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View Full Version : Simple graphics before great graphics and mega loads of loading screens.



IceBallz
19th Mar 2008, 11:23
How many here wants Deus Ex 3 to be more simple in graphics. Just to bring less of the loading screens to the game and to get huge size maps to play in ?!? I actually hope that the graphics will be the last dev objective for Deus Ex 3 and that the cut down of loading screens and make maps even bigger, will be the first dev objective.

gamer0004
19th Mar 2008, 11:58
Dumb question. We're all DX geeks who are still active on DX forums while the game was released 8 years ago :nut:

Edx
19th Mar 2008, 13:47
My PC is too crappy to run HL2 is all its graphical coolness, but the animations of the characters still look really really good.

Really you can be drawn into the world then without amazing graphics as long as the characters are believable and respond well to you. In Deus Ex, this happend with the story in spite of the stiff graphics. What would be great then, would be to have both. Then we're talking!

Kneo24
19th Mar 2008, 19:27
This topic is epic fail. Please lock. Nuff said.

Wgibbsw
19th Mar 2008, 22:03
Amazing graphics are always a bonus but never a necessity. I just hope they perfect the plot, characters and atmosphere before beefing it up with millions of polygons and special effects. After playing DX2 (which I loved btw lol) it's hard to expect anything graphically less than it:whistle:

Gary_Savage
20th Mar 2008, 18:04
This topic is epic fail. Please lock. Nuff said.

It's ironic that I voted "No" to the poll: I was first drawn to DX by its graphics. The PC gaming market, where I lived, was very bad, and DX had the coolest graphics I had seen till then. When my friends and I (we were in high school) first saw a game with what we thought a Latin sounding name, we did not think of much. We only tried it out of sheer boredom. The first PC that we tried it on had an inadequate graphics card, and we only got grainy screens, and poor frame rates, and that, too, in windowing mode. What we saw, however, blew us away!

That little screen, staring at us, showed a place that was far closer to a real hallway (as if it was a grainy image taken with a camera, rather than a rendered image) than what I was used to, from playing HL1. We did not even play through the tutorial, because of the poor picture quality. I guess if I could borrow from the language of GUIs (Graphical User Interface), then I could say that the widgets were so good: the tiles, the fixtures, the carpets looked true to life, rather than cartoonish. We could not wait till one of us got a better graphics card.

A few months later, when one of my friends got DX bundled with his graphics card, we were blown away, again: those really were the most photorealistic graphics we had ever seen. That was how I got drawn into the game. When I borrowed my friend's CD, I found that I had to restart the game every few reloads, to get rid of rendering errors, but I still did not mind: certainly not with all that realism of the aim wavering, and the reduction in wavering of the sniper scope if I was sitting down, and an even further reduction if I was pressed against a wall. A few days later I gladly spent money I had saved up over 9 months (I counted this) to buy myself a copy. I remember the surprise on the cash register guy's face, at a Virgin Megamall, when I payed about half the money in coins.

It was only after that, that I realized how great the storyline was, and how deep the story was, and how much it borrowed from reality. It taught me a number of things, organizations, etc. I learned about the Trilateral Commission, and the Council on Foreign Relations, from this game (I suppose kids who grew up in America might not have needed a game for that). After college, I realized that all that talk in the game about the Illuminati scientists were actually scant references to the secrecy practices in industry. Besides a bundle of joyous moments, this game has influenced my choice of college major; a field that I am still in.

So you see, while graphics may not be important to you and me, I think it is important to getting young/fresh blood into the fan base. If not for the cool "widgets", I would not have even given a chance to this game with a "Latin" sounding name. Now, as a long time fan, I certainly would not want some high schooler missing out because there was nothing in the game that he/she could initially connect to. It is only after drawing the youngster in, that the game could show itself to be the next thing in the evolution of games. I certainly saw DX1, when I first got it, as the next thing in the evolution of first person games, along these lines:

Quake (mindless shooting)
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V
HL1 (don't shoot everything: the scientists are your friends)
and Soldier of Fortune (a much later game with specific body part damage)
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V
Thief1 ("Use your brain, for God's sake," as I would say to myself; choose your actions wisely)
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V
DX1 (a CULMINATION of all of the above, and much, much more)

Not that this list is exhaustive (nor is it intended to be), but you see how potent that graphics of DX1 were, in introducing the DX experience to a bunch of new fans?

rhalibus
20th Mar 2008, 18:47
This topic is epic fail. Please lock. Nuff said.

Hey--a question as fundamental as this deserves its own thread! :)

I agree with Gary_Savage's post--I actually thought DX's graphics were great the first time I saw screen shots back in '98 due to the implied complexity of the levels (like the Versalife lobby), not the textures.

Deus Ex also changed my life as well, and has greatly influenced my ideas about what is possible and important (I'm a filmmaker). Let's hope Eidos Montreal understands that the DX community (and gamers as a whole) would be better served by game complexity over hi-res normal-mapped memory-heavy screenshot-frendly textures.

Kneo24
20th Mar 2008, 19:27
The reason I stated this topic was epic fail because it was done to death when this section of the forums initially opened. The same people are still preaching for less than stellar graphics, thinking that they take an importance over gameplay in the developement cycle when that simply isn't the case.

Graphics and gameplay are both equally worked on. There are too many things that can hold one or the other back in a finished product.

Like I said, epic fail.

Blade_hunter
20th Mar 2008, 19:33
Anyway the graphics arn't very bad some game engines have good graphics and more later these engines can be enhanced to play with more features like DX1 with it's unreal engine 1 wh have two years between the game unreal and DX
This adds greater areas, an enhanced physics engine, graphically we have some loses, but the gameplay still better and inovates the video gaming.
This game is the best for me with the unreal series, red faction 1, SOF 1, SS2, SW , Sin, blood series and duke nukem.

IceBallz
21st Mar 2008, 08:57
I actually buyed DX1 for it's open storyline and the open huge maps. Then that the graphics was great, was a bonus. But still the graphics in DX1 was very simple. Not much of different textures for different kind of wall stuctures or floor, like a example. Or not much of lighting effects and shaders. It was most of it simple, but still nice for the eye. But the value in gameplay was making people forgot the lack in the textures and other graphical wonders in DX1. The graphic engines have been worked out the last eight years, to today. But that don't meaning that we must lay all our creativity to the graphics. Instead of graphics they could lay more power to new ideas to create games bigger and more interactive. Like work more on the 1st person view, sound effects depending on what your character is doing (like sound made from your jacket when moving close to wall and louder sound in higher speed), make maps bigger, lay more floors into buildings, lay more npc in game, get more npc's with a character (contacts) in maps, more gadgets, visible laserbeams from lasersights when nightgoogles is on (even enemies), delay to gun shots depending on range, bullet drop, breathing sound from character (more when exhausted), visible arms and legs (in 1st person view), leaning and role sideways when laying down, weapon jamming (sometimes even to AI), movement speed set into mouse scroll (3rd button), randomed levels of poor AI and great AI, randomed placements of NPC's and enemies (even randomed patrol routes), give enemies possibility to randomly place traps (like wallmines and beens on the floor to alert them with cracking sound), randomly give enemies nightgoogles (mostly into crews), etc, etc, etc, etc...

Can come with thousends more ideas and nothing with great graphics to do with.

Just to bring up a gameplay value to Deus Ex 3, that makes us to play it twice or hundred times again.

But if we always want great graphics, the game will never advance in gameplay value, only graphics.

gamer0004
21st Mar 2008, 10:22
Technically, the graphics were outdated. However, because of the talent of the devs the game was still very good-looking. Same thing with a game like WoW. Technically, the graphics are pure crap. But, because the devs are really talented that's not a problem, because the atmosphere in the game is brilliant.
And I think they should do the same with DX3. The texture's don't need to be as good as Crysis' textures, as long as the atmosphere is right. And I think that, looking at the choice of engine, they are going the right way.

IceBallz
22nd Mar 2008, 07:27
I really hope so too. I just hope the devs get this info from us.

jordan_a
22nd Mar 2008, 12:27
For my part, former graphics from 2005 or 2006 for instance, really were sufficient.

They were already really nice (Oblivion, HL2, Fear, DOOM III, Far Cry) and if implemented now, would free some disc space and allow the developers to focus on the essential. But... it's hopeless as it goes against the current trend. :o

Personally I still think Shenmue 2, Soulcalibur, Starfox adventures, Rogue Leader, Kameo and many others look awesome.:rolleyes:

IceBallz
22nd Mar 2008, 12:54
For my part, former graphics from 2005 or 2006 for instance, really were sufficient.

They were already really nice (Oblivion, HL2, Fear, DOOM III, Far Cry) and if implemented now, would free some disc space and allow the developers to focus on the essential. But... it's hopeless as it goes against the current trend. :o

Personally I still think Shenmue 2, Soulcalibur, Starfox adventures, Rogue Leader, Kameo and many others look awesome.:rolleyes:

Yes. One more with me. I hope, like many other fans hope here. That Eidos breaks the following of freaking graphics trend with the best graphics of the year and goes for new great ideas into gameplay. Sure the graphics matters in some grade. But like Jordan A says, - Former graphics from 2005 or 2006 for instance, really were sufficient.

Like me would say it, it still are. Just bring more of gameplay value into this grade of graphics, like bigger maps and inplant all new gameplay ideas. Then we will see a blockbuster in the gaming world, when Deus Ex 3 been released. Have written some ideas for my part, like as many of them are really sweet.

One more idea. How about make enemies with poor AI go and watch after you. If you shoot a bullet from far away, with a silencer and aim against something close to the poor AI. Then this AI will go for search after you, where he heard the bullet hit come from. In this way you can separate one of two enemies, one with great AI and one with poor AI. Like for a example.

Gary_Savage
23rd Mar 2008, 06:39
For my part, former graphics from 2005 or 2006 for instance, really were sufficient.

I too agree that we are not after the latest graphics. There is something that I would like, however, and I will describe it, since I cannot point a finger on it: when my friends and I first tried the DX1 demo, the computer graphics card was not up to the job, and we only got very grainy graphics, in a window (not even a full screen), and we got a very poor frame rate. Despite these things combining to make the demo unplayable, there was something in those images that we saw, that made us want to get back to the game when any of us got a better graphics card. The graphics just looked so cool, with the way the tiled hallway, the glass windows, the furniture, fixtures, and carpets looked. The tiled hallway looked more like something from a video feed, rather than a cartoonish animation. The carpeted room, when I picked up my first nano key, actually looked like a room that could have been in an office (barring that big, metal door). Now, I so not know the technical terms (object models, textures, whatever), but I do want that "WOW" effect out of DX3.

This wow effect was done in DX1 with outdated graphics, so I do not see why it cannot be done again.

SageSavage
23rd Mar 2008, 09:20
Right, it should be awesome in every department which includes the graphics. Every AAA-title must aim for total awesomeness.

Kevyne-Shandris
23rd Mar 2008, 10:47
At one time I was all for rich graphics, but after trying to mod the newer graphics in games -- I'd take the old .tga and .bmp formats anyday. Three freaking graphics per ingame graphic needed. It's just too much work, and it still looks inferior to the real thing.

Just up the models to today's standards. The mega textures can be an addon if folks prefer, but NEVER let the graphics override the storyline of DX3.

Sacrifice the graphics if need be to hire good content writers. Put the time into the story -- please, please, please. Want to come from the game with that, "WOW!", feeling I got after finishing the game the first time.

AGH! This game is like a drug -- want it soooooo badly!!