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AaronJ
6th May 2008, 17:59
Evidence:

1. The Concept Art: Everything in the concept art is too advanced to be before DX.

2. The Text: Who we are is but a stepping stone to what we can become. Most people might think this is just crap filler for the trailer, but it does make sense.

3. Common Sense: There isn't, and can't ever be, a story behind a prequel. It's not interesting.

rhalibus
6th May 2008, 18:46
Evidence:

1. The Concept Art: Everything in the concept art is too advanced to be before DX.

2. The Text: Who we are is but a stepping stone to what we can become. Most people might think this is just crap filler for the trailer, but it does make sense.

3. Common Sense: There isn't, and can't ever be, a story behind a prequel. It's not interesting.

I respectfully take a contrary view, GlobalNode: My observations:

1. The Concept Art shows things like mechanical robotic hands; whereas DX1 included the first use of nano-technology to augment agents. This could indicate that the concept art lab showcases the first developments of mechanically augmented agents, ala Gunther Hermann.

2. "Who we are is but a stepping stone to what we can become" could very well be a theme for the beginning of the development of augmented humans (or "Transhumanity"), whereas DX1 took place in a time in which UNATCO was utilizing the second stage of augmentation (nano-technology).

3. The "Godfather Part II" included many prequel elements that showed how Michael Corleone came to America and built his fortune. Not the worst movie ever made. :)

Anyway, although prequels can go horribly wrong (The Star Wars prequels, for example), I think there could be a lot of story, drama, and mission content to take advantage of if Eidos Montreal decides to follow the prequel route.

So there! Do I get your DX3 shirt? :)

What do other people think about the probability that Eidos Montreal will follow the prequel route?

imported_van_HellSing
6th May 2008, 18:51
Evidence:

1. The Concept Art: It shows mechanical limbs, for one. Mechanical limbs that would be outdated in an IW sequel. Also, what's so "advanced" about it?

2. The Text: Who we are is but a stepping stone to what we can become. Most people might think this is just crap filler for the trailer, but it does make sense. It's foreshadowing of DX1 and IW.

3. Common Sense: There isn't, and can't ever be, a sequel to IW that makes sense.

GruntOwner
6th May 2008, 19:01
Who said anything about an IW sequel? There are 70 years between the 2, and frankly the decanonisation of IW wou;d be more than welcome if IW's few and far between features interfered with the awesome. I'm not saying it's a sequel, hell I think these threads are the most useless waste of bandwidth since runescape, but we can't make any conclusions thus far. Unless someone here is on the design team and can give us solid information from a concrete source, then these threads are just beating a dead horse. A 1 minute long horse featuring a small army of trivia and a very inefficiently produced baby, because if that's how mechs are being grown in game then we have a serious problem concerning growth and metal. The teaser cannot be taken literally.

Vasarto
6th May 2008, 19:32
1.Evidence - The concept art shows Mechanical work being done and Jars with arms in it and arms hanging from lines. This would indicate that they are
working on all mechanical. I believe that the Character we are going to play as is indeed Paul Denton, However that is just speculation and I could be wrong!


2.Who we are is but a stepping stone to what we can become. Most people might think this is just crap filler for the trailer, but it does make sense. It's foreshadowing of DX1 and IW.

3.Common Sense - I never played IW but I do not think that the technonlogy
that will folow IW is in that room right there. This is Indeed a Prequel.

Nathan2000
6th May 2008, 19:57
Evidence:

1. The Concept Art: Everything in the concept art is too advanced to be before DX.

2. The Text: Who we are is but a stepping stone to what we can become. Most people might think this is just crap filler for the trailer, but it does make sense.

3. Common Sense: There isn't, and can't ever be, a story behind a prequel. It's not interesting.

Ad. 1 - Nothing in the concept art (apart from the screens and mech limbs) is too advanced for today. And the screens are common in 2052 (Personal Computers).
Ad. 2 - Covered above.
Ad. 3 - Northwest war, MJ12's severance from the Illuminati, foundation of UNATCO, research on nano-augmentations. History of Simons, Navarre, Hermann, DeBeers, etc. Those issues were only briefly mentioned in the Continuity Bible.


and frankly the decanonisation of IW wou;d be more than welcome if IW's few and far between features interfered with the awesome.
I DIS-AG-REE with throwing DXIW out of the canon. If they do that, what is the reason not to decanonize DX1 as well?

And the prequel doesn't mess up with DXIW.

GruntOwner
6th May 2008, 20:44
Clearly I have been misinterprated (sp?). There are 70 years to play with DX and IW, they could easily explore the more immediate effects of the collapse, or the illuminati's ascent to power if they were to decononise IW, and if you rate IW as highly as DX for canon then I have to question exactly what features IW brought into the DX universe. And I would also like to say again, the teaser proves nothing, merely that augmentation is involved, and the easiest way to display augmentation through a visual medium is a bigass bionic arm. To try and display it with nanites would involve lots of little things running around, shimmers of augmentation research notes and general confusion for most concerned when a metal baby will take the role just as effectivley yet with less animation/complication. There are too many possibilties for us to claim absoloute knowledge.

AaronJ
6th May 2008, 22:58
rhalibus, I'm sorry to say that your response made perfect sense. Their is a possibility for a prequel, yes. But I still have full 100% doubt in it, and that won't change unless some amazing plot is unveiled BEFORE I TURN 74. I mean amazing.

This remains the final prequel thread. No more.

Voltaire
7th May 2008, 09:35
My gut instinct tells me that it's a prequel. GlobalNode, as an analyst of the trailer, you should see that maybe the fetus is metaphorical of a genesis, a beginning, a precursor. You yourself pointed out the indication of a prequel in the concept art, in the form of mechanical parts and such. Personally, I trust the creators enough to believe that they have made the right decisions in terms of productive story work.

Nathan2000
7th May 2008, 14:01
@GruntOwner: Okay, if you're not saying: "let the devs pretend DXIW never existed", then I misunderstood you.


and if you rate IW as highly as DX for canon then I have to question exactly what features IW brought into the DX universe.

Cyborgs competing with a human race (are we obsolete?); neo-luddist movement, trying to preserve purity of human genome; impact of biomodification on the society; fake separation of ideology and political power; surveillance with help of entertainment; privacy as a historical burden... and Aero security bots! Don't forget about them.:D

GruntOwner
7th May 2008, 14:24
NG was a good addition, though the rest of it has been regurgetated so many times by so many things that frankly I didn't care for it. They were just the same old arguments in a different format in most cases. JC's explanation of true democracy was intriguing, though I feel it went against the Helios ending. Helios merged with JC to gain a sense of compassion so he would be better able to understand humans, and JC was a big fan of humanity's diversity, shown by his pro democracy approach in Hong Kong dialogue. To have him turn his back on that and make exactly what the Templar were opposing just made it seem like a souless rip off of the original. Even the impact of biomods was done fairly poorly given that it was 70 years after the first nanites came about, never mind mechs. As for the aero bots, I don't get it. All it did was move around one foot off the ground and shoot things with a very weak chain gun. The military bots from DX were awesome, they made the dround shake with every step and if they saw you it was reason enough to throw in the towel and load. The aero bots didn't even fly.

gamer0004
7th May 2008, 16:08
rhalibus, I'm sorry to say that your response made perfect sense. Their is a possibility for a prequel, yes. But I still have full 100% doubt in it, and that won't change unless some amazing plot is unveiled BEFORE I TURN 74. I mean amazing.

This remains the final prequel thread. No more.

In Holland we say: "De wens is de vader van de gedachte" which means something like: "People think what they want to think, or what - more literally - they wish to be true". I want a prequel and I think it's going to be a prequel, you don't want a prequel and think it isn't going to be a prequel.
The evidence supporting the prequel theory is a bit better though.

LeatherJacket
7th May 2008, 16:34
DX1 actually had an inconsistent world in terms of technology. Things like nano-tech were too advanced yet the cars, sinks, water faucets and especially computers/telephones were very dated. By the time nano-tech is developed we could have much better computer displays. The only thing that's more advanced in the concept art compared to DX1 is the yellow display. A prequel can easily take such liberties.

There just isn't enough concrete evidence. Be open minded and trust the devs :D. Looking at the trailer I thought its a prequel. I don't really care if its a prequel or a sequel, I just want the game to be good.

Closing one of your eyes won't make half of the world disappear :).

Voltaire
7th May 2008, 18:11
In Holland we say: "De wens is de vader van de gedachte" which means something like: "People think what they want to think, or what - more literally - they wish to be true". I want a prequel and I think it's going to be a prequel, you don't want a prequel and think it isn't going to be a prequel.
The evidence supporting the prequel theory is a bit better though.

Dutch wisdom goes a long way. :thumbsup:

People denying evidence of a prequel are kidding themselves.

imported_van_HellSing
7th May 2008, 18:26
There's no evidence either way. But most of the clues we got in the teaser and the concept pic point to a prequel.

gamer0004
7th May 2008, 18:42
DX1 actually had an inconsistent world in terms of technology. Things like nano-tech were too advanced yet the cars, sinks, water faucets and especially computers/telephones were very dated. By the time nano-tech is developed we could have much better computer displays. The only thing that's more advanced in the concept art compared to DX1 is the yellow display. A prequel can easily take such liberties.

There just isn't enough concrete evidence. Be open minded and trust the devs :D. Looking at the trailer I thought its a prequel. I don't really care if its a prequel or a sequel, I just want the game to be good.

Closing one of your eyes won't make half of the world disappear :).

About the car thing: why have anything different from cars? I'm sure they'll still use cars in 2052. Most efficiƫnt. Okay, they looked very cheap, but in DX most people were not as rich as they are today. So they look cheap because they were, I guess. The monitors make sense too, actually. Very easy to move and cheaper than LCD monitors, I guess.

foxberg
7th May 2008, 19:03
The prequel wouldn't make sense. You have to move forward - more weapons, aug options, characters that have history from the previous 2 games take different directions. How about spin on Omar implementing some alien technology to transform? How about those aliens showing up and everybody fights against everybody again? This way you could finish IW with the Omar ending correcting that not the whole civilization vanished but some underground movement survive. A few thousands of them. The whole underground network underneath some cities. Just a thought.

GruntOwner
7th May 2008, 19:53
DX, a game played mostly in slummish urban areas and sprawling research facilities, in a fight to uncover global conspiracies other than the moon landings and roswell, filled with mysterious characters who are less than enthusiastic to trust you in most cases, is not going to become a case of "here's a tunnel, very linear and dependant on close combat making snipers useless, now go pwn some borg" is not going to happen. A common enemy is the worst thing thta can be introduced to DX because it unites people. And we know what heppens when you try and move forward, it was practically star trek in IW, only not even laughable crap, just pure, unadulterated crap. Before DX there is a lot of things that could happen, and seeing as DX was fairly vague in a large amount of fields that held long term effects in the game, a prequel could work. During DX, there is a lot of stuff, none of which is connected to the actual storyline but it's still there. Britain was ignored, there was no detail about psionics, and MJ12 managed to stage a military coup of Paris. Shortly after DX there were 20 years of blindness and realization of just how dependant on our tech we were, and were it not for this being DX, the thought of that in a game would kill me, but DX has ways of making it good and I trust that Eidos can. They have the direct aftermath to play with, the emergence of more and more blatant psi experiements. JC building that godawful fortress thing, Apostlecorp being set up, the Templar taking seat as a political power group, the reactivation of the communication system. After IW, there's either the illuminati holding a lot of power (yawn), the borg stomping around and the only chance for choice would be a freedom fighter akin to John Connor, or an overzealous aryan preaching to us about god. That or the world stumbles into hell and your exploring the supposedly epic aftermath of all the powerful people dying, which is not going to happen because if there are only 2 illuminatus in the world and they were both stiing in a caravan with a body guard who exploded with toxic gas, then they weren't the real illuminati, they were a bunch of amatures with some absoloute GOD on their recruitment drive. God those commandos were one of the worst touched to a game ever. And before anyone says that it went to hell becasue those were the only important figures in the game, of course they were the only sodding fugures in the game; You went to the slums for a bit, not a great place top set up an HQ, Egypt, where you meet one of the people who matter, Germany, where you have a brief chat with 2 of the people who matter and parade it round like a child with a new marble, and Antarctica, where you meet some penguins and a ticked off alien. A sequel to IW is just ridiculous given the options, so a prequel/alternate story seem to be the only options.

Gary_Savage
8th May 2008, 01:17
About the car thing: why have anything different from cars? I'm sure they'll still use cars in 2052. Most efficiƫnt. Okay, they looked very cheap, but in DX most people were not as rich as they are today. So they look cheap because they were, I guess. The monitors make sense too, actually. Very easy to move and cheaper than LCD monitors, I guess.

I like the monitors in DX: they save desktop real estate and yet, create a lot of room on the virtual desktop -- pun intended. Also (if DX3 is a prequel to DX1, and I'm hoping it is) they make more sense than the see-through screens seen in the concept art: you could easily confuse things on the screen with something being worked on in the background; such HUDs are better left, IMO, on airplanes, where you know your velocity vector is not part of the landscape :D

B0b_P@ge
9th May 2008, 03:41
DX, a game played mostly in slummish urban areas and sprawling research facilities, in a fight to uncover global conspiracies other than the moon landings and roswell, filled with mysterious characters who are less than enthusiastic to trust you in most cases, is not going to become a case of "here's a tunnel, very linear and dependant on close combat making snipers useless, now go pwn some borg" is not going to happen. A common enemy is the worst thing thta can be introduced to DX because it unites people. And we know what heppens when you try and move forward, it was practically star trek in IW, only not even laughable crap, just pure, unadulterated crap. Before DX there is a lot of things that could happen, and seeing as DX was fairly vague in a large amount of fields that held long term effects in the game, a prequel could work. During DX, there is a lot of stuff, none of which is connected to the actual storyline but it's still there. Britain was ignored, there was no detail about psionics, and MJ12 managed to stage a military coup of Paris. Shortly after DX there were 20 years of blindness and realization of just how dependant on our tech we were, and were it not for this being DX, the thought of that in a game would kill me, but DX has ways of making it good and I trust that Eidos can. They have the direct aftermath to play with, the emergence of more and more blatant psi experiements. JC building that godawful fortress thing, Apostlecorp being set up, the Templar taking seat as a political power group, the reactivation of the communication system. After IW, there's either the illuminati holding a lot of power (yawn), the borg stomping around and the only chance for choice would be a freedom fighter akin to John Connor, or an overzealous aryan preaching to us about god. That or the world stumbles into hell and your exploring the supposedly epic aftermath of all the powerful people dying, which is not going to happen because if there are only 2 illuminatus in the world and they were both stiing in a caravan with a body guard who exploded with toxic gas, then they weren't the real illuminati, they were a bunch of amatures with some absoloute GOD on their recruitment drive. God those commandos were one of the worst touched to a game ever. And before anyone says that it went to hell becasue those were the only important figures in the game, of course they were the only sodding fugures in the game; You went to the slums for a bit, not a great place top set up an HQ, Egypt, where you meet one of the people who matter, Germany, where you have a brief chat with 2 of the people who matter and parade it round like a child with a new marble, and Antarctica, where you meet some penguins and a ticked off alien. A sequel to IW is just ridiculous given the options, so a prequel/alternate story seem to be the only options.

Man I agree with your post 100%, God I wished Edios could read all that. I especially hated those commandos in DX:IW, or the generic police... God.

However I would like to add to your above post is. Who the hell cares about DX:IW, it was a total load of crap anyway so why even bother continuing from it anyways? In DX1 there was three endings, why not make DX3 just a continuation from one of the other endings, or just remake DX3 from the same ending. I mean, who out of the DX community fanbase would even care if they did that? Who wants all that boring story crap back, or those terrible gameplay?...I'm almost 100% confident that all the DX fans wouldn't care about story continuity if they did that, I mean, who actually likes the story/world/gameplay/guns from DX:IW anyways? :(

GruntOwner
9th May 2008, 15:27
Unfortunately some people think IW contributed in some way. I don't know why, but someone's bound to whine if it gets removed. none important, but someone none the less.

jcp28
9th May 2008, 20:27
You guys are right. Eidos Montreal could make a sequel from one of the three endings in the original Deus Ex, but that was one of the conundrums when Ion Storm discussed making IW. That's ultimately why they decided to combine the three endings. At least that's what PC Gamer said.

Global Node: This ain't gonna be the final prequel thread. Somebody will probably end up starting another one.

jordan_a
9th May 2008, 21:13
No offense GlobalNode but I assume you're aware we already have numerous threads about the prequel thing. :(

AaronJ
9th May 2008, 21:30
Too many, thats why this is the final one.

Anyways, I will cry if this is a prequel.

minus0ne
10th May 2008, 06:45
Too many, thats why this is the final one.
How is that? Do you think it will be stickied or something?

Anyways, I will cry if this is a prequel.
So this is, in fact, your own anti-prequel and anti-speculation thread?

Nathan2000
10th May 2008, 12:53
Unfortunately some people think IW contributed in some way. I don't know why, but someone's bound to whine if it gets removed. none important, but someone none the less.

I have an impression, that true meaning of the word "whining" is "not agreeing with me". And what you said actually means "opinions of other people are less important than mine".

Invisible War contributed to Deus Ex world. How it did that, you can read in my previous post. You can't pass it over with simple "I don't like it" or "it's not original". Nothing is.

I just hate that prattle about how hopeless DXIW is, that it is the worst game ever or insults towards its developers. The people are just easing their frustration, because the game didn't follow their expectations. No surprise, that their most commonly repeated arguments for the game's dumbness are universal ammo and a fact, that the protagonist is not JC. They don't like the overall image so they complain about everything. Absolutely everything.

BTW, I bet that your opinion about Deus Ex 3 will be the same. "My God, this is crap!", "Worst game ever", "It's dumbed down by [a completely irrelevant feature, that you don't like]" and maybe "Deus Ex 4 anyone?".There's no way, it can please everybody, especially when the fans have so specific expectations and zero good will. You can't see any good sides of DXIW because you simply don't want to.

GruntOwner
10th May 2008, 13:03
The one good side I saw to deus ex was a cconstant source of light that did not drain personal resources. Apart from that it was all done to death cliches, spoonfeeding politics/conspiracies and generally a dull, ugly, borderline miscarriage. DX3 will not have these problems becasue everyone has voiced their opinion on the subject and they accept that it was a colosal failiure. MY use of the word "whining" is far from an appropriate piece of proof when you attempt a pshychological analysis of me. It has nothing to do with my opinion taking precedent over their's. It is the undenyable democracy that the majority of the Deus Ex fanbase despise IW compared to the original. Conclusion, those who whine about it being dumbed down, and don't even try and say it wasn't, are only arguing with a majority whom are evidently the more relevant consumers. And before you accuse me of hypocracy for whining about IW, that is becasue it is now relevant, as the same mistakes cannot be afforded again.

Doom972
10th May 2008, 14:13
There is one piece of evidence suggesting whether the game will be a sequel or a prequel, it's at the top of this very page!
It says "Deus Ex 3".
Not "Deus Ex: Chronicles of UNATCO" or "Deus Ex: Rise of the Majestic"

I know the name is just the game's name while it's in the making but if it was to be a prequel they wouldn't name the game as such.
It's perfectly understandible that "die-hard fanboys" don't want to achnowledge the existence of DXIW, some didn't even bother to tried it based on reviews and constant flaming of the game on DX forums, but a sequel to that game is possible as long as the developers have a good storytelling ability.

jcp28
10th May 2008, 18:50
For all we know, Deus Ex 3 might just be the tentative title. But if they tried to make a sequel of the mess that consisted of the endings of Invisible War, it would just be ridiculous. Unless they decided to go from the Tracer Tong/Paul ending. But if Eidos Montreal were to follow the precedent of DX 2 of combing the endings, then we would get a mess. And it would prove they have pretty much jettisoned the DX fan base.

Gary_Savage
10th May 2008, 21:17
There is one piece of evidence suggesting whether the game will be a sequel or a prequel, it's at the top of this very page!
It says "Deus Ex 3".
Not "Deus Ex: Chronicles of UNATCO" or "Deus Ex: Rise of the Majestic"

I know the name is just the game's name while it's in the making but if it was to be a prequel they wouldn't name the game as such.
It's perfectly understandible that "die-hard fanboys" don't want to achnowledge the existence of DXIW, some didn't even bother to tried it based on reviews and constant flaming of the game on DX forums, but a sequel to that game is possible as long as the developers have a good storytelling ability.

Was "Myth 3" a sequel to "Myth 2?" or was it a prequel to the original Myth?

So, now it's okay for "die-hard fanboys" to bash you? :D

_______________________________________________

Myth 2: Soulblighter (if I spelled that right) was a real time strategy game with 3D views of the terrain. It was the first game I tried that had that feature.

GruntOwner
10th May 2008, 22:04
The number holds no power over the game. The "Deus Ex" part proves it to be part of the deus ex licence, and IW wasn't DX2, it was DX:IW. So this must mean that DX2 never happened:eek: It's hidden away deep in some vault where we'll never find it. Look at Farenheight/Indigo Prophecy. Did that name make any sense to you? The marketting team wanted to make an impact so they chose DX3. Frankly, I would have been even more excited ad they announced DX2 and put to rest our fears of IW coming back to haunt us.

Doom972
10th May 2008, 23:32
Myth as an RTS game, it doesn't count :p It's like using SimCity or Civilization as an example. (Don't even bother with Final Fantasy dammit it's a genre by itself).

DXIW was announced as DX2 during development, so it is Deus Ex 2!

I remember people thought it would be rediculous to combine all the endings of DX in DXIW (I was one of them), in the end it seems to have gone well.

Gary_Savage
10th May 2008, 23:53
Myth as an RTS game, it doesn't count :p It's like using SimCity or Civilization as an example. (Don't even bother with Final Fantasy dammit it's a genre by itself).

The argument is about numbers, not about whether a game is an RPG, an FPS, or an RTS :p
Just as Myth 3 was a prequel to Myth 2, DX3 can well be a prequel to DX1. The difference in genre has no bearing on this. I see you completely missed that point, when you mentioned SimCity and Civilization.


DXIW was announced as DX2 during development, so it is Deus Ex 2!

So you don't like the IW tag to DX2? :scratch:

AaronJ
11th May 2008, 00:42
There is one piece of evidence suggesting whether the game will be a sequel or a prequel, it's at the top of this very page!
It says "Deus Ex 3".
Not "Deus Ex: Chronicles of UNATCO" or "Deus Ex: Rise of the Majestic"

I know the name is just the game's name while it's in the making but if it was to be a prequel they wouldn't name the game as such.
It's perfectly understandible that "die-hard fanboys" don't want to achnowledge the existence of DXIW, some didn't even bother to tried it based on reviews and constant flaming of the game on DX forums, but a sequel to that game is possible as long as the developers have a good storytelling ability.

I've already pointed that out before.