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View Full Version : What do you think eidos is planning with the LOK series?



Sparkus816
10th Apr 2008, 00:04
JUst thought you might like to vent.

The DarkOne
10th Apr 2008, 14:06
I believe Eidos were planning to release a LoK 6 after Deus Ex 3 but it got scrapped off with the rest of the games that got scrapped the last couple of months

Lore Keeper
10th Apr 2008, 20:27
I think they're looking to make it happen, but, like any game producer, they have to figure out a way for it to make money first, to please the stockholders. Stupid stockholders! Look how you complicate lives! You make me sad panda!!! :rasp:

FearGhoul
10th Apr 2008, 22:29
I really have to say that this series is probably dead.

Raziel'sRevenge
11th Apr 2008, 01:22
*sigh* I say it'll get made when it gets made and we have to wait and hope until then. You can help by signing the petition (located in my signature) or sending letters to the following address:

Crystal Dynamics
Attention: Chris Bruno OR Legacy of Kain Series Team
1300 Seaport Blvd. Suite 100
Redwood City, Ca
94063-5538

Snail-mail gets more interest than e-mail though.

rross46
13th Apr 2008, 19:17
It will remain dead for a long time, probably forever sadly. The company needs to make money and LoK wasn't doing the business they had hoped. IT is sad but that is how it goes.

dumah's wraith
18th Apr 2008, 20:08
Probably nothing

The_Hylden
18th Apr 2008, 21:19
Two executives and Eidos in general wouldn't be bringing up LoK in interviews saying that it's one of their strong series and they're looking forward to making another, if it were dead...

Omega
19th Apr 2008, 08:33
Two executives and Eidos in general wouldn't be bringing up LoK in interviews saying that it's one of their strong series and they're looking forward to making another, if it were dead...

"The first, bitter taste of that terrible illusion - hope."

Sayid
19th Apr 2008, 11:52
I thknk they are too busy watching LOST and figuring out ways of turning Kain more into a Sayid

TheWatcher
23rd Apr 2008, 03:30
Given the inability of the games in the series to be profitable, I imagine (I hope, at least) there are those within Eidos pursuing the movie avenue with the hope that a scriptwriter could put an ending to the series. I mean, everything is getting made into a movie these days. Someone somewhere will eventually stumble upon the story and insist on making it.

I know this is an old, old topic but in today's cinematic environment, it's more likely than ever.

dumah's wraith
25th Apr 2008, 21:30
I thknk they are too busy watching LOST and figuring out ways of turning Kain more into a Sayid

Lost is getting really annoying...too random and nothing is ever resolved. You have to at least answer some questions.

FearGhoul
25th Apr 2008, 23:44
Heh, did you see what Sosa said about it at 8-bit theater? I've never seen the show (all I know is that people are on some island, there's some evil boogey man thing, and Mira Furlan is on it), but what Sosa was saying sort of reminds me of what people have said about Twin Peaks (another show I've never seen).

Sayid
26th Apr 2008, 13:53
Lost is getting really annoying...too random and nothing is ever resolved. You have to at least answer some questions.
I'm sorry to hear you're disappointed at Lost. Although I must point out that NOTHING is random on LOST, the creators have everything under control since they have always known the main elements of the story from the very beginning. If you watched episode 9 on Thursday... you probably think quite different now

TheWatcher
30th Apr 2008, 03:02
Just saw this thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=76711) over at ECC. It doesn't bode well for LoK. Now that Warner Brothers has a controlling stake in SCi and Eidos' North American distributorship, it seems it's going to be the Tomb Raider/Hitman show from now on.

"...laying off 25% of its staff and killing fourteen projects". Why does it feel like LoK was in that group? :(

dumah's wraith
4th May 2008, 20:51
I'm sorry to hear you're disappointed at Lost. Although I must point out that NOTHING is random on LOST, the creators have everything under control since they have always known the main elements of the story from the very beginning. If you watched episode 9 on Thursday... you probably think quite different now

Why? What happened?

Sayid
6th May 2008, 01:47
Why? What happened?
can't tell you, too many spoilers

dumah's wraith
9th May 2008, 18:52
can't tell you, too many spoilers

I don't care, just want to know if there's ay point in staying watching. Last one I saw was when
Claire disappeared. Is what you're talking about after that?

Sayid
10th May 2008, 02:49
well, you are kindda following the show, I thought you had stoppped watching like last season. then it's hard to understand how can you say things are random.

mort
22nd May 2008, 11:22
"The first, bitter taste of that terrible illusion - hope."

you win pie for that! lol

Moebius
23rd May 2008, 18:27
you win pie for that! lol

I concur! Give the man a pie. :D :D

FearGhoul
24th May 2008, 00:47
"Lo Bob. You like pie?"

ammon
24th May 2008, 11:47
*jumps in* i don't care what eidos/Crystal dynamics are planing, just so long as they hurry up!!! :p :D
....this is off-topic (i couldn't find the thread i wanted) but this might sound cruel of me, but in one topic we were discussing replacement voice-actors for tony - and my new one is, what about Brian Blessed? somethings he says kindda sounds like tony :scratch: (it's funny, i was watching lok bloopers on YouTube and i came across a vid of tony when he voiced in Disney's Hunchback of Notredame (?), and i didn't even know he could sing!!!!! (and i had seen it when it originally came out to rent, but i don't remember that bit ;) )

what about...if eidos/CD don't feel like making a new lok; why don't they re-release the previous ones of how they were originally planned?
because i am dying to see what it would have been like to fight the Priestess and explore 'The Undercity', and BO2's levels that were cut - basically i just want to play everthing that was cut or deleted from the series (that our PC siblings can slightly accsess; i'm jeolous) :lol:
*chucks self out*

fneh
26th May 2008, 20:58
i'd just like an official announcement as to if they're going to make any more or not so we have closure and the speculation can end

NoobSaibot
29th May 2008, 02:34
don't expect any closure, unfortunately

rross46
31st May 2008, 13:45
Closure would be good, but at the same time a lack of it can be seen as a good sign, if they cannot commit it to death then it means there is a chance it will come back, which is better than a flat out "No more LoK".

Linikratyo
20th Aug 2008, 17:43
well, I thought the LoK 6 project was gone for another year since they made a new part of Deus Ex which would otherwise probably been LoK 6......... :mad2:

The only thing we can hope for is that Tomb Raider will go bad in business and that they start making other games............ :scratch:

TempySmurf
21st Aug 2008, 12:55
LOK 6? I thought Defiance wrapped everything up into a nice finale. Sometimes you just gotta know when to end things. You remember Happy Days, right?

Linikratyo
21st Aug 2008, 13:08
The Legacy ends when Balance is restored to Nosgoth......

The end of Raziel doesn't mean the end of the series......... :D

TempySmurf
21st Aug 2008, 13:57
That's a big assumption on your part. We're dealing with an anti-hero here. It's not about a happy ending, it's about the self discovery. He came to grips with all those internal conflicts and it ended with a wiser and emotionally stronger Kain. He's got it all figured out, there's no need to see it. They never show how the princess lived happily ever after with the prince, it's just unneeded filler.

Linikratyo
21st Aug 2008, 16:14
The Destiny of the Scion of Balance (Kain) is to restore balance to Nosgoth, he did not do this in BO1 so he needed the "third edge of the coin" to use Raziel and complete his destiny...........

I hope you understand it..... It isn't very clear I think, but I assume that the Hylden can make a good explanation...... :D


We're dealing with an anti-hero here.

He was always more a gray character (which I like very much about LoK) and he was corrupted by Nupraptor's poison, but he was cleansed by the spirit reaver at the end of Defiance, so he will not be corrupted in the next game.....

TempySmurf
21st Aug 2008, 23:12
We all know that, which is why we don't need to see it. We know he's going to restore the pillars, but there's nothing left that's interesting. All of the story arches have been neatly tidied up. He's complete and he walks off into the sunset to go restore those damned pillars.

Nosgothian
22nd Aug 2008, 00:57
Hello people

Good to see lok Fans still having faith but I feel the series is dead. I actually felt the game got worse with every installment, the only reason I still got it was the story like most people I guess. The game had potential to be up there with the rest but HEY THATS LIFE!

The_Hylden
22nd Aug 2008, 12:27
I thought Defiance wrapped everything up into a nice finale.

Nothing's "wrapped up." All Kain found out finally was who the "prime mover" is.


We all know that, which is why we don't need to see it. We know he's going to restore the pillars, but there's nothing left that's interesting. All of the story arches have been neatly tidied up. He's complete and he walks off into the sunset to go restore those damned pillars.

Given that his only way to change anything was in Raziel not being in that sword, as time is immutable for Kain since he isn't possessing free will to just do whatever it is he wishes, then we have utterly no idea right now, nor did he at the end of Defiance, just how he's to restore anything. Nor do we know how he can truly defeat his enemies. Nor do we know his final fate, whether he must sacrifice himself finally at the end once all is restored, or what. Kain's arc is nowhere near finished, as his solid arc has always been heading toward fixing what it was he was manipulated into setting asunder. The stage was clearly set at the end of Defiance for the grand finale to come. Kain stands there, solemn, but with that bitter taste of hope Raziel left him with. He stands there knowing that this is the ultimate gift his vampire son left him in the end, along with being healed of Nupraptor's corruption and having the sword that can hurt his main adversary, and Nosgoth's. But, the hope is a bitter taste for many reasons. A, it goes against Kain's own knowledge of his bound self to fate. B, he has no idea probably what the next move is, so it's knowing that there is a small chance for a better outcome, but being utterly powerless to know how to get there. C, he once again must do this alone. I think he truly wanted to restore Raziel’s destiny to something greater, somehow, and to have him accompany Kain in this quest. Kain is always alone. The one moment of BO2 that rings true through this, when he had to put down Umah for her actions. However, she left him alone... All of the humans who betrayed, or used him in BO1, Kain's always been utterly alone. So, anyway, there's much more to Kain's story here and it's that which the LoK community wants to see and deserves to see happen.

Please do not presume to insult us saying that it's over and to let it rest. Happy Days? Please. You're comparing a series that's meant to have an ending for its main character, which it still needs, to a sitcom that has no continuation for each episode except the characters. This is like Lord of the Rings without us seeing if Frodo and Sam were rescued out of Mordor in the end, or seeing if he actually can destroy the ring inside of Mordor. If you can be fine without that and still enjoy the LotR movies, stopping them just short of that ending, then you're a strange being, in my opinion. Or, better yet, Star Wars. Would you either be happy to know if Luke and the rest knew of how to destroy the Death Star, but never actually are shown going about doing it? End the movie here, folks, sorry… Or, in Return of the Jedi, we never see Luke and Darth face each other, never see Darth decide to help his son and destroy the Emperor. Can you imagine either film without their actual endings? I should hope not…

TempySmurf
22nd Aug 2008, 12:57
LOTR had like 20 endings too many. There's like 3 more potential movies after Return of the Jedi, but you don't seem to be upset that you're missing 3 more stories.

Kain defeated all of his enemies, to see him go and fight them again would be boring. The only one Kain has to challenge is himself, and that's just not game worthy. Sometimes it's the journey not where you're going that matters.

Linikratyo
22nd Aug 2008, 13:29
well I read an interview with Jen Fernádez, Richard Lemarchand & Kyle Mannerberg...... here (http://www.thelostworlds.net/Defiance/Question_and_Answer_with_Jen,_Richard,_and_Kyle.html)

They gave clues that there are many things of the hylden that aren't showed yet..... it seems that they have a special way of looking into the timestream, that there is more behind the seer and the fact of Ariel being in the spirit forge..... :eek:

It seems they want to cover this in a future LoK...... :D

The_Hylden
22nd Aug 2008, 17:12
I can see this conversation is pointless...

However, onto the blatantly false points:


LOTR had like 20 endings too many.

The conclusion that matters, however, is the ring being destroyed and Saron following that, and then Frodo and Sam being rescued. Without that, people would be ticked. No resolution...


There's like 3 more potential movies after Return of the Jedi, but you don't seem to be upset that you're missing 3 more stories.

There were only the 6 episodes in the series Lucas drafted up, of which, he originally decided to start in the middle, since he didn't think the others would go over as well, nor was he counting on a sequel. Then, he continued the next two. What writers of the novel series have continued afterward is seen now as canon, yet it really isn't, due to the fact that they weren't part of Lucas' original story. Star Wars, as he's gone one record to say, was always Darth Vader's story. That's the story that's most important and that one was completed to the end, literally, As Vader had to die to do so.


Kain defeated all of his enemies

His enemy is the EG, who's very much still alive. That little skirmish at the end of Defiance only buried part of it, which isn't much of a defeat at all. Still, throughout time, the EG is in control and alive to consume souls and spin its wheel while Nosgoth suffers. Kain hasn't defeated the EG, nor righted the plight of Nosgoth. Therefore, his mission remains woefully incomplete, as is ours watching him as a viewer.

Vampmaster
22nd Aug 2008, 21:05
Bottling up his problems for a later date is not solving them. The hylden have lingered in the demon dimension long enough. It's time they made the choice whether to earn their redemption or accept their destruction. And killing the EG was pretty much Raziel's last request. It's what Raziel is for.

Linikratyo
22nd Aug 2008, 21:26
Bottling up his problems for a later date is not solving them. The hylden have lingered in the demon dimension long enough. It's time they made the choice whether to earn their redemption or accept their destruction. And killing the EG was pretty much Raziel's last request. It's what Raziel is for.

who says the Hylden need to redeem theirselves??? The vampires made the mistake of beginning the wars and the hylden are therefor banished? :scratch: I think the vampires also made mistakes and everyone should pay for their crimes.... ****

Let's hope CD makes the right decision.............. :whistle:

swordsicle
23rd Aug 2008, 03:27
If I'm not mistaken, I believe the Ancients were cursed by the Hylden before they were banished. This is what turned the Ancients into vampires, and turn on the humans. I don't know if the EG was involved with the Hylden, but I believe the Ancients worshipped the EG at one time.

I don't think the vampires are at fault, but that the EG manipulated the situation, and is the only one that needs to pay for any crimes.

Sure, the vampires only gave into their lusts for blood, but at this point, Kain is the only one that remains, so the vampires have already payed with their lives.

The Hylden still exist in the deamon realm and can possibly breach their prison and attempt to take over Nosgoth once again.

The EG is still manipulating the situation, and hopefully, with his destruction, Kain can finally restore Nosgoth, and seal away the Hylden forever.

Linikratyo
23rd Aug 2008, 08:27
but if this would become the ending, then that would be predictable and I think we should CD handle this problem......... :D

TempySmurf
24th Aug 2008, 02:13
Raziel doesn't want to kill himself.

Vampmaster
24th Aug 2008, 09:09
Raziel doesn't want to kill himself.

He does if it's the only way to avoid becoming Squiddy's eternal slave. Which is why he already killed himself in Defiance. Also one of the first things Raziel said after becoming a wraith was that he'd choose oblivion over that existance.


who says the Hylden need to redeem theirselves??? The vampires made the mistake of beginning the wars and the hylden are therefor banished? :scratch: I think the vampires also made mistakes and everyone should pay for their crimes.... ****

Let's hope CD makes the right decision.............. :whistle:

When I said about the hylden redeeming themselves, I meant for what they've done since the start of BO1. Arranging the destruction of the pillars they played a huge part in Nosgoths damnation and when they did get out they decide to wipe out all non-hylden life in Nosgoth. However they deserve a shot at redemption since it was the vampires who started the wars and banished the hylden in the first place and there are some hylden such as the builder and the Seer who do want to see Nosgoth restored.

VendavalEste
24th Aug 2008, 10:00
I was going to ask this in a separate thread but instead I'll ask it here.

After reading the summary of Defiance on Dark-Chronicle.co.uk, I craved a sequel to finish the series.

But I forgot what happened exactly, all I know is that Raziel is in the blade and doesn't wish to serve the Elder God, so what's left? Does Kain go back in time to SR1's era and let Raziel kill him? But I'm sure that contradicts what I just said about Raziel (another one) not wanting to serve the Elder God, unless the latter frees him once he's destroyed all the vampires.

This series is so confusing...

fneh
24th Aug 2008, 11:41
Am I the only ones that think the hylden are the good guys?!?!


the vampires banished the hylden for being RIGHT about squiddy being a false god

the vampires banished them for not believing in their false god

the vampires made the pillars that bound the life of nosgoth to them!


the VAMPIRES were a load of bible bashing lunatics that damned those that didn't follow their faith.


name one thing the hylden actually did wrong!

TempySmurf
24th Aug 2008, 14:19
He can't be a slave to himself.

The_Hylden
24th Aug 2008, 14:45
What's that supposed to mean? He's not the EG.

Vampmaster is right. He's hated his existance since he first woke in the Abyss, and hasn't enjoyed it any more since then. His sacrifice was a release.


name one thing the hylden actually did wrong!

Using The Mass to try and wipe out all life except their own in Meridian was pretty bad. No-one's purely good or bad in this series, but certainly the vampires have done their fare share of bad, for which they, and Nosgoth, have paid dearly for it. And I agree, the vampires started this all and deserve the blame for what the Hylden later cause. The real bad guy, of course, is the EG. It manipulated the vampires to do this; they stupidly followed.

fneh
24th Aug 2008, 16:52
but the hylden seen in blood omen 2 were mentally messed up from being in the demon dimension. they were demented from centuries in there. Before their imprisonment, they did nothing wrong.


and the vampires doing their fair share of bad??? bit of an understatement really.


did the hylden curse ancients with vampirism because of banishing them or was it the other way around? i can't remember.


Has anyone noticed that "evolved" vampires look so much more like the hylden? like kain now looks like a hybred of all 3 (inc humes being that he once was one)?

TempySmurf
24th Aug 2008, 17:49
Kain killed himself in BO2

Linikratyo
24th Aug 2008, 18:04
Am I the only ones that think the hylden are the good guys?!?!


the vampires banished the hylden for being RIGHT about squiddy being a false god

the vampires banished them for not believing in their false god

the vampires made the pillars that bound the life of nosgoth to them!


the VAMPIRES were a load of bible bashing lunatics that damned those that didn't follow their faith.


name one thing the hylden actually did wrong!

That's what I mean!! :D


Vampmaster is right. He's hated his existance since he first woke in the Abyss, and hasn't enjoyed it any more since then. His sacrifice was a release.

He hasn't laughed once in the series you know........ :eek:


Kain killed himself in BO2

What?? He lied in coma for 200 years, because he was defeated, but he never was killed and he didn't comit suicide either........... :confused:

TempySmurf
24th Aug 2008, 18:31
and in BO1... figure that out.

Linikratyo
24th Aug 2008, 19:01
yeah, in BO1 he is killed as a human, but never as a vampire. I mean he is never killed in BO2. :D

TempySmurf
24th Aug 2008, 19:07
Sorry, BO1 twice!

Linikratyo
24th Aug 2008, 19:15
No he didn't, when he was human he was killed and if embraced the sacrifice, but he didn't do this as the other parts of the series confirm.

dumah's wraith
24th Aug 2008, 19:30
did the hylden curse ancients with vampirism because of banishing them or was it the other way around? i can't remember.

"Janos: By what right did you lay on us the curse (etc, etc)

Sarafan Lord: It was justice! For our banishment from the world!"

So they were banished first. I always assumed that the Mass would only kill all the vampires. Its channel is the glyphs. And who does glyph energy hurt? The vampires, and only the vampires-if you throw a human at a Ward Gate, it makes no impact. The Hylden are perfectly justified in that-it's no worse than what the vampires tried to do to them.

Linikratyo
24th Aug 2008, 19:37
no, glyphs don't hurt vampires. Glyphs power ward gates which hurt vampires............ The mass would send telepatical waves through a network (the glyph system in Meridian) which would crush the mind of every creature except for Hylden....

TempySmurf
24th Aug 2008, 19:37
Have you even ever played BO1? It's not like it's subtle or anything.

Linikratyo
24th Aug 2008, 19:55
I've played the whole Legacy of Kain from 2 to 6 times completly, without counting lose parts I like to play. :rasp: I'm now busy with Defiance now that I have played the other 4 again. :cool:

The sacrifice was at the beginning of Blood Omen your choise, but when SR1 came out it was the Refuse the sacrifice to be the true ending......

If you think you know when Kain is killed then tell......... :whistle:

fneh
24th Aug 2008, 19:56
so.... lemme get this straight.... the hylden came back in bo2 and made life better for the people of nosgoth..

the ancients constructed magical pillars that bound their lives to the land...


so nosgoth is suffering because of the ancients.....

Does squiddy even really come into it? he needs nosgoth to be healthy to survive right? he's a parasite that needs fresh souls. I'm wondering if hylden souls would be bad for him and that's why he needs human ones? i mean squiddy doesn't care that humans don't worship him... he's still happy to eat their souls.

I'm assuming the pillars were squiddy's idea and the ancients blindly did all this for him though. Surely Squiddy needs the hylden out of the picture for a reason. they weren't immortal were they?

i really do think that another game needs to be made with the protagonist being a hylden.


also, did the hylden curse vampires with vampirism AND the dark gifts? we see humans with abilities on par with kain's in BO1 (the pillar guardians and malek) and magic and the likes is pretty common in nosgoth. it's just the humans seem too primative overall to widely use it. Why curse the ancients with all the powers of a vampire instead of just the bloodlust and immortality??

Linikratyo
24th Aug 2008, 20:02
The vampires probably evolved these powers after they were cursed. The dark gifts were probably side effects....

The_Hylden
24th Aug 2008, 21:18
I think TempySmurf is literally posting just to be obnoxious. He's not made sense in the last like five posts. Best ignore it.


So they were banished first. I always assumed that the Mass would only kill all the vampires. Its channel is the glyphs. And who does glyph energy hurt? The vampires, and only the vampires-if you throw a human at a Ward Gate, it makes no impact. The Hylden are perfectly justified in that-it's no worse than what the vampires tried to do to them.

The Builder tells you everything you need to know about the Device and what they planned for it. They planned to use it before they were banished to not only end the war, but also destroy all other life:


Yes, yes. The Device. The Device was built as a weapon aeons ago when two races warred with each other for dominance of Nosgoth. It houses an ancient creature, whose very mind is capable of killing any living thing with but a thought.
The Device was to channel the mental energy of this creature, and direct it onto Nosgoth. It would attune the creature's mind to kill all living creatures except for my race. Before it could be completed, however, I was imprisoned here, and the rest of my race was banished to another, far more terrible realm.

He further states what the Glyph conduits were for in use with it with this statement:


It was dubbed 'The Mass'. It is eternal and deadly, yet harmless without a channel for its mind. But we never completed the weapon. We needed a way to send its energy out of the Device and into the land itself. We needed a conduit throughout the cities - a network, if you will. Once this network was created, the Device would channel the mental energy of the Mass, and send death upon our enemies.

Even though the Glyph energy is lethal to vampires, specifically, it's power is more useful as the power network that the Mass' mind could link over and spread its deadly destruction to not only vampires, but all life, like the Hylden apparently originally intended. If you believe The Builder, and we have no reason to doubt him.

Sorry to burst your bubble about them, Fneh, but they weren't without their faults even before they were banished. You hear in that game also that the Humans within the city were descendants from that era and were originally, now again, slaves of the Hylden. While Dark Chronicle doesn't have it in its script, because it's not from a cut-scene, I guess, in-game you come upon a human slave pleading for his life and a Hylden scientist class telling him:

"When you were nothing but hairy apes, we took you from your caves and gave you all that your civilization has. Now, we take it away." It might not be word for word, but it’s close. He then promptly kills the man. Also, if you listen throughout the game to the peasants and such, most aren't happy in their existence under the Sarafan Lord. They live in squaller, except for the nobles, and rampant corruption and crime run amuck from the Sarafan order down. As crappy as existence was before they came to be, with the Glyph power and all, it's even worse now, and the Sarafan Lord is only "giving" them that power in order to use them, and eventually kill them all.

So, yeah, again, neither race is without its faults. It's hard to say that the Hylden aren't slightly justified in coming up with their ultimate weapons to end the thousands of years of war and strife both races suffered, nor the Ancients trying to ban them all, given that both civilizations had to have grown so weary of war. However, obviously, they both went too far to end it.

TempySmurf
24th Aug 2008, 22:07
Moebius: And from ages yet to come...

[Moebius summons forth a future version of Kain, which falls to the Soul Reaver.]

fneh
24th Aug 2008, 22:44
XD thanks for that the hylden.

tho that comment about killing the hairy ape! i LOVE that!!!


also, is it safe to assume that the mass is/part of squiddy? that'd explain why he wanted the hylden banished to another dimension if they were taking advantage of him like that

Vampmaster
24th Aug 2008, 23:47
Moebius: And from ages yet to come...

[Moebius summons forth a future version of Kain, which falls to the Soul Reaver.]

Ah, yes, that... Moebius always was good at messing with peoples heads. Even if you count that as a suicide, the first time Kain dies was an assassination, not a suicide and the part at the end was an alternate ending that never actually happened.


"When you were nothing but hairy apes, we took you from your caves and gave you all that your civilization has. Now, we take it away."

I think it was actually "hair-less apes" in the game. lol

TempySmurf
25th Aug 2008, 00:28
You're trying to hard. In BO1, Kain dies once in the beginning. Kain dies a second time to himself. Kain dies a third time, but we won't count the alternate ending. So just twice. TWICE!


Thanks.

The_Hylden
25th Aug 2008, 01:00
also, is it safe to assume that the mass is/part of squiddy? that'd explain why he wanted the hylden banished to another dimension if they were taking advantage of him like that

The Mass, from what we have seen in BO2, was a stand-alone being that hovered over a pit down below. It didn't continue out of the walls, or that pit of goo, so it seems it was just that thing. It might have been related to the EG, maybe even something that was either an ally to, or even the first opposition to, the EG originally. That is what I wonder, at least.

And as Vampmaster stated:


I think it was actually "hair-less apes" in the game. lol

Haha, I am sure you're right. I was trying to remember the line, but that's definitely it.




You're trying to hard. In BO1, Kain dies once in the beginning. Kain dies a second time to himself. Kain dies a third time, but we won't count the alternate ending. So just twice. TWICE!

Kain never kills himself, as we've said. He doesn't die to himself, or something poetic. He simply gets disillusioned to the ones trying to manipulate him. Namely, Ariel, the humans he fights with, and Moebius. Humanity is what he loses faith in, what little he had already. He doesn't die inside because of it, though, simply becomes resolute to a position on things. And no, Linikratyo, the image of Kain brought back from the supposed future was another one of Moebius' illusions, like his own visage in SR2 in the ruined future Raziel comes across.

TempySmurf
25th Aug 2008, 01:23
There's nothing poetic. He KILLS himself in the game. Not the alternate ending. IN THE GAME. Literally kills himself with the Soul Reaver. Go play the game.

fneh
25th Aug 2008, 02:26
XD howard the duck always calls ppl hairless apes. even tho technically, humans have more hair than a lot of apes, it's just shorter and not as dense... anyways...


maybe the mass was the same species as squiddy or something?
if the hylden were abusing them that's not gonna go down well with squiddy is it? tho... no one can see squiddy and everyone could see the mass..

FearGhoul
25th Aug 2008, 11:37
TempySmurf, I assume you're talking about the fight against Moebius? Well, it's not like Kain is actually killing his future self. In the game Blood Omen, as it is, if the later games were never made, then it is possible that the Kain in that fight could have been Kain from the future if he chose to damn the land, but there's also the choice to save Nosgoth as well. In the series as it is though, in that timeline, Kain was killed by Raziel at the former Sarafan Stronghold about thirty years before that point in Blood Omen.
About the Mass being related to the Elder God, I think this might just be true. It's tough to say. Not really any evidence to say it is, but still a nice concept to play around with.
About the Hylden and the start of the war. I think that the Hylden had come up with a method for immortality, and the Elder God found out about this, and so he ordered their deaths. I think that the Hylden modified this immortality, and turned it into the curse that they put on the Ancient Vampires, but had unintended side effects, which were the Dark Gifts and all the other cool Vampire powers. I think that when the Ancient Vampires banished the Hylden, the Elder God wasn't happy about this, because he wanted them dead and to have their souls to feed on.

The_Hylden
25th Aug 2008, 14:00
Last time I am saynig it:


the image of Kain brought back from the supposed future was another one of Moebius' illusions, like his own visage in SR2 in the ruined future Raziel comes across.

TempySmurf
25th Aug 2008, 14:30
That's an assumption on your part.

Linikratyo
25th Aug 2008, 14:48
Even if it was the real Kain Kain fought in BO1, then still that Kain didn't die.... He should have died in the Sarafan Stronghold and the time changed when this didn't happen, so he was never killed as a vampire. :rasp:

fneh
25th Aug 2008, 17:49
squiddy could summon demons in SR2 though, so it leads me to believe that he has omnicience there as well as the material and spectral planes.

There's got to be some kind of link to squiddy and the pillars. We don't really know a whole lot about them but i'd say squiddy's the one that wanted them erected in the first place.

we DO know:

- squiddy has full power even after they fall (pulling demons through and creating portals bbetween spectral etc)


squiddy wants nosgoth to be healthy and that's dependant on the pillars.


what i want to know is, what was nosgoth like BEFORE the pillars were standing. Was it a waste land like in SR? If it wasn't then WHY are the pillars linked to the life of the land?? are they how squiddy channels souls??

Linikratyo
25th Aug 2008, 17:51
this was probably a mistake of the aincients, though I never saw healthy land on the murals..........

The Elder God is probably linked to the wheel of fate and he gets mad if the wheel does not turn........... :D

FearGhoul
26th Aug 2008, 01:06
I don't think the Elder God had anything to do with those Demons in SR2. I think it was all the Hylden/Cult of Hash'ak'gik summoning them, and they had no idea about the Elder God.
I remember someone here had the idea that maybe during the war between the Hylden and Ancient Vampires, the weapons they both used destroyed Nosgoth, and that the Pillars restored the land with magic back to how it used to be, which means that in Soul Rever, we see Nosgoth as it was just before the Pillars were raised.

swordsicle
26th Aug 2008, 06:07
I'm gonna go out on a limb here.. take this for what you may... I'm sure to get some flack.

I think the pillars were made to deal with the EG, and that the spectral realm is his prison.

The pillars only work as long as there are Vampires , or some remains of "ancient's" blood still in existance.

The EG has tried a few times to eradicate vampires, when Mobious created the brotherhood of the Saraphan, and again with Raziel. If Kain were to sacrifice himself at the end of BO1, I don't think the pillars would have been restored. I believe the last pillar would have fallen with the last drop of Vampire blood. The EG would finally be free of his otherworldly prison, and once again, the EG would be able to manifest himself in the real world and take over Nosgoth.

TempySmurf
26th Aug 2008, 12:20
Even if it was the real Kain Kain fought in BO1, then still that Kain didn't die.... He should have died in the Sarafan Stronghold and the time changed when this didn't happen, so he was never killed as a vampire. :rasp:

You've got it backwards. Since he didn't die in the Sarafan Stronghold he can be summoned in the future to fight and be killed by himself.

Linikratyo
26th Aug 2008, 14:28
no, because in BO1 the time isn't altered in this way..... and otherwise it should be the elder Kain from LoK 6........... but why should he kill himself?? It doesn't make sense....... So I think the illusion is still the best way to call it........ :rasp:

The_Hylden
26th Aug 2008, 15:10
Yup, all you have to do is look at the story to know that was an illusion. Kain can't be killed in two places at different times. When he was killing that future visage of himself, that was on the timeline that leads, before the paradoxes in SR2, to Raziel killing him in WtJ's chapel. And we all know that Moebius is prevalent at making working illusions. By working, I mean ones that speak, act, do... Nifty little power, that:p


Q: Was the "ghost of Moebius" in SR2 truly a spirit, or an illusion created by him while he was alive?

A: It was an illusion created by Moebius to influence Raziel.

Now, can the thread move off the nonsense, please? Hm? I fail to see what this had to do with anything anyway.

FearGhoul
26th Aug 2008, 23:38
I think Raziel's a bunny rabbit.

The_Hylden
27th Aug 2008, 01:25
D'oh!! :p

fneh
27th Aug 2008, 14:47
I think this could work really well IF the hylden constructed the pillars and then the ancients/squiddy caused them to backfire and banish them.

Thing is:

the hylden are still gone even after the pillars fall.... WHY???
it's made very clear that the dimensional boundries are less stable over this time.

Why isn't Squiddy running amok after the pillars fall? He's seen in SR2 in the material plane (though only raziel CAN acutally see him and he's a spectral creature....) before the pillars fall


I do like the idea that the hylden banished squiddy to spectral though and then the ancients banished the hylden using their own "weapon" against them. You could easily link the mass to squiddy using this as well



I'm gonna go out on a limb here.. take this for what you may... I'm sure to get some flack.

I think the pillars were made to deal with the EG, and that the spectral realm is his prison.

The pillars only work as long as there are Vampires , or some remains of "ancient's" blood still in existance.

The EG has tried a few times to eradicate vampires, when Mobious created the brotherhood of the Saraphan, and again with Raziel. If Kain were to sacrifice himself at the end of BO1, I don't think the pillars would have been restored. I believe the last pillar would have fallen with the last drop of Vampire blood. The EG would finally be free of his otherworldly prison, and once again, the EG would be able to manifest himself in the real world and take over Nosgoth.

Aranor
27th Aug 2008, 14:56
The only part of the pillars that is destroyed is from the ground up. Beneath they are still in tact. So perhaps they are still working only not so strongly as intended to when whole.

The_Hylden
27th Aug 2008, 15:22
I think this could work really well IF the hylden constructed the pillars and then the ancients/squiddy caused them to backfire and banish them.

Well, if this were to be the case, it goes against all that Janos has told us, multiple times through 3 games, along with every mural we've ever seen from the Ancients.


Thing is:

the hylden are still gone even after the pillars fall.... WHY???
it's made very clear that the dimensional boundries are less stable over this time.

Explained in both Defiance and in BO2, the Hylden Lord needed the Hylden Gate up and running. It's not enough just to weaken the boundaries, they have to create a stable portal to bring forth their army *in their actual bodies* Otherwise, they'd simply continue leaking through as spirits, possessing other corpses, or living beings. We've seen how unstable that process is.


Why isn't Squiddy running amok after the pillars fall? He's seen in SR2 in the material plane (though only raziel CAN acutally see him and he's a spectral creature....) before the pillars fall

By "running amuck" do you mean causing chaos? We see a hint in Defiance why he's not a bigger part before on other timelines. Only with the Hylden Gate about to be up and running and Kain out of the picture it seems can he now feel free to summon his "more malleable servants," of which I believe also have to come from the Demon Dimension. That's the only reason he raised Moebius again to aid him, as I posted about in another thread here (you'd be surprised how often that happens). However, Moebius laid to final rest and that chamber buried in rubble, his plans for that are once again stopped, it seems.

Raziel does note in SR2 that he seems to thrive in the centuries after the Pillars have fallen, seeing as how he seemed to have grown bigger, though we now have seen he's an undeterminable size in the BO1 era already. He does thrive in a way from all of the chaos and death after the Pillars go boom, as that means more souls for him to feed on. In SR1's era, also, you remember those supposed tremors that only happen as Raziel comes to the Sanctuary of the Clans for the first time, then conveniently the squid tells him it's Nosgoth on the brink? It could also very well be simply his more powerful and larger body in that era undulating around on purpose to cause the tremors for Raziel's benefit.

Amor:


The only part of the pillars that is destroyed is from the ground up. Beneath they are still in tact. So perhaps they are still working only not so strongly as intended to when whole.

No, the Pillars in the lower chamber have been ruined also. Only stubs stick out of the ground above and some broken parts in the water below. That's why Raziel makes the accusation to squiddy that one might think he "tore them down single-handedly," viewing his tentacle wrapped around one of the broken stubs. The Pillars are finito.

Black-angel
31st Aug 2008, 10:25
:(
I really have to say that this series is probably dead.

plz, Don't give up!!! There might be a chance...
There has to be something we can do...

What if we provide the budget for another game by donating?

Linikratyo
31st Aug 2008, 11:22
I think they were allready planned to make one after Deus ex 3, but it's probably cancelled again of that agreement thing, which killed 14 projects.... :mad2: ****

Black-angel
1st Sep 2008, 09:26
agreement thing?? :confused: ....sorry.... could you please explain that?
I don't know what it is...:(

Linikratyo
1st Sep 2008, 19:55
well, I read somewhere on the forums that Warner Bross and eidos made a deal (about a movie or something), which canceled 14 other projects of eidos. :mad: The TR fans didn't seem to be happy either..... I don't know the details so if anyone could explain it further then that might be helpfull.... :D

swordsicle
3rd Sep 2008, 07:32
It wasn't a movie deal. Eidos and SCI lost money in 2007 after the buyout of Eidos, so , in order ot stay profitable, they needed to cut 200 jobs, and 14 planned titles in 2008.
http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=19788

Linikratyo
3rd Sep 2008, 15:46
ah, it is clear to me now...... I still feel stapped in the back, but now I understand why they did this............ :eek:

fneh
4th Sep 2008, 19:22
Well, if this were to be the case, it goes against all that Janos has told us, multiple times through 3 games, along with every mural we've ever seen from the Ancients.
.


history is written by the winners.

and let's face it: there's been much bigger plot twists that CANT be explained so simply

The_Hylden
5th Sep 2008, 00:36
Heh, nice redirect of the thread there.:thumbsup:


history is written by the winners.

However, even when we've come across the murals of the "losers," both in Defiance under the catacombs (where Raziel uttered that line, "History is written by the victors...") and in BO2, we've still yet to see them state otherwise. So, until they do, I will believe the stated history on who built the Pillars as the gospel:p

fredmonster
6th Sep 2008, 17:27
i dont think it is just stock holders that are holding it back because there are are millions of fans that still want another game to be released. i think its a lack of ideas.if that is true, i think they should remake the first ?blood omen? just make it 3d like the other games, at least until they can think of another story .i played the first ?blood omen? because it was a great game, i only played the other games because of the name at first.the story became my excuse with ?soul reaver 2? and ?defiance? but the gameplay wasn't that great. i think when eidos makes another lok, they should make it in the style of ?the elder scrolls? series, that's how the first lok was and eidos should have kept it that way. they should give kain all his powers back, litter nosgoth of secret weapons and armor and they should use the layout and map of the first game and incorporate areas and landmarks from the other games into it.

Linikratyo
7th Sep 2008, 08:13
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate elder scrolls gameplay!!! Then BO1 gameplay is better!!! Then do Knights of the Old Republic gameplay if you want to change..... but otherwise I would like to see a type of gameplay used in previous parts of the series...... :rasp:

FearGhoul
8th Sep 2008, 00:52
Soul Reaver gameplay ruled.

ShardofTruth
8th Sep 2008, 09:27
I really wish for a conclusion of the LoK series, but I can't see it happening.:(
CD is only making Tomb Raider games these days and the Lara's fans are not only demanding for a new title in two years but for remakes of all the former games.

It's a nightmare and I'm glad, that Amy Henning left the company before EIDOS could confronted her with this.

Raziel's daughter
8th Sep 2008, 13:41
That's not fair...:( It's Lok's turn!!

SonicTeam
26th Sep 2008, 03:27
It will remain dead for a long time, probably forever sadly. The company needs to make money and LoK wasn't doing the business they had hoped. IT is sad but that is how it goes.

Actually, only BO2 and Defiance didn't make the sales figures Eidos was looking for; unfortunately these are also the two most recent titles. I'm not sure this is because they were bad titles. Soul Reaver 2 was co-developed along with Blood Omen 2, and hey were released about six months apart. As a consequence, BO2 received a lukewarm reception, though this is also attributable to unimaginative combat mechanics and plot incongruencies with the rest of the series to date. My theory: people were not interested in purchasing another Kain title so soon after SR2. It's release was along with many other popular titles, like Warcraft III, Smash Brothers Melee and Elder Scrolls III. Amid many other releases, BO2 was lost to the world more or less. Both its release and that Soul Reaver 2 also happened to follow the tragedies of September 11, 2001; this hurt the entire industry do to the subsequent stock market slip. In spite of all this, Soul Reaver 2 nearly met Eidos sales goals and Blood Omen 2 fell marginally short (it should be noted that games rarely exceed sales expectations: most are wildly optimistic).

And then there was Defiance. It received decent reviews, good ones from a few, but was criticized for it poor camera mechanics and auto-targeting combat. Using content for Raziel chapters that was basically reskinned from SR2 was also not helpful in this regard. In spite of being a four-platform release, it fell far short of sales expectations. Though this can be blamed in part for being released alongside several dynamite titles, lukewarm reviews and changes in game concept are what killed this title.

In any case, according to Wikipedia, Eidos CEO (still, I think) Bill Gardner has been quoted as saying that Eidos is interested in continuing the series. The recent acquisiton of Eidos by Time-Warner leaves this up in the air. Departure of Amy Hennig from Crystal Dynamic after release of Defiance casts further doubts on the release of a new title (and who the characters belong to, for that matter). Bottom line is: who knows?

djoey3984
30th Sep 2008, 04:24
Well you have to look at the gamer demographic. Most developers are sticking to what works nowadays. Recently it's just rehashed FPS and a flooding of MMORPG.

Solution: World of Nosgoth. Then give Kain a rocket launcher and grenade thrower. That'll probably smoke up some prospective buyers.=D

FearGhoul
30th Sep 2008, 07:25
Well you have to look at the gamer demographic. Most developers are sticking to what works nowadays. Recently it's just rehashed FPS and a flooding of MMORPG.

Solution: World of Nosgoth. Then give Kain a rocket launcher and grenade thrower. That'll probably smoke up some prospective buyers.=D

And don't forget a bunch of almost naked chicks running around.

One_Winged_Angel
22nd Oct 2008, 05:20
Unfortunately, the problem for a possible LOK6, is the story.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trashing the story itself, the problem with the story is from a marketing stand point only.
It seems the general feeling is that LOK6 will most likely depend on how much profit it can generate. The problem here is that to earn more profit, you need more accessibility, which means opening the game up to more people, people who haven't followed the entire series. This means that sadly, we (those who have happily followed the story) are almost more likely to get a reboot of the series rather than a conclusion. Hopefully, the fact that fans are still keeping the forums busy, years after Defiance's release, can somehow influence a proper finale. Here's Hoping!

Linikratyo
22nd Oct 2008, 07:48
if they just can make Kain look like a brutal vampire who kills everything with his mighty Soul Reaver, then I think people could like it...... They should make the gameplay very good for good reviews and much selling though...... but they shouldn't forget about the storyline and dialogue...... :scratch: