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LeatherJacket
6th Apr 2008, 09:40
I love the original Deus Ex. It had a very good atmosphere with its dark and gritty look.

I think well done rain (like this nvidia sample (http://developer.download.nvidia.com/SDK/10/direct3d/samples.html#rain) ) will help a great deal :D. No need to go all the way like Ati's toy shop demo! Just get the rain-light interaction and the little bit of local haze where the rain hits objects. This and a bit of post processing will go a long way getting a cyberpunkish film noir style IMHO. While I'm a graphics programmer (right now I'm working on graphics drivers), I only request you to do the minimal things to convey the mood—which I think has more to do with art direction than GPU intensive graphical effects. Eye candy is appreciated but not at all required :).

I wish that the music is done like the original one. The original music was just awesome and drew me right in!

Also I loved the teaser! The flashing imagery some how reminded me of the flashing symbols in the movie Casshern :).

jordan_a
6th Apr 2008, 10:47
I only request you to do the minimal things to convey the mood—which I think has more to do with art direction than GPU intensive graphical effects.Amen to that. The setting is important (Rain (http://developer.download.nvidia.com/SDK/10/direct3d/screenshots/samples/Rain.html)) they shouldn't spend too much time on it though. The story, a great and true video game soundtrack and challenging levels is all I need.

LeatherJacket
6th Apr 2008, 15:27
The story, a great and true video game soundtrack and challenging levels is all I need.

Of course, these and the character development and the multiple solutions gameplay are what really make Deus Ex! However there are dedicated people for each of these things in the team and people dedicated to the visuals too! So these may not be completely exclusive. I had to post this because the visual style of DX:IW was a big departure from the original and I really liked the style of the teaser, it was cyberpunkish while still being visually tasteful.

There are many movies that have very interesting style and visuals while using very little CGI and having a small budget. There is a nice opportunity for this game to stand out in visual style too.

rhalibus
6th Apr 2008, 20:51
One of the distinctions of the original DX was that every level took place at night...I think this added to the immersion: When you looked out at an endless black sea on the docks of Libery Island you were easily immersed in an enormous world.

I wouldn't mind an "all night" DX3 as well...:cool:

Larington
6th Apr 2008, 21:28
Its funny because, I've seen this done with films as well, the original Batman movie took place pretty much all at night time, and it really helped the strength of the film in ways such as carrying the mood of the two central characters along with the action, music and so on. But later batman films included more and more daylight scenes and theres a noticable lack of tension in the later films as a result.

And good/well-placed rain audio/visual is critical imho, wasn't so easy with the graphics engine in the original due to the way it was designed but I could see it working now.

I don't know if any of you have played the point and clicker called Syberia (The first of the two) but at the beginning of the game its raining outside, you go indoors and you can hear the rain hitting the roof of the building and it does so much for the opening sequence of the game just to have that audio continuity.

Vasarto
6th Apr 2008, 21:50
I love the original Deus Ex. It had a very good atmosphere with its dark and gritty look.

I think well done rain (like this nvidia sample (http://developer.download.nvidia.com/SDK/10/direct3d/samples.html#rain) ) will help a great deal :D. No need to go all the way like Ati's toy shop demo! Just get the rain-light interaction and the little bit of local haze where the rain hits objects. This and a bit of post processing will go a long way getting a cyberpunkish film noir style IMHO. While I'm a graphics programmer (right now I'm working on graphics drivers), I only request you to do the minimal things to convey the mood—which I think has more to do with art direction than GPU intensive graphical effects. Eye candy is appreciated but not at all required :).

I wish that the music is done like the original one. The original music was just awesome and drew me right in!

Also I loved the teaser! The flashing imagery some how reminded me of the flashing symbols in the movie Casshern :).

What about a heavy fog for certain levels. Or Fog like weather? That would add a certain atmoshpere to some of the levels. Also if there is any in the game. There should be puddles of water around being hit by rain drops and streams of water going down rain gutters along the city.

I liked the fact that how in DX it was always night time no matter where you went and ally ways were really really dark and had Hidden passages and things to find like ammo or date disks.

LeatherJacket
7th Apr 2008, 01:52
Yes it should be night-only! :D With rain once in a while! I thought I mentioned it but seems like I didn't night is very important!


There should be puddles of water around being hit by rain drops and streams of water going down rain gutters along the city.


That's exactly what I'm saying is NOT needed :D. We do not need a rain simulator to make Deus Ex awesome. Making everything more shiny, accumulating water puddles, refraction effects with water/water drops on windscreens, glasspanes and proper shadows of these, mini whirlpools where we have drains, etc etc.. ( you can watch all of this in the Ati toy shop demo.) While this is definitely good to watch (and code!), generally every additional feature like this is expensive in terms of the number of developer hours that need to be spent on such things. As you keep adding more such effects you generally have to make sure it behaves well with all other effects/materials in the system without losing much performance. Instead I would prefer the levels are much larger like in the original.

Keep this in mind—no matter how amazing the game's graphics are at the time of release they will be dated in a very short time :). What will be immortal is the good gameplay, story and overall experience. The atmosphere adds to that experience. The movie Avalon by anime director Mamoru Oshii (Ghost in the Shell) has a very nice atmosphere and is not very expensive to make either! As long as the game has the minimum eye candy so that its sales won't be hurt we are fine!

Vasarto
7th Apr 2008, 02:26
Yes it should be night-only! :D With rain once in a while! I thought I mentioned it but seems like I didn't night is very important!



That's exactly what I'm saying is NOT needed :D. We do not need a rain simulator to make Deus Ex awesome. Making everything more shiny, accumulating water puddles, refraction effects with water/water drops on windscreens, glasspanes and proper shadows of these, mini whirlpools where we have drains, etc etc.. ( you can watch all of this in the Ati toy shop demo.) While this is definitely good to watch (and code!), generally every additional feature like this is expensive in terms of the number of developer hours that need to be spent on such things. As you keep adding more such effects you generally have to make sure it behaves well with all other effects/materials in the system without losing much performance. Instead I would prefer the levels are much larger like in the original.

Keep this in mind—no matter how amazing the game's graphics are at the time of release they will be dated in a very short time :). What will be immortal is the good gameplay, story and overall experience. The atmosphere adds to that experience. The movie Avalon by anime director Mamoru Oshii (Ghost in the Shell) has a very nice atmosphere and is not very expensive to make either! As long as the game has the minimum eye candy so that its sales won't be hurt we are fine!


Ok XD, Im sorry I was just going on and on and stuff. As long as the rain in convincing. Unlike in Elder Scrolls Oblivion that even if your under cover of a stone roof your still getting rained on. I can't complain abou too much. Maybe have a veriaty of Weather effects from light to heavy fog or light or heavy rain. Also every stage could have the possiblity of having any kind of weather. It wouldn't chance every time you leave or enter a new area or building but it the weather would change just enough or be random just enough so that every time you play the game or every time you go back and forth between Paris or Newyork or where-ever the stages are. Those places wouldn't always have the same weather all the time.

Im sure something like that wouldn't be too hard to do. Just have it so that there is a small..but not too small of a chance of the weather being diffarant
in certain area's than what its normal weather would be.

Conspiracy Theorist
7th Apr 2008, 19:02
I liked the way that different characters reflected different aspects of and relations to the overall state-of-the-world. It would also be nice if you can talk with them, etc. Please, don't turn it into a shooter with a minimal superficial storyline. That would be the worst.

Also, a world that is BIG with places to just get lost in the atmosphere is nice too. So, the less limits on places to explore and ways to explore them, the better. For example, I think I remember leaving from Maggie Chow's apartment from out of her window.... I think there were a few things to see on the way down.

I guess there has to be a balance between lots of people and people with lots of character, though. I don't know why, but they really did a great job with the character of the characters in the first game (don't remember the 2nd one so well). Maybe I was just young and impressionable back then . . . . ;)

LeatherJacket
8th Apr 2008, 06:23
I liked the way that different characters reflected different aspects of and relations to the overall state-of-the-world. It would also be nice if you can talk with them, etc. Please, don't turn it into a shooter with a minimal superficial storyline. That would be the worst.

Also, a world that is BIG with places to just get lost in the atmosphere is nice too. So, the less limits on places to explore and ways to explore them, the better. For example, I think I remember leaving from Maggie Chow's apartment from out of her window.... I think there were a few things to see on the way down.


I fully agree with you. I did the same in Maggie's apartment. I was always on the lookout for new nooks and corners to explore.

Laputan Machine
8th Apr 2008, 06:40
What about a heavy fog for certain levels. Or Fog like weather? That would add a certain atmoshpere to some of the levels. Also if there is any in the game. There should be puddles of water around being hit by rain drops and streams of water going down rain gutters along the city.

I liked the fact that how in DX it was always night time no matter where you went and ally ways were really really dark and had Hidden passages and things to find like ammo or date disks.

Fog seems to have the nature fear effect that whenever you walk in among it that something going to run out of the corner and smack you with a lead pipe. I don't know if that's just me, but its in any case I think its speaks that the unseen is as stimulating as the seen.

Gary_Savage
8th Apr 2008, 06:43
Not only that, but fog would also aid in my being stealthy, but at the same time, hide the enemy from me, as well.

DXeXodus
8th Apr 2008, 12:01
And I guess that is where thermal vision would come in :) it would be great to move from point to point in the fog, knocking down the enemies which cant see you. Because the thermal imaging may not last forever there may be a point when you dont really know where you are and you are without bioelectric energy. Scary.

Gary_Savage
8th Apr 2008, 12:42
"We are thinking the same thought" :D

--Anna Navarre, DX1

Gary_Savage
8th Apr 2008, 12:50
That reminds me of running around in the narrow corridors around the servant quarters, in the Bafford mansion, for days, before figuring out where I was going (i.e., I finally figured I should be using the compass), in the first mission of Thief1. Exciting, but scary!

Come to think of it, I would like DX3 to have missions where you are lost without the compass, and maybe even areas where an electromagnetic field throws you off, and you have to figure out where you are. The sewers where JC meets Chad were a place where JC needed a compass, in DX1, but after one playthrough the compass was not all that necessary. I would like a few repetitive hallways/architectures, where you are running blind without a compass, for many, many playthroughs.