PDA

View Full Version : Loadings



jordan_a
17th Apr 2008, 14:44
The trend is to display images along with advices or informations below, do you like it?
--------------------------------------------------------
Ideas submitted:
-Quotes from famous people like on Operation Flashpoint
-Toggle on/off texts in the settings menu
-Progress bar
-newspaper cuttings, propaganda

jordan_a
17th Apr 2008, 14:47
Voted 2. I absolutely hate noob and cheesy advices but I do like nice artworks. Informations about the world should be given in the course of the game, not on loading screens.

Gary_Savage
17th Apr 2008, 14:51
Voted Option 1:
Text on loading screens is great for strategy games, but a DX game needs to give players info in a manner that immerses him/her in the game world.

minus0ne
17th Apr 2008, 14:56
I'd like for this to be an option you could turn on and off. On the one hand it gives you something to do while your mediocre system, just barely capable of running DX3 is loading a huuuuuuuge map (here's hoping), on the other it might become boring after a while (especially if you keep seeing the same sentences).

I liked how this was done in Thief 3. There was some gameplay advice in the first couple of levels, but then it just became seemingly random gameworld-info (like children's rhymes which suggest the existence of a scary enemy you'll likely encounter at one point or another, or a pagan song). These things added to the atmosphere (also because of inventive use of language, Thief has all kinds of slang of its own), although unfortunately there were too little of these sentences, so after a while you kept seeing the same ones.

WindexChugger
17th Apr 2008, 15:03
Voted 3:

I prefer to get some interface advice. An example is in WorldOfWarcraft(yes, I was once an addict) it gave the hint that pressing num lock sets your character on auto-run. While i'm not saying that DX3 should have auto run, I think UI help would be a nice thing to have on a loading screen. Similar to world of warcraft, you should be able to turn off these "hints."

I agree with jordan_a that info on the story/world of Deus ex should not be given during loading screen.

c37579
17th Apr 2008, 15:17
voted option 1:
hopefully they will make the levels huge, but the loading times small, so it shouldnt matter whats on them, i personaly likes the deus ex loading screen, just simeple, it didnt really drag you out tof the game, all it was was it said loading, then that was it.

if there was going to be anything i would say an artwork image, but thats about it, aslong as there is an option for it (i think there should be options to turn everything on/off) it should be fine, everyone can put it how they like it then.

Aminevo
17th Apr 2008, 15:24
Maybe some interesting quotes from famous people... im not sure.

Red
17th Apr 2008, 15:38
Voted: 4. something interactive.

Actually I'd like to see Crystal Engine's "load once and never again" in action, like in Legacy of Kain, where levels were streamed and not divided into chunks with loading between them.

Blade_hunter
17th Apr 2008, 16:46
For me it depends of the levels size and the global loading time.
If we have huge levels we can use a sort of video sequence to show the travel for example.
If the levels are great and divided is some sub-levels a la DX 1, we can use a little video sequence to show the manner that your character enter to the sub-level or an artwork or the DX 1 system.
If we use DX 1 system I want to get short loadings if it's possible
It depends of technologies of the game.

gamer0004
17th Apr 2008, 16:48
I'd vote for a combination of option 1 and 2 if it was possible to choose that. If the loading takes some time (more than 4 seconds) I'd want artwork. If the loading takes less than 4 seconds I'd want the DX loading screen.

Tracer Tong
17th Apr 2008, 18:47
A progress bar (as in morrowind) is VERY important.

Larington
17th Apr 2008, 19:42
My favourite for loading screen quotes is Anachronox, each area would have joke comments that serve to give you a sense of the area you are entering whilst also giving you something to laugh over. Mind you, partly Anachronox is a quasi comedy with loads of little jokes scattered throughout so theres a reason it uses humour during the load screens.

Voltaire
17th Apr 2008, 20:11
I voted two, but I now realise it might be helpful to have hints available, toggled on/off in the settings menu.

I also like the real-life quotes idea; Total War (a killer RTS series if you get the chance to play it) has quotes from generals and philosophers on the load screens before and after battle scenarios.

DXeXodus
18th Apr 2008, 09:55
The most fun I ever had during a loading session was Call of Duty 4. Once off loading and while its loading you get briefed with a cool video / 3D info map etc. This to me was excellent and should be looked at for inspiration. I dont want a direct copy of this, but it is a good idea and makes loading times more fun.

jordan_a
18th Apr 2008, 10:14
Maybe some interesting quotes from famous people... im not sure.Like on Operation Flashpoint, good idea.

Blade_hunter
18th Apr 2008, 16:06
A progress bar (as in morrowind) is VERY important.
As morrowind or other games used this features :)
If the game doesn't use a video sequence at the same time as the loadings screens, this feature is interesting and must be added. I forget to speak about this :).

Tracer Tong
10th May 2008, 12:38
DX1 had famous quotes in the endgames

mad_red
10th May 2008, 16:07
First of all: Keep the loading screens few and far in between. Same ol' tune: Good = DX1. Bad = DX2.

As for the loading screens: how about some newspaper cuttings? Perhaps in the early level they could fill in some backstory in general, as well as more locale-specific recent history and news events.

Later in the game, they could start relating more to the indirect, macroscopic, and/or (projected) long-term consequences of your actions.

Then there's propaganda. Stuff like:
- Expanded police powers and arms keep the streets safe. (Also tells you about your opposition maybe).
- Individual / small enterprises give way to large corporations; it's progress! The future is globalization, and governments can keep tabs on few corporations more easily that legion of smaller enterprises. No more unions necessary!
- Seen suspicious activity? 'Tourists' photographing augmented officers? Neighbours stockpiling food and reading illegal books? Report it!
- Statistics: increase of electronic money transactions, GMC farming, etc.

Finally there's "secret" documents and/or stuff you might find in a mission briefing: aerial photographs of the area, intercepted internal memo's, designs on patrol bots, etc.


All the optional reading in DX1 could make for great loading screens.

Chemix
10th May 2008, 17:24
If it's going to take 20-50 secs (loading for a decent sized level shouldn't take more than 50 or at most 60 seconds in a well optimized game) then I'd like some sort of briefing, like CoD4, though on the second play through and save reloads it gets very repetitive. So after the first time through, you should get other info, like aforementioned newspaper clippings, net news, what have you, something to occupy time. DX's load screens were effective because the time was so short, any longer and it gets annoying with nothing there

jcp28
10th May 2008, 19:06
3 would be the best, but you should have the option to turn it off, since not everyone wants to play with hints that are often fairly common-sense more often than not.

jordan_a
28th Jul 2008, 14:40
DX3 should be entirely customized. From the loading screens to the interface and the difficulty. That's the key: to please every audience, us and the casual gamers.

Great ideas in this thread.

gh0s7
28th Jul 2008, 15:06
N.1 - because it worked with DX1. :D

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Jul 2008, 16:54
I voted option 1: Very conservative, simple and plain loading screen (as in DX1).
I would want there to be as little pause as possible during loading.

Having said that, the idea of using images, such as newspaper cut-outs or philosophical documents and quotations etc would be very acceptable...so long as they were each different and had a profound meaning, in relation to the game. :cool:

AaronJ
28th Jul 2008, 17:43
I liked getting tips like in IWar.

Freddo
29th Jul 2008, 05:08
I voted for "Image/artwork + information or advice". Of course there should be a loading progress bar too.

I don't really want advice, though, but rather information about the game world. How it is to live in a world like that and so on, and the history of the game world. Important events ans so on, that one also should be able to read about in the game more depth if one so pleases.

The newspaper idea by mad_red is nice too.

Loading stuff with no info is rather dull and boring. Especially so if the loading times are long (which they can be if playing on a console from a disc or if the computer doesn't have enough RAM so the swapfile is used). When I first played Deus Ex I had a computer that was below minimum requirements, and the loading times were usually above 2 minutes. On a computer today, they are less than 5 seconds, heh.

Also, if the game use loading screens with info on them, they should have a "press any key to continue" after the loading is done. Some years from now the loading will be very very fast, and not enough to read the stuff if there's no such thing.

Fen
29th Jul 2008, 09:45
I liked in DX how the loading screens did their best not to break the flow of the game. You jumped into a room, the screen went dark and got the word loading on it. And then you were in the room. Even though theres the delay of a loading screen, it transitions very smoothly.

If you get a loading screen with tips and artwork etc. it will break the immersion and flow of the game. Halflife 2 did a similar thing as well with loading written in the middle of the screen and the last thing you saw before the loading process as the background.

Tsumaru
29th Jul 2008, 12:40
Personally I don't understand anyone who could criticise or complain about there being more on the loading screen. As long as the entire loading process is optimised to be as fast as possible - nobody is forcing you to look at the images or read the text. If the hint is common sense, it doesn't harm you to be aware of it. The only problem would be if for some strange reason (which would like, never happen) the text somehow actually ruined the game by giving TOO much advice (yeah, right - it's not like you're gonna find a walkthrough in one sentence, that's for sure) or revealing information which should be discovered in-game (obviously, again, I'm sure the devs aren't that stupid). Really it just doesn't seem that it could be negative to me. =/
EDIT: Fen's criticism is a bit more valid, but I think the issue here is going to be loading times. DX was very quick (or at least for me it was). Games nowadays have to load so much more that they just CAN'T go that quickly. In an ideal world, yeah, the loading screen would just be black "Loading..." and last 5 seconds. But since I doubt it'll be like that, I'd rather look at something while waiting.

Personally I prefer to have some nice artwork or something (I'd prefer concept art to in-game shots though - Oblivion VS DX:IW - just because it's potentially something new to look at) and a little text at the bottom. I don't care if it's a hint for the game or some in-world info though really. After a while you've seen all of them anyway. But every time I still read them. Gives me something to do.

EDIT: Something else just occurred to me. I like progress bars. Nothing is more frustrating than having no idea when something will load. I remember playing BF2 online. You had the loading bar... and then the loading bar disappeared after it was finished and you had to wait just as long - if not longer - than the time the loading bar took. It was absurd. I would give up all the fancy images and cool text in the world for an accurate loading progress bar.

jcp28
29th Jul 2008, 15:55
^
That sounds like a personal preference. I never felt like I needed progress bars, because I always knew depending on the game, the amount of time it would likely take to load.

I think that doesn't matter though, as long as DX takes between 15-30 seconds to load. But if Eidos Montreal can't make it any quicker for whatever reason, they might as well go with a bar on the botttom.

Fen
29th Jul 2008, 16:24
If there was a loading bar, I would like it to move at a constant pace. I dont really see the point in those loading bars which stop at 20% and then after a little while jump to 70% or something. Loading bars should give some indication on how long the game is going to take to load.

Freddo
29th Jul 2008, 16:58
If there was a loading bar, I would like it to move at a constant pace. I dont really see the point in those loading bars which stop at 20% and then after a little while jump to 70% or something. Loading bars should give some indication on how long the game is going to take to load.
Agreed.

Chemix
29th Jul 2008, 17:01
The reason loading bars do what they do is that they aren't actually showing progress, they're showing the specific stage that the computer is going through to load the level. I've yet to see an accurate loading bar, but here's hoping. :thumbsup:

To do this, it might be possible through measuring the ammount of data total to be loaded, but calculations and rendering would still hold it up at some point.

Fen
29th Jul 2008, 17:50
The reason loading bars do what they do is that they aren't actually showing progress, they're showing the specific stage that the computer is going through to load the level. I've yet to see an accurate loading bar, but here's hoping. :thumbsup:


Yeah I know, but it still would be nice :)

Kevyne-Shandris
29th Jul 2008, 18:07
To do this, it might be possible through measuring the ammount of data total to be loaded, but calculations and rendering would still hold it up at some point.

Measure data input and put a percentage on it, similiar to the counters do in the performance logs in Windows XP (which can measure things like thoroughput from disks to I/O).

Don't like load bars, as it's nothing but a visual indicator. Counters like 1 of 100 (and if lucky, the name of the file) loading are much simplier, and will at least tell the user which file is hanging.

Which reminds a good topic for another thread...

Tsumaru
30th Jul 2008, 01:03
Well, I don't really care the system. But if the loading takes a significantly long enough time - I like some indication of where it's up to. But that's definitely just a personal preference of mine. And obviously if the whole thing only takes 5 seconds it's not gonna really be worth it (although I've seen that done in games anyway).

Demiurge
7th Aug 2008, 00:13
I like quotes, but they become a bit tiresome the 5000000000th time you see them, so artwork/advertising from the game world a la bioshock would be ok. "buy your transgenics from versalife":p

DarkStorm
7th Aug 2008, 04:46
My favourite for loading screen quotes is Anachronox, each area would have joke comments that serve to give you a sense of the area you are entering whilst also giving you something to laugh over. Mind you, partly Anachronox is a quasi comedy with loads of little jokes scattered throughout so theres a reason it uses humour during the load screens.
I was going to say that. In my opinion, an Anachronox-like screen would be awesome.

Tsumaru
7th Aug 2008, 12:34
I dunno if jokes and humour are appropriate for Deus Ex.

jordan_a
7th Aug 2008, 13:37
I think it is. Why so serious? ;)

Tsumaru
7th Aug 2008, 23:33
Do I have to answer that?

jordan_a
8th Aug 2008, 00:06
I'm just hoping there will be humour. It's just a video game, you need to convey some fun to the players.

Tsumaru
8th Aug 2008, 00:27
Deus Ex, or at least the first, is clearly meant to be a dark, serious game. It's got a very film noir feel to it. Frequent jokes in the form of anything other than a style akin to JC's dry wit would just be completely out of place. Especially if they are regularly tossed in at every loading screen which just completely breaks up the atmosphere of the game.

Jerion
8th Aug 2008, 01:24
Personally I would rather avoid loading screens alltogether and just have the maps be streamed, instead of loading different areas in large chunks.

jordan_a
8th Aug 2008, 01:26
Frankly I don't mind a few quick loadings if it relieves the engine a little bit.

Tsumaru
8th Aug 2008, 02:05
I'm not an expert on these things, but won't streams potentially cause jerkiness and stuff on less capable computers? I prefer the loading screens, as long as they aren't too frequent or exceedingly long. DX1 was very good - although we have to realise that newer games obviously have a lot more to load.

Igoe
8th Aug 2008, 02:19
I vote for artwork, but with the OPTION (a simple checkbox with show tips on load screen) for text

My catch is I'd like the text to actually be like the Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines loads, which gives you BACKSTORY you won't hear anywhere else, instead of tips on "LOL DID U KNOW U NEED NRGY TO AUG STUF?"

Eventually you'll have read all the tips and it will be a sisyphean bore fest.

I mean stuff like "In 2012 Such and such a company did this and this happened and people died"

Info on the NSF back in the day, or what our favorite biotech firms have been up to. Something to provide a better, richer immersion without cramming in more dialog or wasting time recording voices.

And, as I said before, theres always the option to just simply turn it off once you've read it all.

teknikal-vision
8th Aug 2008, 05:32
Ok, my choice would be something that doesn't break up the play experience like what Valve does with it's Half-Life load screens; a simple "loading" text over a still of the last rendered frame of gameplay right before the load began. and maybe a TINY loading bar just to let us know where it's at

yeah I'm not a fan of the random works of art loadscreen with a loading bar at the bottom or anything like that. it breaks up the pace of the game and ruins the immersion; those load screens are annoying like commercials breaking up the pace of a good movie or show on TV.

less is more effective. keep it clean and simple

Fen
8th Aug 2008, 17:26
Also as this game ages, and computer speeds increase, you dont really want a big loading screen when all you need is a second to load the next scene.

On my computer currently, the loading text on deus ex shows up for about 0.5 seconds before im in the next scene. It feels like my computer just skipped a few frames rather than went through a loading process.

When I play Invisible War, my computer will minimise the game, load the loading screen (takes about 1 second). Load the next area (2 seconds), then minimises the loading screen and restores the game (another second). So while its only a 4 second job, it feels like I spent half of the loading process loading the actual loading process.

Jerion
8th Aug 2008, 20:33
I'm not an expert on these things, but won't streams potentially cause jerkiness and stuff on less capable computers? I prefer the loading screens, as long as they aren't too frequent or exceedingly long. DX1 was very good - although we have to realise that newer games obviously have a lot more to load.

If the engine's sight path system is optimized enough (think only rendering those surfaces that are facing towards you), then even on slower computers, it wouldn't have much, if any jerkiness. I'm not sure how the crystal dynamics engine does it, but I know that if everything is optimized, the only slowdowns would come from graphics settings being turned up too high.