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m72
23rd Mar 2008, 12:46
I want her back in DX 3, her naivety and innocence is like a ray of sunshine in the grim world of Deus Ex which is a nice change, not to mention she's the hottest woman in DX:IW:D . Anyone agrees with me?

Kevyne-Shandris
23rd Mar 2008, 13:40
I want her back in DX 3, her naivety and innocence is like a ray of sunshine in the grim world of Deus Ex which is a nice change, not to mention she's the hottest woman in DX:IW:D . Anyone agrees with me?

Deus Ex is suppose to be gritty. Why the towns were dirty and it was always night. It's a classic cyberpunk video game.

DX2 was too futuristic, and violated the whole DX canon.

jordan_a
23rd Mar 2008, 15:07
Concerning the settings I don't agree. Seattle, Cairo, Trier and Liberty Island were microscopic (:D ) but well designed. If you allude to Antartica and the portal thing it sucks I agree.

Lucifer
23rd Mar 2008, 18:47
I want her back in DX 3, her naivety and innocence is like a ray of sunshine in the grim world of Deus Ex which is a nice change, not to mention she's the hottest woman in DX:IW:D . Anyone agrees with me?

I know why you want her back cause you love her and want to do some :lol:

m72
24th Mar 2008, 03:21
No........... not that way. I just like her existence because she's like the anti-thesis of the Cyberpunk world. it's just like when i see a disney movie i'd like to see someone so cruel that she/he kills millions or rip someone in half. It's just that IMO refreshing to see someone like that in Deus Ex world.

dimaf1985
24th Mar 2008, 08:04
I disagree. Its out of place . That sort of juxtaposition is usually inserted to reflect an internal struggle that the main character is experiencing. That suits Disney movies, like you cited, but not DX. Thats why Alex D in DX2 was so forgettable. The whole way through, he didnt know who he was or what he was supposed to be doing. In DX1, JC had a defined code of morale that he felt he needed to follow, and made choices based around that code, rather than around some journey of self-discovery, like Alex. So, whereas Alex relied on that symbol of hope (Klara) to guide him on his journey, JC relied only on himself as a guide. In cyberpunk, concepts such as hope are only fleeting at best, and seemingly only as close as the nearest horizon. That sort of tone of desperate isolation was portrayed perfectly in DX1 and the writers for DX3 have to figure out a way to back to that.

gamer0004
24th Mar 2008, 12:33
Nah I liked her too. Those people exist! Even in 2052 (or 2071) we won't only have grumpy old men.

IceBallz
24th Mar 2008, 12:49
I disagree. Its out of place . That sort of juxtaposition is usually inserted to reflect an internal struggle that the main character is experiencing. That suits Disney movies, like you cited, but not DX. Thats why Alex D in DX2 was so forgettable. The whole way through, he didnt know who he was or what he was supposed to be doing. In DX1, JC had a defined code of morale that he felt he needed to follow, and made choices based around that code, rather than around some journey of self-discovery, like Alex. So, whereas Alex relied on that symbol of hope (Klara) to guide him on his journey, JC relied only on himself as a guide. In cyberpunk, concepts such as hope are only fleeting at best, and seemingly only as close as the nearest horizon. That sort of tone of desperate isolation was portrayed perfectly in DX1 and the writers for DX3 have to figure out a way to back to that.

Why not set our character as like a MAN IN BLACK and from there get into story again.

dimaf1985
24th Mar 2008, 21:19
Nah I liked her too. Those people exist! Even in 2052 (or 2071) we won't only have grumpy old men.

Of course they exist. Thats what made certain apartment buildings in NY, Paris, and Hong Kong so mysterious everytime you came across a door with a steel bar texture. For instance, in Hong Kong, in the courtyard with Tong's compound and the temple, theres a corner with an arched entrance to an apartment building, but no actual door. It made you wonder if there were good people living there that needed to be protected from evils like Bob Page. It gave your missions purpose, but it was fleeting. That's cyberpunk. You dont need to make people like that main characters to know they exist. I dunno maybe im reading too much into it but i just feel like DX3 has to do all the things that DX1 did so well, and that cyberpunk feel to it is essential.

SageSavage
24th Mar 2008, 21:41
Even in 2052 (or 2071) we won't only have grumpy old men.Granted I'll make it so far I'll be one of em. :cool:

m72
25th Mar 2008, 12:35
No, i'm not saying that Klara is a symbol of hope. and you do misinterpret what i type earlier. I also like to see a Disney movie which have a character like say a psychopath that kills everyone violently in the film, in an otherwise a jolly happy sunshine-spewing-from every orifice film,just the same with DX 3 where i want to see someone that can maintain her optimism despite living in a broken world. not because her optimism gives a reason for Alex to fight, it just for me feels nice to see someone so out of place like that, even though i might be up to no good. Okay if you have issue with her being a girl, then bring either her or Sam Carter back. Though i still prefer Klara

Cap
25th Mar 2008, 14:48
this thread needs pictures!!:rolleyes:

dimaf1985
26th Mar 2008, 09:03
Why would you want a element in the game-world that is the antithesis of the themes? There has to be a reason for it. If just because it's "nice" that's just as frivolous as an Easter Egg insterted by the devs. Remember, in the grim, broken world of DX, YOU are the one that is out of place because YOU are the one making choices for the greater good, to make this world better. Thats why JC was the good guy.

Kevyne-Shandris
26th Mar 2008, 12:16
Hope JC will remain a good guy, too. Clint Eastwood good maybe (a troubled soul, but not as troubled and dark as Batman), but does the right thing because someone has to give a damn.

Tech Sergeant Kaplan
26th Mar 2008, 13:03
i dont think we need any of the noobs ahem trainees or new characters that were introduced in IW just lets forget IW ever happened...:o

dimaf1985
26th Mar 2008, 20:27
i dont think we need any of the noobs ahem trainees or new characters that were introduced in IW just lets forget IW ever happened...:o

What's IW ? Never heard of it. Don't know what youre talking about

Wgibbsw
26th Mar 2008, 20:32
I won't turn this into one of those threads but Invisible War was still a good game, regardless of it's relation to DX1 :rolleyes:

dimaf1985
26th Mar 2008, 20:41
I won't turn this into one of those threads but Invisible War was still a good game, regardless of it's relation to DX1 :rolleyes:

Well if you didnt want to turn this into one of those threads why would you make that comment. Anyways, yeah, most ppl say its not necessarily a bad game, STAND-ALONE. its a decent console game, with a rehashed sci-fi story. Decent for a couple of run-throughs, in fact. But the fact that it has any association with the DX franchise is a disgrace.

m72
27th Mar 2008, 13:04
Uuh, I don't think that JC was a good guy, he just do what he believes is right. there is a difference between doing what you think is right and doing it for the greater good, in three of DX's ending, who can say that one of the ending is anything resembling "doing it for the greater good", you either blow the world back to the stone age, become a tyrant, or just giving the world to another secret organization. while all of the endings has positive side, in a general sense do you do anything that makes the world say (i'll say this because i don't know anymore example if you know please tell me) Disney good where everyone is happy. No you do not, you choose the lesser between three evils, you do what you think is right, example: i choose the Illuminati ending which i think is doing the most good to the world, i'm sure someone out there prefer Helios' or Tong's Ending (unless everyone is choosing Illuminati Ending, in that case i take my words back).

P.S. While i think DX:IW is far lesser to DX, i still play it from start to finish 3 times( while nothing compared to my 12 DX playthroughs) i still think it's a fairly decent game

Draco1979
30th Mar 2008, 01:06
Sorry I cant lie if I had the chance to do her I would totally would. I think this topic is an interesting one because one person like her because she played a role that is not sopost to be there in a world that is grim and depressing. And why does this game have to be labeled cyberpunk and why does it have to follow the cyberpunk label rules. If it did then it would be boring because it now become a cookie cutter theme.

dimaf1985
30th Mar 2008, 06:59
Sorry I cant lie if I had the chance to do her I would totally would. I think this topic is an interesting one because one person like her because she played a role that is not sopost to be there in a world that is grim and depressing. And why does this game have to be labeled cyberpunk and why does it have to follow the cyberpunk label rules. If it did then it would be boring because it now become a cookie cutter theme.

Hmm, well its a game, but its a work of literature too, if you consider the plot and themes separately from the rest. And in literature, there are genres. DX just happens to fall within the genre of cyberpunk, which has established rules and guidelines (read William Gibson's stuff). A theme is not the same as a genre, and DX1 represented that genre very effectively and authentically. And its precisely because the writers followed those literary guidelines that made the world so believable, rather than boring.

Draco1979
30th Mar 2008, 14:30
Hmm, well its a game, but its a work of literature too, if you consider the plot and themes separately from the rest. And in literature, there are genres. DX just happens to fall within the genre of cyberpunk, which has established rules and guidelines (read William Gibson's stuff). A theme is not the same as a genre, and DX1 represented that genre very effectively and authentically. And its precisely because the writers followed those literary guidelines that made the world so believable, rather than boring.

OK now if it just so happens to falls in the cyberpunk genre so be it but if some one only focuses on the rules and guide lines of one genre kinda limits the writers to just things that fall in the genre. Instead I hope the writers keep an open mind and write the best dam story they come up even if some of the story or a character or a few does not fit in the cookie cut model. I dont know about you but I seen a lot of the same movie just redone with different settings and characters and after awhile it gets old.

What made this series so different from they rest of the games was the story . For as the plot yes it has been done over and over but it was a game that had a story that made it different from just the rest of the games that you just go around killing people or creatures mindlessly

Now for Kara Sparks seeing how she was all innocent and all trust worthy from what gather from the post goes against what cyberpunk is all about so if that goes against the cookie cut model then it shouldnt be in there and limits the writers in what they can and can not put in.

m72
31st Mar 2008, 11:20
when you are talking about the Cyberpunk theme as a whole, i think that cyberpunk is more along the line of a guideline instead of a fixed law. The writer should be allowed to make improvements toward the theme as they see fit. So.. I happen to like Klara's character, is that so bad just because it is somewhat out of place? And who can say what Cyberpunk really is, all i know about it is it's a world with advanced technology where corporation is very powerful and computer technology can make anyone to become very powerful. Neuromancer did set the groundwork about Cyberpunk, but there are no rules set in stone about it.

dimaf1985
31st Mar 2008, 11:55
when you are talking about the Cyberpunk theme as a whole, i think that cyberpunk is more along the line of a guideline instead of a fixed law. The writer should be allowed to make improvements toward the theme as they see fit. So.. I happen to like Klara's character, is that so bad just because it is somewhat out of place? And who can say what Cyberpunk really is, all i know about it is it's a world with advanced technology where corporation is very powerful and computer technology can make anyone to become very powerful. Neuromancer did set the groundwork about Cyberpunk, but there are no rules set in stone about it.

No there arent rules set in stone. And i agree that the plot needs to be great no matter what. But then i read people's posts complaining about how DXIW was too sci-fi. Alex was too metrosexual. etc etc. These were all mistakes that were made in DXIW precisely because the script writers didnt understand what DX is supposed to be about. They just kind of wrote their own little thing and hoped for the best. Cyberpunk isnt a fixed law. But its a guideline the writers SHOULD follow, as was done with DX1. The only way a character like Klara can exist in that world, is if she meets some sort of inevitable demise. I dont mean to sound grim but in literary terms, thats the only way it would make sense. Otherwise, you can just start throwing in all kinds of things that are uncharacteristically out of place , and we'll end up with another IW.

Nathan2000
31st Mar 2008, 13:51
Otherwise, you can just start throwing in all kinds of things that are uncharacteristically out of place , and we'll end up with another IW.

Do you mean, that all characters should be grim, heartless and cynical? And you think it would make a believable world? Even in Gibson novels, there were honest, innocent people. Some people focus on dystopian aspect of cyberpunk and forget, that it wasn't meant to be dystopia. It was supposed to be a colorful but brutal world, similar to ours. Deus Ex is even closer to the real world (year 2008) than Cyberpunk theme.

Romeo
2nd Apr 2008, 07:09
No there arent rules set in stone. And i agree that the plot needs to be great no matter what. But then i read people's posts complaining about how DXIW was too sci-fi. Alex was too metrosexual. etc etc. These were all mistakes that were made in DXIW precisely because the script writers didnt understand what DX is supposed to be about. They just kind of wrote their own little thing and hoped for the best. Cyberpunk isnt a fixed law. But its a guideline the writers SHOULD follow, as was done with DX1. The only way a character like Klara can exist in that world, is if she meets some sort of inevitable demise. I dont mean to sound grim but in literary terms, thats the only way it would make sense. Otherwise, you can just start throwing in all kinds of things that are uncharacteristically out of place , and we'll end up with another IW.

I'd like her to keep feinting death. Or narrowly escaping each time, in a manner that looks like she died, but always comes back (Picture Kenny from South Park, if he didn't truly die each time). But if this is a prequel, people might not have sealed their emotions away just yet. Not compairing the two, but the best thing about Oblivion and Morrowind is learning the personalities of different characters. If every is falling under the classification of "sadist", you lose the ability to seperate the characters. Hell, you lose the desire to keep them alive, as they're the same as everyone else. So, I think that a few trustworthy people, a few rebels, a few dark characters, a few egotistical ones, some profiteers, a few psychopaths and alot of distrusting characters would make a nice little community.

IceBallz
2nd Apr 2008, 07:26
Lara Croft is the hottest !!! I want Lara in DX3 !!!