC games. Looking Glass Studio, as a lot of other quality developers, died, that's enough.

Gary_Savage
15th May 2008, 21:08
Because a lot more people pirate PC games than console games. I don't know why people pirate PC games more than console games, but looking at torrent sites it is obvious they do. Also, the problem is not that some people pirate PC games, it is that MOST people pirate PC games. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 80% of PC games played were pirated.

Thanks for that (I suppose I should have checked out torrent sites, myself, before posing my question). Now, does anyone know if the PC is just a platform of convenience, that illegal copy users choose, since they don't have to mod it, unlike their consoles;


PC gamers are thieves.

or are the people getting illegal copies of PC games simply because they are getting all of their other software (OS, office, antivirus, etc.) illegally?



By the way, I WANT strong anti-piracy protection. I WANT Internet activation and I WANT a limited number of installations. This is a price I'm willing to pay because I'm just sick and tired of freeloaders who are killing PC games. Looking Glass Studio, as a lot of other quality developers, died, that's enough.

Yeah, Looking Glass Studio dying really caused me a lot of grief. The only analogy that I can think of, for how I felt, was how a kid would feel if he heard that Santa Claus just died. [This is still a very bad analogy, though, since I have never believed in a Santa Claus, and even my Christian teachers and neighbors were not big into that idea of Santa Claus]. The way that things are happening, though, I think that DRM is inconveniencing the legitimate buyers, rather than discouraging freeloaders.

I've been heart-broken once before, when Looking glass Studio died due to people getting illegal copies. I don't want to feel bad again, if Eidos Montreal suffers because the DRM inconvenienced legitimate buyers. As for the freeloaders, I don't see how DRM will stop them.

When the copy protection track was used, people learned to cover that track with a marker. When Microsoft put serial numbers on their OS CDs people copied the CD, and put in a small text file with serial number. When Windows XP came out, a friend and I spent so much time trying to activate it, while those with illegal copies had not such hassle (that was the point that I had had enough with activation, and such hassles -- it was like paying to be inconvenienced). So, with DRM, I'm sure somebody will figure out how to crack the software. I remember, some years ago, a certain excitement in my high school, that some person in Malaysia had cracked some software, and that that crack would soon (in a few months) allow illegal copies of that software to be available in the CD markets of all the third world countries. Once something like that happens with DX3, the copy protection will go down the drain, while those with legal copies will continue to be inconvenienced.

I'm not claiming to have a solution to the freeloader problem; but I do think that DRM will hurt legitimate users, rather than the freeloaders.

DXeXodus
16th May 2008, 04:21
But do you see the problem here? Suppose (as you mentioned, it might happen) that the game hits the bargain bins by the time the crack comes out, and you/we buy the game, then the developers still loose money.

The crack (as with 99% of cracks), will be out within 24 hours of the games official release, which is very long before it will hit the bargain bins. Half-Life 2 was cracked before it was even released.

So, DRM is useless, and as Gary_Savage says only hurts the legitimate buyers.

gamer0004
16th May 2008, 06:47
Because a lot more people pirate PC games than console games. I don't know why people pirate PC games more than console games, but looking at torrent sites it is obvious they do. Also, the problem is not that some people pirate PC games, it is that MOST people pirate PC games. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 80% of PC games played were pirated. PC gamers are thieves.

By the way, I WANT strong anti-piracy protection. I WANT Internet activation and I WANT a limited number of installations. This is a price I'm willing to pay because I'm just sick and tired of freeloaders who are killing PC games. Looking Glass Studio, as a lot of other quality developers, died, that's enough.

The only thing I want is the most simple copy protection. So you can't play the game with an illegal CD or without a CD/DVD. I mean, many people still don't know how to use cracks and such. But the people who do can always get the game to work. So internet activation and limited numbers of installations is a no no.
I have installed and reïnstalled DX for like 12 times? That would mean that I'd had to buy the game 4 times...

DXeXodus
16th May 2008, 06:58
I have installed and reïnstalled DX for like 12 times? That would mean that I'd had to buy the game 4 times...

Correction - that would mean that you would have to buy the game 4 times if you don't have internet. The idea behind limited installs is that once you have used up all of them you can phone in and somehow get a new serial number to install it again, which is even more expensive if you live in a 3rd world country and have to make an international call.

gamer0004
16th May 2008, 07:01
Correction - that would mean that you would have to buy the game 4 times if you don't have internet. The idea behind limited installs is that once you have used up all of them you can phone in and somehow get a new serial number to install it again, which is even more expensive if you live in a 3rd world country and have to make an international call.

Point is, internet activation causes trouble every time I try. Even Microsoft didn't get it right...
And I refuse to make a phone call just because they're so stupid to give it DRM like that.

DXeXodus
16th May 2008, 07:43
Point is, internet activation causes trouble every time I try. Even Microsoft didn't get it right...
And I refuse to make a phone call just because they're so stupid to give it DRM like that.

And thats why alot of people will just crack it.

Mike_B
16th May 2008, 08:33
We really don't need a thread here about cracks and the likes. There is already a thread out there for the discussion of DRM. As long as it stays away from "I will download the game if it comes with DRM" that should be fine. You can discuss preferred DRM etc. and why you think it's invonvenience and whatnot though.