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Vasarto
5th Apr 2008, 18:28
I think that in Deus Ex 3 we should be able to reply to emails that we get or can see from computer terminals.

I know its a stretch but it could have an A.I built in that could read the message you type in. Than if you answered it anywhere near correctly enough or respond with a message that has the a certain ammount of words the computer is looking for...namely the ones required for you to have in order to regiester that you responded correctly than you can than later on in the game..whenever recieve either a reward or most likely that could add more miniquests to the game later on or even gain emails back with vital info on characters pasts,Information that would make the plot thicken,Or gain tips on secret locations to an secret area behind a dumpster in an ally there is a block that if pressed the wall behind you will open and a small walk in closet like space will open and inside are shelves with ammo and guns/mods aug can ect.


Here is an example of what I mean just in case you might still not get it!

Email:I ran into trouble yesterday. Its UNATCO again! I had no choice but to leave that weird blue thing behind. I know you always had a terrible sense
of direction but if you could some how sneak in there and get it for me when
the heat dies down I will pay you twice what I own you! If you forget where
it was just let me know.I must go now, They are comming and I don't want to be seen.


Ok so we get the picture that There is an Aug can hidden somewhere...hmm..I wonder!

Now the words its looking for is TELL,SPOT,ME,PLEASE,GOOD LUCK,WHERE
You'r Reply to email:Sounds bad, Ya I will pick it up for you. Could you PLEASE TELL me WHERE the SPOT is again?

THANK YOU and GOOD LUCK my friend.

Ok so than later on in the game..kinda like in real life..maybe just after you complete certain missions it would reply back to that computer or account.
So where-ever that computer was. Just go find it and look up the new message telling you the spot to go too. Also I think it would be smart so that
if you use bad words or if you don't say please thankyou or sorry in certian emails it could be like that person getting upset and another email being sent
of them telling you off. In other words you FAIL!

What do you guys think? Pretty genious right? Innovative right? Ground braking gameplay that could proove to be useful?

Unstoppable
5th Apr 2008, 21:01
Its good :).

Vasarto
5th Apr 2008, 23:06
Well it would add a bit of depth and an actual reason to go through peoples
emails right? Thank you for letting me know!

rhalibus
5th Apr 2008, 23:11
Cool idea--although maybe a bit resource intensive when we all just want Eidos Montreal to focus on core DX gameplay...:)

minus0ne
6th Apr 2008, 07:54
It'd have to be a REALLY great AI if it's to overcome all the horrible spelling people will put in (looking at you Vas ;) ). No this is not such a good idea, and I don't want to be typing emails as part of the core gameplay (and I'm afraid I'd probably just guess at the AI's keywords and type them in randomly).

Also, where you say; TELL,SPOT,ME,PLEASE,GOOD LUCK,WHERE
Someone else thinks: TALK,LOCATION, I, FU, BREAK A LEG, WHO

It'll just come down to guessing the keywords - yay fun! Not. Also, it would create a gigantic language barrier for people who are, let's say, even less fluent than yourself at the English language (and DX has never been a game for lame dubbed versions).

Xcom
6th Apr 2008, 08:37
Now the words its looking for is TELL,SPOT,ME,PLEASE,GOOD LUCK,WHERE


How would you know which words it's looking for? If it's some kind of predefined keywords (ie: where, when, what), then you'd have something like ancient text adventure games which.. (I am sorry to say) .. is hardly innovative. Real text recognition and interaction is pretty hard to program.
For example, what will happen if you type and send completely unrelated e-mail, "Forget the weird blue thing. Please tell me where the nearest bar is? Thank you!" What kind of response will you get, if any?

Blade_hunter
6th Apr 2008, 17:35
Hum, yes the idea sounds good and as someone's here thinks and I think too it's pretty hard to program text recongnition.
I don't know if some predefined texts to ask something in a e-mail can be more simple and stay good as the first idea ...
The system can't be perfect because you can't ask everything, only programmed sentences with programed anwers but it can be a good enhancement, if someone like my alternate proposal ...

Kevyne-Shandris
6th Apr 2008, 20:37
How would you know which words it's looking for? If it's some kind of predefined keywords (ie: where, when, what), then you'd have something like ancient text adventure games which.. (I am sorry to say) .. is hardly innovative. Real text recognition and interaction is pretty hard to program.
For example, what will happen if you type and send completely unrelated e-mail, "Forget the weird blue thing. Please tell me where the nearest bar is? Thank you!" What kind of response will you get, if any?

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=743011&postcount=55

But what I had in mind was a dummy text -- email to Santa -- version. Reason being is if you did had to write a real email, and send it, in a game where the AI can't think for itself...well, you already typed the outcome. ;)

Just need to program a trigger, that once a player sent something off in an email, it'll recognize the deed. A programmer with a sense of humor could add some other triggers -- if the email was full of cuss words or what not (like the old DOS games used to recognize, and rub the player about, when they got frustrated and typed what they felt!).

The email is a pet thingee for me, since this happened in DX...

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=460728&postcount=12

Larington
6th Apr 2008, 22:12
Been thinking about this, the big obstacle is that even now, dedicated conversation AIs have a BIG problem with understanding context, I can't think of an example of the top of my head, but heres something to mull over:

Think of a word that has two meanings even though they word is spelt the same in both meanings. A word reader/interpreter would need to work out which meaning applies to that usage of the word from the text before and after it. Humans do it subconciously, which makes it hard for us to come up with a reliable way to teach an AI to do it. With manually typed e-mails, unfortunately even the folks who have been dedicated to creating the technology that might do it for years now haven't yet discovered a reliable way of doing it...

All of the above said, this doesn't mean its impossible to send e-mails within the game but there'd have to be much tighter controls over how it could be done. Thus far the only method I can think of is to tell the game you want to send an e-mail to someone by pressing a conversation style dialogue list and select (As an example) "send e-mail to Paul Denton saying you will be attending the graduation ceremony" and then it happens.

It also presents an interesting opportunity, where you send a 'sensitive' e-mail possibly to a conspirator or reporter or some other character and you get in trouble for it. Alternatively, remember in DX1 you get told off for going in the ladies toilets, with an e-mail system you could get told off in work by sending non-work related e-mails or, perhaps, something which comes under sexual descrimination laws - "Damnit JC, this is 2052, not the 1970's, so act like it".

If sending e-mails were to be implemented, care would need to be taken that players understand this is possible and it may be advisable to make it for optional stuff and side quests only... For instance, say you had to send a specific e-mail before you could progress in the game - How would the player know he/she needs to do this.

Vasarto
7th Apr 2008, 02:36
Been thinking about this, the big obstacle is that even now, dedicated conversation AIs have a BIG problem with understanding context, I can't think of an example of the top of my head, but heres something to mull over:

Think of a word that has two meanings even though they word is spelt the same in both meanings. A word reader/interpreter would need to work out which meaning applies to that usage of the word from the text before and after it. Humans do it subconciously, which makes it hard for us to come up with a reliable way to teach an AI to do it. With manually typed e-mails, unfortunately even the folks who have been dedicated to creating the technology that might do it for years now haven't yet discovered a reliable way of doing it...

All of the above said, this doesn't mean its impossible to send e-mails within the game but there'd have to be much tighter controls over how it could be done. Thus far the only method I can think of is to tell the game you want to send an e-mail to someone by pressing a conversation style dialogue list and select (As an example) "send e-mail to Paul Denton saying you will be attending the graduation ceremony" and then it happens.

It also presents an interesting opportunity, where you send a 'sensitive' e-mail possibly to a conspirator or reporter or some other character and you get in trouble for it. Alternatively, remember in DX1 you get told off for going in the ladies toilets, with an e-mail system you could get told off in work by sending non-work related e-mails or, perhaps, something which comes under sexual descrimination laws - "Damnit JC, this is 2052, not the 1970's, so act like it".

If sending e-mails were to be implemented, care would need to be taken that players understand this is possible and it may be advisable to make it for optional stuff and side quests only... For instance, say you had to send a specific e-mail before you could progress in the game - How would the player know he/she needs to do this.


Hmm you make a good point. So maybe the email thing could be simplified somehow. Than make it only a thing to uncover certain hidden area's in the game that not normal players could find. Like the Alternitive way of getting to the nsf generator by hopping that fence or in the airfield's building just before you got to that 747. The Secret Weapon storage room.

Maybe it could be something where it would require you to send an already written email. Like one you would write and than save before you sent it for spell checking or whatever reason. There could be three or more of these and you need to send the right one to that person. As for the sending an
email for progressin in the game. Maybe if something like that were to happen, you could recieve a radio message just like how jc does and be givin the hint that he needs to do that.

Gary_Savage
7th Apr 2008, 02:54
Hmm you make a good point. So maybe the email thing could be simplified somehow. Than make it only a thing to uncover certain hidden area's in the game that not normal players could find. Like the Alternitive way of getting to the nsf generator by hopping that fence or in the airfield's building just before you got to that 747. The Secret Weapon storage room.

Maybe it could be something where it would require you to send an already written email. Like one you would write and than save before you sent it for spell checking or whatever reason. There could be three or more of these and you need to send the right one to that person. As for the sending an
email for progressin in the game. Maybe if something like that were to happen, you could recieve a radio message just like how jc does and be givin the hint that he needs to do that.

I like this. It's a bit on rails, compared to the idea that a player's words could trigger responses (and wise cracks, if the player decides to cuss), but this would be like an e-mail version of the chats in DX1. I remember talking to Anna Navarre after the Castle Clinton job, and how many EMP grenades she gave me depended on my responses to her. If you are suggesting an e-mail version of something like that, then I would like that.

Vasarto
7th Apr 2008, 03:04
I like this. It's a bit on rails, compared to the idea that a player's words could trigger responses (and wise cracks, if the player decides to cuss), but this would be like an e-mail version of the chats in DX1. I remember talking to Anna Navarre after the Castle Clinton job, and how many EMP grenades she gave me depended on my responses to her. If you are suggesting an e-mail version of something like that, then I would like that.


Yes YES! thats exactly it! I didn't think of it that way. However that is what I was saying.
It would work better if it was used that way.

IceBallz
7th Apr 2008, 09:04
My english sucks. So my answers will even not be regristred by the computed ones. :(

Xcom
7th Apr 2008, 10:01
Just need to program a trigger, that once a player sent something off in an email, it'll recognize the deed. A programmer with a sense of humor could add some other triggers -- if the email was full of cuss words or what not (like the old DOS games used to recognize, and rub the player about, when they got frustrated and typed what they felt!).

Well, if it's just going to be a fun gimmick, sort of like an "easter egg", then I have no objections; but I thought the idea was to use a system like this for something useful (ie. locating an item, or luring somebody out, etc)

I agree that the simplified idea of sending messages will probably be more productive. Having something like a dialog menu where you can choose what message to send (if any) without actually typing. Or you can have some sort of puzzle with this, (like it's done in some other adventure games I've seen). For example, you have the following e-mail and need to fill in the blanks (correctly).



Hello John,

How is _______ doing? I've been working on the _______ project,
and have run out of ______. I remember you told me I could use yours,
but I keep forgetting the code to your ______. Please send it ASAP.

Regards

LeatherJacket
7th Apr 2008, 11:07
Selecting from a pre-written list of replies would work.

I think what would be a bit of fun is if the devs sprinkle some spam mail in a few of the accounts. It can be used to indirectly convey a bit more about the world in DX. I liked how DX1 had a lot of info about the world scattered in the game.

GruntOwner
7th Apr 2008, 14:30
What about spelling? In England we spell it 'centre' but in the USA it's 'center', and people with dyslexia/trying to spell arkward words might have some difficulty? a similar system has been tried, but ALICEbot is a fine example as to why people using these systems is difficult, even if it is more complex. A set of options would be good, but actually asking the player to write it themselves might be difficult as machines can't make assumpotions for typoes and spellchecks can still misenturperate it.

IcePure
7th Apr 2008, 15:42
You could always do it like normal dialogue - you get three or four options to use as a reply.