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mad_red
24th Apr 2008, 04:46
What were the things that made you feel immersed into the gameworld, in the previous DX games?

Stuff like the newspapers and emails you could read, and listening in to convo's between other people (just like in half-life). Also the news bulletins that reported curfews, your activities, and put you up as a wanted man.

Or stealing money from a person's bank account after reading their mail (although it was over-used). And the way you could just take your best guess at the codes and passwords in the game.

The damage system and skill system was also really good and really influenced your abilities and options in a noticable way. Sometimes it would just be impossible to snipe all the soldiers or make a certain jump, and you'd just have to deal with the situation in another way.

And the tune that would play everytime you had an important or interesting convo, like with that AI entity - it would really make you forget about everything else and read the whole thing carefully. The music was really atmospheric.

Finally, DX 2 lacked most of those recognizable landmarks that were all over NY city in DX1. In DX1, it would always be dark outside, and the only people there were soldiers and sick desperate homeless people. Those two things combined really got me imagining the daily reality of the people who would have lived in such a situation.

So what are the things that made it a rich, immersive gameworld for you? The big impressive sites and all the warts and small details?

DXeXodus
24th Apr 2008, 07:45
There was so much that pulled me into this game. It is, as has been mentioned my most people on this forum, an unmatched gaming experience that few games even come close to IMO.

- I really liked reading about my activities in the game and seeing just how much the law hated me. Really gave you a sense of where you stand. It made you feel like a wanted criminal and it added to the overall sense of paranoia that runs through the game.

- The way that real world locations were interpreted into the game. Being able to recognise certain things really helped by adding to the immersion.

- THE CHARACTERS! man, this game has the best characters ever. One developed different relationships with them and really felt attached to them. If they died, it really struck home and you would sit and think.. "is there a way that could of been avoided?"

- The music, the storyline, the interface.... and everything else! It was not a perfect game, but IMO it is the closest thing to one so far.

Nathan2000
24th Apr 2008, 08:09
- The way that real world locations were interpreted into the game. Being able to recognise certain things really helped by adding to the immersion.

Also, the real world institutions. When the game suggests, that CDC, Trilateral Commision, CFR, etc. exist, there is no reason for other organizations not to exist as well. We just know, that the world is much bigger, than the game levels.

J.CDenton
24th Apr 2008, 09:07
Lot of things in fact:

-First the atmosphere: I love to death the design of Deus Ex 1. An everlasting night, neons everywhere, cold and dark colors. Creepy it was. It reminded me sometimes Escape from NEw York, Blade Runner and had also a very unique feeling inside.

-The fact that the world itself is changing. Of course there are news about your activities but not only about them. In some games the whole world seems to freeze once you start to play. This is not the case with DX: as you run through the game, events happen in the whole world, may you be responsible of them or not.

-The script involving conspiracy theories. The script reminded me the last episodes of the Millenium serie by Chris Carter: Franck Black the main protagonist must fight against a deadly virus who is about to be spread in USA. A secret society which he's working for, the Millenium society, have the cure but only keep it in a limited numbers to cure only its members. Which is the same case in the Deus Ex Script. Also the famous secret societies likle Templars, Illuminatis and the New World Order are really great.

-When you play Deus Ex you really feel at the very end of the game that the world's destiny depends of your act. You feel like every step you do has a consequence on humainkind. There's a real tension, rarely seen in actual games.

Fen
24th Apr 2008, 11:45
Giving time for the player to find his place in the world before the **** hits the fan.

In DX1, you do quite a lot of work for Unatco before you are thrown into any hectic storyline-based situation. Gave you the feeling that you were a part of unatco. And when you found out about the truth, it actually meant something.

Where as DX2, within 30 seconds of game time, they were already telling you that you had been betrayed by your company and that things werent the way they seemed etc.

mad_red
24th Apr 2008, 14:43
Also, the real world institutions. When the game suggests, that CDC, Trilateral Commision, CFR, etc. exist, there is no reason for other organizations not to exist as well. We just know, that the world is much bigger, than the game levels.

Yeah, I love the conspiracy theme. There's not so many of those kind of games in the first place, but the fact that DX takes familiar institutions and cults, and puts you in everyday locations - this really sets the game apart. And it's all kinda believable and plausible.

The newspapers were great. Much better than some bland backstory in the manual. And how about all those fake book excerpts? They always made me wonder if the character in the books had any relation to the Dentons. At the same time, I'd be so involved I would become hesitant about reading them, because I thought it would be unrealistic if JC would just sit down and read a book for a few minutes.

The characters were great too. I hung around a little too long after resigning in front of Manderley, it really shocked me that he started shooting at me, and for a few moments I couldn't bear fighting back. Also, the guys at Unatco were just guys, griping about how useless the tear gas is (so funny!), and looking up to you when you blow away the NSF.

PS: I also remember Millenium. Not all episodes were equally enchanting, but the atmosphere was excellent.

Blade_hunter
24th Apr 2008, 16:25
The universe of DX adds some immersion I loved the clubs, pubs, bars, the hotels, etc.... Here we saw some living society in the game.
The news papers, the books the datacubes adds some information and makes the game more immersive. The conversations are a major part of the immersion because we have the impression to see real persons talking about they're situation, they're work, or simply they're life.
I agree with you this things adds much to immersion. In DX series we have some interesting things and in my opinion we can expand this like to see some NPC's make something like cooking, like sleeping ....
In the first game the unconscious, sleeping NPC's are dead or looks like dead ...
But perhaps it's better at all, this makes the unconscious bodies acts like dead corpses... The only difference I found is on the MIB agents, when they are unconscious, they don't explode instead when they are dead they explode violently.

Vasarto
24th Apr 2008, 18:33
What were the things that made you feel immersed into the gameworld, in the previous DX games?

Stuff like the newspapers and emails you could read, and listening in to convo's between other people (just like in half-life). Also the news bulletins that reported curfews, your activities, and put you up as a wanted man.

Or stealing money from a person's bank account after reading their mail (although it was over-used). And the way you could just take your best guess at the codes and passwords in the game.

The damage system and skill system was also really good and really influenced your abilities and options in a noticable way. Sometimes it would just be impossible to snipe all the soldiers or make a certain jump, and you'd just have to deal with the situation in another way.

And the tune that would play everytime you had an important or interesting convo, like with that AI entity - it would really make you forget about everything else and read the whole thing carefully. The music was really atmospheric.

Finally, DX 2 lacked most of those recognizable landmarks that were all over NY city in DX1. In DX1, it would always be dark outside, and the only people there were soldiers and sick desperate homeless people. Those two things combined really got me imagining the daily reality of the people who would have lived in such a situation.

So what are the things that made it a rich, immersive gameworld for you? The big impressive sites and all the warts and small details?

For me it was the whole Unatco thing. Fighting terrorists and the futeristic feel. Than what really kept me going was the conspirocy thing the the illuminati. So basically the Augs/Story/and the games world like giving people drugs or taking them yourself or stealing things from peoples stores ect and the oodles of hidden places...I bet there are STILL places alot of us never found like...if your in ghost mode did you know there is a secret place in the tunnles where the van is in hong kong! you can't get to it unless your in ghost mode and pass through the floor but there is a bunch of water with a dead guy in it. The waterways hide many secrets as well.

rhalibus
24th Apr 2008, 22:25
The seemingly endless choices in how to solve a problem.

The expansive world with its enormous levels and abundance of characters.

gamer0004
25th Apr 2008, 08:55
you can't get to it unless your in ghost mode and pass through the floor but there is a bunch of water with a dead guy in it. The waterways hide many secrets as well.

This is probably the scientist with the karkarians? The one in the flooded highway tunnel? You can get there through a couple of air vents.

Gary_Savage
25th Apr 2008, 09:01
Yeah, I love the conspiracy theme. There's not so many of those kind of games in the first place, but the fact that DX takes familiar institutions and cults, and puts you in everyday locations - this really sets the game apart. And it's all kinda believable and plausible.

The newspapers were great. Much better than some bland backstory in the manual. And how about all those fake book excerpts?

Don't know what more I can add to that, except to say I agree. I really liked how Leo Gold mentioned real world organizations, some relevant facts, and tells a story of subversion of the general public by the elite in a way that enthralls the player right from the first mission. My conversation with Leo Gold was really educational, for me; not because of the way he tied the UN, the Trilateral Commission, etc. to the game's conspiracies, but because it was that conversation that made me Google up these organizations.

Apart from that, I really liked JC's aim wobbling, depending on his skill level, and the probable area of bullet impact going down with the increase gun skills. Sure, it may be unrealistic that a super-agent is untrained in the use of a pistol, but the effects of being untrained, trained, etc., were well portrayed. BTW, is it just me, or does anyone else think that crouching steadies JC's aim?

Tracer Tong
25th Apr 2008, 10:28
Giving time for the player to find his place in the world before the **** hits the fan.

In DX1, you do quite a lot of work for Unatco before you are thrown into any hectic storyline-based situation. Gave you the feeling that you were a part of unatco. And when you found out about the truth, it actually meant something.

Where as DX2, within 30 seconds of game time, they were already telling you that you had been betrayed by your company and that things werent the way they seemed etc.

This is VERY true and I must admit that it's one of the most important elements of the game. BUT, I kinda missed the option to stay and work with UNATCO, the 'bad' guys, and fulfill another ending after chasing your brother Paul, assassinating Tracer Tong (as there is no killswitch). That's because in reality there is no 'good' or 'bad'. I really wanted that option and it angers me even today. The game would've been PERFECT that way. It is one step before being fully PERFECT right now. Most chances are, that if I say Maggie Chow here people will have some negative connotation and always find something against this character (heck, even I hate her), but what if you could've forged an alliance with her?

That's what I want in DX3.

DXeXodus
25th Apr 2008, 11:38
I agree. I would be very happy if DX3 didnt take place before DX1 or after DX 2... But rather during DX1 where we can explore some alternatives or even just fill in the gaps from a different perspective. :thumbsup:

Asystole
28th Apr 2008, 10:29
Here's what made DX so immersive to me:

- The soundtrack. This is a big one. I think we can all agree one of DX1's greatest strengths was its fantastic music. If DX3's soundtrack is half as good I'm in heaven.

- As everyone's been saying- the newspapers, datacubes, books, emails, etc. The sheer amount of optional back story was amazing. (http://nuwen.net/dx.html) I hope DX3 keeps this. There was so much to read/do that wasn't required to finish the mission but gave information on the game world... amazing. It felt like a real living world that would keep going even if you didn't interact with it. This is one of the reasons I've played DX so many times - there's so much you miss the first few times around. Every time I played there was stuff that I discovered that made me go "Oh cool!". A newspaper somewhere, an NPC in a back alley, a hidden room, a computer with an email account... instead of feeling like the world was made just for the player, it felt like you were just passing through.

- The way the player interacted with the characters. DX1 had a fairly small amount of main characters but they were so detailed and we kept most of them for the whole game... a character dying felt like a real loss.

I could go on...

jcp28
28th Apr 2008, 20:52
There was so much that pulled me into this game. It is, as has been mentioned my most people on this forum, an unmatched gaming experience that few games even come close to IMO.

- I really liked reading about my activities in the game and seeing just how much the law hated me. Really gave you a sense of where you stand. It made you feel like a wanted criminal and it added to the overall sense of paranoia that runs through the game.

-r.

One of the problems with that was that this one terminal said you killed Anne Navarre and Joseph Manderley even if you didn't. That one little bit always irked me.

But I definitely think DX was more immersive. When you got to pick up **** like newspapers and DataCubes, it proves to suck you into the world more, and make the game an actual experience instead of just a "game"

I wouldn't mind if they made it harder to hack the terminals either. As long as you were more encouraged to prioritize what you wanted to do, rather than panick because you had 2 seconds remaining or some nonsense like that. It should still get slightly harder to hack non-public terminals as you go along though.

HouseOfPain
28th Apr 2008, 21:33
I would have to say that the Hells Kitchen level was the best; Simply because of the Detail. I loved the billboards! Saviorific smokes, House of Pain gentlemans club (where i got my username) and all those Forty ouncer ones, Drink more, think less XD.


(this is my first post here, i've been lurking for about a month ;D nice to meet you all)

jcp28
28th Apr 2008, 22:55
I've been lurking here for bout a day! :rasp: I merely google searched to look dor a sequel, and this is one of the sites I got.
I would have said more, but my time is limited because of school and other ****. Yeah, New York conveyed the feeling of a city down in the dumps. China was pretty cool too, except the acting sucked with most of the minor characters. There was a definite feeling of the criminal underworld there, if somewhat simiplistic, but there's only so much you can put into one game after all. Hell, you can even get robbed in a dark corner near the docks, if I remember correctly. Of course, I shot the idiot between the eyes sicne he was nothing but a cowardly, lying scumbag after all.

And why does that stupid shaking head show up every time
Oh, swearing. Well, I was trying to be mimimal already, but I get the idea.

minus0ne
29th Apr 2008, 02:15
One of the problems with that was that this one terminal said you killed Anne Navarre and Joseph Manderley even if you didn't. That one little bit always irked me.
That was quite obviously on purpose. MJ12 wanted to attribute as much violence/crimes to JCD as possible. The bulletins and media in the DX1 gameworld are practically propaganda (infused by MJ12). Nothing to be irked about :confused:

DXeXodus
29th Apr 2008, 05:16
The underwater lab was a great level for me as it had some great infiltration elements. And you felt so alone as you took the elevator down and then the mini-sub. And when you get out of the mini sub only to find everyone dead and all the stuff malfunctioning

Asystole
2nd May 2008, 15:35
Oh, and something I forgot to say in my last post- the fact that I actually had a sense of loyalty towards UNATCO and felt bad for joining the NSF is a testament to how immersive DX really is.

HouseOfPain
2nd May 2008, 19:54
Oh, and something I forgot to say in my last post- the fact that I actually had a sense of loyalty towards UNATCO and felt bad for joining the NSF is a testament to how immersive DX really is.

Yeah, I felt the same way, until I realized how CORRUPT UNATCO was, then I wanted revenge! Incredible immersion.:thumbsup:

Necros
11th May 2008, 15:41
This is VERY true and I must admit that it's one of the most important elements of the game. BUT, I kinda missed the option to stay and work with UNATCO, the 'bad' guys, and fulfill another ending after chasing your brother Paul, assassinating Tracer Tong (as there is no killswitch). That's because in reality there is no 'good' or 'bad'. I really wanted that option and it angers me even today. The game would've been PERFECT that way. It is one step before being fully PERFECT right now. Most chances are, that if I say Maggie Chow here people will have some negative connotation and always find something against this character (heck, even I hate her), but what if you could've forged an alliance with her?

That's what I want in DX3.
That's a somewhat valid point. You know, putting this incredibly complex game together this way was hard enough and took a long time, if they were to include that version too... I don't think that would've been good for the game -a lot of delays, less testing.

I think almost verything was mentioned before me, so I'll just add one more thing. I alse felt a loyalty towards UNATCO and did feel like I want to have revenge on them but not on everybody. I mean there were some good people too! I didn't want to hurt them. Same with the soldiers, they were only doing their job, so I always tried to just knock them out or tranq them. :) Of course with the MIB I wasn't so kind. http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9711/gonoszrh5.gif

mad_red
12th May 2008, 13:03
Just about any of the factions can either disgust you, as well as make you feel sympathetic.

The first playthrough, I gibbed NSF like the scum they were, oblivious to their story. Later, I was almost ready to switch sides, and then Navarre just blasts Lebedev away. The timing was excellent. Even though that really frustrated and angered me, it still took a while before I was willing to completely turn against Unatco. MJ-12 never had my sympathy though.

In a later playthrough I decided to take the "bloodless" path, killing no-one, using only stealth, a baton (the one in the Shifter mod, I think), gas and tranquilizer darts.
That was too hard sometimes; saving paul, some commandos, and exploding enemies like MIBs, Navarre and Hermann, etc.

The reason was that I hadn't played for a while, and I felt so sentimental playing the game and seeing all those people again, that I couldn't bring myself to kill my old buddies at UNATCO, nor the average Joe in NSF armor. It was also fun role-playing, so I even spared the MJ-12 regulars.

Remember the message about how the new nano agents will not obsolete the mech-augmented ones? That made me feel a little sorry for Navarre and Hermann, instead of being intimidated by them. They didn't scare me until I had to face them, and after I watched Navarre's body blow up in the subway, I thought: she's gone so soon already?!