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Blade_hunter
28th Apr 2008, 12:42
I think the inventory system are a part of the gameplay i make this poll to see what kind of inventory we want I make some proposals and we choose and say the reasons of our choices.

Fen
28th Apr 2008, 13:18
The dues ex system is simple and well suited to this game. It allows us to see things on quick inspection (size of an item). And limits how much we are allowed to hole in a realistic manner. It gives a visual explanation of why you cannot hold that rocketlauncher, rather than telling you that you can only hold 50kgs and your over that limit etc.

If people are worried about moving the items around, Im all for an auto-organise button. But I like the old deus ex system and would like to see it back

serene_chaos
28th Apr 2008, 13:48
I almost wholly agree with Fen. though i imagine an auto-arrange function could be buggy. perhaps it might be better to have a typical RPG style weight-oriented system, cleverly disguised to be space-oriented instead.

Hisoka
28th Apr 2008, 15:14
DX1 of course!Inventory in DX2 it's not invenroty at all it's a b#ll s*~t!
DX1 inventory is realy perfect!True RPG element.

Voltaire
28th Apr 2008, 18:12
DX1 space-based inventory rocked. Even "inventory tetris" was more bearable over a simplified, dumbed down version that we got in DX2.

@Hisoka: I humbly suggest that you read the forum usage thread at the top of the thread list for guidelines on appropriate forum etiquette ;)

Blade_hunter
29th Apr 2008, 00:09
DX 2 has a true inventory but it's only slot based like Farcry or Blood 2
In blood 2 we don't saw the inventory but it's present
we have the SOF inventory system some weapons take 1, 2 or 3 slots 1 for pistols 2 for smg's/rifles and 3 for heavy weapons
in DX multiplayer the inventory is slot based and has 3 slots for weapons 3 for grenades and the rest are for the tools and the kits

these inventory systems are true inventory but they are only FPS based

DX 1 has a non full RPG inventory because some items acts like some FPS like quake II / unreal 1 for example.
We have the SS2 inventory system but all weapons have the same size and that is the only default of this inventory system.
Stalker has a pretty good inventory system.
We have the Chrome inventory system but the big default of this inventory system is the tiny size of this inventory.


All inventory types are true inventory systems, and not all RPG's has an inventory like throne of darkness or vampire the masquerade for example.

We can propose everything even a modified DX 1 inventory system ....

Aminevo
29th Apr 2008, 00:29
I liked DX 1 system of inventory.

You cant carry everything.

DXeXodus
29th Apr 2008, 04:26
Deus Ex 1 had a great inventory system. It had enough room and there was a lot of info given regarding your weapons, items and mods. You could easily see what ammo you had available and It was great how you could switch through your information screens with those tabs. Some people say it is complex but I thinks its really simple. If you can use a PC then you should be able to use the DX1 inventory screens.

I think a good game to take inspiration from with regards to the inventory system is S.T.A.L.K.E.R. I wouldn't mind this kind of weight based system as it is very realistic indeed. And it was great how you could still move slowly even if you were overloaded (Unlike Morrowind and Oblivion - 'you are over encumbered' - arghh')

Tracer Tong
29th Apr 2008, 13:49
I don't like too much "weight realism"... It's too intensive for DX. DX1 inventory was the best I've ever seen in a game. I had so much fun organising stuff the way I want them to be to save space. Customizability equals replayability.

Voltaire
29th Apr 2008, 14:54
They best thing for me about the DX1 inv. system was being able to visualise what took priority in my inventory.

For example, If I had 6 free spaces and was considering picking up a GEP gun (something I avoided during my first playthrough), I would have to drop 2 squares worth of stuff to accomodate it. I weould have had to consider which enemies I would face, what I was likely to pick up more of, and what I would need for that chapter of the game. If I had 1 EMP grenade, that would probably be chucked, because the GEP can take out bots, turrets amd cameras just like the EMP can. If I had 9 EMP grenades I would probably keep hold of them, as they take up just one space. This is why I think simple items like grenades should be stacked, so that 1 takes up the same amount as 20.

QUESTION: Should size of inventory be on the skill list, i.e. should you be able to invest in more storage using achievement points?

Tracer Tong
29th Apr 2008, 19:12
QUESTION: Should size of inventory be on the skill list, i.e. should you be able to invest in more storage using achievement points?

That's a rather good option! It could be modded into DX1! Should this be the case, the inventory addition has to be minimal, i.e. one row per skill level. (keeping game balance is important)

Fen
29th Apr 2008, 19:42
QUESTION: Should size of inventory be on the skill list, i.e. should you be able to invest in more storage using achievement points?

Sounds like a massive waste of points. I wouldnt go for a larger inventory size if the other options were points towards weapon skills

Blade_hunter
29th Apr 2008, 19:49
I vote the third option because I want a more versatile inventory than the DX inventory; like DX 1 it's square based bigger the weapon is more romme the weapon takes but I want have ammo and the others items on this inventory
weapons are in a part of the inventory.

The weapon inventory we have the fire arms, weapon attachments like under barrel grenade launchers for example and the other melee weapons like a sword the prod and more.
Some weapons like acts like the PS 20 in the first game, instead of DX we can carry more than one on the same place room if the PS 20 takes 1 room we can carry for example 10 of them in the same room to carry more we need an other room every 10 PS carried

The ammo inventory is square based too but for example if we have the rockets we can carry 20 of them in 6 squares (this is only an example) when you want to carry more it takes 6 other squares, it works with all kind of ammo, the hand grenades / mines are on this inventory

The item inventory is for the suits, rebreathers, armors, biocells, medkits, other health affecting items, tools (even the crowbar or an hammer), lock picks, multi tools, weapon mods/ non weapon attachment and other items...

The keys and the money aren't included on this inventory system, these acts like the previous DX.

Some suits are powered, some others aren't like some armors or some suits of course.
Upgradings some skills that makes the suits can be used more longer or take more shots in a case of an armor.
the strength skill upgrades the inventory size that gives an entire line to put objects in them (the line with less squares of course)

I think it's better than have a fixed amount of ammo or items, some items can tales the same room but the smaller items can be carried more than biggers

Fen
29th Apr 2008, 19:56
I vote the third option because I want a more versatile inventory than the DX inventory; like DX 1 it's square based bigger the weapon is more romme the weapon takes but I want have ammo and the others items on this inventory
weapons are in a part of the inventory.

The weapon inventory we have the fire arms, weapon attachments like under barrel grenade launchers for example and the other melee weapons like a sword the prod and more.
Some weapons like acts like the PS 20 in the first game, instead of DX we can carry more than one on the same place room if the PS 20 takes 1 room we can carry for example 10 of them in the same room to carry more we need an other room every 10 PS carried

The ammo inventory is square based too but for example if we have the rockets we can carry 20 of them in 6 squares (this is only an example) when you want to carry more it takes 6 other squares, it works with all kind of ammo, the hand grenades / mines are on this inventory

The item inventory is for the suits, rebreathers, armors, biocells, medkits, other health affecting items, tools (even the crowbar or an hammer), lock picks, multi tools, weapon mods/ non weapon attachment and other items...

The keys and the money aren't included on this inventory system, these acts like the previous DX.

Some suits are powered, some others aren't like some armors or some suits of course.
Upgradings some skills that makes the suits can be used more longer or take more shots in a case of an armor.
the strength skill upgrades the inventory size that gives an entire line to put objects in them (the line with less squares of course)

I think it's better than have a fixed amount of ammo or items, some items can tales the same room but the smaller items can be carried more than biggers

The problem with multiple inventories is that you remove some of the choice from the player. If I want to be able to walk around with 8 different guns, I should be able to (inventory space allowing). However if I do that, im not going to be able to carry much else. On the flip side, I should be able to carry 1 gun and have lots of other things (like armours, medkits, food etc.). Its up to me how I use my inventory.

If there are seperate inventories, then you standardise what everyone is going to be walking around with (2 guns, 4 small items, 5 ammo types). People should be able to prioritise what items they think are more imporant than others, not have an inventory system dictate.

rhalibus
29th Apr 2008, 21:04
QUESTION: Should size of inventory be on the skill list, i.e. should you be able to invest in more storage using achievement points?

I also like this idea; it was actually done in DX2 (strength mod gave you one more slot) and System Shock 2 as well. The S.T.A.L.K.E.R. "weight-based" inventory system seemed too complex--I'd just rather assume that the player can carry as much weight as they want and it's more a matter of organizing space...I just played DX1 last night and the re-organizing of the plasma gun to allow the sniper rifle as well was just enough immersion; I didn't need the added stress of having to deal with the weight...I mean, it's all metal alloy anyway so it's mostly going to add up to the same amount regardless of what weapons you choose to carry...:)

pauldenton
29th Apr 2008, 22:02
I also like this idea; it was actually done in DX2 (strength mod gave you one more slot) and System Shock 2 as well. The S.T.A.L.K.E.R. "weight-based" inventory system seemed too complex--I'd just rather assume that the player can carry as much weight as they want and it's more a matter of organizing space...I just played DX1 last night and the re-organizing of the plasma gun to allow the sniper rifle as well was just enough immersion; I didn't need the added stress of having to deal with the weight

i agree STALKER was good but id prefer a visual system like DX than a weight system, the visual system of DX worked out quicker and less of a pain. all in all i felt i spent way too much time in the STALKER inventory. i liked the DX inventory, but lose the tetris game, this would mean less inventory maintanence and more fun.
rather than getting the message to drop somthing because of a poor arangment you will now only need to drop something when you are actually full.

HouseOfPain
29th Apr 2008, 22:07
I liked the DX1 inventory because it was almost its own minigame. You have to organize or you wont get the full bang for your buck.

One thing I didnt like though is that when you right click a dead body it gives you his items automatically and adds it to your inventory. For the 300th time! I dont want this terrorists 9mm:mad2: ! Blah. If they can fix that I will be happy.

jcp28
30th Apr 2008, 00:23
Deus Ex's inventory, easily. It was easy to access whatever you wanted, whether it be a mod or an item, and activate/access it.

DXeXodus
30th Apr 2008, 04:38
I agree with HouseOfPain... When one right clicks on a body it should be like a more traditional RPG where one can choose what to pick up off that body. That way, we wont need to unload a knife and a pack of smokes every 5 minutes that we keep getting unwillingly.

Fen
30th Apr 2008, 05:28
I agree with HouseOfPain... When one right clicks on a body it should be like a more traditional RPG where one can choose what to pick up off that body. That way, we wont need to unload a knife and a pack of smokes every 5 minutes that we keep getting unwillingly.

A simple toggle system would be better still. You can toggle what to automatically pick up and what to automatically leave on the body.

Blade_hunter
30th Apr 2008, 07:03
In the DX 1 system you are forced to carry each ammo type this changes nothing, and you display an example thats works only with a little inventory and you have only the choice, and perhaps more than you can imagine
but perhaps It's better to explain this system with images than with words. I also forget to explain some particularities

For the pickup the SS2 system was the best; the automatic pickup does thats you lose ammo / items because you are full of them; in SS2 you see your inventory and the inventory of the cadaver / crate.
and you take what do you want and leave thats you don't want, I think it's better to post a screen.

Deadelus
30th Apr 2008, 11:34
I loved the DX1 inventory system. Just one problem with it: Items such as the GEP gun have 'that one space thats not used'. The sniper would've fit comfortably in just 3 slots. The DX2 system just pissed me off. I could pick up the shotgun 3 times and not even know. But then again, more than 20 multitools and such could be carried. :/ I just hope whatever they decide on will be something universally liked and easy to manage.

Blade_hunter
30th Apr 2008, 12:22
The plasma rifle is smaller than the GEP gun and it takes the same place as the GEP gun,
The DX1 inventory is great yes I agree with this, but the DX 2 inventory has only the fact you can carry the same weapon in several numbers, but in DX 2 most of times this have no use; for example carry 2 pistols it can be useful in akimbo mode, revolvers and machine pistols too.

But for the ammo we can carry a limited amount and all ammo types, I prefer to get an inventory that allows the ammo management like the SS2 inventory or chrome (I don't liked the tiny size of this inventory but the only good thing is the ammo management)

If you use only one ammo type for example; ammo for the DX 1 shotgun; in DX 1 you are limited to carry 96 cartridges of each, with my proposal, you can carry all ammo you want; and the only draw back is the inventory size

If the ammo inventory has 80 squares the buckshot ammo takes 4 squares, and sabot takes the same amount. in a shotgun ammo place we can carry 60 shells, if you want more you can carry 120 shells for 8 squares, 180 for 12 squares.
for 10 mm ammo we can propose 1 square for 90 bullets
for rockets we can propose 4 squares for 12 rockets
for 7.62 ammo we can propose 120 bullets for 2 squares
for 30 - 06 we have the same
etc ...

This is just an example

the other items can act at the same manner 15 multitools need for example one square, 30 needs 2 squares, etc ...

for the weapons like the LAW if the weapon takes for example 2x8 (16) squares
we can carry 8 of them and if we want more it can use 32 squares for 16 LAW carried. the only limit is the inventory size

Tracer Tong
30th Apr 2008, 16:52
you made a point here with the no-maximum ammo limit ammo management here... But still, I'd prefer the DX method, which keeps the game balance (or, if you want to keep game balance your way, then loading the other shotgun ammo box should take something like 10 seconds (depends on your skill level)

Blade_hunter
3rd Jun 2008, 18:12
For the ammo management the limit is the inventory size and the ammo we can carry per boxes.
I don't want the STALKER system, I don't want the CHROME system, I want to use a system close to DX 1 / system shock 2, with some enhancements and some management.
Carry napalm canisters is useless if you don"t use a flamethrower, carry assault rifle bullets is useless if you have no weapon that can use it.
In DX we can carry every ammo, but in limited amount, if we can carry the ammo we want to carry and in a less limited number, it can be better than carry all ammo types and most of these cartridges are useless.

On system shock 2 the ammo use one slot but but we can carry an unlimited amount of them per squares.
In DX 1 we can carry a limited amount of grenades per squares.
If we mix these systems we can obtain a more flexible inventory system and use some elements of chrome, stalker can be right and put the inventory at it's more good use.

I want a square based inventory system. when we have no squares the inventory is full.
When an ammo box is full we can use an other slot (lot of squares) to carry more ammo of the same type; it works with the multitools, lockpicks, biocells and every item.
Stronger we are more the inventory have squares, we can carry more items if we are strong than if we are weak.
Of course bigger the item is more slots are needed to carry this item.
If we want to carry some guns with different modifications we can, or get only the attachments and install them when we think they are more useful than the current configuration.
When we want to pick up any item in a corpse or on a weapon in the ground it opens the inventory to choose what we want to pick up.

We can use an inventory that keep clear a great part of our vision like SS2

jordan_a
7th Jun 2008, 20:29
*Full RPG inventory system*

I'd like to be able to carry a very limited amount of items and weapons, but I know it won't happen because it would make the game too difficult.

That's why the only thing players in need of challenge can do is self limitation, restraint, abstinence. :D

New! Inventory (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=76742)

Blade_hunter
7th Jun 2008, 22:18
Depends if they add different choices for the inventory system.
Chrome is a game inspired by DX, in some facts and it use a very restricted inventory, with different zones
one zone for pistol, some little zones for grenade / medkits
two for ammo boxes and an area that allow us to carry the big guns and if we have some free rooms we can add other kind of items.
the very bad thing of this system is the fact we have limited by only 2 - 3 guns max and little amount of accessories. The tiny inventory with little zones upside the main zone.

DX 2 inventory system is an FPS inventory with slots, a big gun takes the same place as a tiny gun or a grenade.

Farcry uses a system close to DX 2 except we have only weapons and no universal ammo

DX 1 inventory was one of the bests with the SS2 inventory system

Stalker inventory uses a weight based system with 3 other slots for the handgun, the longarm and the belt

DX1
good
All items, weapons have a size and the fact it's square based
The inventory is useful to upgrade our weapons, put it in hands, throw items, put them on the shortcuts.
The fact we can see the informations, item description etc ...
The pretty good size of the inventory that allow us we can carry a good number of items
Most items are affected by skills like the armors, medkits, weapons, tools

bad
the armor items takes always one square, their mode of use makes them a bit useless because they have the same system of quake 2 items
the ammo use an FPS system we can carry all kinds of ammo with a limited amount of them


It's a good system but I think it needs some improvements

SS2 system
good
All items have a size one square most of times, except the weapons and the armor items
All items are present on the inventory and we can see our body that carry a weapon, the armor and the implant.
We can replace an item by moving it to the place of an other item
The variable size of it more strong we are more items can be carried
We can manage our weapons and other items like DX 1 change ammo upgrade a weapon, cure us ....
When we wear an armor we have a permanent effect except the implants and the powered armor

bad
The weapons can take always three slots little or big they have the same size, we have no Hand grenades too, but the system works well with this feature because when we change The weapons the other weapon takes the place of the previous weapon.
When we are armed or not that allow us to carry one other weapon or three items.
When we use an implant / armor we can't turn them off to save energy the only mean is to turn them off is to put them on our inventory.
The numbered items like ammo, medkits, accessories, hack devices, upgrade devices, maintenance tools can be carried on infinite number, ( I never seen the limit of them over 500 bullets and 250 shells saved)

It's a good system too but some items can be different like the weapons, all of them takes the same room

I think if we can choose the invetory system or size we can change the gameplay and make the game with an other system / size

serene_chaos
8th Jun 2008, 08:02
really, i dont see much of a difference between weight-based and size-based systems. theyre pretty much the same, if you think about it, besides the tetris.
in the dx size based system, an automatic rifle takes up 4 blocks (i think), while in a weight based system it might take up, say, 40 units. comparing s.t.a.l.k.e.r.'s inventory to DX's, the only real difference is the space on the interface- s.t.a.l.k.e.r. is unlimited, and dx is extremely limited. imagine if dx's inventory box was scrollable and almost infinite, but still had an imaginary limit of 'blocks' that could be filled, it would, effectively, be a typical weight-oriented system.
Reiterating, the only thing that really sets DX inventory apart from weight-based inventories, is the tetris.

Mactypetim
8th Jun 2008, 21:02
I picked a full-on RPG inventory because perhaps that would solve some of the misconceptions, and some difficulties of the DX 1 inventory. DX is after all a 3D RPG, and RPGs are all about choice and style of play, and I think that should be emphasized strongly in a DX 3.

Currently I'm used to oblivion where ammunition like arrows have weight, yet I share the opinion that weight should not be an issue... only space.

Blade_hunter
9th Jun 2008, 23:48
Hum I think weight or square based can be used.
I prefer to use square based for the ease of use, the square system can be similar a s a weight system, in DX 1 it looks like close of a squares = weight, but sometimes some weapons takes more rooms as some others.
I don't remember but the dragons' tooth uses 4 squares and have the same weight as the crowbar
the accuracy of DX inventory is somewhat low but some items can be carried in a good number.
I loved to get a small item size, in DX 2 they keep this (when we see an item on the ground of course)
In the game chrome the inventory is accurate but this accuracy is most of times useless and makes this inventory complex for nothing
In SS2 the inventory is somewhat specific, it's not very accurate but we can carry a great number of items when we have a good strength
I think like SS2 and the fact on DX 2 we have the muscle aug we have more slots
the inventory must be upgradeable
In the game stalker we haven't character upgrades

If we use a weight system we can carry more weight
for the squares we can gain a line or a lot of squares depends on the inventory form.

The inventory can be upgraded by accessories like a back pack or a bandoleer or a belt,
they can be used by the two systems in different forms.

We can use a system that combines the two but it can add more difficulty for nothing added.

But I propose a system later and perhaps with more explanations thant my previous proposal

KnightsoftheRound
9th Jun 2008, 23:59
Definitely the original Deus Ex system. It might be "complex" but it's well organized, and really not that hard to understand.

The Invisible War inventory system is overly simplistic and thus is needlessly convoluted and confusing for anyone who has an IQ above 5.

Blade_hunter
10th Jun 2008, 21:39
Yes the DX 1 system was one of the bests, I agree the bad things are we can't manage our ammo; Ok it simplifies the inventory management, but the fact we can't manage it makes one thing more difficult to us is to see how much ammo we have and the fact we have ammo for weapons we don't use. On some replays, to save ammo I use these weapons when an enemy die and carry a weapon, I don't normally use or carry to spend my ammo.
Some items works like a Quake 2 bonus and have a very small size for an armor the pistol have the same size as the hazard suit and the thermoptic camo and the rebreather.
the rebreather is normally small because it's smaller than a helmet.
I wanted to see some pieces of armor like a helmet, thigh pads, boots, gauntlets, and more
I will talk about it in an other post.


Inventory systems the inventory must be compatible with the handling (one handed or two handed accessories)
the armor port If we have a special equipment slots or it stay on our main inventory
It allows separate slots or stay in one group like DX or SS2 inventory or be separate like STALKER or Chrome

We can separate the pistol pockets, knife pocket, the shotgun attach system, the bandoleer, the belt and the backpack.
The previous system can be realistic or not, but it can kills the freedom even if we can put a small SMG on the pistol pocket or a sword in the shotgun attach system

We can make a single and universal inventory. or like DX an universal inventory without ammo management

We can use separate inventories one for weapons, one other for ammo and one other for items.

We can use an inventory with a place for carry and slots for body equipment like armors helmets and more

We can use an inventory that allow several slots for weapons and slots for accessories with a size limitation
For example the first slots is for a meles weapon the fists next are for small weapons ,the 3 slots after allows small and medium weapons, and the last of them allows small, medium and heavy weapons.
for items we have slots for them and a body equipment slots,
the ammo can use a sort of slots offered by the weapon slots or use inventory for them or be used by a limited account of each

We can use slots like DX 2
or more enhanced slots like
SOF 1
pistols = 1
smg's - rifles = 2
heavy = 3 (RL, FT, MPG)
SOF forces us to carry the knife, the knife is the only melee weapon.
For a game like DX of course each melee weapons must have size.
Knives, prod, small batons, etc = 1
Crowbar, sabers = 2
Large melee weapons = 3

We can use system like SS2, the hand for weapons and psychic amplifier, the body for the armor, slot(s) for the implants, weapons takes 3 rooms like the hand slot, suits takes 4 like the armor slot, the implants takes the same room as many items (one room)



We have many available systems and most of them can be used for DX 3 I want to submit 3 systems inspired by DX, many games and of course systems spoken before
All of my systems were square based like DX and many games with RPG inventories



-Universal inventory

All items are present on this inventory when we grab one item we can find it on this inventory, we have much squares and when we use an item it stay on the inventory the ammo isn't really loaded on a weapon (like DX),when we use an armor it stay on the inventory and when the item is depleted destroyed it stay always, we can throw it, or repair it if maintenance is added, or refill it if we can find refills for it.


-Separate inventory types

I've spoken about it before, but I want to give more explanation
We have 3 inventories
°One for weapons, on this inventory we can carry, fire arms, swords, prods and all items that their primary function are to be a weapon, we can carry weapon attachments and upgrades here.
°One for ammo, on this inventory we can find the ammo for each weapon, and we can find the grenades, mines and other explosive devices that can be deposited or threw by hand to work.
°One for tools, on this inventory we can find, the biocells the crowbars, the wrenches, the medkits, the suits, shields, food and other items that can't be carried on the previous inventories.



-Semi universal inventory with some slots

This inventory is similar as some as I spoken before but with my own conception

°Little pocket, this inventory allows us to carry a small weapon or small items
°The belt, this inventory is for many smaller items the form and the size makes it for little items, we can't carry a pistol for example
The coat, this inventory is designed to carry a big weapon with some little items it be divided on two parts
°The backpack this inventory is designed to carry everything as possible.
the body, the body can carry only suits each suit takes body parts or the entire body , the other suits are stored on the backpack or on the coat, the goggles or items like this are can be stored everywhere.

-The size of them can be good, great, or small, eventually tiny, perhaps if a player can choose the size it can be more enjoyable.
-The money isn't on the inventory, the keyring can be present but we can't manage it or we can manage it if the game wants it.
-All of my inventories allows the ammo management.
-The ammo and numbered items can be carried in one or several numbers on the same room spaces. when a number is reached it can take the same room spaces and allows the same number of items, we can carry the same item in several numbers, the only limit is the inventory size.
-All inventory systems should be upgradeable with skills and items, it should be customizable.
-When we pickup items, we can see the list and choose what we want to grab
-All items have a description and we can see the characteristics and the upgrades on them. we can use the inventory to upgrade, manage, reload and do many things with items.
-We can use custom slots like DX or use a key system that can "summon" a kind of item


I said the primary things of my ideas about inventory systems. of course I can submit other things, but I don't think each ones likes my suggestions about it.
I don't speak about the accuracy of the squares if we have tiny squares, medium sized or big squares compared to an item.
I just want some comments and ideas of course I think this post is a part for ideas for everyone ....

Lady_Of_The_Vine
2nd Jul 2008, 20:25
I voted for the first option: DX 1 inventory system why an other system

For pretty much the same reasons others have stated. :cool:

El_Bel
8th Jul 2008, 23:49
Deus ex 1 system. But..!! We should be able to rotate the weapons!!

Like this http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d155/Dentonas/?action=view&current=inventory.jpg

Nothing else should change.. Having to worry about ammo is a bit too much.

Chemix
9th Jul 2008, 01:47
I think that the inventory should actually be placed on the player; in various holsters and straps and pockets. I hate arbitrary systems and invisible pockets as they simply make inventory more work than it should be. Large rifles get a shoulder or back strap, pistols get holsters, etc. etc.

gh0s7
9th Jul 2008, 09:32
I voted for the first option: DX 1 inventory system why an other system

For pretty much the same reasons others have stated. :cool:

x2 :D

Blade_hunter
9th Jul 2008, 09:52
I think that the inventory should actually be placed on the player; in various holsters and straps and pockets. I hate arbitrary systems and invisible pockets as they simply make inventory more work than it should be. Large rifles get a shoulder or back strap, pistols get holsters, etc. etc.

This is the same as my "semi universal inventory", no ?

Chemix
9th Jul 2008, 12:13
I don't see that option on the poll

Blade_hunter
9th Jul 2008, 12:36
-Semi universal inventory with some slots

This inventory is similar as some as I spoken before but with my own conception

°Little pocket, this inventory allows us to carry a small weapon or small items
°The belt, this inventory is for many smaller items the form and the size makes it for little items, we can't carry a pistol for example
The coat, this inventory is designed to carry a big weapon with some little items it be divided on two parts
°The backpack this inventory is designed to carry everything as possible.
the body, the body can carry only suits each suit takes body parts or the entire body , the other suits are stored on the backpack or on the coat, the goggles or items like this are can be stored everywhere.


This inventory is square based and stay an RPG inventory, I don't mention all things and separations, but the main system is separate locations of the body that allow to carry correct sized items.
For example we have a slot with 6x2 squares we can carry a low amount of big / medium items, or a lot of little items.
If we have a slot for example the pocket ,we can carry only little items like pistols, ammo, grenades...

I don't put it in the poll because I don't thought about it when I made this thread, some features aren't the wanted features but anyone can say I want this inventory without this feature and/or with an additional feature...

I submitted the idea in a post before but perhaps nobody reads it ...

Ghostdog
9th Jul 2008, 12:38
The basic idea should be like in DX1, but I don´t mind if EM puts their own design in.

Blade_hunter
9th Jul 2008, 14:58
In all facts DX uses a sort of RPG square based inventory.

The squares are "big", some too little items like the zyme, the PS 20 and many others take the same room as the ballistic armor, the fire extinguisher was improved on DX 2 with 3 shots
Some items like suits take only one square, for their mean of working it's not very important, but, when I tried to propose more enhanced suits, it's to give them a realistic counterpart.
true suits doesn't work like DX and don't take the same room as the pistol.
I think a "more accurate inventory" is an improvement
I think the ammo management allow us to choose if we want to carry most kind of ammo in the reduced amount of them, or a lower kind of ammo but with a large amount of each.
If we have no weapon that requires ammo we can choose to don't carry any ammo
Some weapons / items are themselves a sort of ammo like the grenades, the bottles, the tools, that isn't very different to see some cartridges in the inventory, we can see for example (I take the 10 mm ammo)
Ammo count: 130
10 mm ammo
If we want to carry more we can see for example
Ammo count: 150 - Ammo count: 23
- 10 mm ammo ------- 10 mm ammo


The LAW in DX have a big inconvenient it's the fact we can't carry more than one, to enhance it for non reloadable weapons is the fact we can carry them in several numbers in the same amount of squares.
The LAW in DX take 4 square, with my system we can carry for example 10 of them in the same amount of them, if we want more than 10 LAWs we must use 4 other squares and carry them up to 20.

The LAM's and many items can be carried in several amount in the same square, but we can't carry more than the "limit" If we want to carry more than 10 LAM's in DX, we can't, but with my proposal we can.
If I take the Exact DX inventory If I want to carry up to 10 LAMs I must use one square, If I want to carry up to 20 LAMs I must use 2 squares for the LAMs, 30 = 3 squares, etc ...

With my system we can choose if we want a large amount of weapons or a lower amount of them.

My inventory will "grow" or allow to carry more items if we have more strength

An inventory is a mean to introduce an item management it's for that reason most of us prefers the DX1 inventory than the DX 2 inventory.
For me I want to propose a sort of mix between DX 1 and SS2

My "universal inventory" is the mix that keep in my thought the best of the two systems and keep the max freedom with item management (I don't give all features like the square accuracy but I can give more information about it.....)

The others give less freedom, because they use separations, I can propose many systems that could be used in DX, but thats all...

carldavid1887
9th Jul 2008, 15:14
I opted for the DX 1 inventory.
It was convenient and challenging you to to decide what to keep and what to drop which concerns your style of play. Manipulating the belt and changing the ammo needed only one or two clicks. The hero is an artificially-enhanced tough guy; the weight of the items shouldn't affect the capability of your already space-constricted inventory.

El_Bel
9th Jul 2008, 15:44
In all facts DX uses a sort of RPG square based inventory.

The squares are "big", some too little items like the zyme, the PS 20 and many others take the same room as the ballistic armor, the fire extinguisher was improved on DX 2 with 3 shots
Some items like suits take only one square, for their mean of working it's not very important, but, when I tried to propose more enhanced suits, it's to give them a realistic counterpart.
true suits doesn't work like DX and don't take the same room as the pistol.
I think a "more accurate inventory" is an improvement
I think the ammo management allow us to choose if we want to carry most kind of ammo in the reduced amount of them, or a lower kind of ammo but with a large amount of each.
If we have no weapon that requires ammo we can choose to don't carry any ammo
Some weapons / items are themselves a sort of ammo like the grenades, the bottles, the tools, that isn't very different to see some cartridges in the inventory, we can see for example (I take the 10 mm ammo)
Ammo count: 130
10 mm ammo
If we want to carry more we can see for example
Ammo count: 150 - Ammo count: 23
- 10 mm ammo ------- 10 mm ammo


The LAW in DX have a big inconvenient it's the fact we can't carry more than one, to enhance it for non reloadable weapons is the fact we can carry them in several numbers in the same amount of squares.
The LAW in DX take 4 square, with my system we can carry for example 10 of them in the same amount of them, if we want more than 10 LAWs we must use 4 other squares and carry them up to 20.

The LAM's and many items can be carried in several amount in the same square, but we can't carry more than the "limit" If we want to carry more than 10 LAM's in DX, we can't, but with my proposal we can.
If I take the Exact DX inventory If I want to carry up to 10 LAMs I must use one square, If I want to carry up to 20 LAMs I must use 2 squares for the LAMs, 30 = 3 squares, etc ...

With my system we can choose if we want a large amount of weapons or a lower amount of them.

My inventory will "grow" or allow to carry more items if we have more strength

An inventory is a mean to introduce an item management it's for that reason most of us prefers the DX1 inventory than the DX 2 inventory.
For me I want to propose a sort of mix between DX 1 and SS2

My "universal inventory" is the mix that keep in my thought the best of the two systems and keep the max freedom with item management (I don't give all features like the square accuracy but I can give more information about it.....)

The others give less freedom, because they use separations, I can propose many systems that could be used in DX, but thats all...

I'm sorry but i don't see a reason why we need an ammo inventory/manager. As a gamer, why do you care about picking up ammo you don't use?

Blade_hunter
9th Jul 2008, 18:41
maybe if there was an ammo converter, so if you have 2000 clips of ammo for the assault gun, but you use only mini crossbow you could turn the unused bullets in to something useful... But you will always loose something, say 50% of the value of the bullet.. So its just a desperate movement if you are in need of ammo.. Uhm, but i dont think that should make it to Deus Ex 3. Dont kill me!!!

Perhaps you proposed an ammo converter ?

In your proposal you take care about useless ammo, no ?

My proposal it's to don't have a fixed amount of ammo, it's the fact we can have a choice, and perhaps use your favorite ammo where you want and carry a large amount of it if you want, it's not to have an "ammo manager", in FPS you always manage the ammo even if you don't use an inventory...
When you have a weapon with for example a total of 200 you have 186 cartridges, you have an ammo pack with 50 bullets and ans many FPS when you take the ammo you take all and loose the rest because you have a limited amount of it.
When you have a powerful weapon with rare ammo you want spend the ammo of a weaker weapon because you have many cartridges of the weaker weapon in the level
When you don't use a weapon in many FPS we have the ammo in a limited amount of each even if we don't carry it.

Theses examples are ammo management.

In DX we can carry ammo because we can, but in limited amount of each event the useless ammo, the only mean in DX to make this ammo "useful" it is to find the weapon that can use it and that allow us to save the "useful" ammo.
But sometimes we are full on ammo and we can't carry more ammo because we have a limited amount of it, and can carry useless ammo, for me it's a logic thing.

I will take an example of inventories with a full DX system and a DX system that allow us to manage ammo like an other item with my additional features

In DX when we can carry only 300 7.62x51 mm cartridges, and every other ammo in their limited amount, 96 for shot shells, 64 for darts, etc even if they are useless...
With an ammo management the ammo can be chosen like the game SS2 for example and with the wanted maximum amount of it (in SS2 the ammo per slots looks like to be unlimited but I want to keep a limit by slots used and we use more slots if we want more), the only true limit is the inventory size, not a fix amount.
An inventory, the lot of kind of ammo, is management, I don't know why the ammo will make the game too complicated or what ever, the grenades are a sort of ammo we can manage, the biocells etc... but I don't liked the limit of them when we have free rooms
the fact we can carry useless ammo instead of carry more of the useful ammo.

And when we search items in a corpse we can't select what we want to carry, In SS2 for example when we search items in corpses and crates we can put every items in the ground and the ammo too, and we can grab them later.

I take care about useless ammo because I can grab this ammo even if I don't generally use it but I prefer sometimes use it instead of spend the Ammo of my favorite weapons, I use sometimes the AR cartridges only to spend it for break crates.

I think I'm not alone to take care about useless ammo, I think the DX world have Useful stuff and useless, and thats makes the game rich and allow many kind of players to play this game

Necros
14th Jul 2008, 10:41
DX 1 inventory system. :cool: Of course tweaked to be even better but basically the same design. :thumbsup: They can do something else for the consoles, I don't care about that.

Oym
14th Jul 2008, 20:26
DX 1 inventory system without hesitation .. It was perfect , they just need to do it again !

Freddo
14th Jul 2008, 22:48
I like the Deus Ex inventory. It wasn't perfect, though, as one often had to play "inventory tetris", but it was certainly good enough.

But maybe it should be more weight-based rather than using inventory blocks.

v.dog
14th Jul 2008, 23:57
I like the Deus Ex inventory. It wasn't perfect, though, as one often had to play "inventory tetris", but it was certainly good enough.

But maybe it should be more weight-based rather than using inventory blocks.Ala Stalker? That could work, just as long as I don't have to choose between ammo and pies. :)

Oym
15th Jul 2008, 18:29
Of course it was good enough , I even liked the " tetris thing " though ! :D

Blade_hunter
16th Jul 2008, 19:00
The well known DX interface
Maps / Images (http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusex/liberty1/DeusEx-2003-11-04-09-13-39-.jpg)
Hack / login system (http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusex/liberty2/DeusEx-2003-11-08-23-27-44-.jpg)
Biomods (http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusex/liberty2/DeusEx-2003-11-09-12-06-49-.jpg)
Skills (http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusex/airfield1/DeusEx-2003-11-17-00-29-07-.jpg)
Biomods (http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusex/hellskitchen3/DeusEx-2003-12-15-01-03-41-.jpg)
Map / Images (http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusex/hongkong1/DeusEx-2003-12-20-16-41-00-.jpg)
inventory (http://i.testfreaks.com/images/products/600x400/246/deus-ex-pc.227830.jpg)

The SS2 Interface
Inventory / skill show (http://www.gameblog.fr/images/jeux/med/1044/SystemShock2_PC_Ed_004.jpg)
Inventory / hack system (http://www.clubic.com/afficher-en-plein-ecran-107335.html)
HUD (http://www.clubic.com/afficher-en-plein-ecran-107337.html)
Search corpse (http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/systemshock2/science/shock2-2005-07-17-00-48-38-.jpg)
Search corpse (http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/systemshock2/science/shock2-2005-07-17-01-38-44-.jpg)
Skill upgrade (http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/systemshock2/science/shock2-2006-06-02-21-15-13-.jpg)
Chamical room (chemical components are for research) (http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/systemshock2/science/shock2-2006-06-04-14-45-38-.jpg)
Using a keypad (http://www.activewin.com/reviews/hardware/graphics/matrox/g400/images/sshock2_1.jpg)

The chrome interface
HUD (http://l.yimg.com/jh/content/p/3/651388/chrome_112303_005_screen001.jpg)
a littls combat (http://videogames.yahoo.com/pc/chrome/screenshot-4)
Hacking system (http://l.yimg.com/jh/content/p/4/651375/chrome_112303_018_screen001.jpg)
Prepare a mission (left Items we can choose, right the inventory (http://l.yimg.com/jh/content/p/5/651369/chrome_112303_024_screen001.jpg)
Search corpse and inventory (http://l.yimg.com/jh/content/p/1/651351/chrome_112303_042_screen001.jpg)

Vampire the masquerade
Game hud (we can see the powers and 5 quick slots for scrolls and vials) (http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/gs/rpg/vampire/vampire_screen002.jpg)
Trade system with inventory (http://media.cnetnetworks.fr/gamekult-com/images/photos/00/00/00/19/ME0000001907_2.jpg)

I will show different UI and inventories seen in games

Oym
16th Jul 2008, 19:44
When I said it was " perfect " ( DX1's inventory ) , I didn't mean perfect as without any flaws , but perfect for what Dx3 ought to be :D

I don't see why we should change it , moreover it would remember us how good was Dx1 :)

Blade_hunter
16th Jul 2008, 23:04
I understood your answer, you think it's perfect.
About the DX inventory system, I never think this inventory is a bad inventory system, I think It's good, much better than DX 2 FPS inventory system, but I think DX 1 inventory need improvements.

Oym
17th Jul 2008, 06:46
I agree , as you can imagine there's always better than better :) .

I just hope they'll take deus ex 1 inventory as a base and then , if they are up to it , try to enhance it .

Blade_hunter
26th Jul 2008, 11:10
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9109/spector10pp5.gif (http://imageshack.us)

I just wanted to show what is ammo management in inventory
Ok if we add this we need more squares, but for me that's not a problem, but that's my own definition about the universal inventory

You have an inventory and all items can be managed in the same space
It's practical because we know immediately if we have a specific ammo, and the amount of it.

TrickyVein
23rd Aug 2008, 21:59
what if we relied more on the weight of objects instead of the space that they take up? did it ever really make sense that even though the gep gun was in your inventory all the time it only slowed you down when you magically "took it out" of your null time pocket/inventory?

allowing the player less room to carry inventory forces the player to make some strategic decisions about offensive and defensive baggage. Otherwise, it feels too much like a FPS where you have 20 some guns at your disposal all the time. I'd much prefer being able to carry fewer weapons and having more gadgets like fire extinguishers at your disposal to blind opponents.

jordan_a
23rd Aug 2008, 22:44
Amen to that.

That's something the developers have to think about when they are creating the difficulty levels: to adjust the limits of the inventory according to the level chosen.

Igoe
24th Aug 2008, 05:11
I liked DX's inventory system. It made you think, and it wasn't too overly simplistic. It had enough limitations to make sure you couldn't carry EVERYTHING, while at the same time had enough simplifications to keep gameplay streamlined.

To me, IW's inventory was a bit too simplistic. Allowing a pistol and a rocket launcher to occupy the same space doesn't sit right with me, at least in theory. There needs to be a kind of "punishment" for carrying a larger weapon, because of its enhanced firepower. In IW this was done with the ammunition, and I get that, but I'd like to think there won't be universal ammo in DX3.

While ammunition taking up inventory space IS a very realistic approach, I dont particularly like it. Ammo is something I'd rather not have to think about.

I tried it in Resident Evil 4, and I have to admit I wasn't a huge fan. I'd LIKE (personal preference) for ammo to have that magical etheral quality that allows me to carry it in hammerspace, where I don't have to juggle it.

I all ready have to choose between the shotgun and the assault rifle, I'd rather not have to worry about the shotgun ammo and my pistol ammo having to battle it out.

gamer0004
24th Aug 2008, 08:26
what if we relied more on the weight of objects instead of the space that they take up? did it ever really make sense that even though the gep gun was in your inventory all the time it only slowed you down when you magically "took it out" of your null time pocket/inventory?

allowing the player less room to carry inventory forces the player to make some strategic decisions about offensive and defensive baggage. Otherwise, it feels too much like a FPS where you have 20 some guns at your disposal all the time. I'd much prefer being able to carry fewer weapons and having more gadgets like fire extinguishers at your disposal to blind opponents.

I partly agree but... have you got any idea how heavy fire extinguishers are :rasp:

Anyway, I think that having more weight should slow you down, but equipping the GEP gun should slow you down even more (when you're not trained in heavy weapons) because carrying something heavy in your hands is a lot harder than carrying something on your back.

Blade_hunter
24th Aug 2008, 15:22
I partly agree but... have you got any idea how heavy fire extinguishers are :rasp:

Anyway, I think that having more weight should slow you down, but equipping the GEP gun should slow you down even more (when you're not trained in heavy weapons) because carrying something heavy in your hands is a lot harder than carrying something on your back.

I agree with that, but if I tried to propose many inventories is to get some fresh stuff, about the inventory can be adapted with the difficulties levels that thing was done in SOF 1 & 2 and should be added in DX or add the ability to customize the game before the beginning to like SOF or System shock 1

My poll needs some changes because we need more choices.

Absentia
24th Aug 2008, 17:05
A simple toggle system would be better still. You can toggle what to automatically pick up and what to automatically leave on the body.

This is kinda old because it's from the first page, but I think this is an awesome idea. Lets say that by default, everything is always picked up. So then you go into your inventory, highlight something and set it so it doesn't pick that up anymore.
Alternately, something in the veign of STALKER could be the case, where it displays what they have and you double click to take what you want, or press a button to "take all".

I don't like the idea of weight so much. One interesting but annoying thing on STALKER is that ammo takes up a surprisingly large amount of weight. Me being an FPS player by heart, i decide to take every piece of ammo i can get my hands on, suddenly i find i can't move and have to go into my inventory (which doesnt pause the game, another annoying thing) and drop the ammo i don't need.

It seriously doesn't bother me that I am able to carry around a rocket launcher and a fire extinguisher when in reality thats not possible. Realism is something that I think people pay too much attention to. If a game was truly realistic, it'd be boring. Reality is often boring, that's what games are there for. Games are there so you can find yourself near a fire and then think "wow what a great idea it was to bring that fire extinguisher with me!" without being limited by the constraints of reality where you wouldnt bring a fire extinguisher with you. In reality you might just get burnt to death by the fire. Isn't that fun!

TrickyVein
26th Aug 2008, 23:49
because carrying something heavy in your hands is a lot harder than carrying something on your back.

and lo! But wait! Consider: what of the consequences incurred by brandishing ye mighty gep gun...

on a LADDER????? :scratch:

gamer0004
27th Aug 2008, 13:55
and lo! But wait! Consider: what of the consequences incurred by brandishing ye mighty gep gun...

on a LADDER????? :scratch:

That is probably impossible.

DXeXodus
28th Aug 2008, 04:37
Votes for a DX 1 inventory system: 61
Votes for a DX 2 inventory system: 0

I didn't notice that until now :p

K^2
28th Aug 2008, 04:46
Votes for a DX 1 inventory system: 61
Votes for a DX 2 inventory system: 0Number of surprised people: 2 ex-employees of Ion Storm who lurk around here at nights.

Blade_hunter
28th Aug 2008, 10:02
This poll have some 2 - 3 options that would mean approximatively the same thing, and some inventories were proposed, even if they aren't my favorites for all, but some interesting ideas were submitted here.
A new thread with the newer ideas will be better because many ideas were submitted and this poll makes more the comparison between DX 1 and DX 2 inventory

ewanlaing
28th Aug 2008, 22:10
I can't believe so many people voted for the DX 1 system. It was totally flawed.
As was already mentioned, you were able to run around with all these heavy guns, but you only slowed down when you took them out. You were able to carry tons of weapons, but not one of them showed up on the characters image.
Worst of all, for some reason the player is choosing between carrying a GEP gun or a 8 candy bars. Why would they be kept in the same place?
I think we need a system that takes weight and realism into account. We need to limit players a little bit more. I was able to carry a machine gun, a rocket launcher and a shotgun, as well as a couple of pistols in DX 1, and that doesn't really make any sense!

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Aug 2008, 22:20
I think the number of votes for the DX1 inventory system may be for "nostalgia" reasons as well. ;)
You know, a return to the original inventory would provide that 'feel good' factor.
Not a difficult choice if compared to DX:IW anyway. :)

K^2
29th Aug 2008, 01:42
I can't believe so many people voted for the DX 1 system. It was totally flawed.
As was already mentioned, you were able to run around with all these heavy guns, but you only slowed down when you took them out. You were able to carry tons of weapons, but not one of them showed up on the characters image.
Worst of all, for some reason the player is choosing between carrying a GEP gun or a 8 candy bars. Why would they be kept in the same place?
I think we need a system that takes weight and realism into account. We need to limit players a little bit more. I was able to carry a machine gun, a rocket launcher and a shotgun, as well as a couple of pistols in DX 1, and that doesn't really make any sense!
The weight thing should absolutely certainly be accounted for. I agree. I mean, a GEP gun you are carrying in your hands should slow you down a bit more than when it hangs on your back, but it should slow you down some either way.

I also agree that the system needs some work. I think, some items should stack into a single slot. That includes things like candy bars, lock picking tools, and other small items like that. Maybe up to 5 per slot? Or even have the maximum stack size depend on the item type. So 10 candy bars, 4 lock picking tools, or 1 case of ammo.

What I think is the main reason people voted for DX1 system is to contrast it to the IW system. Between the two, DX1 system is more appropriate for a stealth game that has strong focus on equipment management.

A slightly more RPG-ish system might be good, actually. Have some "Backpack" space that works a lot like DX1 inventory, but also have a few specialized slots "on the character". Like, have a couple of belt slots for 'nades. Maybe a holster space for a hand gun. Single slot to wear rocket launcher, flame thrower, or something similar on the back. Things like that.

ewanlaing
30th Aug 2008, 01:07
Yeah, good points. I guesss I didn't take the nostalgia thing into account at all.

I'm a little worried that the developers will completely cave in and try to recreate Deus Ex 1, without really improving the gameplay.

It seems like people often don't realise just how flawed the original game was in some areas. In fact, I reckon it was just as flawed as IW, just in different areas. And since people had such high hopes for IW, it seemed like more of a big deal.

Blade_hunter
31st Aug 2008, 00:41
The DX system isn't totally unrealistic, because some items that takes one slot can be carried in several amount in the same slot, the bad thing is the fact when you want to carry more for example more than 15 medkits you can't even if you have a sufficient space to have an other pile of 15 medkits...

For more realism we can make a more accurate square based system, or a weight system.

ewanlaing
31st Aug 2008, 11:45
To be honest, I don't even think the player should be allowed to carry 15 medkits. I think there should be a lot less space to carry all your stuff. It would make the game more interesting and encourage players to constantly change tactics.

Blade_hunter
31st Aug 2008, 16:50
Play at chrome and see if your idea is interesting or not

ewanlaing
31st Aug 2008, 23:29
Haha! I think that would be a fair point, if anything else about Chrome was any good!

Seriously though, that's what I liked about stalker. It limited how much you could carry with weight, and that meant you had to make some interesting choices about your inventory and the way you approached different situations.

If the system lets you carry tons of medkits, it's really no better than the DX2 system.

Blade_hunter
1st Sep 2008, 00:22
Why the DX 1 inventory is much better than DX 2, and you can carry 15 medkits in one slot and DX 2 allows only 10 in one slot.

For me the chrome inventory is too small, and I disliked to carry a too low amount of items, but that's my point, some players wants to use a very limited inventory, some others prefers a wide inventory but with limitations, some others perhaps wants 0 limits, and some others prefers a medium size, but in my opinion the inventory size can be set by an option like some other options.

An inventory system it's an overall, I diliked in DX 2 it's the kind of inventory the space alowed in DX 2 wasn't the problem it's the fact the DX 2 inventory ignores the size / weight of an item, a rocket launcher that takes the same space as a simple pistol it's a bit strange, even if some games use a system close to it. the first game to use system like DX 2 was blood 2, but it's only for weapons.
Carry 10 - 15 or even 20 medkits wasn't a problem, In DX games you can find sometimes a medbot, why this can be a problem ?
in STALKER most items were rare it gives a sort of survival feel
in chrome the inventory forces you to change tactics because We can't carry a sufficient weaponry to be efficient.

An other thing is the fact we can use the regeneration biomod, when I use this mod the medkits were completely useless for me, and I use this slot for grenades or other items. in DX sometimes I changed strategies, but very very limited inventory makes the weapon upgrade a la DX 1 a bit useless, because you must change always tactics, by changing contently our weaponry, in chrome, no weapons have multiple ammo one weapon is one ammo, in DX most weapons have 2 ammo.

The game is about choices and the DX 1 an 2 inventories disallow us to carry everything even if we can carry a good amount of weapons, the bad thing on DX 2 is the fact I can carry more than 10 heavy weapons, in DX 1 we can only carry 3 at maximum or more light weapons, in DX 2 I don't feel the difference by carrying an heavy weapon or not, it's for that reason I hated it, for a sequel to DX propose an inventory more simple than SOF inventory it doesn't make any sense like many things in DX 2.

But I want to propose an other inventory thread to be more explicit and avoid some confusions.

K^2
1st Sep 2008, 19:19
It seems like people often don't realise just how flawed the original game was in some areas. In fact, I reckon it was just as flawed as IW, just in different areas. And since people had such high hopes for IW, it seemed like more of a big deal.
DX had a lot of problems. But these problems were of "this is not realistic" kind. This goes from the way boxes stacked, to some animations, to the inventory. But see, all these things were still balanced, and if you just pretended for a moment that this is how things should work in real world, it didn't distract you at all from gameplay. Add to that a great story and it is no wonder that people don't realize that DX had major flaws.

IW problems distracted from gameplay. Again, inventory, atrocious physics, coffee-break-long loading times. Gameplay by itself was pretty good, but then you add all these distractions, somewhat dry storyline, and you get a game that does not quite deliver.

But you make a very good point. If developers will go and simply try to make DX, they will fail. We won't get another DX out of it. We'll get a cheap knockoff.

What devs should do is use IW as an example of things going wrong, and try to avoid it. But they should try to reinvent DX. DX is a good example of a game done right, at least overall. Devs should use that, but also keep in mind other examples. They don't even need to take good games as examples. Some poorly done games had good elements that weren't the reason for them being bad.

IW had a bad physics engine. Still, it had more detailed simulation than original. That is a good thing. Devs need to make sure that the physics engine delivers. It should take into account angular momentum, and all sorts of momenta should be conserved.

Doom3 had great UI system. It is perfect for a DX game.

Plenty of RPG have proper solutions for inventory. Devs should take a look at some of these and see which one works. Perhaps, even run with several systems in parallel, and then see which one works better in some closed testing. Unlike some other aspects of the game, this would be easy enough to code to allow such parallel development without wasting time.

ewanlaing
2nd Sep 2008, 00:53
The game is about choices and the DX 1 an 2 inventories disallow us to carry everything even if we can carry a good amount of weapons, the bad thing on DX 2 is the fact I can carry more than 10 heavy weapons, in DX 1 we can only carry 3 at maximum or more light weapons, in DX 2 I don't feel the difference by carrying an heavy weapon or not, it's for that reason I hated it, for a sequel to DX propose an inventory more simple than SOF inventory it doesn't make any sense like many things in DX 2.




I understand what you're saying, and it's a good point, but I think you've touched on the point I was trying to make there. If players are given too much freedom, the whole point of choosing becomes meaningless. I'd rather the game had me choosing between another medkit or a box of ammo, rather than giving me the freedom to have both.

Obviously DX2's system was worse, but when I played DX 1 again recently I noticed that I was really carrying quite a lot of stuff. Eventually, once I got the dragon's tooth, the sniper rifle and the machine gun (with some mods) the inventory didn't matter any more, and I still had half the game to play.

If players were given less freedom with their inventory, I believe it would create a more interesting gameplay mechanic.



And K^2, you make a good point yourself! Though I wasn't defending IW's flaws, I was just trying to dispel the illusion many have that DX 1 got everything (or even most things) perfect.

I'm not trying to blame ION STORM, because at the time Deus Ex was incredible, but nowadays many of the game mechanics simply don't make much sense, and the developers should really take note of this.

If we end up with DX 1's inventory system then the system hasn't been improved in over 8 years. And it's clearly not a perfect system.

But the same logic can be applied to any part of the game I guess, and at the end of the day it's all down to opinion. I personally prefer the game to lean towards realism, rather than freedom.

K^2
2nd Sep 2008, 04:52
I personally prefer the game to lean towards realism, rather than freedom.
Realism is freedom. The only reason you feel constraint in real world is because certain actions are going to get you killed or otherwise disadvantaged. As long as you have these save/load buttons, this isn't a factor.

In a real life you have an option of hitting a guard over the head repeatedly with rotten herring while wearing drag. And while in real world you might not feel that it is an option due to reasonable consequences to your actions, the existence of the same consequences in a game won't stop you from trying such option.

At any rate, the point is that realism is opening options, not closing them. The above example is intentionally silly beyond reason. But how many times have you been able to find a new solution to a puzzle due to more realistic physics in the game? Now, think of what you could do with more realistic player-NPC interaction.

Blade_hunter
2nd Sep 2008, 13:01
realism isn't freedom, the freedom is the fact you can do somethings that you can't do in the reality, Carry an unlimited amount of items is freedom, have an inventory with limitations is realism even if sometimes it's not realistic, add constraints is most of times more difficult than don't add them.
some unrealistic things is limitation, like unbreakable things (walls, vehicles, doors, etc ...)
but most of times the realism is a constraint, (physics, weapon accuracy, etc). Sometimes some realism options are made for balance, like overheating for machine guns or automatic silenced weapons...
In DX we have a mean to pass large crates in tiny areas, but I don't want to go off topic.

About inventories I try to ask some questions about them later (this is about features management and other things linked with inventory

Romeo
2nd Sep 2008, 15:39
Ok, I'm going to try and explain my idea as best I can.

Guns tak up their own slots, limited to the outside of the body. These would be your quick-use weapons (On computer, 1,2,3 and four, on console, D-Pad Left, Right, Up and Down). Ammo too has a few slots of it's own. After this, the rest of the inventory is stored in a backpack, Diablo-style (managing the size of objects and whatnot). If that made no sense, you're on the right track. lol

Blade_hunter
2nd Sep 2008, 17:16
This is close to this, no ?

Universal inventory with separate spaces 1

-Slot based
-Can be upgraded by a strength skill
-Low to High precision
-Some items of the same genre can be pilled into one space and take and other space when the limit in the same space is reached
-Heavy items can take up to 12x more space than small items
-Large items can take up to 8x more space than small items
-Medium items can take up to 6x more space than small items
-Small items can take one to 6 squares (depends of the inventory precision)
-Tiny items can be pilled in several number or with a lower number but up to 4 squares or only 1 (depends of the inventory precision)
-All items are managed in different size spaces we have some spaces that allow to carry specific sized items

Romeo
2nd Sep 2008, 17:23
Somewhat, except I want guns to be outside the body. If I knew I was going to be attacked, I wouldn't store my weapons away, I want them on hand and ready. Same with clips. I don't want to be digging through a bag looking for the right one while shots fly by. I want it ready, and accessable. Besides, it's always a little cool to see your prized weapons dangling in holsters or slung over the back. Apart from that, yes, I do like your system. lol

Blade_hunter
2nd Sep 2008, 20:18
This system is a system close to an inventory system submitted by Chemix some weeks ago

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/4158/inventorywr4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It's a sort of medium sized inventory at level maximum we can carry at maximum 2 heavy weapons 1 only with the strength at its minimum level, this inventory is moderately precise instead of the DX inventory system

I put a little scheme with colors (that isn't a part of the inventory) to demonstrate the item size in comparison to the inventory

K^2
2nd Sep 2008, 21:44
Hunter, could you please elaborate on what the slant lines are meant to signify? I think I see what you mean by the ones on color diagram. They are meant to mark the diagonal of the NxM box that will keep the weapon, right? But what does the diagonal across the backpack mean?

And yeah, this is pretty much the kind of system that I was thinking of. In addition, I think that inventory keys should only be bound to things that aren't in the back pack. So something like 1) Pistol 1, 2) Pistol 2, 3) Rifle 1, 4) Rifle 2, 5) Belt item 1, 6) Belt item 2, etc.

In addition, maybe some of the smaller belt items should be stackable?

ewanlaing
2nd Sep 2008, 22:31
Ok, I'm going to try and explain my idea as best I can.

Guns tak up their own slots, limited to the outside of the body. These would be your quick-use weapons (On computer, 1,2,3 and four, on console, D-Pad Left, Right, Up and Down). Ammo too has a few slots of it's own. After this, the rest of the inventory is stored in a backpack, Diablo-style (managing the size of objects and whatnot). If that made no sense, you're on the right track. lol

I vote this!
Suits me fine.

DXeXodus
3rd Sep 2008, 04:41
Yeah, I quite like the idea of slinging weapons on 'quickslots' outside your body. You could have more weapons, I'm assuming, but you would need to place them in your inventory and allocate them to the quick slots as you see fit.

Romeo
3rd Sep 2008, 04:48
Precisely what I had meant.

gamer0004
3rd Sep 2008, 13:31
I like the backpack idea, and the quickslot idea, but if I want to carry only GEP guns this should be possible. You can carry a GEP gun plus two sub-machineguns, so why not 2 GEP guns?

Besides that, I may not have understood correctly, but according to this system the player can carry like 4 submachine guns and 4 GEP guns and like 12 pistols at the same time?
Yes I know players have to carry around ammo as well, but that is possible in this system. I'd like ammo to take up less space. Or a square per box of ammo, not just a couple of squares for 9mm. round whether you have 1 box or 10 of them.

Romeo
3rd Sep 2008, 19:21
If your referring to my idea, the slots on the outside of the body would be able to hold two large weapons (Slung on the back, with things like rifles, rocket launches, flamethrowers, etc...) and two small weapons (Holstered on the sides, with things like pistols, small SMGs and grenades). It's not realistic to have a character weilding four rocket launchers all over the body otherwise. :rasp:

ewanlaing
3rd Sep 2008, 23:06
A cool upshot would be all this stuff appearing on the player characters image during conversations and when you see your reflection.
Thief 3 did this well, though he only had a knife, a blackjack and a bow.

Blade_hunter
4th Sep 2008, 00:01
The diagonal across the backpack shows the full upgradeable surface by the strength skill each level provides an entire line and the little diagram shows the item size by a diagonal I separate some of them to avoid some confusions but the triangles represents the size of a kind of item in comparison of the inventory, some items can be pilled into one space, but we can't pile so much because this inventory have small squares compared to DX inventory, we can carry for example 5 grenades per squares

But for me I prefer an universal inventory or a 3 separate inventories, because it's more RPGish, but that's just my opinion

Romeo
4th Sep 2008, 05:19
A cool upshot would be all this stuff appearing on the player characters image during conversations and when you see your reflection.
Thief 3 did this well, though he only had a knife, a blackjack and a bow.
And during videos and in the pause screen, escpecially in the pause screen.

ewanlaing
4th Sep 2008, 13:51
Yeah! It'd be cool for player who think "ok, I'm the sniper guy. So there's my sniper rifle, my silenced pistol and my gas grenades on my suit." "Now I'm the heavy weapons guy. Two uzis, a GEP gun and a shotgun all there on the character".
It's make the game feel more personal.
You could maybe choose between a heavy weapon on you back and an inventory from the toolbelt, or replacing the heavy weapon with a backpack for more inventory space, but obviously at the sacrifice of heavy firepower.

Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

Tstorm
4th Sep 2008, 23:48
the 2nd deus ex inventory system almost made me commit suicide on the fact that it was dumbed down (thanks to consoles which I now crush because they ruined my favorite game). Make it like the first one to keep it more realistic.the fact that a piece of bread took over the same amount of room as a gep gun made me shoot myself in the foot.