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Mate
2nd Apr 2008, 03:35
As a fan of the Tomb Raider sequel I have always considered it a WEAKNESS of the game and Lara's herself not to be able to fight properly with no weapons at all. I mean, we all see Lara as our favourite heroine, a girl whose impressive agility, strengh and other skills are beyond the capabilities of any other woman (or even man) in the world. One thing that FRUSTRATES and bugs me very much of TR games is the fact that Lara cannot just run to her enemy and show some of her great abilities in REAL COMBAT. I imagine a Lara who is always able to face a human or a mid sized animal enemy using only her own body and skills to win. We all know she is perfectly able to do it. The only thought of it makes me feel much better, knowing that that beautiful girl im controlling is strong enough not to DEPEND ALWAYS on a pair of powerful guns to kill an insignificant mercenary. COME ON! WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LARA CROFT! she MUST be able to run and jump above an enemy's head and kick it in mid air or something, i dont know, able also to dodge his attacks, make a turn and punch his face! I don't know. THIS GAME MUST HAVE A LOOOOT OF MELEE AND HAND TO HAND MOVES. It would be much better. I hated that in TRL if i wanted to kick the enemy lara HAD to have her pistols drawn. come on girl, relax. You can do it without them. you've got THAT brain, you've got THAT body and you've got THOSE agility and strengh. YOU ARE A HERO, NOT A SHOOTER.

How many of you agree with this? COMMENT ABOUT IT.
EIDOS: PLEASE DO SOMETHING.

i dont know why every time i write L A R A it changes to LAURA. Whatever..

Icetea555
2nd Apr 2008, 05:51
I will say I do agree with that. It will be nice if she can us real combat defiantly when she runs out of bullets.

Imaginary Whisk
2nd Apr 2008, 06:17
But don't you remember the crowbar from Chronicles? D:

Seriously though, anything that isn't close to how bad it was in AoD, otherwise they might as well not bother. :/

LisaB1962
2nd Apr 2008, 11:50
There shouldn't be a lot of combat in the game period. That's not what Tomb Raider is.

I personally thought Lara was just being smart by climbing out of the way and shooting. When you're alone miles and miles away from any help, the last thing you need is an injury. Why put yourself at risk?

However, I don't mind melee combat being an option, I just don't want it to be the only option, i.e., you can only use melee combat in this fight because the programmers have decided you have to use it (like the AD requirement in Anniversary.) Of course, if there's a logic behind (like lost weapons or lack of ammo) that's another thing, but the ability to defeat an enemy in more than one way ups the replay value big time.

Werner Von Croy
2nd Apr 2008, 11:56
If I want hand-to-hand combat I will play Mortal Kombat, in Tomb Raider I wanna SHOOT

Mangar The Dark
2nd Apr 2008, 12:28
There should definitely be the ability for both hand-to-hand combat and shooting, I agree with the OP. That's not to say I want a LOT of combat, but when there IS combat (and you know there will be), it would be nice to have the choice. I remember the combat system in Indiana Jones & The Emperor's Tomb, which ended up being more fun than simply running and gunning. You could pick up any item lying nearby, and whack your enemy with it. It would be fun if TR used a system like that. It always did seem a bit stupid to be standing two feet away from someone, shooting them with countless rounds of ammunition, when you could just as easily shove them off the ledge.

Tomb-Dude
2nd Apr 2008, 20:06
IN underworld is is going to do hand to hand combat as we know which is good if we want to get close and personal but mainly Tomb Raider has been about the guns and shoot the bad guys, who also have guns.

But like Werner said if i want to play a fighting game i will play Mortal Kombat.

Mate
2nd Apr 2008, 20:41
Yes. I definitely think the same way. It's just that I forgot to mention it in my first post. My FAVOURITE thing of TR games are the guns of course, i love them and i know im going to stick to them all along the game..but as some of you said, it would be great to have thousands of options to defeat enemies. And that it is stupid stand shooting bullets and bullets to a sigle man IS EXACTLY WHAT I FEEL. I want to underestimate them some times...haha

TDK
3rd Apr 2008, 20:30
i would luv to see tht its lara croft and she should do tht

BurialGown
4th Apr 2008, 19:01
HAhaHA! And you suppose, if Lara was a REAL living person, she could kill a badass guy or a tiger with her bare hands ... NO WAY! Uzi's, Shotgun, Pistols ect ... Forever :p :thumbsup:

Mangar The Dark
4th Apr 2008, 19:21
HAhaHA! And you suppose, if Lara was a REAL living person, she could kill a badass guy or a tiger with her bare hands ... NO WAY!


Oh come on, since when was TR about realism? If she were a "REAL living person" do you think she could climb the way she does? Could she hang for unlimited lengths of time? Could she leap over bears? Could she carry unlimited ammo for her pistols? Doubtful.

TR games are about fun, not realism, and we all know that in action movies and games, it's always possible for the hero to knock out a bad guy with a good solid punch. Why couldn't Lara? Want a bit more realism anyway? Ok, she could shove a villain off of a high ledge and kill him that way.

Fickji
4th Apr 2008, 20:08
Oh come on, since when was TR about realism? If she were a "REAL living person" do you think she could climb the way she does? Could she hang for unlimited lengths of time? Could she leap over bears? Could she carry unlimited ammo for her pistols? Doubtful.

TR games are about fun, not realism, and we all know that in action movies and games, it's always possible for the hero to knock out a bad guy with a good solid punch. Why couldn't Lara? Want a bit more realism anyway? Ok, she could shove a villain off of a high ledge and kill him that way.

A shoving button. YES I want to see a shoving button. Get close to the enemy so Lara can shove them off cliffs or onto the ground to shoot them a multitude of times. And then they can retaliate by kicking her legs out from under her just to make it interesting.

Optional combat, yes. Combat when they take guns away and she's left bare handed, yes. Adranaline dodge type thing that forces you to do it to every single enemy NO.

Realistic graphics w/ realistic athletic abilities and combat YES. Realistic to life in the sense one bullet kills her or she falls over cause someone punched her NO.

SmartCookie1035
4th Apr 2008, 20:28
I'm inclined to agree with you, but I must say that hand-to-hand combat in AOD was HORRIBLE, and WAY too slow.

LisaB1962
5th Apr 2008, 14:17
Execution is key. If they include hand to hand, it had better be a very responsive system--I'm talking DMC responsive. When I want Lara to move, I want her to move. I don't want to wait for some silly animation to finish. :mad2:

Miss. Croft
6th Apr 2008, 02:44
There shouldn't be a lot of combat in the game period. That's not what Tomb Raider is.

I personally thought Lara was just being smart by climbing out of the way and shooting. When you're alone miles and miles away from any help, the last thing you need is an injury. Why put yourself at risk?

However, I don't mind melee combat being an option, I just don't want it to be the only option, i.e., you can only use melee combat in this fight because the programmers have decided you have to use it (like the AD requirement in Anniversary.) Of course, if there's a logic behind (like lost weapons or lack of ammo) that's another thing, but the ability to defeat an enemy in more than one way ups the replay value big time.

I totally agree. I dont want Lara to fight a boss of somekind, using combat, only because thats the only way to kill it. As you said, if there is a lack of ammo or no weapons, then, yes, combat would be ideal. :D

Mate
6th Apr 2008, 20:30
Yes, that's true, we want various ways to solve problems and defeat enemies, not to be trapped in a single way. Having no hand to hand combat is to put a limit to our possibilities as gamers and freedom to our character. Gamers must decide what they do. Each of us should be able to make THIS game, HIS/HER game.

OH! and about the realism of the game...come on, if we want realism we would have stuck with Angel of Darkness, which undoubtedly IS the more REALISTIC after all...but..it was a completely mess.

maybe we dont expect a great combatant lara like a ninja or something, but at least it would be nice to have the punches and kicks from the AoD but in a much faster way..

NEW MOVES IMPROVE GAMEPLAY. That´s the key. That makes for me, a game atractive.

NightRain'06
9th Apr 2008, 04:32
You know, I was playing Uncharted demo today. Yes, shame on me that I still don't have the full game. Tsk tsk.. :o :eek:

After being tired of enemies shooting at me, I ran up to some and on one of them, performed a drop kick and the idea hit me. Since Legend borrowed other elements from other games, they could borrow Drake's moves. Well, I mean a more refined and elegant(?) fight system for her. Elegant meaning utilizing her gymnastics in some way in an offensive and defensive manner if possible. :D Then again, could that be too much ?

Or they could simply input a similar Kit Yun ( Jet Li ) combat system from Rise to Honor game. Maybe not.

Honestly, in order for Lara's fight system to work in TRU, respectively, the human enemies' AI have to improve to the level or maybe beyond Uncharted's and become tougher and there must be more of them to a reasonable extent.

That's what I enjoyed about Uncharted, just wailing on an enemy whenever I felt like doing that.

LisaB1962
9th Apr 2008, 12:10
What if they use the button system from Heavenly Sword for a super kill? NOT THE QTE series like boss fights---you know I despise those---but during a fight once you'd completed enough combos you could press "O" and get a slick animation of a superkill.

Mangar The Dark
9th Apr 2008, 14:29
What if they use the button system from Heavenly Sword for a super kill? NOT THE QTE series like boss fights---you know I despise those---but during a fight once you'd completed enough combos you could press "O" and get a slick animation of a superkill.

Hmmmm.... I'm not familiar with Heavenly Sword, but "super kills" sound like they may be overly violent for a TR game. I don't want it to become like Mortal Kombat where we see Lara ripping the enemy's spine out or anything. Not that I'm so opposed to violence in games, but that sort of thing just doesn't gel with the tone of the TR series. But again, I never played Heavenly Sword, so maybe the image I'm getting in my mind is all wrong.

Laionidas
9th Apr 2008, 15:09
There shouldn't be a lot of combat in the game period. That's not what Tomb Raider is.

I personally thought Lara was just being smart by climbing out of the way and shooting. When you're alone miles and miles away from any help, the last thing you need is an injury. Why put yourself at risk?

However, I don't mind melee combat being an option, I just don't want it to be the only option, i.e., you can only use melee combat in this fight because the programmers have decided you have to use it (like the AD requirement in Anniversary.) Of course, if there's a logic behind (like lost weapons or lack of ammo) that's another thing, but the ability to defeat an enemy in more than one way ups the replay value big time.

Yep, in modern times even a well trained girl, or guy, will prefer her/his akimbo pistols with infinite ammo over hand to hand combat when facing some ancient masonary giant. Just think of SWAT teams; they always fight in CQB, yet they still prefer firearms.

I do think Lara should have a (utility) knife. Not necessarily for combat,.. but it just makes no sense. If I'd know I would be dangling from ropes on mountains and fighting badguys, a knife would be the first piece of equipement I'd pick. Gameplay wise she could use it for tasks such as cutting ropes or prying mechanisms.

LisaB1962
9th Apr 2008, 17:31
Hmmmm.... I'm not familiar with Heavenly Sword, but "super kills" sound like they may be overly violent for a TR game. I don't want it to become like Mortal Kombat where we see Lara ripping the enemy's spine out or anything. Not that I'm so opposed to violence in games, but that sort of thing just doesn't gel with the tone of the TR series. But again, I never played Heavenly Sword, so maybe the image I'm getting in my mind is all wrong.

I does sound violent, doesn't it? That's just what they're called. HS really isn't that violent visually, but I digress. I wouldn't want Lara doing anything bloody violent anyway, but some slick martial arts moves that put guys out of commission would be cool.

Laionidas
9th Apr 2008, 19:06
I does sound violent, doesn't it? That's just what they're called. HS really isn't that violent visually, but I digress. I wouldn't want Lara doing anything bloody violent anyway, but some slick martial arts moves that put guys out of commission would be cool.

I concur, Lara is a lady not a psychopath!

Mangar The Dark
9th Apr 2008, 19:50
I concur, Lara is a lady not a psychopath!

Well, she DID murder those museum security guards in TR3, and the employees at VCI.... so it's up for debate. ;)

Mate
10th Apr 2008, 02:47
I totally agree with Lisa B. I wouldnt like those killing moves you mention, lara doesnt kill for pleasure, its something she HAS to do to get what she wants, which is always for a good cause, the idea of these special finishers sounds to me a bit violent too, and thats not what i want. I want to have complete control of lara all the time, and dont want to sit down and watch how "she" finishes with MY enemies by her own.

You got too far with it. now THAT would be something TR definately in not. It would be too much. But I still want more combat than in the previous games. but not that much.

Fickji
10th Apr 2008, 03:13
Sensible story driven combat thats just as non linear as the rest of the level. Avoid them, clime up and shoot them, shoot them face to face, push and kick them.

No FINISH HIM mortal kombat allowed.

(and I thought those hint/ingame scenes in anniversary where rude and outlandish, like the last cog waterfall)

NightRain'06
10th Apr 2008, 05:59
Raider Kombat !!! :D

Actually, since Legend introduced the magnetic grapple line and Anniversary had the rope grapple line, it reminded me of Scorpion from Mortal Kombat. I'd just mess around, throwing at the mercenaries in Legend because the magnetic attaches to their armor vests, you know ? :lol:

I'd also say out loud at that point, "Get over here !"

Too bad there was no uppercut ! [Wow.. I'm mature.. Hehe..]


Ahem.... moving on..

LisaB1962
10th Apr 2008, 11:38
I'm the only one whose played Heavenly Sword? Interesting.

It's mostly a GOW clone, except much less violent, and Nariko is actually more responsive than Kratos. But the REAL FUN is playing as Kai shooting arrows with the aftertouch. I want a whole game of that. :D HS a short game, and definitely worth renting. :thumbsup:

I'm not sure I would say Lara kills "for a good cause." The story was never truly fleshed out in the old games, so while Lara did save the world from psychopaths, that part did seem more like a happy coincidence while Lara went on her merry way shooting everything that got between her and what she wanted.

Now she's looking for purely selfish and personal reasons---really, who made it her business to muck up with Amanda and Rutledge's plans? They're only the "bad guys" because folks are shooting at Lara because she's trying to steal something from them. :whistle:

Lara is very morally ambiguous. I think it's interesting how people cast her as victim, heroine, thief, sociopath depending on how they want to view her.

And perhaps that's the secret to her success?

JordG
10th Apr 2008, 12:30
In TRL I Did Like The Combat It Was Alright Would Of Been Better If There Were A Bit More Techniques, What I Think They Should Do In Underworld Is Increase The Options Of The Battle Like Give Her A 360 Round Kick To The Componants Head To Take Them Down Add In A Few Jab Crosses N A Push Away Kick, Shove But Not To Over Do It Cause That Will Just End Up Pointless Of Lara And Will End Up Mortal Kombat Style As We Do Know Her For Her Beautiful Dual Pistols All Im Saying Just Add A Bit More To The Combat N Let Her Over Power Her Componant So There's A Bit More Of Selection, I Wouldn't Mind If They Added In A Lil' Handy Knife That Would Fit In A Little Pocket Of Her Boot:)

Mate
10th Apr 2008, 19:44
All Jord has said, is exactly what i mean, and i agree with all. Anyone else? (vote with a "YES" if so)

Fickji
10th Apr 2008, 23:40
Everything but the knife. It just doesn't sound tomb raidery. Besides, if she can pick up objects from off the ground than why would she need a knife?

Besides hitting people in the head is more fun with sticks, rocks and pipes:D


It also makes it more challenging to the game without the knife thingy. And she's never needed it before.

But I would like to see the Larson kick more often if well executed.

Mate
11th Apr 2008, 03:06
i dont get your point. what does it have to do her ability to pick up things from the floor with needing a knife or not. Still...I think the knife's OK. It is more likely to come handly in lara's adventures than the graple for example. As someone said, if it was me going on those adventures the first thing id stick to would be knife..maybe even more than a gun...

Mangar The Dark
11th Apr 2008, 12:10
I wouldnt like those killing moves you mention ...
You got too far with it. now THAT would be something TR definately in not. It would be too much.


I'm not sure if you were talking to me, but just to clarify, I am also against those sorts of moves. Maybe you misunderstood my post?:confused:

Mate
12th Apr 2008, 17:32
maybe I did. If so, im sorry. The fact is that those finals would ruin TR

Fickji
12th Apr 2008, 21:38
i dont get your point. what does it have to do her ability to pick up things from the floor with needing a knife or not. Still...I think the knife's OK. It is more likely to come handly in lara's adventures than the graple for example. As someone said, if it was me going on those adventures the first thing id stick to would be knife..maybe even more than a gun...

If she has a knife than why does she need to pick things up to use in a fight? She'd still need a gun to shoot something she can't get to.

Besides shooting people is Lara. I can even say hitting people and jumping off their heads is Lara. But cutting people up like she's in a Friday the 13th movie? NO!!!!!!:eek:

And it also goes back to those killing moves that other posters have been talking about. shudder

Other characters that use sharp objects: Leon Kennedy from RE4, Bloodrayne, Snake from Metal Gear Solid
Any others?

LisaB1962
12th Apr 2008, 22:01
Let me clarify since I'm the one who brought it up:

I am NOT encouraging any type of ultra-violent or gory combat for Lara. I merely thought being able to trigger a slick animation during a fight could be fun. A martial arts combo for extra damage maybe, or the ability to vault up to higher ground in a cool way. Nothing that takes away the ability to play the game yourself since it's self-triggered or nothing to make you think "ewww!" Just some cool move.

(Of course, none of this would have happened had I remembered the correct name for it in Heavenly Sword: superstyle, not superkill.)

james987654321
12th Apr 2008, 22:23
I agree, lara should put down her guns for once n show us what she can really do :cool:

Mate
13th Apr 2008, 00:54
I agree, lara should put down her guns for once n show us what she can really do :cool:

veryy niceeeee!!! That was my point from the beginning

rabid metro
13th Apr 2008, 02:02
In TRL I Did Like The Combat It Was Alright Would Of Been Better If There Were A Bit More Techniques, What I Think They Should Do In Underworld Is Increase The Options Of The Battle Like Give Her A 360 Round Kick To The Componants Head To Take Them Down Add In A Few Jab Crosses N A Push Away Kick, Shove But Not To Over Do It Cause That Will Just End Up Pointless Of Lara And Will End Up Mortal Kombat Style As We Do Know Her For Her Beautiful Dual Pistols All Im Saying Just Add A Bit More To The Combat N Let Her Over Power Her Componant So There's A Bit More Of Selection, I Wouldn't Mind If They Added In A Lil' Handy Knife That Would Fit In A Little Pocket Of Her Boot
sorry, i couldn't read this but ... feel free to use the "periods". :cool:
..................................................................................................



...Now she's looking for purely selfish and personal reasons---really, who made it her business to muck up with Amanda and Rutledge's plans? They're only the "bad guys" because folks are shooting at Lara because she's trying to steal something from them...
amanda was always selfish and together with rutland they were unambiguously evil.

Lara's combat skills in underworld will be much more extensive than ever before.
kicking esses will only be one of her many combo moves ...
:cool:

LisaB1962
13th Apr 2008, 13:47
Unambiguously evil? Nah, can't see that. I don't see Amanda as selfish either. I mean, it's her discovery really. She's been working on it for years, then Lara decides screw it up.

Don't get me wrong, they were OK villians and all, but let's not cast Lara as some holy person only looking for the good of mankind either. She's got her own agenda as well, and it doesn't involve feeding orphans or curing cancer. :D

rg_001100
15th Apr 2008, 06:18
Her agenda was finding her mother wasn't it?
(TRL, Nepal)

Amanda and Rutland evil? I dunno.
At the end of Bolivia it seems just like:
I've got guns, you've got mercs, fight!
without too much reason, just showing up to the same place....

Hand to hand combat would be nice.
I felt guilty just shooting the MPs in nevada TR3 who used clubs, just running away from them + shooting them... it was nasty, whereas hand to hand would make it "fairer", i suppose.

Fickji
15th Apr 2008, 16:40
to post or not to post... ok I will

Amanda and Rutland weren't evil but they were selfish. Lara was just a tad too obsessed and should have taken a step back to evaluate the situation. But she wasn't as selfish as they were personal reasons to do what she did.

And its not Amanda's discovery its Lara's as Lara trumpts the "I found it first" being 8 yrs old when actually found.

It just seemed that if they had worked together they could have accomplished more. And in the end neither got what they wanted.


"You idiot, you ruined everything" said by Amanda.

Anarae
27th Apr 2008, 15:13
I liked the combat moved in Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness. You had the option of shooting them, sneaking up on them and taking them out, or using kicks and punches. The sneaking up wasn't new because it was used in Chronicles with the chloroform and in knocking out the cook. Of course those were done in cutscenes.

The AOD combat moves would be great in Underworld. But I don't want it to have mass amounts of hand to hand combat. Like everyone said this is Tomb Raider not Mortal Kombat.