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pauldenton
22nd Feb 2008, 20:40
personally i hated the game intensly, but i did like these two features

1. the hovering security bot

2. spiderbombs

what would you keep from invisible war for DX3 if anything?

Lo Bruto
22nd Feb 2008, 20:46
Some Augmentations (Like that health leech, bot domination) and Weapons Mods. (fragmentary rounds, that thing that breaks glass etc..)

The spiderbombs are cool too... personally I loved them popping around with the Widowmaker alternate fire.

jordan_a
22nd Feb 2008, 20:52
One simple thing: When you duck and move you make some noise.

O.m.a.r
22nd Feb 2008, 21:26
Things to Keep from IW.

-Black Market Biomods.

-Bolt casters.

-NG/ Or some kind of interactive A.I.

-Melting Glass mod.

-Secret Weapons.

Caradoc
22nd Feb 2008, 21:35
The hovering security bot was really scary. So yes it is definitely a keeper :)

Illegal black market augmentations. The biomod system in IW was terribly flawed as one could remove his mods anytime and replace them on the fly, but the concepts of illegal and legal augmentations was intresting. I think devs should expand it furher. Maybe these illegal expermental augmentations could be a lot more powerfull than the ordinary stuff, but at the same they would have really serious side effects like draining health/poisoning you when active,, messing up your pretty looks permanitely (ordinary people would be terrified and disgusted when you talked to them). Or illegal augmentation could be affecting your your other skills or augs. For example if you installed an illegal droid control aug in your brains, your other mental abilities like hacking skill would suffer penalties or aiming with rifles would be harder. Or the eyes augmentation slot such as targeting would disfunction if droid control aug was active etc. Because every aug instal would be permanent you would have to think really hard if the benefits would be greater than the risks.

I also liked the weapon mod that let me shoot through the glass without breaking it. A great asset for a stealth focused player :)

Xcom
22nd Feb 2008, 21:35
I agree with almost everything mentioned above.

Spiderbots were probably the coolest things in your arsenal. :lol:

I also want Omar to stay (if possible, depending on sequel/prequel scenarios).

jd10013
22nd Feb 2008, 21:55
weapons mods like the glass destabilizer that did other things than just raise accuracy or range
hovering bots
spiderbots
the smoke bomb, and flash bomb alt fire mode on the shotgun and smg. In IW they used to much ammo to be used much, but with a decent ammo system could have made for some real interesting uses.

Unstoppable
23rd Feb 2008, 05:36
Warren Spector. Nuff said.

Blade_hunter
23rd Feb 2008, 07:12
A poisoned knife, some other special items ?
the food items
the leech drone

VodunLoas
23rd Feb 2008, 10:18
I liked the ability that was in IW, where you could grab ledges and climb up.

jd10013
23rd Feb 2008, 11:52
I liked the ability that was in IW, where you could grab ledges and climb up.

mantling. an yes, should be in every game with a first person view.

JoeGreensKiller
23rd Feb 2008, 19:55
Id like to see the cd case wrapped in the same cardboard used in the IW packageing.....lol:nut:

WildcatPhoenix
23rd Feb 2008, 20:13
*Off-topic*

Love the name, Joe! :D

*On-topic*

I too hold an intense hatred of IW, but there were some bright spots, namely:

1. Hoverbots- Great idea, well executed. I especially dug the headlights.
2. Unique weapons- Anything that encourages exploration is great in my book. These should be found in extremely hard-to-find areas or should require completion of a difficult sub-quest to acquire.
3. Bot domination aug- This was great, and I think most fans would like to see it return in DX3 if at all possible.

-Wildcat

v.dog
23rd Feb 2008, 20:55
mantling. an yes, should be in every game with a first person view.Hear, hear. How often I have hated having to slog through the armies of my foes, all because I couldn't climb over a waist-high wall. :mad2:

The hover bots were well done, and I used the leech drone a lot (it didn't look very drone like tho'). The black market biomods didn't live up to their promise of side effects, but that's a good thing.

Angel/0A
24th Feb 2008, 00:08
Yes for mantling.


The black market biomods didn't live up to their promise of side effects, but that's a good thing.

If it were more of a sandbox game, there could be legal restrictions on the black market augmentations, but then again that isn't what Deus Ex is.

a_noise_severe
25th Feb 2008, 19:25
i genuinely enjoyed IW even though it's obviously not a patch on its predecessor. anyway here is my list:

1. choice of male/female character. i know it seems relatively insignificant, but i am a sixteen year old girl and it's difficult to immerse yourself in a first person game if your character keeps making masculine grunt noises. no offence JC, you stud, you. i did try to play IW as a male alex d once, but i couldn't bear it.

2. mantling! (i admit i didn't know the correct word for this til i read this topic)

3. being able to pick up and throw dead bodies which then land in a wonderfully limp way. i had a huge amount of fun throwing unsightly corpses into nearby bins once outside the heron's loft building.

4. black market biomods, although i never got any myself...

5. i really liked the use of the kidneythieves' music and the NG Resonance character like someone mentioned before. the ambient music of the original DX was excellent but the use of real songs in IW was good too. i also liked the fact that NG Resonance was a mainsteam pop star whose music was essentially industrial/metal. awesome :D (i hadn't heard of the kidneythieves before i wikipedia'd IW either, so there you are).

that's all for now...also, are the people who keep saying spiderbots kidding? i HATED those stupid things, they were the bane of my life.

gamer0004
25th Feb 2008, 19:49
One simple thing: When you duck and move you make some noise.

Please no, because it made sneaking almost impossible.
Or if they do, do it right (and not so unrealistic) and the player should be able to choose real sneaking so you can't be heard but move even slower.

AaronJ
25th Feb 2008, 20:47
The atmosphere. It's so much better.

jordan_a
25th Feb 2008, 22:26
The athmosphere was quite good. Mako Ballistics was a great stage.

Falkenherz
26th Feb 2008, 11:39
Great to see that some still like IW also a bit.

I would love to see NG resonance again; it was so scary when I met the original and thought "The AI is so much nicer and so much more intelligent.."

I loved to be able to choose whether I was to be seen or not. Hated some cutscenes because of that.

I loved scrambling, hacking, everything which involved turning their weapons against them.

I loved hiding the unconscious/corpses; sadly it didn´t have consequences when not hiding them.

I loved to smack the uninvolved people unconscious and to set the evil paladins aflame with the hellboltcaster :eek:

Leo.

mouse
1st Mar 2008, 17:59
...also, are the people who keep saying spiderbots kidding? i HATED those stupid things, they were the bane of my life.

it's more fun to use them than having them used against you :lol:

Christopher546
2nd Mar 2008, 03:01
Let me contribute a few smaller things that I liked:

1. Items dropped separately from bodies. I was just playing the original and was annoyed that I couldn't pick up bodies without first picking up whatever useless items they had. Dropping the items separately solves that problem and is somewhat more realistic too.

2. Triggering grenades with gunfire, etc. Adds possibilities for emergent gameplay. I remember times when I killed a trooper and then shot the grenade they dropped to create a spiderbot/blow up other troopers/whatever.

mouse
2nd Mar 2008, 12:35
Let me contribute a few smaller things that I liked:

1. Items dropped separately from bodies.

a great improvement, indeed... I would like to have the possibility to search the bodies for additional items too.

- NG-resonance AI, I loved how it was part of the conspiracy
- the toxic drone, as I usually attack from hidden places instead of running with blazing arms it's very useful
- the hacking/neuro interface... though I'd prefered some kind of minigame instead of simple 'activating the target'
- food stacking in one slot ... of course you dont need this if you return to the old item management
- Cairo... I dont know why so many people disliked that location. I loved the contrast between the hypermodern archology full of 'elite citizens' and the normal population which dreamed to be part of the elite or actively opposes it. Some similar location should be in DX3, as gated communities taken to the extreme should be common in a dystopia ;)
- the bots are much cooler as in DX1... nuff said
- choosing gender of the character... as I already play like a chick I should look like one ... besides this, thats one more reason for a 3rd person view :D

SageSavage
2nd Mar 2008, 12:45
I would like to have the possibility to search the bodies for additional items too. I think the idea was about items that you won't find by searching the victims body but by looking what he/she may have dropped at the moment of attack (eg. the weapon) so it means that you have to search the surrounding area too.

I don't like this system very much. Maybe it'd be a bit more realistic but I prefer the more user firendly old system. In Crysis for example it makes sense since you don't have to search the bodies too but having to do both is bad for the gameflow I suppose.

mouse
2nd Mar 2008, 13:10
I think the idea was about items that you won't find by searching the victims body but by looking what he/she may have dropped at the moment of attack (eg. the weapon) so it means that you have to search the surrounding area too.

I don't like this system very much. Maybe it'd be a bit more realistic but I prefer the more user firendly old system. In Crysis for example it makes sense since you don't have to search the bodies too but having to do both is bad for the gameflow I suppose.

what I wanted to say is that I liked the idea of dropping the equipment... so that you can move the body without looting it first. But on the other hand, I liked to seach the bodies for additional item.

one example: you shoot/back-stab/knock down a guard -> the guard drops the equipment he/she had used until then -> if there's no time for a thourough body search, you move the guard into a dark corner (impossible in DX!) -> there you'll find some additional equipment like ammo, food etc, the guard had in the pockets

a_noise_severe
2nd Mar 2008, 13:18
what I wanted to say is that I liked the idea of dropping the equipment... so that you can move the body without looting it first. But on the other hand, I liked to seach the bodies for additional item.

one example: you shoot/back-stab/knock down a guard -> the guard drops the equipment he/she had used until then -> if there's no time for a thourough body search, you move the guard into a dark corner (impossible in DX!) -> there you'll find some additional equipment like ammo, food etc, the guard had in the pockets

i agree, it's much more realistic that they would drop whatever was in their hand but still have stuff on them.

also, i liked the seattle level, but it needed to be much bigger and more explorable, like hong kong. i felt kind of trapped in it and there wasn't really anywhere to go in upper seattle apart from the club and that rubbish subway station...

Anarky
2nd Mar 2008, 17:05
- The atmosphere: mysteries and conspiracies

- A good story with moral dilemmas

Also I would like to have to deal with IA characters, something like GOTO in kotor 2, that would fit well into the world of Deus Ex.

Maybe a war between androids and biomod guys...

Azrepheal
2nd Mar 2008, 17:45
Maybe a war between androids and biomod guys...

Theres always that eternal question of 'what defines a human?'. After all, we wouldn't consider Daedalus, Icarus, Helios or the Oracle humans; but what would seperates them and a human who has had his entire body augmented (be it mechanical or nano) if only the mind remains? How much of your body would you have to change before you're considered no longer human?

Anarky
3rd Mar 2008, 18:50
Theres always that eternal question of 'what defines a human?'. After all, we wouldn't consider Daedalus, Icarus, Helios or the Oracle humans; but what would seperates them and a human who has had his entire body augmented (be it mechanical or nano) if only the mind remains? How much of your body would you have to change before you're considered no longer human?

yeah that is a nice dilemmas to explore, and in both direction

- when a robot (or a IA) has a mind so complete and similar to a human brain should we consider it human? should he have the right of a human being or still only be a machine?

- and like Azrepheal said : could a human be so modified to be considered a machine?

Mindmute
3rd Mar 2008, 19:07
Theres always that eternal question of 'what defines a human?'. After all, we wouldn't consider Daedalus, Icarus, Helios or the Oracle humans; but what would seperates them and a human who has had his entire body augmented (be it mechanical or nano) if only the mind remains? How much of your body would you have to change before you're considered no longer human?

To some point there is already that topic in DX1, one of the best examples is in Everett's journal about Morpheus, where Everett wrote that it seemed like the AI was growing more "human".

I'd lvoe to see it explored a bit more myself with modified humans, maybe with a similar stigma to what Nexus had in "Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?".

Lovethor
5th Mar 2008, 10:33
universal ammo :nut:

I would like to see the Black market biomods. Really some ILLEGAL that the police will pester you about or try to raid some dealers location

MiB
5th Mar 2008, 13:40
Hi there, first post!

Wow, Deus ex 3, i thought that after the disaster of DX2 they were going to abandon the game... now its time to exorcise the errors!

Good!

Things to keep from DX and DX2:

- The atmosphere. always at night, dark with a sense of human despair like in Blade Runner, the sense of that the society is going down the drain while the wealthy plan to do the next step in mankind evolution their own particular way forgetting the opinion of the masses...

- The concept that, YOU are the most advanced "mech" and there are few other persons modified, and most of the are older modifications than you.
i Would not like to see a game filled with modded people. will loose the human dilemma stuff if everybody were ´borgs...

- The conspiracy plot.
That was awesome in DX1. of course it gets harder in dx3 to surprise us as players, because we ARE expecting conspiracy plot but hey... thinktanks get to work! :whistle:

- The ability to inflict changes on the plot that will save or kill friends and people. I hated when in DX1 my pilot Jock died in the chopper explosion. i crazed reloading until i found out how to stop that by locating that damn tech... grrrr!

- The guns, were different and for some purpose all of them. I tend to minimize kills so i used a lot the crossbow with tranquilizer darts or the prod. I wish i could have mor ammo for those two.

- the different ammo types. C´mon.... the way i see it, having universal ammo is not real, not fair and also it breaks a lot the strategy to follow.
not to mention how quick you can get out of ammo with bigger guns and then what? Whack them around?

- All the cross-references to real organizations alive or not like the illuminati or the templars.

I suggest to study all the history and actual "suppossed" behavior of the Masons. its supposed that the masons are the evolution of the illuminati and the templars here in europe.

if im not wrong, Washington was one of them. ( see the movie National treasure also).

- the looks. Just love the phrase " mumble mumble about performance ... than to frighten them with our baggy clothes that makes us look bigger than we really are- Wonderful.

^_^

jd10013
5th Mar 2008, 21:38
universal ammo :nut:

I would like to see the Black market biomods. Really some ILLEGAL that the police will pester you about or try to raid some dealers location

I'd be happy if they went back to the original idea where the black market biomods would have negative side effects. the choice weather or not to install one was originally supposed to be a difficult one. a matter of if the better (than the regular mods) effects were worth the particular price.

jordan_a
5th Mar 2008, 22:36
Please no, because it made sneaking almost impossible.Or if they do, do it right (and not so unrealistic) and the player should be able to choose real sneaking so you can't be heard but move even slower.You have a biomod for moving smoothly. Every step you take makes a noise, and that was a very good idea on IW.

IcarusIsLookingForYou
6th Mar 2008, 01:04
You have a biomod for moving smoothly. Every step you take makes a noise, and that was a very good idea on IW.

I don't see why sneaking should be completely dependent on an aug. I think it's safe to assume that we'll be playing as some type of agent in DX3 and that he/she is highly trained at what he/she does. So wouldn't it make sense that he/she inherently knows how to sneak without any augs? An aug to supplement/improve your non-augmented sneaking makes more sense to me.

gamer0004
6th Mar 2008, 17:28
You have a biomod for moving smoothly. Every step you take makes a noise, and that was a very good idea on IW.

No, it wasn't a very good idea. Because of this you were forced to install that biomod if you wanted to sneak. Which is a bad thing. I'm, I think, the only one ever to finish DX:IW without killing anyone (with arms), because sneaking doesn't work and is very annoying and frustrating. Especially because you KNOW it should be possible to move without making sound IRL, but in the game you can't.

EDIT: I hadn't seen your post, icarus i l f y so I posted almost the same thing...

IcarusIsLookingForYou
6th Mar 2008, 21:20
EDIT: I hadn't seen your post, icarus i l f y so I posted almost the same thing...

Think nothing of it. If anything, it further drives the message.

jordan_a
7th Mar 2008, 07:05
I'm, I think, the only one ever to finish DX:IW without killing anyone (with arms).Is that so? :scratch:

So wouldn't it make sense that he/she inherently knows how to sneak without any augs?That's right.

IcarusIsLookingForYou
7th Mar 2008, 17:44
That's right.

Then Alex Denton must've been a clumsy buffoon with a broken leg and diarrhea whilst wearing lead filled tap dancing shoes because close range sneaking was made next to impossible without the sneaking aug. Sneaking shouldn't be as easy as simply crouch walking, but it should be doable without forcing the player to install an aug. What if the player is exceptionally skilled and doesn't need the aug to pull it off consistently? They'd have to waste an aug slot for nothing.

I think IW had the right idea going, it just took it way too far.

minus0ne
7th Mar 2008, 19:11
Don't forget that many on the EM team helped develop Splinter Cell games, so if there's ANYTHING we should expect from DX3, it'd be a kick-ass stealth/sneaking system.

I don't mind sneaking being hard to do (in fact it should logically be the harder path), perhaps something that has to be developed during the game (like a skill). Sneaking would've probably been a skill in IW, if they would've implemented a skill system - they obviously wanted sneaking to be hard (and failed miserably by making it a biomod).

It'd be nice to have a true Thief/Splinter Cell stealth system in DX3 though, here's hoping.

jordan_a
7th Mar 2008, 19:21
If you ask my the best stealth system was in Operation Flashpoint. At least in that game you could be spotted from hundreds of meters. :D

IcarusIsLookingForYou
7th Mar 2008, 20:39
Don't forget that many on the EM team helped develop Splinter Cell games, so if there's ANYTHING we should expect from DX3, it'd be a kick-ass stealth/sneaking system.

I don't mind sneaking being hard to do (in fact it should logically be the harder path), perhaps something that has to be developed during the game (like a skill). Sneaking would've probably been a skill in IW, if they would've implemented a skill system - they obviously wanted sneaking to be hard (and failed miserably by making it a biomod).

It'd be nice to have a true Thief/Splinter Cell stealth system in DX3 though, here's hoping.

I had no idea the guys on the EM team worked on Splinter Cell. That's really good news to hear. Perhaps all is not lost...

Your explanation for why sneaking was poorly implemented in IW is probably the best one I've heard. Having a sneak skill is an excellent idea for balancing the difficulty. Hell, bringing back skills in general is perhaps the single best thing the devs could do.

Jordan also brings up a good point with the Operation Flashpoint example. It would probably be a good idea to have enemies who can see farther than 20 yards in front of themselves.

Gary_Savage
7th Mar 2008, 22:10
If you ask my the best stealth system was in Operation Flashpoint. At least in that game you could be spotted from hundreds of meters. :D

I too liked the gritty environments in Operation Flashpoint. I remember running scared, with the enemies swarming all over the area, after blowing up a bridge they were crossing (by laser designation). I remember them not knowing where I was, and searching all over the place. I remember hiding under a tree while one of their attack helicopters flew overhead. I remember creeping and crouching my way out of the area, knowing that being spotted would mean one shot, one kill. Even a flesh wound could take you out, from massive bleeding. I remember dumping my laser designator (I remember thinking that that would let me move faster), and taking refuge in (well, getting into) the house of a friendly local, before making my way out. I remember being afraid of being spotted even when I was so far away from the enemy that I had to use binoculars to barely make them out in the distance. That was scary, and a very good stealth experience.

Not only did the night missions require stealth, but also the ones by day, when you could be taken out by a sniper from a long, long, long way away. This is why I suggested day missions in DX3, (hopefully) in another thread. Another thing that I liked in Op:Flashpoint was that the bullets could not be seen, in flight. In DX1 the bullets were like tracers; I did not like that too much. I would like others' opinions on this.

Yes, these ideas are not from IW, but I had to point out what a great impact an enemy's ability to see far can have on a stealth player's gaming experience.

Also, I would like to see enemies in DX3 to call in reinforcements from all over the map, like they did in Thief: The Dark Project. There, if you let a guard escape you, the whole mansion would be on high alert. I would also like to see the AI use team tactics on you. To Devs: is it possible to have the AI lean to a side, and shoot from behind cover, like players can do in DX1?




Besides that, since some folks from Splinter Cell are working on this project, I am wondering if the community would like for them to make some missions where you cannot kill anyone (or any non-combatant), like when you are infiltrating your own government's facility. Just curious.

jordan_a
7th Mar 2008, 23:07
That's what this is all about. Challenge, realism, a story.

Gary_Savage
7th Mar 2008, 23:18
Please no, because it made sneaking almost impossible.
Or if they do, do it right (and not so unrealistic) and the player should be able to choose real sneaking so you can't be heard but move even slower.

This probably cannot be realized at this point, but I was thinking what if there really is a sneak mode, and which you can improve through skills? In first person games you can walk, or you can run. Likewise, how about a third mode, which can be used while standing, or crouching (or maybe even while creeping)? Just as in real life, when you want to move quietly, you move in ways that do not look normal (like doing side steps, tip-toeing, or using the sides of the feet), how about the player's game character can do this, with the penalty that if people see you doing this they get suspicious, and police starts harassing you? As your skills improve that amount of noise you make in your sneaking mode could be made to go down. Also, (at least when you are unskilled) your sneaking speed should be lower than your normal speed. Plus, enemies should be able to hear you if you ready your gun (since it makes all those clicking sounds, as in DX1) if you are near enough to them, even if they cannot see you.

What does everyone else think about this kind of sneaking system?

IcarusIsLookingForYou
8th Mar 2008, 01:16
What does everyone else think about this kind of sneaking system?

That's pretty much the way I figured it would work well. It makes perfect sense to me that a bum on the street who sees you tip toeing behind a patrolling cop with a bowie knife would react BEFORE you slit the cop's throat. Of course, this isn't just an issue of the sneaking system, but of AI. If you ask me, getting the sneaking down is going to be the easy part for the devs...

SgtWildey
8th Mar 2008, 03:15
I'd keep Alex D. I'm sure he won't have the leading role in 3 but Alex is a little more sensible (or believable as a person) than JC was in the first. After the Great Advance, Alex could be the first to reject Helios after he sees that the reproduction of man and machine is redundant in a single consciousness, but that's just how I roll. That's me. I wasn't disappointed in Alex like I thought I would be so I guess I have faith in the devs to start from scratch.
I don't have a whole lot of complaints for this franchise. For me, the intrigue of the story line and how the game copes with your decisions made it's other problems forgivable.
I'd like to see more conversation vs. consequence (more like KOTR, less like Fable) in 3. I'd keep the spiderbombs but give them the option for a lethal/nonlethal takedown.
Obviously we have to drop the corridor experience of IW but that doesn't mean to go to the other extreme and sacrifice depth for size. Yeah, it's great San Andreas is so big but it's the same game no matter where you are on the map which affects it's replayability. I'd definitely want to keep it's hybrid of RPG/FPS in a limited environment, that is to say map to map gameplay.
I'd like to think that there would be a handful of agents that are so modified with microscopic bots that they appear like what's-his-face in T2.
I'd keep the option to work for one or all factions open and would like to see more emotion or even panic from the employers than the usual condescending butt chewing you usually get in IW.
Fix the physics, but keep the science.
I personally didn't mind the vagueness of my first time through IW. It gave me reason to go back and analyze the details. Not being able to see a whole lot the first time through is fine with me in any game. :whistle:

SgtWildey
8th Mar 2008, 03:21
I'd keep Alex D. I'm sure he won't have the leading role in 3 but Alex is a little more sensible (or believable as a person) than JC was in the first. After the Great Advance, Alex could be the first to reject Helios after he sees that the reproduction of man and machine is redundant in a single consciousness, but that's just how I roll. That's me. I wasn't disappointed in Alex like I thought I would be so I guess I have faith in the devs to start from scratch.
I don't have a whole lot of complaints for this franchise. For me, the intrigue of the story line and how the game copes with your decisions made it's other problems forgivable.
I'd like to see more conversation vs. consequence (more like KOTR, less like Fable) in 3. I'd keep the spiderbombs but give them the option for a lethal/nonlethal takedown.
Obviously we have to drop the corridor experience of IW but that doesn't mean to go to the other extreme and sacrifice depth for size. Yeah, it's great San Andreas is so big but it's the same game no matter where you are on the map which affects it's replayability. I'd definitely want to keep it's hybrid of RPG/FPS in a limited environment, that is to say map to map gameplay.
I'd like to think that there would be a handful of agents that are so modified with microscopic bots that they appear like what's-his-face in T2.
I'd keep the option to work for one or all factions open and would like to see more emotion or even panic from the employers than the usual condescending butt chewing you usually get in IW.
Fix the physics, but keep the science.
I personally didn't mind the vagueness of my first time through IW. It gave me reason to go back and analyze the details. Not being able to see a whole lot the first time through is fine with me in any game. :whistle:

gamer0004
8th Mar 2008, 19:45
That's pretty much the way I figured it would work well. It makes perfect sense to me that a bum on the street who sees you tip toeing behind a patrolling cop with a bowie knife would react BEFORE you slit the cop's throat. Of course, this isn't just an issue of the sneaking system, but of AI. If you ask me, getting the sneaking down is going to be the easy part for the devs...

Yeah this is the sneak system I'd like to see in DX3. But, above all, it should be possible to sneak even if your skill is low! It is essentially that DX3 can be completed without augs, items or skills because else it isn't a real DX.

@ SgtWildey: I don't mind not knowing everything on the first playthrough. That wasn't the case in DX either. But I do want to know things that are crucial to the story. In HL2, for instance, I get "rescued" by some guy. But why? Why would I want to be rescued? And who the hell is this guy who talks to me like I'm his best friend? Of course I hadn't played HL1, but because of that the stroy didn't make sense and after some maps I stopped playing the game.
In DX:IW, I was at Tarsus academy. But why? And what was it's use? To train augmentated agents, but for what? Why was I there, and not someone else? Had I chosen for it?
I didn't know.

GruntOwner
9th Mar 2008, 16:35
Alex's incredible skill at the art of throwing. One of the only satisfying things I found on that game was just to piss about lobbing bodies at people. And I had to do it regularly because otherwise the ammo would be hidden under them. If there was even ammo there to be honest, for some reason unless they've actually fired their weapon, there is no ammo. As for spiderbombs, I have to decline because I hate what they did to those poor little guys in IW. Why the hell did they dance madly when they found you, and more importantly, why did they rave when they were firing at you?

Mantling
The Physics
Sectret Weapons
A Permenant Light Source

Well, Those are the only redeeming qualities I can think of. I kinda developed a grudge against that game when the pistol took 3 headshots to drop a seeker, but could still take on a bot. As for the alt fire, that was popular in the 90s, now it's just not that interesting. personally, I think it ruins the game by throwing in gimiks which only offer a few new options. I would rather have those options granted through my own inginuety, not pressing 'f'.

IcarusIsLookingForYou
9th Mar 2008, 19:18
Alex's incredible skill at the art of throwing. One of the only satisfying things I found on that game was just to piss about lobbing bodies at people.

When IW first came out, rag doll physics were state of the art. Now it's become gimicky and kind of cheap looking. Besides, DX3 should be going for more realism. A person should do more than say, "Hey, quit it," when you throw a corpse or chair in their face. Also, the object shouldn't just bounce off the person. It should knock them down, or even better, the AI should react in a realistic manner by either attempting to dodge or even trying to catch the corpse/object (similar to what Lucasarts is doing with the Euphoria Engine for Force Unleashed).

Sorry if I didn't mention anything I'd like to bring back from IW, but there wasn't really much I liked about it...

pauldenton
10th Mar 2008, 09:05
rag doll physics were state of the art. Now it's become gimicky and kind of cheap looking. Besides, DX3 should be going for more realism.

rag doll physics when done well DO add more realism! unfortunately they are not done well often enough and they over exagerate the physics so you end up with something unnatural but more dramatic.

but phisics done realistically using true simulation of real life add just that, realism. hardly a gimmick!

minus0ne
11th Mar 2008, 00:24
rag doll physics when done well DO add more realism! unfortunately they are not done well often enough and they over exagerate the physics so you end up with something unnatural but more dramatic.
Atm it's still just gimicky. HL2 didn't change that and neither did Crysis (gimmicky x100000! :p ). It's hard, not to say impossible to come up with anything more than that since these "real physics" are just very general, inaccurate approximations of physics models. We're not even close to real physics yet.

but phisics done realistically using true simulation of real life add just that, realism. hardly a gimmick!
Perhaps in a decade when we've all got plenty of CPU cores to dedicate to physics simulation it can become more. Not now or in the coming years, that's just wishful thinking.

It'd be nice if they could at least make DX3's physics engine less ludicrous (ie shooting someone with a pistol will send him or her flying) and exaggerated, perhaps include a HL2 style physics puzzle, but other than that I don't want them to spend too much effort on this "important aspect" of the game, but rather spend that time on other things.

IceBallz
22nd Mar 2008, 06:59
Simply. Zipp, zero, nada of it.

:eek:

madeye
25th Mar 2008, 15:42
The black market/Omar. They're cool beans.

"Always On" Augs.

Spiderbots.

I really can't think of anything else... I just finishing playing DX2 last week too. The devs really didn't add anything to it that I would want to keep.

GruntOwner
25th Mar 2008, 16:09
Spiderbots.



Are you mad? They were so painfully nerfed. I mean for god's sake they did a little dance when they found you and started raving. They went from "Mother-thukk, those are the last things I need, and I still don't know where his wingman is" to "oh great, now I have to use a small amount of ammo to pump some pistol rounds into it." I'm all for the passive augs as long as they're not used to replace skills, but those bots were just... Not bots. Bring back the stomping monster with 2 missile launchers and a pair of machine guns, not that stompy fire-cracker spewing waste of rust.

The way bots were done is right up there with universial ammo on the things to burn list.

SemiAnonymous
25th Mar 2008, 18:32
Some of the Augs, like bot dominance, although I'd like Bot Dominance to be a skill instead of an Aug.
The weapon mods, those were badass. Lose the system, though, two per weapon FTL
The flash grenades and the spider bot grenades
unique weapons, as long as their very hard to find, and not over powered to hell

Kaff
27th Mar 2008, 01:51
I also want Omar to stay (if possible, depending on sequel/prequel scenarios).

Omar should be a must! Althoughthey had better sell some more gear - In IW they sell primarily the things you find all over the place for free. eg: "I have a black market biomod canister which enables non-piezochem funcionality, or an SMG machine gun or 3 energy cells..." "Hey, I just dropped a SMG to make room for the 3 energy cells I found in the room where I found the black market biomod. I dropped the SMG because you guys don't F*$&ng BUY ANYTHING!"

So the Omar should BUY & Sell. But having them there in the first place was great as they were in it for themselves and would happily share intel if it meant there was a chance of making a profit from it. In the end I sided ith the Omar at Liberty Island - that was the coolest ending BTW.

Omar FTW!

dimaf1985
27th Mar 2008, 05:57
Extra inventory slots added by the muscle aug

IceBallz
27th Mar 2008, 06:04
Extra inventory slots added by the muscle aug

Sure thing.

Kevyne-Shandris
27th Mar 2008, 07:07
Warren Spector. Nuff said.

That's the only thing from DX2 that I'd care about to come back to DX3.

Didn't play DX2, don't plan to play DX2, and if DX3 is anything like DX2...it's mods for now on.

Purist to the core.