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View Full Version : Anyone else think the, "Finding/Saving Her Mother", plot is wearing thin?



Imaginary Whisk
19th Mar 2008, 16:11
I've got nothing against it really... other than I'm gonna tear my hair out if this one ends up being a - She finds a new lead, follows it, fights baddies who want to use artifact/device for own malicious intent(or maybe just hunt animals illegally to that extent. xD), defeats said baddies, uses or almost uses said device but has the process interrupted or decides that the cons out favor the pros & destroys it. - kind of plot. >.< I mean she's still raiding tombs and there's new puzzles and traps. But the story is just bugging me, I normally play games for the story's and if there isn't at least a little resolution it drives me crazy. D:

Anyone else feel like this or am I growing greys for nothin'? ._____.

LisaB1962
19th Mar 2008, 16:26
I was never a fan of the "childhood trauma made me what I am" part of the Legend story.

But it's all in the execution. It's not that Lara wants to find out what happened to her mother, it's that I don't want her to whine while doing it. I don't want her crying when she finds her mum or doesn't find her mum. It's not a bad idea, per se, but I'd prefer Lara to be less desperate or cuddly while finding out what happened.

Jezyk
19th Mar 2008, 18:32
I like it that Lara has a motivation... however I'm tad afraid of the "this has always been about this" approach. I don't want it to be THE ONLY motivation for Lara to do what she does! I'm also afraid about future installments, I hope the franchise won't end with Lara finding her mother.

Icetea555
19th Mar 2008, 18:40
Yea I kind off feel that way to. I am tired of heireing that story about only her mom but only becuse it is the only plot in TRL game but I feel they should add more to the story. It should still be about her mom but there should be some other plot to the story to other wise I just get too board. And I also fell that it is not a big enough story with it just being about her finding her mom I feel that they should add something else to the story to. I also feel if the story isn't big enough than there will only be a little bit of levels like in TRL, they only had eight small levels. But if story line is big than they should be able to give us at lest 25 levels or more in TRU. I am hopping for 25 levels or more in TRU becues I feel if it is long and lost of levels than you can just sit back and play a long game and why rush through it when you will have to wait about a year before they release another TR game. So I say if you have long game than you can play that for about 4 to 5 months and have less time to wait and if it was a good long level game than you should enjoy playing it 3 or 4 more times more. So that is why I feel it should be lost of levels in a TR game. And to get lost of levels it need to be a big enough plot in the game so that there is lost of story going on while you play your 25 or more levels in you next TRU game I hope.:rolleyes:

Imaginary Whisk
19th Mar 2008, 23:49
I was never a fan of the "childhood trauma made me what I am" part of the Legend story.

But it's all in the execution. It's not that Lara wants to find out what happened to her mother, it's that I don't want her to whine while doing it. I don't want her crying when she finds her mum or doesn't find her mum. It's not a bad idea, per se, but I'd prefer Lara to be less desperate or cuddly while finding out what happened.

I see where you're coming from. :)
I probably wont be tearing any hair out unless they're still doing this 2-3 games from now. xD


Yea I kind off feel that way to. I am tired of heireing that story about only her mom but only becuse it is the only plot in TRL game but I feel they should add more to the story. It should still be about her mom but there should be some other plot to the story to other wise I just get too board. And I also fell that it is not a big enough story with it just being about her finding her mom I feel that they should add something else to the story to. I also feel if the story isn't big enough than there will only be a little bit of levels like in TRL, they only had eight small levels. But if story line is big than they should be able to give us at lest 25 levels or more in TRU. I am hopping for 25 levels or more in TRU becues I feel if it is long and lost of levels than you can just sit back and play a long game and why rush through it when you will have to wait about a year before they release another TR game. So I say if you have long game than you can play that for about 4 to 5 months and have less time to wait and if it was a good long level game than you should enjoy playing it 3 or 4 more times more. So that is why I feel it should be lost of levels in a TR game. And to get lost of levels it need to be a big enough plot in the game so that there is lost of story going on while you play your 25 or more levels in you next TRU game I hope.:rolleyes:

I completely agree that they should make the games longer and add more levels, the last 2 are completable in 4 hours. :confused:

james987654321
20th Mar 2008, 03:17
It doesnt really bother me why she raids tombs, im just glad she does. I do like a solid story line but with a game as good as tombraider it isnt a necessity for me

Mangar The Dark
20th Mar 2008, 12:57
Yeah, I'm fine with the mother storyline. It's not getting in the way of the action, and it's an attempt to make her a bit more human, which is fine with me. The final sequence in Legend, with Lara pointing her guns at Amanda, is probably the most emotional sequence in the entire TR series, and that's largely due to the fact that she's more human now, and so when she gets pushed over the edge, it has more emotional impact (of course, credit also has to go to Keely for delivering those lines perfectly.) In the previous games, she often came across as a bit cold and detached, such as when she lets Pierre fall in Chronicles.

But I agree with Imaginery Wisk that they do need to bring some sort of closure to the storyline soon. If they drag it out much beyond Underworld without any sense of resolution, it will get wearisome.

As for whether or not she would keep raiding after she finds her mom... why not? Sure, maybe finding her mom is her motivation for now, but she clearly loves what she's doing ("I'm falling in love all over again," she says while looking at the temple in Bolivia.) I think they could easily keep the series going after she finds her mother, and maybe her character (and certainly her motivations) will evolve, which will only help the series stay fresh.

LisaB1962
20th Mar 2008, 13:02
You really think after a lifetime of searching for her mother she's going to leave her to go off alone doing extremely dangerous activities and taking foolish chances?

CatSuit&Ponytail
20th Mar 2008, 13:03
I think the search for *insert missing relative* is done much too much in fiction. I also can't stand any more boys rebelling against father scenarios. I will scream at one more orphan in a cruel step/foster-home setting. I understand these things are considered the human condition, but seriously, have I just seen it all way too often by now?

Miraclemight
20th Mar 2008, 13:11
I would be very happy if they finish the 'I want my mommy' story in TRU. I mean, two games for that plot is already too much, why make another one? :mad2:

LegendLost
20th Mar 2008, 13:46
I sort of miss how the games didn't have anything to do with one another. Give or take a few easter eggs to tie them in. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the Last Revelation through AOD storyline, but each game felt completely different and not like one long story.

But this whole lost mother storyline, it isn't so interesting. I love the "I'M SAVING THE WORLD, or DOING THIS FOR FUN" storyline. I'm not to fond of personal story arcs.

Mangar The Dark
20th Mar 2008, 15:35
You really think after a lifetime of searching for her mother she's going to leave her to go off alone doing extremely dangerous activities and taking foolish chances?

Yes, I do.
Do you really think that she's searching for her mother just so she can then spend every waking moment sitting by her side? I doubt it. She needs closure on what happened to her mother. IF her mother is alive, then she needs to make sure she's okay. Once she knows that her mother is okay, and once she's able to reconcile with her, I see no reason why she wouldn't continue adventuring.

And why would it have to be "foolish chances"? In the past games, she was usually trying to save the world from some power-hungry lunatic. That's not really foolish, and there's no reason they couldn't start bringing back stories like that again after she gets some closure on the mother-story.

LisaB1962
20th Mar 2008, 22:08
Well, it would seem a bit cold if she did. "Gee Mum, I've spend the last twenty-odd years trying to find out what happened to you because I wanted to know what happened, not because I cared about you or wanted you back or anything. In fact, it's all a bit awkward that I was able to get your back. *glances at watch* Oh dear, look at the time! I'm supposed to be in Costa Rica by noon. I'll make this quick: while you were gone, we've had a woman prime minister, the Prince of Wales got divorced, his wife got killed and two wars have happened. That's the big stuff. I'm sure you'll figure out the rest as you go. :D Cheers!" :lol:

Having a family often changes the choices you're willing to make. I mean, there were things I'd do when I was single I would dream of doing now that I have a family caring about me.

Anyway, it's all in the execution. Maybe her can take along. Have we ever had an escort mission in a TR game?:scratch:

Tomb-Dude
20th Mar 2008, 22:17
Why do people say she has been looking for her mother for 20 odd years becuase she hasn't. She always thought she was dead, it was only in Legend she found out she was alive! :mad2:
And what if she does find her mujm and if she has adjusted to her environment and turns down the off to return to back to earth. Anyone think of that?
Imagine finding Lara's mum and she turns it down? Would be a good twist...
But i am really enojying the storyline, i found it really gripping. Don't get me wrong i enjoyed the others but in Legend and Anniversary i found that i was more "attached" to Lara.

Fickji
20th Mar 2008, 23:09
I'm fine with an overall plotline of "Find mummy and make sure she's alive/ok" as long as there are subplots and cool baddies. And I would like them to wrap it up in this upcoming game or the next not go on forever.

She didn't know her mother was alive but her father always thought that she was. Lara was just trying to prove her father's theories of a monomythical society and it lead her to all theses strange places with strange legends. Here's a question. Does the Tomb Raider movie relate as her father in the movie and the new games died in Cambodia?

Will she continue tomb raiding after mother is found? Yeah, I think so. We don't know if mom will stay where she is once she and Lara are reunited. It will probably be that she finds mom and she's either
1. Dead (its been 20 some years)
2. Won't be able to leave due to some weird contract/plotline
3. If does goes with Lara would be a mother and worry about every little thing her daughter does. (and you thought Alister and Zip were annoying in TRL)

It will be either 1 or 2.

Larahair
21st Mar 2008, 03:09
I liked it however I thought it was sad the mum didn't recognise her it kind of made Lara more epic so it was good for the story. Thanks to Youtube you rock.

rabid metro
21st Mar 2008, 06:02
properly handled the mother storyline could become ...
*rabid searches for another word besides legendary but then decides to use it anyway*
legendary. after all, in terms of human motivation, the themes have been known since ancient greek times. :cool:
however, like the notes on a piano, its the unique melody that sustains interest.
there's no reason that Lara's mother can't be both compelling to Lara and secondary (at best) to future Tomb Raider storylines.

Ride On!
:cool:

naraku
21st Mar 2008, 06:11
So is the one where the son kills the father. Or wife kill husband, son then avenges fathers death and kills Mother. Goes insane then becomes legendary.

Imaginary Whisk
21st Mar 2008, 08:09
I'm just saying that they don't need to make this the underline theme of the next 3-4 games. lol

Mangar The Dark
21st Mar 2008, 13:26
Well, it would seem a bit cold if she did. "Gee Mum, I've spend the last twenty-odd years trying to find out what happened to you because I wanted to know what happened, not because I cared about you or wanted you back or anything.

I think we may have to agree to disagree about this.
In my experience, it's very possible to care about someone, and yet not have to spend every moment with them, or stop living your own life because of them.
When my father was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago, I did whatever I could to see him through it, and yes, that was the center of my concerns at the time. Now he's better, and I'm relieved, and I'm back to living my own life. It doesn't mean I stopped caring (or that I never cared). I stay in touch, visit occasionally, etc. In fact, he wouldn't want me to stop living my life just so I could sit by his side constantly.

Same thing with Lara-- If her mother is alive, then obviously she's not where she should be. Lara wants to do whatever she can to bring her home safely. But once she accomplishes that, do you really think she should just give up her own life? If you had a child, would you want your child to give up his/her passions to wait on you hand and foot everyday? Would you consider it "cold" if your child risked his/her life to save you and then, after a while, went back to living his/her own life again? I doubt it.

L4dy Croft
25th Mar 2008, 06:25
If only blu ray was for all consles, with blu ray, you could fit all the tr games plus the new game with 30 hours of gameplay!

aussie500
26th Mar 2008, 09:35
l see nothing wrong with having the search for Amelia Croft as the connecting back story run over multiple games, most people would do anything for their Mum. At least Amelia is better looking than the nephilim that were planned to connect the AOD trilogy. Legend was about the search for Excalibur, it was not about Amelia Croft, no doubt Lara will be of hunting for some other part of the puzzle in Underworld, another adventure which might or might not conclude Amelia's story. No doubt as we get more information about what happened to Amelia the back story will become more interesting, l hope it does not finish with Underworld.

Rai
26th Mar 2008, 12:07
I've got nothing against it really... other than I'm gonna tear my hair out if this one ends up being a - She finds a new lead, follows it, fights baddies who want to use artifact/device for own malicious intent(or maybe just hunt animals illegally to that extent. xD), defeats said baddies, uses or almost uses said device but has the process interrupted or decides that the cons out favor the pros & destroys it. - kind of plot. >.< I mean she's still raiding tombs and there's new puzzles and traps. But the story is just bugging me, I normally play games for the story's and if there isn't at least a little resolution it drives me crazy. D:

Anyone else feel like this or am I growing greys for nothin'? ._____.

No, I do not think the story is wearing thing - yet. We were introduced to the story in Legend and it was backdated/tied in with the story of TRA to show where Lara's search started. In TRU, we pretty much need a continuation and a possible conclusion. Hopefully, Lara will then be able to continue with living her life doing what she does best. Looking for her mother and trying to prove her father's theories were obviously a big influence and motivation to what she was doing, but who says her purpose will stop once she finds her mother? (and I truly hope she does). We don't know what has happened in-between, whether the missions in the Core games have been completely forgotten or if the back story includes them and we're just not aware yet.

We have been told that TRU will tie up loose ends, whether that is the Legend story or an opportunity to explain a few others: AOD, Revelations etc, will remain to be seen. The storyline involving finding Amelia will conclude, but to abandon the issues completely would simply seem odd. So whatever happens in or after TRU, I hope that they don't just have Lara say Hi to her Mum and then we never hear from Amelia again. I hope they can find a way to include her, perhaps as a secondary character like Zip and Alistair. That is if Amelia is still alive.

burt_ie
26th Mar 2008, 20:42
Yup...I think its VERY cheesy to have this "finding your parent" thing thrown in to the story of TR. I mean its hardly original now is it?? Surly they can think of something better? I have seen this plot element used so many times in films, cartoons etc!! Lara was originally mysterious and had an enigma about her...and now she has lost that original appeal to me :(

LisaB1962
27th Mar 2008, 10:53
Personally, I don't have a problem with never resolving it definitely. Look at how Fox Mulder's sister's disappearance shaped the Xfiles w/o every episode being about finding his sister. It turned up frequently enough so you knew how important it was, but most episodes (and the best) did not focus on actually resolving what happened.

Mangar The Dark
27th Mar 2008, 12:44
Yup...I think its VERY cheesy to have this "finding your parent" thing thrown in to the story of TR. I mean its hardly original now is it??

But then again, were the TR story lines EVER original? They're basically rip-offs of the Indiana Jones plots-- find the powerful artifact before the evil people use it to destroy the world. And even Indiana Jones isn't being original about it-- they're a throwback to the serials from the 1930s.

LisaB1962
27th Mar 2008, 15:32
Yeah. The truth is MOST plots are not original. They're inspired by something else, derived from something else, outright theft of something else.

I mean, the game is about finding stuff. They've just tried to give a larger scope to what Lara is looking for. My problem with it isn't the "looking for her mother part" part really so much as I don't want to watch Lara be all cuddly and emo. :D

Imaginary Whisk
2nd Apr 2008, 00:15
I don't think she'd be as emo if she found her mother alive as she would if her mother ended up being dead. :P

I wish they wouldn't try so hard to incorporate more human emotions into her character. I thought the old formula worked pretty well, she was presented with a problem and dealed with it and with maybe some witty dialog in between. But come on... Adding sympathetic commentary whenever she had to kill a animal in Legend, and then displaying remorse when any of the 4 cronies of Natla died? The devs should stop worrying about her emotional development, she's one of the few characters that I thought was considerably succesful for basicly having a static personality. :/

ihatemilkduds
3rd Apr 2008, 19:19
Why do people say she has been looking for her mother for 20 odd years because she hasn't. She always thought she was dead, it was only in Legend she found out she was alive! :mad2:
And what if she does find her mum and if she has adjusted to her environment and turns down the off to return to back to earth. Anyone think of that?
Imagine finding Lara's mum and she turns it down? Would be a good twist...
But i am really enjoying the storyline, i found it really gripping. Don't get me wrong i enjoyed the others but in Legend and Anniversary i found that i was more "attached" to Lara.

I've been wondering this, too Tomb-Dude. She HASN'T been looking for her mother her entire life. she's just been digging up the past hoping she will find some explanation for. . .life.

i really REALLY like the idea of lara's mother being found and opting to stay in Avalon. as soon as i read that, i just had this magnificent image in my mind of what kind of heartbreaking scene that would be should the story lend itself to this plotline. i enjoy the personal story arc. i love that they've made lara more human. and yet, at the same time, she's still ruthless. we just know WHY now. we, as gamers and followers of the lara croft saga, have now been invited into her world. we're not just controlling her, she's controlling us. and i like it very much.

i don't think it's been too wishy-washily done. and, again,i love the idea of having to say goodbye to her mother. it could end up being a chip on her shoulder for future games. not outright, but always there in the background, spurring lara on to take more risks and chances with her adventures. lara's seen a lot of pretty crazy, unbelievable stuff. . .but this time. . .this one just might change everything.

Imaginary Whisk
3rd Apr 2008, 21:16
Well for the most part she hasn't been looking for her mother the entire sum of her life, I think that much they've made obvious. But they have made it a underlying goal for each of game's that Crystal has done so far, and yes that includes Anniversary. She wasn't after the Scion herself, but her father was. She picked up where he left off because she wanted to regain her fathers respect in the archaeological community. I think as such was the reason why, after witnessing the assumed power of the Scion in the hands of Natla, she silently apologized to her father before destroying it. I just don't want to see them having her or the plot being anchored to a lame plot device like this. They could have done better imo. :/

ziad
16th Apr 2008, 16:14
i'm totally with u on this one... i mean i like the games where lara didnt feel so human. u know, like where she stood to be this overly dominant b**ch that would stop at nothing to get what she wants. and although yes i liked the fact that lara showed some emotions, it kinda took the piss where she didnt kill an OLD (i cant stress that word enough) friend, and yet tried to be totally understanding even though amanda tried to kill her almost every time they met.

and another point... LARA KNOWS WHERE HER MOTHER IS!!!... leave her alone for gods sake woman..

i would be really angry if my daughter pulled be out of avalon to come back down to earth just because she was too selfish to let me go..
i mean the whole point of legend was to find out where her mother is. she knows now. MOVE ON! its perhaps the most annoying thing to know that the 'finding my mother plot' is going to be dragged out.

Mangar The Dark
16th Apr 2008, 16:43
and another point... LARA KNOWS WHERE HER MOTHER IS!!!... leave her alone for gods sake woman..

i would be really angry if my daughter pulled be out of avalon to come back down to earth just because she was too selfish to let me go..

How do you know her mother WANTS to be in Avalon? It wasn't as if she went there by her own choice. So, I'd imagine Lara would want to actually find her mother and ASK her. If her mother then says she wants to stay, fine, but otherwise, I don't see what's wrong with Lara bringing her back.


I guess I'm in the minority for liking this new, more human version of Lara. I'm replaying AOD now, and I think she's completely obnoxious in that game. She's rude to everyone, regardless of whether they deserve it or not, and as a result, I find it very hard to root for her. At least in Legend, I like the character. She's still tough, but with the added human element, it's easier to feel for her when things go wrong. I felt zero sympathy for her in AOD, and even in the earlier games, she often came across as a bit TOO cold and inhuman. It never really felt as if she cared about anyone or anything, so it was hard to care for her.

ziad
16th Apr 2008, 21:44
How do you know her mother WANTS to be in Avalon? It wasn't as if she went there by her own choice. So, I'd imagine Lara would want to actually find her mother and ASK her. If her mother then says she wants to stay, fine, but otherwise, I don't see what's wrong with Lara bringing her back.


I guess I'm in the minority for liking this new, more human version of Lara. I'm replaying AOD now, and I think she's completely obnoxious in that game. She's rude to everyone, regardless of whether they deserve it or not, and as a result, I find it very hard to root for her. At least in Legend, I like the character. She's still tough, but with the added human element, it's easier to feel for her when things go wrong. I felt zero sympathy for her in AOD, and even in the earlier games, she often came across as a bit TOO cold and inhuman. It never really felt as if she cared about anyone or anything, so it was hard to care for her.


lol i'm sure being in avalon cant be that bad. why would amanda travel across the globe to go there?

and as for lara being rude.. i like her that way, she had a personality, i mean after all lara does go in to tombs, kills people and STEALS artifacts. its weird to see something that has the capability of gunning a man down without thinking twice about it be increadibly nice... imo lara is better suited to being rude, it just makes her character more dominant and rutheless.

LisaB1962
16th Apr 2008, 22:53
I'm replaying AOD now,

Wow. That's impressive. *tips hat* I tried to replay AOD once, but I couldn't do it.

It's not that Lara is "more human" it's that she seems to be more of an open book now, and I prefer a little more mystery to her. Now we're privy to everything, and I liked things a little more ambiguous.

Mangar The Dark
17th Apr 2008, 13:03
Wow. That's impressive. *tips hat* I tried to replay AOD once, but I couldn't do it.

Aside from Lara's rudeness in AOD, I really like the game. I never saw what was so bad about it. Granted, the levels are quite small, but at least there are plenty of them. I just completed the Tomb Of The Ancients last night.



It's not that Lara is "more human" it's that she seems to be more of an open book now, and I prefer a little more mystery to her. Now we're privy to everything, and I liked things a little more ambiguous.

Ok, I can definitely understand that. Kind of like how some people hated seeing Boba Fett as a kid in Attack Of The Clones, because they liked the mysterious masked man that he was in Empire Strikes Back. But it doesn't bother me in Lara's case, I guess because I never really found her mysterious before, I just saw her as under developed and two dimensional, so now I appreciate the effort CD is putting into fleshing her out into a real character.



lol i'm sure being in avalon cant be that bad. why would amanda travel across the globe to go there?


You're talking about a woman who harnesses a demon for her own nefarious purposes. Do you really think Lara should just say, "Well, this psychotic demon-harnessing woman wants to go there, so it must be quite lovely. I'm sure mum is fine. I'll just let her be."

And even if it IS a nice place (as the legends say)-- if your own mother was kidnapped by, say, Donald Trump. and taken to one of his palatial estates, would you just sit back and say, "Well, she's probably in a nicer house than this one, so I'll just let her enjoy it and forget about her."

jayjay119
17th Apr 2008, 13:29
Why do people say she has been looking for her mother for 20 odd years becuase she hasn't. She always thought she was dead, it was only in Legend she found out she was alive! :mad2:
And what if she does find her mujm and if she has adjusted to her environment and turns down the off to return to back to earth. Anyone think of that?
Imagine finding Lara's mum and she turns it down? Would be a good twist...
But i am really enojying the storyline, i found it really gripping. Don't get me wrong i enjoyed the others but in Legend and Anniversary i found that i was more "attached" to Lara.

Yes but tomb raider legend, we can assume is set before TR1 due to how young lara looks in it and her naivety/ lack of knowledge etc. I think the point with the Legend Trilogy (so sorry i think this story is gonna drag on for a 3rd game somehow.) is to place each bit in-between other TR games.

Besides, I agree. We don't know what will happen with Lara and her mother yet! But in terms of Lara's luck and the general fact that TR is one of the most successful game franchises again, I don't think it will end well. Maybe her mother's rejection is what makes Lara as driven as she was in TR1-6. Also some of the past adventures don't tie in to this one- the dagger of Xi'an or the Amulet of Horace for example. So it wasn't always about her mother.

Plus there's still the AOD trilogy to be completed...I know we hope in vain but if we didn't have hope what would we have :)

Mangar The Dark
17th Apr 2008, 14:03
Yes but tomb raider legend, we can assume is set before TR1

Nope. Legend definitely takes place after TR1. In TRA, which is CD's take on TR1, we see it is the first time Lara kills anyone (Larson.) In Legend, she's gunning people down left and right without a moment's hesitation.

LisaB1962
17th Apr 2008, 15:32
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why Amanda is evil other than the fact she's the antagonist in Legend?

Mangar The Dark
17th Apr 2008, 15:36
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why Amanda is evil other than the fact she's the antagonist in Legend?


Good question! It's funny, because in a lot of ways, Legend is more plot oriented than the older TR games, but they somehow forgot to explain what's so bad about the supposed "villain."
Hmmm... maybe I'll have to rethink my previous reply to Ziad about Amanda's "nefarious purposes"... come to think of it, we have no idea what her intentions are.

Jezyk
17th Apr 2008, 16:09
Why is she evil? Well, she did hire mercenaries with Rutland to kill Lara.

Mangar The Dark
17th Apr 2008, 16:19
Why is she evil? Well, she did hire mercenaries with Rutland to kill Lara.

Only because Lara was trying to mess up her plans. But we don't know what those plans were. So, as far as we know, what Amanda did is no different from what Lara usually does-- tries to kill anyone who gets in her way. If the game had told us about some evil plot of Amanda's, it would have helped.

*Heckler*
17th Apr 2008, 20:50
The "i miss mummy" plot is fine with me as long as Lara never finds her......
I would never get over it if Lara and her mum lived happily ever after.....
Zip and Alister over the headset is quite busy enough as it is.....Gosh imagine if Amelia would have been included on the headset later in the game....I would go mad!!! :lol:

LisaB1962
17th Apr 2008, 21:06
Only because Lara was trying to mess up her plans. But we don't know what those plans were. So, as far as we know, what Amanda did is no different from what Lara usually does-- tries to kill anyone who gets in her way. If the game had told us about some evil plot of Amanda's, it would have helped.

We have to keep telling ourselves "it's just a video game plot." Holes are part of it.

And let's be honest: do we really want all our raiding even more interrupted with cutscenes filling in those holes? :scratch:

I didn't think so. :lol:

Fickji
17th Apr 2008, 21:41
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why Amanda is evil other than the fact she's the antagonist in Legend?

Well, Amanda's not evil in the natural order of things. She's more of a roadblock like Rutland that stands in Lara's way.

And she could be considered evil for not telling Lara what happened in Peru all those years ago and than when Lara finally see her Amanda swears at Lara and than blocks Lara's way with mercenaries and guns.

Beside's Lara has a better reason than Amanda to go to Avalon(the mother thing). Unless there's another plot twist:eek: da da daaaa.

Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we meet Lara's mother and she's just like Lara. She jumps around and does nifty athletics. But she doesn't approve of her daughter's shooting everyone and uses tranquilizers instead.:D

jayjay119
17th Apr 2008, 22:01
Nope. Legend definitely takes place after TR1. In TRA, which is CD's take on TR1, we see it is the first time Lara kills anyone (Larson.) In Legend, she's gunning people down left and right without a moment's hesitation.

Yes but that was self-defense. I would gun someone down without a moments hesitation if they had machine guns, grenades or a magic sword fragment lol I wouldn't kill an innocent. In TR:A Larson was the first person Lara killed simply because he was in her way and she wanted to progress- Toby Gard described it as 'she's had enough and feels like she isn't progressing because of him and she wants to move on so this is the point where we see how far Lara is willing to stretch herself to obtain her goals. Or something to that effect. In TR:L people like Rutland and Amanda were in her way a couple of times before the end, and she let them live, even though they tried to kill her.

In TR:A she is generally less tolerant with people, like Larson (again) she beats him up the first time she sees him, where as the encounter with Amanda she just wants to talk- even after she orders her mercs to effectively kill her.
Plus before she shoots the Scion she openly makes a reference the the Legend storyline hence it must have come first.

And I didn't think Amanda was evil I just thought she was traumatized and influenced by that monster thing.

LisaB1962
18th Apr 2008, 11:48
And I didn't think Amanda was evil I just thought she was traumatized and influenced by that monster thing.

Yeah, I have a hard time classifying her as "evil." Not telling folks she lived, that sounds more like b*tchy girl stuff than "eeeeviiil."

Mangar The Dark
18th Apr 2008, 12:26
Yes but that was self-defense. I would gun someone down without a moments hesitation if they had machine guns, grenades or a magic sword fragment lol I wouldn't kill an innocent. In TR:A Larson was the first person Lara killed simply because he was in her way and she wanted to progress- Toby Gard described it as 'she's had enough and feels like she isn't progressing because of him and she wants to move on so this is the point where we see how far Lara is willing to stretch herself to obtain her goals. Or something to that effect. In TR:L people like Rutland and Amanda were in her way a couple of times before the end, and she let them live, even though they tried to kill her.

In TR:A she is generally less tolerant with people, like Larson (again) she beats him up the first time she sees him, where as the encounter with Amanda she just wants to talk- even after she orders her mercs to effectively kill her.
Plus before she shoots the Scion she openly makes a reference the the Legend storyline hence it must have come first.

And I didn't think Amanda was evil I just thought she was traumatized and influenced by that monster thing.

Hmmmm.... good points. I don't remember the reference to Legend's storyline in TRA, so I'll have to check that out. I always figured TRA came first simply because they made such a big deal about Lara killing a person. In TRL, she shoots people in the back (like those two mercs near the beginning of the Bolivia level who are having a conversation with each other), and it doesn't bother her.

Also, in TRA, she states that she just moved into her manor, (and notice all the packing crates, the unfinished pool, etc?) And no Zip or Alistair yet.
So, I still think TRA comes before TRL.

jayjay119
18th Apr 2008, 17:05
I don't think she does she's just moved in, don't forget she reads a letter off winston- who tells her they came while out and the study was locked so he couldn't put them in. plus there is more rooms in TR:A's manor- I will admit though the pool did throw me, mayeb it's being remodeled!

Plus they were her father's 3 estates and she said in legend she consideres the TRL/A manor 'home' probably becaus ethat's the house she grew up in!

Also I take the fact that Zip and Alister aren;t there yet as that they just moved on.

BTW the reference to the TR story is during th cinematic the end of the great pyramid level.

burt_ie
18th Apr 2008, 17:20
I thought the whole idea of Lara Croft was Tomb Raiding...to me that means raiding tombs, finding artifacts and avoiding dangerous traps...they may as well rename it "Lara Croft People Finder - the quest for the long lost mother" the way the franchise is going. Hey why not just get Zip and Alister to just look up her mum on facebook! :lol:

Fickji
18th Apr 2008, 17:31
As TRA is based upon the first Tomb raider game ever AND that was 10 years ago. YES, TRA is a prequal to Legend and the like.

She is also wearing the old outfit and not the new Legend outfit.

With regards to the young look its more due to the graphics/model used in Legend and not a good representation. You can see the difference better with the underworld model verses the Anniversary model.

She also is NOT looking for her mother but trying to prove that her father was right in finding the scion and the whole monomyth of a precivillization.

As stated by other posters... Zip and Allister are not present and work on the mansion is underway. This is more due to them not be minions of Lara yet and the mansion is being rediyed for Lara's arrival.

I'm a bad speller

rabid metro
19th Apr 2008, 08:06
...Plus before she shoots the Scion she openly makes a reference the the Legend storyline hence it must have come first.

And I didn't think Amanda was evil I just thought she was traumatized and influenced by that monster thing...

... before she shoots the Scion, Lara has a moment of self-reproach (blood on her hands) and then resolves to honor her fathers memory ("I'm sorry Father"). There is no connection to the Legend storyline, however this passage does contribute to the father backstory and therefore supports developments that occurred (later) during Legend.

let's not be confused. TRA clearly occurred about 10 years before Legend. The Legend storyline invalidates any previous (Core) adventures with the exception of TR1, to date. At the beginning of Legend, we know very little of what Lara has been doing recently. We can assume that she has been on unspecified adventures and that she is now more or less retracing her fathers past adventures when she stumbles upon "tourists" ... so to speak. Amanda, being evil, has already recognized and anticipated that Lara might show up and does not even bother to say hello, but instead arranges for Lara to be killed after first draining her of any information about the Excalibur shard. Lara, and others, had long ago considered Amanda to be dead and therefore Lara would not be looking for Amanda or easily recognize her in her present evil incarnation. Lara is not in Amanda's way and, for Amanda to kill Lara would be completely unnecessary (hence evil). it is somewhat ironic that Amanda's evil intentions draw Lara deeper into the story and ultimately result in Amanda being undone by Lara. While Lara is neither innocent or a saint, she is clearly not acting in an evil manner ...

wanting to equivocate over the meaning of words, such as evil, was not pretty when a former U.S. president tried it and its not particularly entertaining now. not being able to see the clear storyline that CD has started to weave is ...let's just say ... unfortunate ...
:cool:

LisaB1962
19th Apr 2008, 12:50
So much evil. Methinks you doth protest too much. :cool:

From the references in Anniversary, I took them to mean that Lara's father had started to search for any legendary powerful artifacts in an attempt to find Amelia. Hence the "I'm sorry" before Lara shoots the Scion. No reason to apologize if it's just another archaeological theory. But failure to discover what really happened to her mother when the answer is so close, yet the personal price too high (aligning herself with Natla), that could warrant an "I'm sorry."

rabid metro
20th Apr 2008, 05:50
my impression is that at the time of TRA, most people in Lara's world thought that her father had gone mad trying to discover Amelia's whereabouts. somewhere near the beginning of TRA, the father voice-over proclaims that only Lara herself still believes. But it would seem that Lara has found little or no evidence in support of her father ... until ... Natla emerges with her offer. at the start of the Greece levels, the father voice-over proclaims a belief that the Scion could impart knowledge about Amelia's whereabouts. At the moment when Lara has to destroy the Scion, Natla has revealed that the Scion is the key to immortality and to eliminating the last barriers of the 7th Age, or something like that. the point is that Lara knows that she must destroy the Scion to foil Natla's plans and Lara has resigned herself to once again believing that her father was mistaken in thinking that Amelia can be found. TRA seems to confirm the suspicion that although her father was brilliant, he was delusional when it came to Amelia. (hence "I'm sorry Father").

In Legend, years later, is when Lara has her change of heart concerning her fathers sanity.
these are compelling storylines that even Shakespeare, no doubt, would enjoy.
this is what its always been about...
:cool:

jade 2180
21st Apr 2008, 16:00
I really do think Lara has been a greater character since she was given a bit of a soul. The plot with her mother made "legend" the most interesting plot of the whole TR series. It would be ridiculous to get rid of it in Underworld. Just imagine this: Lara knows her mother is alive somewhere, and she carries on running around the world for crappy pieces of stones! COme on!!!
"Anniversary" was fine but the story could be written at the back of a postage stamp! Does anyone here know "Max Payne". That's the story that keeps you going!
So, PLease do not flush the story with Lara's mother.

_Tomb_Raider_
21st Apr 2008, 17:09
Well I also love to play TR beacose it had a good story and I think it was a good think that Cristal did story abaut Lara try to find mother. Maybe it will be good that in Underworld Lara is again trying to find mother, but in TR9 I think that we will get story that hasn't anything to do whit Lara family.:)

jayjay119
22nd Apr 2008, 12:32
Well i assume it will all become clear in underworld! But I still believe Legend occurred BEFORE otherwise why bother to include the father storyline in TR:A? it worked perfectly well without it the first time round and would have again. Plus why would Lara have such a emotional attachment to the Scion if at that point she did not believe her father about the disappearance of her mother? The scion is basically a giant hard drive! Storing data and would probably contain how to get to Avalon other that using Excalibur which is why her father would have searched for it! if she didn't beleive him she wouldn't have been upset to destroy it and probably wouldn't have taken on the project anyway- Also Natla states in the opening of TRA that she and her father have looked for Vilcabamba before- hence she didn't believe then but does now and thats why she returns to Peru again.

Plus I'm sorry but CD did not discount Core's games, A while back when the first TRU info was first released CD said 'were not going back, we're not changing anything everything that happened, happened' or something to that extend. With the Legend storyline seems that they are weaving it between other games! It's not a new concept Chronicles did it.

Mangar The Dark
22nd Apr 2008, 14:19
Plus I'm sorry but CD did not discount Core's games, A while back when TRU was first released CD said 'were not going back, we're not changing anything everything that happened, happened'

Well, they're lying.
They DID change things. If you read the backstory included with TR1, and compare it to the backstory included with TRL, you'll see they made definite changes. Some of the changes are trivial (changing Lara's father's name from Henshingly to Richard), some are more substantial (changing Lara's relationship with her parents.) But clearly, they're reimagining the character, and the Lara in TRL and TRA is different from the Lara in the first six games.
The fact that CD is saying they didn't change anything is kind of like if I went into your house, repainted your room and then said, "What are you talking about? It was always this color. I didn't change anything." Would you believe me just because I said so?

mimi90
22nd Apr 2008, 14:22
So much evil. Methinks you doth protest too much. :cool:

From the references in Anniversary, I took them to mean that Lara's father had started to search for any legendary powerful artifacts in an attempt to find Amelia. Hence the "I'm sorry" before Lara shoots the Scion. No reason to apologize if it's just another archaeological theory. But failure to discover what really happened to her mother when the answer is so close, yet the personal price too high (aligning herself with Natla), that could warrant an "I'm sorry."


The way they tied in TRA with the Legend story line was a good idea... although it makes me wonder if CD re-released TR1 just for that reason because Lara's hunt for the scion is probably the best story line to date...
I can't understand how people find the hunt for Amelia a tired concept... wouldn't you want to search for your mother if thier was any chance she was alive? Although, yes i think taking past TRU would be a bad idea...

LisaB1962
22nd Apr 2008, 14:28
some are more substantial (changing Lara's relationship with her parents.)

Oh, they only killed them off. I can't see how you can consider that "substantial"! :D

jayjay119
22nd Apr 2008, 21:44
Well, they're lying.
They DID change things. If you read the backstory included with TR1, and compare it to the backstory included with TRL, you'll see they made definite changes. Some of the changes are trivial (changing Lara's father's name from Henshingly to Richard), some are more substantial (changing Lara's relationship with her parents.) But clearly, they're reimagining the character, and the Lara in TRL and TRA is different from the Lara in the first six games.
The fact that CD is saying they didn't change anything is kind of like if I went into your house, repainted your room and then said, "What are you talking about? It was always this color. I didn't change anything." Would you believe me just because I said so?

Hey I didn't say that CD didn't change anything, but you missed my point. CD didn't say they hadn't changed things in Legend and TRA I agree the changes are really bold (and thats an understatement) and I didn't like them at first either, but what they meant was people were assuming that TR1-6 didn't happen under the CD continuity- But CD are saying that they did happen but they changed bits on TRL/TRA to fit their story in! But TRU will not go into the previous games and change their story in underworld That's what I meant.

I wouldn't say CD didn't change things because it would be like slapping someone across the face in a room full of witnesses and then going 'i didn't do anything!'

David 070
23rd Apr 2008, 05:27
i thought her mother died in the plane crash? :scratch:

Mangar The Dark
23rd Apr 2008, 12:23
Hey I didn't say that CD didn't change anything, but you missed my point. CD didn't say they hadn't changed things in Legend and TRA I agree the changes are really bold (and thats an understatement) and I didn't like them at first either, but what they meant was people were assuming that TR1-6 didn't happen under the CD continuity- But CD are saying that they did happen but they changed bits on TRL/TRA to fit their story in! But TRU will not go into the previous games and change their story in underworld That's what I meant.


Ahhh... ok. Now I understand. Sorry!

Mangar The Dark
23rd Apr 2008, 12:25
i thought her mother died in the plane crash? :scratch:

I guess you didn't play TRL, then. When you get a chance to play that one, you'll see what we're all talking about (I won't spoil it for you now.)

jayjay119
24th Apr 2008, 13:38
i thought her mother died in the plane crash? :scratch:

No that's an assumption a lot of people made surprisingly! But i don't know how as in TRL there is no implication that she does and in Core's TR's she's just not dead.

Ms.Croft.Legend
27th Apr 2008, 10:51
Well personally I kind of agree with youo here. I think the plot line is good and solid - searching for her mother in all. But I do fell that it is getting tedious and annoying. It is the same story over and over again and THEN they keep changing it. I mean, jeez stick to one story! I also feel that the whole 'searching for mom, i love you!' plot makes Lara's character seem a little, i dont know, weak. I think its good that they showed a soft and loving side to her but i think it makes Lara seem vulnerable and shifts the gaze away from her kickass attitude. Am I the only one?

I am not saying that she was be ruthless, god no. I just think they should stick to one story and then make Lara more determined in her search - rarely/sometimes showing her soft side yearning for a mothers love. Just an idea.

jayjay119
27th Apr 2008, 15:54
I think its good that they showed a soft and loving side to her but i think it makes Lara seem vulnerable and shifts the gaze away from her kickass attitude. Am I the only one?

Nope!

ziad
29th Apr 2008, 16:10
But I still believe Legend occurred BEFORE


Plus I'm sorry but CD did not discount Core's games, A while back when the first TRU info was first released CD said 'were not going back, we're not changing anything everything that happened, happened' or something to that extend. With the Legend storyline seems that they are weaving it between other games! It's not a new concept Chronicles did it.

yeah i said the same thing at first about legend happening before, and it would of been better if they did it that way, but there is too much evidence that suggests that it happened afterwards, such as the human killing, you know, like she killed larson and got all teary and now she kills quite alot of people without thinking twice and of course the house, and the pool being under construction.

well AOD wanted to do a continueing storyline, and i'm gutted they didn't, i remember reading that the second part of AOD was going to be set in turkey in a tomb with all the nephilim. AOD in my opinion had the best STORYLINE, shame everyone hated it. i really wanted to see what happened after she left that chamber. and chronicles sort of did it

err err and about amanda being evil, i would say she is as evil as lara. i mean to be fair the demon saved her life, and if u could have a little demon pet, i'm sure you wouldnt say know. and being more or less buried alive would make u *****y and angry, unless of course you were jesus or something.

jayjay119
29th Apr 2008, 17:33
yeah i said the same thing at first about legend happening before, and it would of been better if they did it that way, but there is too much evidence that suggests that it happened afterwards, such as the human killing, you know, like she killed larson and got all teary and now she kills quite alot of people without thinking twice and of course the house, and the pool being under construction.

There's more evidence to suggest TRL is a prequel than a sequel and for some reason CD are keeping quiet about when it was set themselves, thats why I think we'll know when TRU comes out. Plus it would make sense that she killed people without looking twice in TRL- if a bunch of mercenary type fellows with a machine gun/ riot gun and grenades who were ordered to kill you ambushed you, would you think twice about trying to put a bullet in everyone of them and then cry about it afterwards....? I wouldn't. The Americans have an exact saying for this 'Self-defense isn't Murder!' The Larson thing was totally different, it was a killing in cold blood just because he was in the way, and Lara wanted to progress TR:A saw Lara's ruthlessness develop as Toby Gard himself says. Lara isn't ruthless in TRL until the end and even then its not so much as in other TR games.



well AOD wanted to do a continueing storyline, and i'm gutted they didn't, i remember reading that the second part of AOD was going to be set in turkey in a tomb with all the nephilim. AOD in my opinion had the best STORYLINE, shame everyone hated it. i really wanted to see what happened after she left that chamber. and chronicles sort of did it

Which chamber are you talking about? the one she gets burried in in TR4 or the one at the end of AOD, cuz I can't remember TRC making any reference to the AOD storyline!

ziad
29th Apr 2008, 17:42
yeah i get what u mean... hmm... and i was talking about the chamber at the end of AOD.

jayjay119
29th Apr 2008, 17:49
yeah i get what u mean... hmm... and i was talking about the chamber at the end of AOD.

OH ok i get what you mean now lol

Greenas
30th Apr 2008, 18:59
I actually think the story is great (not the overall plot of course) but just the way that they put it together . They took an average story and then made it much more dramatic , interesting and emotional. If they are able to do the same with Underworld the story won't bother me at all:D

little miss Ju
7th May 2008, 15:50
I hate it - Tomb Raider is about raiding tombs and they should stick to that or at least something close to that. I hated the King Arthur stroyline anyway for some reason. I guess it just seemed boring to me - I dunno why.

ziad
7th May 2008, 15:58
I hate it - Tomb Raider is about raiding tombs and they should stick to that or at least something close to that. I hated the King Arthur stroyline anyway for some reason. I guess it just seemed boring to me - I dunno why.

lol lara did raid tombs in legend... its the annoying connection that was made between laras parents and her in the last two games that pisses me off

Mangar The Dark
7th May 2008, 16:25
I hate it - Tomb Raider is about raiding tombs and they should stick to that or at least something close to that.

They HAVE been sticking mainly to raiding tombs. The mother storyline isn't getting in the way of that at all.

Anarae
8th May 2008, 08:28
The mother storyline is fine but I worry about the ending. If she saves/finds her mother then they'll be a family again. Lara's never had a family (just Winston, the preacher guy, Alister, Zip, and random friends). She's never had blood family. The mother will obviously tell Lara that she feels they've lost too much time and that Lara shouldn't be going on dangerous adventures. This would guilt trip Lara and potentially muck up future games.

If she fails to save her mother, we have a depressed Lara who will probably suffer from weird issues and still muck up future games.

I'm sure Eidos has figured out how to fix that little concern already, but I'm still worried about it.

jayjay119
8th May 2008, 15:08
I hate it - Tomb Raider is about raiding tombs and they should stick to that or at least something close to that. I hated the King Arthur stroyline anyway for some reason. I guess it just seemed boring to me - I dunno why.

Maybe because it was a little too close to home? In previous TR's LAra has found artifacts from other culture's/ countries' pasts, after all that to get a game based on English myth when you are from England isn't all that exciting for some, I loved it myself!

little miss Ju
8th May 2008, 15:14
They HAVE been sticking mainly to raiding tombs. The mother storyline isn't getting in the way of that at all.

yeah but it's still boring and been done loads of times before - and much better

Tomb-Dude
8th May 2008, 15:20
yeah but it's still boring and been done loads of times before - and much better

Lara in the beginging wasn't really searching for her mother just pieces of the sword which where interlinked (sp?) with the death/dissapeariance (sp?) of her mother.
Then at the end she found out he mother is actually live in Avalon by Amanda. Lara might not be searching for her mum in this game or it might be a slight part of the story.
But we don't know 100% yet.

But I like find the mum storyline because they might/could do a twist. He mum has gone mad and trys to kill Lara and at the end you have to kill her because she also as a sword like Lara (remember he and the sword dissapeared ;) )
Her mum might not want to go back as she is married to king arthur :lol:

little miss Ju
8th May 2008, 15:24
Lara in the beginging wasn't really searching for her mother just pieces of the sword which where interlinked (sp?) with the death/dissapeariance (sp?) of her mother.
Then at the end she found out he mother is actually live in Avalon by Amanda. Lara might not be searching for her mum in this game or it might be a slight part of the story.
But we don't know 100% yet.

But I like find the mum storyline because they might/could do a twist. He mum has gone mad and trys to kill Lara and at the end you have to kill her because she also as a sword like Lara (remember he and the sword dissapeared ;) )
Her mum might not want to go back as she is married to king arthur :lol:

I know the plot I just really didn't like the storyline because in my opinion they could really have come up with something much better. And what's sp?

jayjay119
11th May 2008, 18:08
IAnd what's sp?

Spelling

Tomb-Dude
11th May 2008, 21:27
I know the plot I just really didn't like the storyline because in my opinion they could really have come up with something much better. And what's sp?

I think it's a very interesting storyline becuase you get to see behind the "im such a tough girl" personality and you get to see what she is like deep down. At the end we got to see the old Lara.

Imaginary Whisk
17th May 2008, 08:40
Well, after replaying Legend and Anniversary a couple of times, I'll admit that I feel more neutral about how the plot has been going so far. I'm holding my breath, waiting to see if they make any worthwhile character developments for her when they finally release the game. Unless something happens and the series takes an even darker tone, I don't believe the Lara they have been portraying her as will have an enduring interest in tomb raiding if she succeeds in getting her mother back.

But it's still early in the series. My hope is that they start thinking outside the box and begin being just a tad bit more creative with what they put into the next installment. I don't mean to complain over the quality of Legend and Anniversary's stories... but they just feel like filler, and filler is good. But filler ain't masterpiece material, and I don't know about you... but I'm hurting for a masterpiece. ;D

Rachie
19th May 2008, 08:23
I thought the whole idea of Lara Croft was Tomb Raiding...to me that means raiding tombs, finding artifacts and avoiding dangerous traps...they may as well rename it "Lara Croft People Finder - the quest for the long lost mother" the way the franchise is going. Hey why not just get Zip and Alister to just look up her mum on facebook! :lol:

Well, Lara is very into tombs and ancient artifacts, don't worry. She's been into them because her Dad was an archaeologist, and she's been brought up learning about ancient myths and legends and has fallen in love with all things history.

The "Find mother" plot is really just letting us know more about the "girl behind the guns" and who she really is as a character.

Personally, I think it's a pretty good effort to show us who Lara really is.

Mangar The Dark
19th May 2008, 12:51
I don't believe the Lara they have been portraying her as will have an enduring interest in tomb raiding if she succeeds in getting her mother back.

I don't know about that.
In Legend, she's definitely into raiding tombs, to the point of gushing when she sees the ruins in Bolivia ("I'm falling in love all over again!"), and she has a similar reaction in Ghana ("I missed Ghana!")
Yes, she's interested in finding out what happened to her mother, but in the process, she clearly developed a love for tomb raiding, and I don't see her abandoning that when she finds her mother.
Also, she's a grown woman. Do people really think a grown woman is going to want to sit around with her mother all day? Unlikely. Heck, if my mother was in danger or missing, I'd do whatever I could to help her, but after I help her, I wouldn't want to spend every waking moment at her side. I've developed my own life, hobbies, interest, etc. And that doesn't mean I love her any less, it's just part of growing up and developing your own identity.

jayjay119
19th May 2008, 15:14
I don't know about that.
In Legend, she's definitely into raiding tombs, to the point of gushing when she sees the ruins in Bolivia ("I'm falling in love all over again!"), and she has a similar reaction in Ghana ("I missed Ghana!")
Yes, she's interested in finding out what happened to her mother, but in the process, she clearly developed a love for tomb raiding, and I don't see her abandoning that when she finds her mother.
Also, she's a grown woman. Do people really think a grown woman is going to want to sit around with her mother all day? Unlikely. Heck, if my mother was in danger or missing, I'd do whatever I could to help her, but after I help her, I wouldn't want to spend every waking moment at her side. I've developed my own life, hobbies, interest, etc. And that doesn't mean I love her any less, it's just part of growing up and developing your own identity.

I agree. I think this is one of thos topics that we are gonna be disputing for a long while lol

LisaB1962
19th May 2008, 15:16
I don't know. A love of ancient ruins alone does not indicate taking the chances Lara takes. She takes the risks she does because she needs answers, because she (and her father, I imagine) were haunted by Amelia's strange disappearance and were certain archeology could provide answers (perhaps a solution?)

So, it's not whether she loves ancient artifacts and cultures, it's whether she will continue her current lifestyle of throwing caution to the wind "just for the heck of it." I mean, even if she didn't want to sit around with her mum the rest of her life, I don't think she'd run off taking unnecessary risks that could get her killed and leave her mother alone.

Now, suppose she fails--her mother can't come back and/or is killed during the (for want of a better word) rescue. Or even worse, her mother doesn't want to come back. "I'm sorry, daugher. My place is here now." Now, any of those events could definitely make a person develop more psychopathic tendencies. Anger, denial, frustration, disappointment. Lara could be darker than ever. :D

jayjay119
19th May 2008, 15:21
Now, suppose she fails--her mother can't come back and/or is killed during the (for want of a better word) rescue. Or even worse, her mother doesn't want to come back. "I'm sorry, daugher. My place is here now." Now, any of those events could definitely make a person develop more psychopathic tendencies. Anger, denial, frustration, disappointment. Lara could be darker than ever. :D

Well, I myself am veering towards the traumatisatation/ Evolution of her mother. Maybe being in Avalon for so long, not knowing what happend to her has changed her mentally and she will no longer recognise lara. She May be different now, physically being on another plane of existance mnay have given her weird abilities or she may have been possesed by the power there....either way i'm thinking it may be a 'Lara has to kill her mother to save her' irony situation which would definately make her darker!

Mangar The Dark
19th May 2008, 15:44
Now, suppose she fails--her mother can't come back and/or is killed during the (for want of a better word) rescue. Or even worse, her mother doesn't want to come back. "I'm sorry, daugher. My place is here now." Now, any of those events could definitely make a person develop more psychopathic tendencies. Anger, denial, frustration, disappointment. Lara could be darker than ever. :D

I'd love this sort of "less-than-happy" ending for the mother story line. Even though I don't think finding her mother would necessarily put an end to her tomb raiding days, I do think it would be a bit corny to have a touchy-touchy-feel-good-schmaltzy ending, with mother and daughter walking hand in hand into the mansion. It would definitely be more interesting if things went tragically wrong.

LisaB1962
19th May 2008, 16:25
Vive la More Interesting Ending!

It could be really cool if Lara has to kill her mother. Really cool? Did I just say that? Yikes! But better that than schmaltz and cheeze. :thumbsup:

Mangar The Dark
19th May 2008, 17:09
It could be really cool if Lara has to kill her mother. Really cool? Did I just say that? Yikes! But better that than schmaltz and cheeze. :thumbsup:

Yup, it would be really cool. As long as it doesn't feel too much like a scene from Star Wars (Evil Demonic Woman: "Alistair never told you what happened to your mother..." "He told me enough... he told me you killed her!" "No, Lara... I AM YOUR MOTHER! Join me, and we shall rule Avalon as mother and daughter!" "Noooo!!!!")

But yeah, assuming they can find some way to present it as something a bit different, that would be great, and would lead to some really interesting new developments in Lara's personality.

My only concern with that would be that I don't want Lara to become TOO dark to the point of being completely unlikeable. That was her problem in AOD... she was just a miserable, nasty person in that game, and I secretly cheered every time she got burned, impaled, shot, etc.

Imaginary Whisk
19th May 2008, 22:46
The most reasonable way I could see her having to kill her mother is if she becomes a power hungry [Insert Nasty-insult noun here] like Natla...

Lara: "What are we doing tonight mother?"

Amelia: "The same thing we try to do every night Lara... TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!"

*cackles an evil laugh and lightning dances across the sky* :nut:


Ok, this has to be my least serious post on the Underworld forum, I'll shut up now. >__>

Rai
19th May 2008, 23:50
But your idea is not so unreasonable, Imaginary whisk. What if, after spending so many years in Avalon, in a kind of paradise that having been 'rescued' by Lara, and returning to the real world she can no longer handle reality and is driven into madness? Lara then, terribly, unfathomably, has no choice but to kill her own mother?

Perhaps, having been reunited with Lara, who, thinking her mother is safe now, goes off onto an adventure and her mother is tricked by an (as of yet unknown) adversary and used for evil? Amelia, confused and driven to madness is an easy target and goes along with the evil plans of said adversary...

I dunno, maybe, I'm up too late, not thinking clearly...:lol:

Imaginary Whisk
20th May 2008, 00:17
But your idea is not so unreasonable, Imaginary whisk.

I have a strange thought. It could all be a hoax to trick her, and he mom could really be dead. xD

Then Lara could spend all of that time searching for her and then she finally gets to Amelia and saves her. But alas, it's not really Amelia! It's a clone[sorta like the doppleganger, but in disguise(I'm imagining it in and power suit, using a mop's head for a wig and a false mustache) :whistle:] of her that Natla made to get her close to Lara and manipulate Lara or try to assassinate her! :eek:

Of course this would only work if the doppleganger kept that false mustache up at all times! Without it, her cover would be blown... :nut:



Am I unreasonable yet? :D

LisaB1962
20th May 2008, 00:45
I'd like to say how cool are these ideas are but first I have to LOL to this:
"Alistair never told you what happened to your mother..." "He told me enough... he told me you killed her!" "No, Lara... I AM YOUR MOTHER! Join me, and we shall rule Avalon as mother and daughter!" "Noooo!!!!")


:lol:

And this:

Lara: "What are we doing tonight mother?"

Amelia: "The same thing we try to do every night Lara... TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!"

:lol:

OK, with that out of the way, these are very cool ideas. And I agree, we don't want Lara to be unlikable, taking out her anger on the world. But certainly a less idealistic Lara, one who no longer believes in happy endings?

Imaginary Whisk
20th May 2008, 01:09
Well my view of Core's old Lara wasn't that she was a cold and sarcastic tough girl that didn't believe in happy endings. I think that there were times where her character probably did have emotion fall-outs with herself over certain personal issues in her life. In my opinion, the original Lara was just better at masking her mood and pushing personal problems aside so that she could get the job done and enjoy as much of it as she could. That's how I like to think of it anyways. I think CD may be using this personal plot line to set her up to learn a lesson in this area, but that's probably not what's going to happen. :)

As long as the puzzles are genuinely challenging, the controls are causal-player friendly, and there isn't anything too distracting, I'd follow this game to the depths of hell... if the occasion called for it of course. :rolleyes:

[Edit]
Oh by the way, LisaB. Nothing beats Pinky & the Brain and Star Wars reffernces! :lol:

LisaB1962
20th May 2008, 11:54
I call this the "Return of the Jedi" effect. IMO, the movie failed because everyone had three full years to end the story themselves, so Lucas's ending could only disappoint.

Same with Lara's personality. There was so little we knew about it that what we did know could be interpreted in multiple ways. Where some saw a single minded, driven individual in pursuit of a goal, another saw a cold, anti-social b*tch running roughshod over the earth. The vagueness of it allowed for players to basically create Lara's personality themselves. To some it mattered, to others it didn't, but the lack of definition meant it was open to endless speculation.

With this story, there are definite behaviors and emotions and motivations behind them. Some are thrilled because it fits in with their idea of who they always imagined (wanted) Lara to be, other are disappointed because it conflicts with the character they had drawn up for themselves.

It's only natural. ;) But I agree the game's the thing. I've played plenty of games with characters I was less than thrilled with, but they were still fun.

jayjay119
20th May 2008, 16:49
I think seeing the character development of Lara is a good thing, in Legend we saw a younger Lara who was quite naive, trusting and stuck to morels; only killing/attacking/ insulting people who she new weren't innocents like Takamoto in the japan level. We saw a Lara that cared about her friends which we also saw in TR4 with Jean-Yvees. But saw a darker side to her at the end with Amanda (a point which unarguably lead to one of the best quotes in TR, and there are loads!)

Then with the arrival of TRA, we saw a further development in that darkening of Lara's character to the point of her killing a virtual innocent (Larson) just to progress and get her own way.

So the point with CD and really Toby Gard's Lara development plot is just that, we get to see how Lara went from one extreme to another, from who she was in legend to who she was in TRA/1 and who she is now in TRU

An example of this darkening with already existing allies is in TRC when Lara is talking to Zip over the headset in the VCI towers, she is quite sarcastic with him all the time, apposed to the friendship we see in TRL.