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View Full Version : Oh No.. Zip And Allistair..



LaraCroftRox
25th Mar 2008, 16:39
I have played a couple of area's of T.R Legend at my friends house and have noticed that Zip and Allistair are constantly talking, giving hints and ruining the sense of lonlieness in the tombs. Please tell me they're not in T.R.U? They so annoy me! :nut: :mad2: :nut: :mad2: :nut: :mad2: :nut: :mad2: :nut: :mad2: :nut: :mad2: :nut: :mad2:

LisaB1962
26th Mar 2008, 00:33
I believe they are in the game, however, I've yet to see a screenshot with the headset. So they may be relegated to cut scenes for story advancement.

rabid metro
26th Mar 2008, 04:29
... in all fairness, the overbearing presence of Zip and Alistair, in Legend, was intentional ...

it (overbearing) is not needed for Underworld.
:cool:

aussie500
26th Mar 2008, 09:14
Well you could always turn them off in the audio settings, you will still get them talking in the cutscenes.

POSSL
26th Mar 2008, 10:31
I believe they are in the game


NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

LisaB1962
26th Mar 2008, 11:45
... in all fairness, the overbearing presence of Zip and Alistair, in Legend, was intentional ...

it (overbearing) is not needed for Underworld.
:cool:

LOL. And I thought CD was out to make a good Tomb Raider game. You mean they were out to ruin it all along? :lol:

Rai
26th Mar 2008, 12:18
Zip and Alistair are in the game, but we have learned that they will be very much more in the background than they were in Legend. Lara will remain in isolation more during her adventures in TRU. Perhaps Lisa is correct in saying they will appear in cutscenes only. I can handle that. :)

Fickji
26th Mar 2008, 13:00
Maybe Lara just calls them every so often to help locate where she is or to research something.

Maybe there will also be a little side comment of them being to chatty so she's leaving the headset and just taking her cell phone if she needs them.

:D :D :D

Mangar The Dark
26th Mar 2008, 13:16
I'm not a huge fan of Zip and Alistair, but in all fairness, at least it gave Lara an opportunity to show some personality, and I assume that's partly why CD included them. In the previous games, she very rarely spoke or had any interaction with anyone other than shooting people. In Legend, she seemed a bit more fleshed out as character because we got to hear her more often.

So if she does have a headset in TRU, and talks to them OCCASIONALLY, I'm fine with that. I just don't want them solving puzzles for me, or cracking jokes in moments that should be tense.

Also, with the checkpoint system, it was often necessary to replay certain areas and listen to the same comments multiple times, which got very annoying. This is yet another reason why the game needs a proper manual save system.

LisaB1962
26th Mar 2008, 19:34
Agreed. I hate hearing the same thing over and over.

*voice offstage* You know you can just turn down the volume and not hear them at all.

D'oh! :mad2:

james987654321
27th Mar 2008, 03:25
I think they are ok, i didnt think they helped an awful lot and ruined the whole game. They were mainly there to chat to lara or to state the obvious. They should be optional e.g lara can contact them via headset to ask for assistance. I liked how lara actually conversed with other people and how you could hear her voice.

Mangar The Dark
27th Mar 2008, 12:56
They should be optional e.g lara can contact them via headset to ask for assistance.

Exactly. It should be like the RAD mode on the binoculars, or even like the journal in TRA-- if you get stuck, you can radio in to Zip and Alistair, and they can offer advice on how to proceed. I think that would be the perfect compromise.

Fickji
27th Mar 2008, 13:19
Just an interesting idea I had.

Tomb Raider AOD took its self too seriously.

So maybe the Zip/Alistar thing was an attempt to gain the light-hearted tomb raider gameplay back.

"It is the center of the evil coatrack empire." - My favorite non-Lara line.(possibly not quoted right)

Not that we needed to hear it every two seconds but it gave the game more of a comical approach. Especially with a very serious ending and learning about mother thing.

digifan
27th Mar 2008, 16:05
As far as I know, CD want to show Lara is a team player even though she is fairly much alone in her adventures. I agree with Lisa that Lara's support team should stay non interactive in the game and stay with cut scenes. I wonder if Winston will be back?

rabid metro
27th Mar 2008, 16:48
...And I thought CD was out to make a good Tomb Raider game. You mean they were out to ruin it all along?...

deep breaths ... the franchise was already ruined when CD came along to save it.
Zip and Alistair served various purposes: move the story along, give Lara character, and so on, and where they were overbearing, IMO, was stating the obvious.
in the act of restoring the franchise CD did not want to (completely) assume that end-users would pick up on in-game events, so Zip and Alistair made it obviously obvious (i.e. overbearing) ...

you see its like this ... ... ... ohh, nevermind.

let's not get all twisted up into our own doom-and-gloom fantasies.
the Legacy of Kain series shows that CD likes to tell a good story.
TRL, TRA and the development of TRU show that they listen to the fans.
i think it is safe (and easy actually) to predict that TRU will be better than its predecessors in terms of storytelling and how that is handled ...
:cool:

Game Weasel
27th Mar 2008, 20:44
I think Zip and Allistair had there moments, but they did make some things to easy.

I like them more when they just give a little commentary in what otherwise could be a dull moment. For example, when Lara was going through the King Arthur museum, their commentary there was absolutely priceless. Listening to Allistair gripe about the inaccuracies and Zip harass him for it was great.

Lines like "It's the center of the evil coat rack empire" were great but sometimes they spoke at inoppurtune times and spoiled an other wise intense, engrossing moment.

I'd like there to be a nice middle ground. Playing TR:A I actually had times when I felt a bit dreary because there was so little life to it. I felt like I was going through the motions. On the other hand, in TR:L the lads would pipe up at some of the most bizarre times. I'd like to see their commentary cut back, but not done away with entirely. And as someone else suggested, I'd prefer they not automatically give hints.

Make it so that if you -want- the help you can radio them, but they don't just flat out tell you how to solve every puzzle.

LaraLara
28th Mar 2008, 00:48
OMG I just got a great idea... she could wear a codec and then dial in to a frequency to ask for help/chat.

P.S. - she needs to hire snake :D

"I am still in a dream, Snake Eater!" lol I love that 60's-esque theme song

LisaB1962
28th Mar 2008, 11:53
let's not get all twisted up into our own doom-and-gloom fantasies.
the Legacy of Kain series shows that CD likes to tell a good story.
TRL, TRA and the development of TRU show that they listen to the fans.
i think it is safe (and easy actually) to predict that TRU will be better than its predecessors in terms of storytelling and how that is handled ...
:cool:

It's not a question of gloom and doom; it's merely a fact. Legend was not a good Tomb Raider game. Maybe it was a good game, but I bought it expecting TOMB RAIDER, not an action game starring Lara Croft. I expected huge levels I got to explore, puzzles that might frustrate me, and increasingly interesting and difficult enemies. What I got was drive by scenery, straight pipe levels with an Exit sign, and merc-a-palooza. Oh, and two guys chattering in my ear spoiling whatever ambiance and mystery the level might have had. :confused:

What went before didn't matter, what comes after doesn't matter. Legend is what Legend is, and despite the label on the front, it wasn't Tomb Raider. I judge each game on its own merits. Nobody gets "credit" for past accomplishments or penalized for failures, or vouchers for promising new games. I buy each game one at a time and that's how I judge them. ;)

LaraLara
28th Mar 2008, 19:59
I think TR:L was action oriented because not many people are interested in playing adventure puzzle games nowadays. Maybe it's just us newer generations, but I have to admit I found the long puzzle chambers in TR:A kind of boring.

james987654321
30th Mar 2008, 05:20
I think TR:L was action oriented because not many people are interested in playing adventure puzzle games nowadays. Maybe it's just us newer generations, but I have to admit I found the long puzzle chambers in TR:A kind of boring.

I agree, I think roaming tombs is fine but its good to take a break now and then and experience different things othewrwise the game may fizzle out and die from repetition, I really enjoyed legends slight stray from raiding and how more emphasis was put on urban locations eg.tokyo

LaraCroftRox
31st Mar 2008, 13:22
Thanx everyone i like the idea of them kinda being Lara's journel in T.R.A. :)

Xaander Le
1st Apr 2008, 08:09
OMG I just got a great idea... she could wear a codec and then dial in to a frequency to ask for help/chat.

P.S. - she needs to hire snake :D

"I am still in a dream, Snake Eater!" lol I love that 60's-esque theme song

That is a really good idea. That way you could call Alister and Zip for advice if you want to. Just as long as there are no mandatory codec sequences like in Metal Gear Solid.

On a side note, it would be funny if Lara could actually eavesdrop on Solid Snake's conversations by dialling a frequency from MGS, say 141.80 (Campbell's frequency in Metal Gear Solid 1) and then make comments that the player can hear but the other characters can't. But Solid Snake shouldn't actually be a character in Tomb Raider, unless Lara was a character in the new Metal Gear Solid.

Bampire
1st Apr 2008, 08:37
I know how you feel.. I cannot stand them, after growing up on the games, and being fully disgusted by Legend and Chronicles, for having Zip bicker in your ear.. Ugh, is it annoying.

Chris92
1st Apr 2008, 09:54
I really like the fact that Zip and Alistair are talking to Lara during the game:)
Its nice to get some help sometimes :p

JonSnow
1st Apr 2008, 18:08
The loneliness of tombs... the isolation... exploration and puzzle solving. THAT'S Tomb Raider!
Exploring tombs was boring? Are you sure you're playing the right game?

Those two buffoons in Legend were aggravating and USELESS. Since when did Lara need information on an ancient civilization? Her character development was born out of crashing in an airplane and surviving the Himalayan Mts. ALONE!!!!

Let me repeat that... A- L- O- N- E !!

Her mother died... Her father eventually lost... she sees herself as a LONER!
Just because they needed to fill screen time for Angelina Jolie doesn't mean the GAME has to follow the movie.

I'm fairly certain (he says with sarcasm) that the game PRECEDED the movie.

Or do you all want to see some hollywood pretty boy replace Winston?

Winston... safely looking after the mansion with ZERO contact from Lara while she's on her various missions...

ALONE...ALONE...ALONE...ALONE...ALONE...ALONE...ALONE...ALONE...ALONE

I'm having trouble reading some of these posts. New generation gamers? Go play your action-packed, chitter-chatter "LETS MAKE Laura MAKE TOAST" SIM-SILLY STUPIDITY

Leave the Tomb Raiding to those who appreciate puzzle solving and exploration. Does anyone recall the headlines of "AMAZING!" and "GENRE-DEFINING!" .... ? anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Why don't they make TR:U a first person shooter and REALLY dump Lara on her head? (more sarcasm for those of you who need it spelled out)
OR, OR... BETTER YET: have Lara running back and forth behind ever decreasing bunkers while an entire horde of aliens comes crashing down on her...
or stick her in any number of spaceships while the player tries to save all the humans on the surface and when all the humans are eaten then you can have the planet disappear in a total ALIEN FREAKOUT MODE IN SPACE.

No, really, the making toast thing in another thread, that's GOT to be the best idea YET!
After the toast, we can have Laura go shopping for dvds and then ... how about a pottery making class while she juggles four hundred pound sixteen hundred (F) degree kilns so that they don't land on the stray dogs and cats that will be caterwalling and baying in her ear on her new HANDSFREE WIRELESS DEVICE... DON'T FORGET THE PRODUCT PLACEMENT AND THE "I'M WITH STUPID T-REX T-SHIRT!!" After all, if we're going for an all new Lara, why not give her an all new uniform. Maybe some clear plastic platform heels with optional Go-Go Thigh Highs
and then
and then
:mad2: :nut: ****

JonSnow
1st Apr 2008, 18:23
I know for a fact that I typed Laura every time you see her name misspelled with a "u"
It did it here also. Some joker in this forum has it set to misspell her name?
How petty can you get.

rooboy_13
1st Apr 2008, 18:27
someone said earlier that they haven't seen the headset in pictures but in the screenshots you dont get a good look at her ears, and in the renders or whatever they are called she doesn't have guns, grapple or anything.

JonSnow
1st Apr 2008, 18:31
someone said earlier that they haven't seen the headset in pictures but in the screenshots you dont get a good look at her ears, and in the renders or whatever they are called she doesn't have guns, grapple or anything.

You've apparently missed the point of my entire rant.
No worries, I'm not surprised one bit...

Fickji
1st Apr 2008, 20:46
JonSnow your ideas are so coooool. They should make it a first person shooter and make her where funny t-shirts. And have Zip and Alister talk to her every second telling her to look at funny rocks and making interesting remarks about grass, AND Winston should be played by BRAD PITT.

And have it where she's fighting the terminator, predators, and aliens at the same time.

It would be the perfect game.



:D :D :D :D :D APRIL FOOOLS :D :D :D :D

Seriously isn't she suppose to be an archialogist and know about history and translate stuff herself. So why does she need Alister anyways. Makes him kind of a useless character.

I can see why she needs Zip for his tech side but not to monitor her entire trip. Why not just send in a miniture camera to scope things out. Besides She's not James Bond.

And we already know they don't like hights so they just should stop complaining. She's got a PDA let her just email them for advice.

SmartCookie1035
1st Apr 2008, 23:13
Lighten up! I loved Zip and Alister in Legend. It felt odd to go into Lara's library in Anniversary and not see Alister sitting at the desk. I think they compliment each oher so nicely, and their "input" and bickering is very amusing, if not just a little bit overdone.

So there. For the record, I hope they're back in Underworld. :)

Imaginary Whisk
2nd Apr 2008, 01:18
I'm ok with being able to have them but turn them off at will. Anyone who's played Dead Rising remember Otis? xD

On the topic of Zip & Allister... maybe we'll luck out & one of the unlockable outfits(assuming they still have different ones to chose from) could be a Zip or Allister costume. :D

fael097
2nd Apr 2008, 03:51
these 2 dudes are part of lara's team now... they should stay

JonSnow
3rd Apr 2008, 16:17
Lighten up! I loved Zip and Alister in Legend. It felt odd to go into Lara's library in Anniversary and not see Alister sitting at the desk. I think they compliment each oher so nicely, and their "input" and bickering is very amusing, if not just a little bit overdone.

So there. For the record, I hope they're back in Underworld. :)

It felt odd for you to go into the Library in Anniversary and not see them? It felt like an invasion of interlopers; after an entire series of games to find them in the mansion when I played Legend, I tried shooting them for the first half hour after I recovered the pistols.
These two goons are nothing but feckless, freeloading freaks whose only purpose is to take up lines of code which could be used in far more practical ways. They're a waste of time, energy and effort on the part of the game designers. They're like milk-producing glands on male cattle.

The word "team" and the name "Lara Croft" go together like grape jelly and crude oil.

So for the record, Zip-It and Allesnotgutte should be given their walking papers and let Lara do her thing... ALONE.

Mangar The Dark
3rd Apr 2008, 17:46
These two goons are nothing but feckless, freeloading freaks whose only purpose is to take up lines of code which could be used in far more practical ways. They're a waste of time, energy and effort on the part of the game designers. They're like milk-producing glands on male cattle.

The word "team" and the name "Lara Croft" go together like grape jelly and crude oil.

So for the record, Zip-It and Allesnotgutte should be given their walking papers and let Lara do her thing... ALONE.

So, just to be sure I'm understanding, are you saying you prefer when Lara isn't working with Zip and Alistair?:lol:

pinkangel07
3rd Apr 2008, 17:50
I feel as if I'm the only one who liked Zip and Allister....

Or it could be that I'm the biggest wimp ever and didn't want to be alone and loved hearing them argue, ESPECIALLY in the water labyrinth under the King Arthur museum...thing.

Mangar The Dark
3rd Apr 2008, 18:14
I feel as if I'm the only one who liked Zip and Allister....

You're not the only one. Quite a few people liked them. I didn't dislike them. I could take 'em or leave 'em. Sometimes their comments added to the experience, sometimes they made it a bit too hokey when it should have been tense.

Actually, I just went back to replay one of the older TR games yesterday, and it seemed almost TOO quiet, to the point of being a bit dull. Just listening to the "tap,tap,tap" of Lara's feet as ran across the level...

pinkangel07
3rd Apr 2008, 19:18
Yeah, I agree. TR 3 gets a little too quiet all the time, which is why I hardly ever play it, but it is still my favorite classic.

LisaB1962
4th Apr 2008, 11:38
I like the idea of Zip and Alistair. I don't think it's a stretch at all for Lara to have a team. Getting in and out of remote areas, research on the fly--it only makes sense that she has people working for her.

However, I did not enjoy the constant banter at all or the way they were far too helpful. A little bit at the beginning or the end of a level is fine, or during a cutscene is all I need.

Mangar The Dark
4th Apr 2008, 12:34
I like the idea of Zip and Alistair. I don't think it's a stretch at all for Lara to have a team. Getting in and out of remote areas, research on the fly--it only makes sense that she has people working for her.

Agreed. I also liked how they helped the narrative. In the previous games, you never really got any information about what you were looking at or where you were. For example, in TR4 there's a map room in one of the tombs (it's been a while, so I forget the name... I think it was the same tomb that had the bull). It would have been interesting to hear a bit more about what that map was, yet it would be silly to have Lara talking to herself, so the idea of Zip & Alistair is good, as it allows the player to get some background about what they're seeing and doing. Without them, we would have missed a lot of the details about Excalibur and various other legends in TRL.

LaraCroftRox
4th Apr 2008, 14:33
Ok everybody, (especially JonSnow :) ) I still hate Zip & Allastair but if there in it then shall we all agree that they're talking is Minimal? :scratch:

Jezyk
4th Apr 2008, 14:39
Oh man I've played through Legend 3 times (or 6 if you count the time trials) and only now on my 4th playthrough I got to know that you can turn down the dialogs in sound options -> no Zip & Alister during gameplay:D

Ms.Croft.Legend
27th Apr 2008, 10:36
I can assure people who do like Zip and Allistair, they are not the only ones.

Me, personally, I love Zip and Allistair! They are perfect comic relief when you're stuck in tombs only listening to dripping water. I loved the little bickering they did among each other and I have to admit I loved it when they were like 'OMG! Lara that was awesome!' Makes me feel like I am awesome. I also loved lines like 'It's the center of the evil coatrack empire' and 'It's called coinscidence - pft, funny name for a sword' and of course most of the conversation in England. It just relieved me and made it twice as fun.

Although I will admit and can perfectly understand other peoples' points of view yet still understand others. I can understand how many of you find them annoying to no end. I do too sometimes, I do also feel that some of their commentary is completely unnessary and that it can be very annoying and can completely kill the moment. I found it annoying how they kept giving away hints on the very few puzzles making them easy - thus making the game less enjoyable. Also the fact that they were FOREVER talking began to tick me off. And sometimes the lame jokes got on my nerves too.:mad2: I think they should stop talking all the time and Lara should ask them for help - they shouldnt tell her.

On the topic of points of view. I can understand people who have been with Lara from the start (sadly I wasnt because of my age but I have been with her for a while now) will find it annoying how there was suddenly an appearance of these two geeks who started to tell you how to do your job!
- but then remember the point of view for new players, I have had a front view of it (Not me, my friend) I introduced my friend to Lara Croft after I bought Legend and she was instantly hooked. But since she was new she wasnt ready for the scariness of the music and isolation so the fact that there was these two nice guys adding humour and relief really helped her through the idea and made her love it.

Then on the topic of JonSnow (sorry I cannot resist) I almost completely agree to your rant - which you are entitled too. Although i disagree on calling them idiots. They made the game very fun with their jokes and help. And plus I do agree with you on your idea. Making 'Laura' make toast and save animals and be a first person shooter is just stupid. It is a joke that they would do things like that and if Eidos starts going that direction i will strap myself to their computers to stop them!

All in all thats my post - Sorry it is so damn long! - but in conclusion, I agree with everyone, Zip and Allistair should have there talking decreased but under no circumstances done away with! They are with her now and I am very attached to the pair. Plus they thickened the story line (King Athur fable - I addored it and was thouroughly interested) and showed that Lara had a personality, and wasnt a bloodthirsty killer, and that could make people fall in love with her more. I certainly did.

I hope i showed some insight :scratch: So if you couldnt stand to read all that - I love my pair, KEEP THEM! :p

mimi90
27th Apr 2008, 10:44
I think they are ok, i didnt think they helped an awful lot and ruined the whole game. They were mainly there to chat to lara or to state the obvious. They should be optional e.g lara can contact them via headset to ask for assistance. I liked how lara actually conversed with other people and how you could hear her voice.

I liked Zip and Alister... the way their script was written was really witty and clever... although at times they could be a tad annoying... I'd like to see them in TRU throughout the entire game... not just in cutscenes, It's a bit monontonus having Lara not talking to anyone...