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DXeXodus
12th Feb 2008, 06:04
Bethesda, the new Fallout developers, had a competition in which fans can design their own perk for the new fallout game. If Eidos Montreal had to open a competition in which we can design an augmentation that we would like to see in the third game what would your entry be?

There were some extremely useful augs in both games and it would be fun to think of some new stuf to pass the time.

Also, what were your favourite and least favourite augs from both games and what could be done to just improve on these existing ones?

Zegano
12th Feb 2008, 07:26
If the enemy had radios then you could have an aug which allows to listen in, and at higher levels you could send messages across their network to give them confusing orders.

DXeXodus
12th Feb 2008, 08:11
How about a heightened awareness augmentation:

The colours on screen become desaturated and enemies become highlighted. The patrol routes become vaguely visible and all security devices and their trip beams and sight beams become visible.... thus sending the agent into a heightened state of awareness to his surrounding environment. Just a thought.

Arcko
12th Feb 2008, 17:46
If the enemy had radios then you could have an aug which allows to listen in, and at higher levels you could send messages across their network to give them confusing orders.

This doesn't sound like too bad of an idea, cept it does not have to be an aug, a simple hand radio would suffice.

Example, you could speak into their network and it would open up a conversation. Depending on what kind of information you dig up, such as troop rosters from computers, badge ids from downed enemies, you could fool them into thinking that you're someone else and then react accordingly, like sending them to a location as a diversion or even use it as an opportunity to set a trap. To have this be a double edged sword, give the wrong responses or try to fool an enemy with exceptional intelligence (I.E. MIB.) then you could have the alert level of the whole area increased, additional guards posted or even a trap of their own being set.

Angel/0A
13th Feb 2008, 02:59
If the enemy had radios then you could have an aug which allows to listen in, and at higher levels you could send messages across their network to give them confusing orders.
This doesn't sound like too bad of an idea, cept it does not have to be an aug, a simple hand radio would suffice.
The aug could alter your voice so you'd actually sound like a commanding officer or something.

Zegano
13th Feb 2008, 06:27
They integrated your flashlight into your eyes, why not your radio?

Fatality
13th Feb 2008, 15:04
I think an aug that allowed you to phase through walls (like the no-clipping/ghost cheat) would be useful. It would allow you to become immaterial and pass as a cloud of energy or radiation. Obviously it would need limitations otherwise locked doors would become redundant. It could have an extremely high energy cost, it could leave the player very susceptible to emp damage (perhaps converted to health damage when this aug is active) and more important doors (i.e. doors leading to important areas required for story progression) could be unpassable, which could be explained away by saying they are reinforced by lead (or some other perhaps made up substance) and cannot be passed through by radiation.

Lo Bruto
13th Feb 2008, 21:07
I think an aug that allowed you to phase through walls (like the no-clipping/ghost cheat) would be useful. It would allow you to become immaterial and pass as a cloud of energy or radiation. Obviously it would need limitations otherwise locked doors would become redundant. It could have an extremely high energy cost, it could leave the player very susceptible to emp damage (perhaps converted to health damage when this aug is active) and more important doors (i.e. doors leading to important areas required for story progression) could be unpassable, which could be explained away by saying they are reinforced by lead (or some other perhaps made up substance) and cannot be passed through by radiation.

Nice idea, but I think all the augmentations needs at least a cientific explanation... and how to explain you becoming a ghost-like agent? :scratch:
Did you get my point?

djinni33
14th Feb 2008, 00:56
They integrated your flashlight into your eyes, why not your radio?

Radio for listening to enemy communication or radio stations like in gta would be nice indeed... and so would be a neuro-tv :o


Also: Stimaugs!
They can use your bodily chemicals to produce drugs in your bloodstream - be it to enhance your consciousness or speed and strength... no needles, sniffing, drinking or smoking required anymore - get high within seconds! Obviously more a black market product. :cool:

ThatDeadDude
14th Feb 2008, 20:00
Hmm... in the sort of scientific vein of argument, with the whole radios thing, you could justify having the enemy radios being protected by varying levels of encryption. This would justify you needing upgraded augs to listen in to the stuff that would need a quantum computer to break before the end of the universe. That, or you can steal key access.

pauldenton
15th Feb 2008, 07:23
i feel `sometimes` the superpowers can go way over the top making the game far too easy, especially if combined with the boost ups of a skill points system.

perhaps a point could be added in the game where you are stripped of your augs, to make those who relied on them heavily to have to rethink their stratagy at that point.

but in general i hope they keep a close eye on game balance regarding boost up powers.

gamer0004
15th Feb 2008, 12:02
I'd love the OPTION to get rid of all your augs. I don't like it when a game forces me to do something I don't want and there is no way to avoid it.
So it would be cool if you can side with the Templars and remove your augs so you'd have to rethink your strategy.

Blade_hunter
15th Feb 2008, 19:54
I propose these mods

Active biomods

1
-Microfibral Muscle when activated the mod gives you more strengh, you can carry heavy objects, jump a bit higher, control weapons with big recoil, carry more items (Except if you normal strengh is on higher level), moving faster with heavy stuff, amplifies melee attacks, improve heavy weapons control
-Speed enhancement when activated the mod gives you more speed, you can run quickly, make very high jumps, prevents failing damage, swim faster, melee attacks are very fast, accuracy with low speed weapons are better

2
-Energy shield This shield protects the user from all energy attacks type when the mod still active
-Emmiting shield This mod gives you a protection gainst slow moving projectiles like rockets, grenades and trigger all mines near you

3
-Ballistic protection This mod rigidified your skin and gives you a protection against all physical attacks when the mod is active
-Environemental resistance This mod modifies the skin to resist at flaming, biological and radio active attacks, but it protects only your skin

4
-Cloak When active this mod gives you the invisibility
-Radar transparency Makes player invisible to robots, turrets, and some cameras

5
-Silent mode Reduces sound caused by the player
-Noisy drone Spawn a small done can emmits some differents noises to distract and attract ennemies to desired places.

6
-Regeneration Restores health, heals quicker, reducing bioenergy requirements, at higher levels
-Health Leech Drone This biomod launches a small drone, which breaks down nearby corpses and unconscious bodies and uses the converted organic matter to heal the player.

7
-Biotox drone This mod Launches a drone armed with a tranquilizer bullet. Hovers near the player and attacks hostile targets autonomously. The drone's bullet attack is fairly quiet. Only attacks organic targets.
-Ion drone This mod launches a drone armed with an ionic ray. Hovers near the player and attacks hostile targets autonomously. Only attacks mechanical targets.

8
-Spy drone Spawns a small drone that you control and you can see where it goes. The drone can fire a single EMP pulse.
-Bot controller drone Spawns a small drone that you control and you can see where it goes. The drone can take control of ennemy bots.
Enables remote sensory control of bots, cameras and turrets. At higher levels, domination of more complex systems over greater distances becomes possible.

9
-Vision Enhancement Nightvision, infravision, and see through walls.
-Sound amplifier amplifies sound of your targeted point.

10
-Light A permanent augmentation that lets you turn on a flashlight from your eyes
-Enhanced touch A permanent augmentation gives you the possibility to read erased papers written with a pen ,braille codes and some etched scriptures

Passive biomods

11
-Synthetic Heart Boosts all augs up one level, unless any are maxed.
-Power Recirculator Reduces bioenergy drain of active augmentations.

I take the already existings biomods of previous episodes of DX and modifies some functions and give some new stuff but some ideas are perhaps not very appropriate for the game ....

Angel/0A
15th Feb 2008, 20:28
Passive biomods

11
-Synthetic Heart Boosts all augs up one level, unless any are maxed.
-Power Recirculator Reduces bioenergy drain of active augmentations.

I take the already existings biomods of previous episodes of DX and modifies some functions and give some new stuff but some ideas are perhaps not very appropriate for the game ....

You really like the idea of drones, heh. Personally, I think it would be cool if any inclusion of the synthetic heart was able to increase the level of all augs beyond the maximum. I never found it very appealing in the original game because it lacked this functionality. Most of the time I had maxed everything else out by the end of the game anyway, so it wasn't as much of a benefit, whereas I could always be benefitting from the reduction of energy consumption the power recirculator provided.

Blade_hunter
15th Feb 2008, 21:18
I forget to propose an acid touch, when you uses your hands against an ennemy :D

For the drones it's true, I think it's cool, I remember when I use the Spy drone against the bots ^^ and I think drones can be useful and fun to use, the default of some drones; it's it can be an item ....

Angel/0A
16th Feb 2008, 01:25
Well, choosing all the drone augmentations could turn your character into a summoner-type of sorts, which would be pretty different from normal DX.

Blade_hunter
6th Jul 2008, 14:30
Active biomods

1 Muscles 2 slots

-Microfibral Muscle when activated the mod gives you more strength, you can carry heavy objects, jump a bit higher, control weapons with big recoil, carry more items (Except if you normal strengh is on higher level), moving faster with heavy stuff, amplifies melee attacks, improve heavy weapons control
-Speed enhancement when activated the mod gives you more speed, you can run quickly, make very high jumps, prevents failing damage, swim faster, melee attacks are very fast, accuracy with low speed weapons are better
-Silent mode Reduces sound caused by the player


2 Skin 2 slots

-Energy shield This shield protects the user from all energy attacks type when the mod still active.
-Emmiting shield This mod gives you a protection gainst slow moving projectiles like rockets, grenades and trigger all mines near you
-Ballistic protection This mod rigidified your skin and gives you a protection against all physical attacks when the mod is active
-Cloak When active this mod gives you the invisibility
-Radar transparency Makes player invisible radars, and detectors that uses waves to detect us
-Thermal dissipation Makes us invisible to infrared devices
-Ion emitter this can transform our body in a terrible melee weapon when we activate it we can pass everywhere and causes damages by our contact


3 Heart 2 slots + 1 passive

-Regeneration Restores health, heals quicker, reducing bioenergy requirements, at higher levels
-Aqualung This mod give us more autonomy when we are underwater
-Environmental resistance help us to resist at flaming, biological, toxic and radioactive attacks.
-Synthetic Heart Boosts all augs up one level and upgrades physical skills when still active
-Power Recirculator Reduces bioenergy drain of active augmentations, and reduce stamina consumption, and upgrades the resistance against stun



4 Skull 2 slots

-Health Leech Drone This biomod launches a small drone, which breaks down nearby corpses and unconscious bodies and uses the converted organic matter to heal the player.
-Biotox drone This mod Launches a drone armed with a tranquilizer bullet. Hovers near the player and attacks hostile targets autonomously. The drone's bullet attack is fairly quiet. Only attacks organic targets.
-Ion drone This mod launches a drone armed with an ionic ray. Hovers near the player and attacks hostile targets autonomously. Only attacks mechanical targets.
-Spy drone Spawns a small drone that you control and you can see where it goes. The drone can fire a single EMP pulse.
-Bot controller drone Spawns a small drone that you control and you can see where it goes. The drone can take control of ennemy bots.
Enables remote sensory control of bots, cameras and turrets. At higher levels, domination of more complex systems over greater distances becomes possible.
-Noisy drone Spawn a small done can emmits some differents noises to distract and attract enemies to desired places.


5 Arms 2 slots

-Energy blade A powerful nanotech blade integrated on our arm
-Arm cannon A powerful energy cannon integrated on our arm
-Steel arms that can converts our hands into a powerful melee weapon and protect our hands against attacks
-Gravity control Allow us to levitate objects without touch them
-Acid hands Allow your hands to make biological damages
-Bioenergy amplifier this can convert our Bioenergy to electricity, this is a short range weapon, if we use a metal melee weapon this will add electric damage to this weapon
-Flying hands This mod will throw a drone to catch some items and throw them in aother location



6 Head 2 slots

-Vision Enhancement Nightvision, infravision, and see through walls.
-Targeting this biomod allow us to see further, know the HP from enemies
-Sound amplifier amplifies sound of your targeted point, this can be used as a radar to detect some moving things.
-Frost Breath that allow us to throw nitrogen by our mouth, very good for paralyzing
-Flashing this mod will flash our opponents

XX ?
-Light A permanent augmentation that lets you turn on a flashlight from your eyes
-Enhanced touch A permanent augmentation gives you the possibility to read erased papers written with a pen ,braille codes and some etched scriptures
-Infolink
-IFF

12 active + 1 passive + 1 Initial

Hum It's just some ideas but next time I will perform them and adapt it in function at what the game will manage because I don't know if some features like a stamina bar, the exact skills will be added or not ...

Chemix
6th Jul 2008, 14:46
Seems like it's time to post a compendium from the other thread much on the same subject.

Offensive: Bio
Mild Nerve Agent: A non lethal nerve suppressing compound that can be released from re-purposed sweat glands in the form of a mist that causes those caught in it to swagger and loose their aim. Alternatively the player could come from behind and use it like chloroform and cover the person's mouth with their cupped hand.
Strong Nerve Agent: Like the above, but lethal and fast acting

Offensive: Mechanical
Skull Gun: Requiring a full metal grafting to the skull, as well as spinal support columns to be already in place or placed during the application, the skull gun is of course a gun that is physically attached to the skull. With extra metallic supports, it can be mildly disguised, though the head will seem much larger and will have a cone like appearance at the top. The gun takes some time to reload, but is high enough caliber to ensure that it kills most organics in one shot. Good for negotiations...
Arm Cannon: Replacing either the left or right lower arm, the Arm Cannon functions as an internally mounted heavy machine gun and with advancements, a full massive caliber cannon, or can be further modified to an even less arm like state to become a recoilless rifle for anti armor.
Iron Fists: Replacing the organic structure of the hand with an advanced hardened steel fist with movable finger joints and minor touch sensation ability. These greatly improve the strength of melee blows against opponents, but can also be used to hold weapons with cold precision or crush whatever needs crushing... Never know when you might need to crack a few eggs or make an omelet for the greater good
Wrist Blade: A blade mechanism that can be placed on the wrist and forearm on top or below that effectively gives the user a retractable long dagger that cannot be removed from them except by breaking it off (highly unlikely) or expert mechanical removal. Unlike most mechanical augs, it is easily concealed, making it very useful for captured units.

Defensive: Bio
Sub-Dermal Ballistic Protection:A complex web of carbon nano-tubes is produced beneath the surface of the skin, creating an effective net for projectile weapons to hit. Energy, injected, or gas weapons are not affected, though melee damage inflicted on the user is partially absorbed.
Metallic Shield Plates: A more permanent and very visually obvious solution is the growing of partially metallic plates onto the skin. This armor more effective than carbon nano-tube webs, but are more permanent and as such take damage that can only be repaired at a med station.
Nanite Mist:This aug creates a fine fist of nanites that detonate explosive projectiles and eat away at solid ones, but are useless against any other weapon types.

Defensive: Mechanical
Bolted Armor: Extremely tough armor that takes the place of most of the user's skin, only leaving their feat, hands, and face, unhindered. This slows the player down a bit, but protects them from light arms fire to their torso, legs or arms as well as injections (except in sites mentioned) and some energy weapons. It requires a repair bot, med station, or mechanic to repair though.
Plasma Field Generator: Plasma can burn away gases, detonate explosives, even reduce the effects of energy weapons, but bullets and other solid projectiles smolder and melt, causing damage from impact (lessened) and heat damage that mildly dissipates. It uses up a fair bit of energy, so prolonged use requires constant recharging.
Magnetic Field Generator: Using projected magnetic fields, bullets can be led to bend their paths around the target, or with enough power, to reflect some entirely (with reduced speed and range). It has no effect on non solid projectiles though and is power hungry.
Shock Supports: A series of shock absorbing systems throughout the body that allows the user to sustain high impact and falling speeds.

Enhancers: Bio
Micro Fiber Musculature: A series of cross hatched tension fibers that can be electrically stimulated to pull much harder than human muscle tissues can. They are capable of faster running, heavier lifting and harder hitting, but each major action takes up a lot of energy, and pushing the body too far can destroy tissue, causing major damage.
Hyperactive Retina Sensors: By super-stimulating the human retina this aug makes night vision clear as daylight, but without color and damage to ocular tissue when exposed to bright light.
Cerebral Stimulant: By introducing high nutrient fluids to the brain and artificially stimulating the frontal lobe, fast thinking can occur where time seems to slow down, just a little, and enemies stand out more, as well as their weapons and projectiles. Coupled with the fiber musculature, it can make for a speedy and highly aware agent that is almost untouchable by mere normal humans.
Stem Cell Health Regen: Using the stem cells in human fat, nanites can carry stem masses to wounded locations to generate quick healing. Such complex behaviors are very power consuming to calculate.

Enhancers: Mech
Advanced Cybernetic Pneumatics: Replacing many large muscle groups and bones with robotic counterparts seems extreme, but so are the results. Small arms fire no longer does significant damage to most of the limbs and even the outer torso. Also, strength is now extreme, and damage resulting from over strain is not an issue. It improves jump height, but running speed is slowed. It also allows for the steady handling of weapons, particularly heavy weapons.
Jump Jet: A small short range jet pack requires a mechanically strengthened spine, but gives a massive increase to mobility. It is meant mostly for lunge attacks or getting to high places, not for any sustained flight. As a bonus anyone caught in close proximity to it when used will be severely burned. The jets are powered by bio fuels present in the body, but converting them takes quite some energy and over consumption of the body's natural fuels will damage it, much like starvation would.
Sonar System: Using the human ears as receivers, a device implanted in the upper neck translates sound into topographic data, allowing the user a wide range of view no matter the conditions. It uses up relatively little power in comparison to many mechanical augs.
Advanced Ocular Replacement: Replacing one or both eyes is an advanced high definition series of sensors, including a camera, night vision, situation data (health) and a transmitter to transmit digit codes to locks just out of reach. On the downside, EMP attacks remove half your vision and disable all of this aug's abilities. Signal transmission also eats up a decent amount of power and doesn't always work as it requires the electricity to get to the lock remotely, and it can be interrupted during the jump.

As a note, the following ideas may be a bit stranger or less likely than anything above
Utilities: Bio
Adhesive Padding: Based on gecko toe pads, a series of micro hair clusters are grown on the skin of the user, which allows them to climb or run on walls or ceilings, but at the same time it makes weapon switching much slower and grenade throwing almost impossible. The hairs that are created don't last much longer than a half dozen minutes, and require a lot of energy to be regrown. They can not be removed except by wearing them out.
Nanite Infestation: By releasing nanites into an electrical system, it can be shorted out, possibly disabling lights or locking mechanisms (effectively sealing keypad doors) or even causing damage to high level robotic circuitry causing it to go haywire and shoot anything, or just shut down (random chance).

Utilities: Mech
Swiss Army Arm: A replacement for the left or right arm that effectively acts as a soldering device for easy on hand rewiring to bypass keypads, an electronic interface tool for various machines and robots, an automatic lock pick, a screwdriver and a small circular saw as well as TASER. The problems being that it prevents the use of 2 handed weapons, takes up a moderate amount of energy for any complex action.
Body Storage: A series of small compartments built into the user that can carry items that one would not want to loose after being captured, like lock picks, small firearms or multi-tools. It also offers a small bonus to total storage space by offering space for specific small items.

jcp28
6th Jul 2008, 18:09
Nanite infestation.... now that would be a concept that would have to be carefully managed, assuming it was included. It seems like the sort of thing that one would have few opportunities to use. Most of the defensive mechanical augs seem like they would work, though. And I like the sound of that "Adhesive Padding" though the science behind such a technology must be questionable if it's at the bottom of the list.

Body Storage....don't really think we need that. Of course, I'm sure there will be some obligatory escape level, but the whole thing just sounds cheesy to me, if not as bad as certain other ideas proposed here. But as far as design goes, they all sound pretty damn good.

Chemix
6th Jul 2008, 18:40
Nanite infestation.... now that would be a concept that would have to be carefully managed, assuming it was included. It seems like the sort of thing that one would have few opportunities to use. Most of the defensive mechanical augs seem like they would work, though. And I like the sound of that "Adhesive Padding" though the science behind such a technology must be questionable if it's at the bottom of the list.

Body Storage....don't really think we need that. Of course, I'm sure there will be some obligatory escape level, but the whole thing just sounds cheesy to me, if not as bad as certain other ideas proposed here. But as far as design goes, they all sound pretty damn good.

Towards nanite infestation, how many keypads were there in DX1, alot. How many light switches were there, a decent amount. Chances are there will be keypads and light switches in this game as well.

As for body storage, it just goes along with the Mech style of thinking, storta like robocop. If weapons can be damaged it would be more useful.

And towards item storage in general, I like it to be plausible, and for them to be visible in some way rather than going into our mysterious back pocket of invisibility. For examples, certain weapons can have a strap for the back, so sniper rifles and similar long guns can be holstered there. Whereas under the arm holsters can hold a side arm and another in the pants for a second pistol or something of comparable size. A lock pick would be in the jacket or something (no more of this multiple lock picks per lock crap). For an image, think to the Matrix scene where Neo and Trinity walk into the building and the light goes off in the metal detector and Neo opens his jacket revealing his wide variety of weapons. Having real places to put things just steps up the level of immersion so much.

SemiAnonymous
6th Jul 2008, 19:57
Ooh, this could be fun
Puppet: Allows you to temporarily control any non augmented target. Once controlled, you have complete control, until you run out of Energy or the target is killed. Once you release control for whatever reason, the target is rendered unconcious.

Hologram: A copy of yourself is created, which you can give several orders: Mimic, Attack, Patrol or Distract. Mimic causes it to do the exact same thing you do, Attack makes it simply attack with an energy attack. Patrol makes it patrol (duh) and Distract makes it run about, making noise and causing the enemies to try to destroy it, ignoring you.

Enhanced Awareness (just an upgraded version of the above one): This allows you to see things normally invisible to the eye, like footprints, blood, hidden people, electric currents, and when fully upgraded, will make a vague outline of where they move next.

Weapon Jammer: Target an enemy, activate the aug, and the targets weapon will jam, and they will be completely unable to attack with any weapon. Can target up to 5 enemies.

Terrorize: When activated, a single pulse is released, at a significant energy cost. Every Non-augmented person in range immediately drops whatever they are holding and flee's, and will remain cowering until it wears off. The closer to the user, the longer and more powerful the effects. If used directly next to someone, they will flee and cower for 5 minutes. If someone is hit at the very edge of the range, they are more likely to hide with their weapon and shoot at everything, allies included.

Energy Saver: Only works with energy weapons. When used, the weapon uses Bioenergy instead of Ammo.

And finally
Environment Attack: When used, a part of the environment is detached and flies at the player, smashing everything in the way, characters included, and stops at the players feet. This includes things like hand rails, barrels, melee weapons, bricks, etc. Very useful for surprise attacks, as well as ambushes, as enemies are attracted to the sounds.

Fun fun fun

iWait
7th Jul 2008, 02:06
Nanotech Augs:

Active

Nanite Reconstructor- Millions of nanites are programmed to deconstruct the targeted metal on an atomic scale, reusing the atoms to produce a selected ammo. This produces a hole in the targeted area of metal (The hole size and amount of ammo would be based on the level of the aug). Of course it cannot be used on some key doors.

Hallucinogenic Cloud- A nanite cloud is released via a nanotech-augmented gland. When inhaled the nanites travel to the brain, blocking synapses and removing the logic barriers of the brain. Can cause sensory overload, rendering the victim unconscious.

Crate Breaker Deluxe- Destroys all crates in a radius of 200 ft/300 ft/400 ft/500 ft. Rank 4 would also destroy barrels.

Nanite Coagulant- When activated, nanites in your bloodstream rush to open wounds, stopping bleeding and destroying toxins in the area.

Passive

Neural Defense System- Nanites keep the brain in check, making you resistant/immune to hallucinogenics and other mind-altering things. Also makes you immune to sensory overload.

Gray Tissue Integration- Nanites assimilate Gray tissue into your body, making you immune to radiation and recharging your bio-electric supply when in proximity of radiation.

Mechanical Augs:

Active

Situational Awareness System- Enhances your vision, allows you to use a sonar system, dramatically increases your olfactory senses, gives you an advances targeting system, and allows you to pick up radio and microwave communications.

Passive

Electrical Interface- Allows you to use all electrical outlets to recharge your electrical energy.

Advanced Weapons Platform- Replaces your feet with treads, removes your legs and instead allows for a platform for multiple weapons to be placed. Because of the increased stability you experience almost no recoil and have unparalleled accuracy.

hessi
7th Jul 2008, 05:20
A Real Spy mod would be nice to have where the agent can morph into a hostile ( Guard, Soldier). This would be a real nice mod to have on hand instead of the invisibility mod.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
7th Jul 2008, 12:32
A bit off topic... but wouldn't the name be better if it was "Design-An-Aug" rather than "Design-A-Aug"?
"Design-An-Aug" seems to roll off the tongue a little better. :p

*I guess its the 'an' before any word beginning with a vowel usage rule* ;)

DXeXodus
7th Jul 2008, 13:00
A bit off topic... but wouldn't the name be better if it was "Design-An-Aug" rather than "Design-A-Aug"?
"Design-An-Aug" seems to roll off the tongue a little better. :p

*I guess its the 'an' before any word beginning with a vowel usage rule* ;)

That would be the correct way yes :)
But I made the title as a spin of to Bethesda's "design 'a perk" (Think that's what it was called) competition line.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
7th Jul 2008, 16:58
Yeah, but 'perk' doesn't start with a vowel, hehe. :p :D

Romeo
8th Jul 2008, 07:21
Yes it would be Design-an-Aug, but who cares? =P

But for Skin I'd like these options:

Active Camouflage. Tell me that wouldn't be awesome.

Electronic Sensor Jamming. Also fairly useful, just less awesome.

Hardened Skin. Again, fairly cool, just not quite awesome.

DXeXodus
8th Jul 2008, 07:42
Yeah, but 'perk' doesn't start with a vowel, hehe. :p :D

You tease :)

And I shall say what I have been trained to say by my girlfriend at all times... "You are right"

In the beginning of the thread i mentioned this:


How about a heightened awareness augmentation:

The colours on screen become desaturated and enemies become highlighted. The patrol routes become vaguely visible and all security devices and their trip beams and sight beams become visible.... thus sending the agent into a heightened state of awareness to his surrounding environment. Just a thought.

What you guys think of something like that?

Romeo
8th Jul 2008, 08:01
I think it sounds like a party I was at this weekend... I woke up on the roof.

DXeXodus
8th Jul 2008, 08:28
I think it sounds like a party I was at this weekend... I woke up on the roof.

Lol! :lol: I suppose you could look at it like that :)

Romeo
9th Jul 2008, 03:53
What can I say? I'm from Vancouver. =P

Lady_Of_The_Vine
9th Jul 2008, 12:18
You tease :)

And I shall say what I have been trained to say by my girlfriend at all times... "You are right"


LOL, I see your girlfriend has you levelled up to "well trained" status... excellent! :cool: :D

Jerion
11th Jul 2008, 10:21
Here's my idea:

Ammo Converter

This aug is a controlled, limited, and user-choosable alternative to Universal Ammo.

Back in DX 1, weapons were divided into 5 seperate categories: pistols, rifles, low tech, heavy weapons, and demolitions. My idea is to use this category system.

Say that you have the sniper rifle and an assault shotgun in your inventory. Both weapons are in the rifle category. Now, say that you need to use the sniper rifle, but you were careless with your ammunition in the last mission so you have very little or no ammo for it. Hello, Ammo Converter.

It works like this:

I pull out the sniper rifle, and activate Ammo Converter. as long as I have the sniper rifle out, ammo converter will stay active. Over the course of the next minute or so, Ammo Converter scrounges ammo from all the weapons in my inventory that are in the same class as the weapon I have out, in this case the sniper rifle, and converts them to sniper ammo.

Now, because the assault shotgun is the only other rifle in my inventory, Ammo converter will use it. So over the course of the 30 or 40 seconds after activating the aug, it will have converted 10 - 20 shotgun shells into a full clip of sniper rifle ammo.

At higher skill levels, ammunition is converted more efficiently (fewer rounds is needed to produce the same amount of ammunition for the current weapon) and less Bioelectric energy is used in the process.

I like this idea.

Blade_hunter
11th Jul 2008, 12:37
In SS2 we have a sort of converter / recycler, in the psi powers and the items, but they can't convert directly ammo to an other, they convert items into nanites and the nanites are used to buy and duplicate.
I don't know if it's not better to sell items and buy an other than use biomods slots or special items to convert everything ....
Vending machines, NPCs can make this job well, no ?

gamer0004
11th Jul 2008, 14:50
Here's my idea:

Ammo Converter

This aug is a controlled, limited, and user-choosable alternative to Universal Ammo.

Back in DX 1, weapons were divided into 5 seperate categories: pistols, rifles, low tech, heavy weapons, and demolitions. My idea is to use this category system.

Say that you have the sniper rifle and an assault shotgun in your inventory. Both weapons are in the rifle category. Now, say that you need to use the sniper rifle, but you were careless with your ammunition in the last mission so you have very little or no ammo for it. Hello, Ammo Converter.

It works like this:

I pull out the sniper rifle, and activate Ammo Converter. as long as I have the sniper rifle out, ammo converter will stay active. Over the course of the next minute or so, Ammo Converter scrounges ammo from all the weapons in my inventory that are in the same class as the weapon I have out, in this case the sniper rifle, and converts them to sniper ammo.

Now, because the assault shotgun is the only other rifle in my inventory, Ammo converter will use it. So over the course of the 30 or 40 seconds after activating the aug, it will have converted 10 - 20 shotgun shells into a full clip of sniper rifle ammo.

At higher skill levels, ammunition is converted more efficiently (fewer rounds is needed to produce the same amount of ammunition for the current weapon) and less Bioelectric energy is used in the process.

I like this idea.

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

Just HAVING the (completely unrealistic) feature ruins the immersion for me.

Jerion
12th Jul 2008, 05:15
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

Just HAVING the (completely unrealistic) feature ruins the immersion for me.

Geez. You are welcome to your own opinion, I guess.

Besides, it would be an OPTION of for an aug install. So unless your hell-bent on choosing to install this specific augmentation, what would it matter to you anyway?

FYI, I'm not a fan of Universal Ammo either.

Blade_hunter
12th Jul 2008, 10:16
LOL yeah of course it was an option, like many things, in DX we have the health regen and some players doesn't like it. I'm not against the idea like some ideas, I see in this forum an idea about an item that can converts the ammo to an other things.

In DX we can't sell anything in the game, and the sellers have a very limited merchandise, I don't say this kind of sellers must disappear, I want to keep them but some shop points can be a realistic alternative to this kind of biomod.

I won't say I like an ammo converter too, because it makes the multiple ammo like the uni ammo, but with the use of a biomod that allows to transform multiple ammo into a sort of uni ammo with the consumption of bioenergy, I won't say it's uni ammo, but an automatic transformation of an ammo to an other it's an uni ammo thought no ?

In DX 2 the nanites are the ammo for weapon that can fire projectiles, and the weapons transforms this nanites into ammo that can work with the current weapon.
Your system wants to limit the application, to weapons of the same skill for balance (I think)

But If you replace this with a trade system, that allow you to sell useless items, and buy the most useful, it's balanced, because, we must find the shop point or the right NPC, it gives more utility for the money, and the NPCs are made a bit for it no ?
In a game without NPCs, this kind of system can be useful and because we can't buy, but in DX the case is different, before a mission / entering in a building / or all kinds of closed places, we can prepare the "mission" and if you have shot shells and want to sell them to buy sniper rounds, you can, the inconvenient is the fact we can't do this thing anywhere.

After all the money is a trade resource, no ?

gamer0004
12th Jul 2008, 14:09
Besides, it would be an OPTION of for an aug install. So unless your hell-bent on choosing to install this specific augmentation, what would it matter to you anyway?


You don't get the point.
D'Astous: "In Deus Ex 3, players can buy a pink elephant with machineguns".
Interviewer: "But wouldn't that ruin the immersion?"
D'Astous: "Well, players don't HAVE to buy a pink elephant with machineguns..."

Chemix
12th Jul 2008, 14:14
I fail to see the fair comparison between pink elephants with machine guns, and the conversion of ammo by nanites, which already are converting mass they are inserted with into structures within the body itself. It's not a far stretch, and the suggestion was, that it WOULD NOT BE AUTOMATIC.

Blade_hunter
12th Jul 2008, 16:20
I think he wants to talk about the fact we can add atrocious things in the game even if they are optional.
Perhaps for him this ammo converter mod is like add those elephants in the game ... (atrocious ?) :scratch:

I agree with the fact if it's automatic this unbalance the game (thats my opinion too)

Fen
12th Jul 2008, 16:26
Augmentation - The act or process of augmenting.

Augment - To increase, make larger or supplement.

The word augmentation basically refers to the enhancing of current abilites that one might have. This is kept pretty well in the first game, where most of the augs were there supplimenting your muscles or your eyes etc.

While some of these ideas are really imaginative, they are not enhancements of human ability. They are lets give a player super powers. If you implement an aug that allows you to walk through walls or something, then you might as well set the game in world war 2 germany and give people laser guns. DX was great because it was a view of what the future could feesably be like. That feesability was there because there was reasoning as to why somone could stand in a gas room and have the gas filtered out in his lungs. So when you come up for an aug idea, please think about how is it a an enhancement of current function? And how would it work?

Remember that a player is augmented because he has microscopic nanites flowing through his blood stream who are building microstructures in the tissues of his body. If you can think of a structure that these nanites could build that would allow someone to pick up an object with the power of his mind, then I would love to hear.

The other option that I suggested in another thread was the idea of mechanical augs. So while nanites could not possible build a gun in your hand, you could just get the arm replaced by a mechanical one.


EDIT: Just a note on the little discussion above. The idea of an ammo converter is not rediculous because of game balance, its rediculous because your defying the laws of physics. If your going to blatently defy the laws of physics like that, why not allow your character to fly as well?

Nathan2000
12th Jul 2008, 16:33
I fail to see the fair comparison between pink elephants with machine guns, and the conversion of ammo by nanites, which already are converting mass they are inserted with into structures within the body itself. It's not a far stretch, and the suggestion was, that it WOULD NOT BE AUTOMATIC.

I doubt, that the ammo converter is less realistic than a spy drone being built in the agent's cranium, but wouldn't it unbalance the economy of ammo? "I can take out those soldiers with a grenade launcher. I don't mind the ammo cost, I'll find some other ammo and convert it."

Moreover, it would indeed hurt immersion. If I can convert buckshot to .30-06 rounds, why can't I do the same with those filthy combat knifes?

gamer0004
12th Jul 2008, 16:51
Yes, the Spy drone was pretty unrealistic too (and therefore it bothered me), but for that you can still come up with some kind of explanation (JC just carries them with him, the energy comes from his bioelectrical batteries).

jcp28
12th Jul 2008, 18:46
In DX we can't sell anything in the game, and the sellers have a very limited merchandise, I don't say this kind of sellers must disappear, I want to keep them but some shop points can be a realistic alternative to this kind of biomod.

I won't say I like an ammo converter too, because it makes the multiple ammo like the uni ammo, but with the use of a biomod that allows to transform multiple ammo into a sort of uni ammo with the consumption of bioenergy, I won't say it's uni ammo, but an automatic transformation of an ammo to an other it's an uni ammo thought no ?

In DX 2 the nanites are the ammo for weapon that can fire projectiles, and the weapons transforms this nanites into ammo that can work with the current weapon.
Your system wants to limit the application, to weapons of the same skill for balance (I think)

But If you replace this with a trade system, that allow you to sell useless items, and buy the most useful, it's balanced, because, we must find the shop point or the right NPC, it gives more utility for the money, and the NPCs are made a bit for it no ?
In a game without NPCs, this kind of system can be useful and because we can't buy, but in DX the case is different, before a mission / entering in a building / or all kinds of closed places, we can prepare the "mission" and if you have shot shells and want to sell them to buy sniper rounds, you can, the inconvenient is the fact we can't do this thing anywhere.

After all the money is a trade resource, no ?

I agree that the ammo convertor idea sucks really hard. Play balance would be far too difficult to acheive.

It certainly makes sense that if we can buy clips, scopes, weapons mods, and what have you from people we encounter, then we should be able to find someone to sell our excess ammo and other equipment to. Hopefully, the NPCs wouldn't be too obvious about it. But it would really depend on what environment we'd be going into, though. I don't really think our enemies will be looking to buy stuff off us. And that might be who would largely want such equipment in the first place, apart from some gang members or some loner types. Ideas would be helpful here.:scratch:

Thinking of this makes me think it would suck if you gave a machine gun to some crazed loner, who then proceeded to shoot up a shopping mall. That could be a real :nut: oh**** moment.

Jerion
13th Jul 2008, 05:14
I agree that the ammo convertor idea sucks really hard. Play balance would be far too difficult to acheive.

It certainly makes sense that if we can buy clips, scopes, weapons mods, and what have you from people we encounter, then we should be able to find someone to sell our excess ammo and other equipment to. Hopefully, the NPCs wouldn't be too obvious about it. But it would really depend on what environment we'd be going into, though. I don't really think our enemies will be looking to buy stuff off us. And that might be who would largely want such equipment in the first place, apart from some gang members or some loner types. Ideas would be helpful here.:scratch:

Thinking of this makes me think it would suck if you gave a machine gun to some crazed loner, who then proceeded to shoot up a shopping mall. That could be a real :nut: oh**** moment.


The Buy-Sell-Trade idea is great; it would just have to be set up so that you could offer to sell weapons or other misc items like cigarettes as well. If this was handled well, then you could carefully control which items you pick up to keep and which items you pick up to sell, and in fact make a continuous profit this way. (I wouldn't go as far as to say that you could set up shop in Wan Chai, though maybe you could do continuous business with someone there).

Ah hah! I have the perfect Aug! Sales Pitch!:D

iWait
13th Jul 2008, 05:17
The ammo converter is not unrealistic. In DX the Universal Constructor used nanotechnology to change the molecular structure of a given matter, what Kieranator suggested is similar to this, changing the molecular structure a certain ammunition into the desired form of the more useful ammunition.

HouseOfPain
13th Jul 2008, 06:54
The ammo converter is not unrealistic. In DX the Universal Constructor used nanotechnology to change the molecular structure of a given matter, what Kieranator suggested is similar to this, changing the molecular structure a certain ammunition into the desired form of the more useful ammunition.

It just doesnt sound fun to me ;P

So I will pass.

OH and DxExodus, I love that idea! Especially that you can SEE their patrol path slightly.. set those traps up, you know? ;)

gamer0004
13th Jul 2008, 09:31
The ammo converter is not unrealistic. In DX the Universal Constructor used nanotechnology to change the molecular structure of a given matter, what Kieranator suggested is similar to this, changing the molecular structure a certain ammunition into the desired form of the more useful ammunition.

Well, there is a difference between an enormous Universal constructor and a small device which you can carry everywhere with you. Besides that, the thing would be so expensive to make that everyone would just buy more ammo insteed of trying to convert tranq darts into .50 ammo.

Jerion
13th Jul 2008, 18:15
Well, there is a difference between an enormous Universal constructor and a small device which you can carry everywhere with you. Besides that, the thing would be so expensive to make that everyone would just buy more ammo insteed of trying to convert tranq darts into .50 ammo.

Do you remember those ancient computers that were the size of large rooms? the iPhone has more than ten times the functionality, and look how small that is.

Fen
13th Jul 2008, 18:34
Do you remember those ancient computers that were the size of large rooms? the iPhone has more than ten times the functionality, and look how small that is.

However we see a universal constructor in the game. And its the size of a room. The size would be mostly due to the sheer power requirements of such a machine, which would be far beyond what a bioelectric cell could produce.

We also have to consider that fact that while even if we could rearrange the atoms of a bullet to create another one (which would be a VERY inefficient way of making bullets), we would need the materials to do so. Will a buckshot shotgun shell have the same materials as a gep rocket or a tranquiliser dart?

Blade_hunter
13th Jul 2008, 19:55
Many things sounds to be illogical when we look for a game and others are logic.
But some things in DX were illogical and not very good
For example why in DX 1 the mod "Combat strength" and "Microfibral muscle" were two separate mods, they give strength and be used in two separate tasks when you can carry a big crate, you can also use a melee weapon and do a better damage with.
Why in DX we can't carry more than 1 PS20 ? we can carry dozens of grenades and not the PS20, this is not logical too.
Even if this game is the greatest game ever played for me, some things aren't well made even if they are little inconvenients when I compare by the great quality of the game, but I think some guys here don't want the game that become too sci-fi and unbalanced.
I see the argument of the survival thing, and it can breaks it.
For me I don't think it's totally unrealistic, if we think as the game DX 2 we have the same thing, the ammo converter was in the guns, with the ammo converter we choose to use the ammo like DX 2 but with different kind of cartridges ...
after all the uni ammo allow the same things as the ammo converter

Fen
14th Jul 2008, 08:07
Many things sounds to be illogical when we look for a game and others are logic.
But some things in DX were illogical and not very good
For example why in DX 1 the mod "Combat strength" and "Microfibral muscle" were two separate mods, they give strength and be used in two separate tasks when you can carry a big crate, you can also use a melee weapon and do a better damage with.
Why in DX we can't carry more than 1 PS20 ? we can carry dozens of grenades and not the PS20, this is not logical too.
Even if this game is the greatest game ever played for me, some things aren't well made even if they are little inconvenients when I compare by the great quality of the game, but I think some guys here don't want the game that become too sci-fi and unbalanced.
I see the argument of the survival thing, and it can breaks it.
For me I don't think it's totally unrealistic, if we think as the game DX 2 we have the same thing, the ammo converter was in the guns, with the ammo converter we choose to use the ammo like DX 2 but with different kind of cartridges ...
after all the uni ammo allow the same things as the ammo converter

Theres a difference between making something unrealistic for the purpose of game balance, and making something unrealistic just because people think its cool.

There is actually a difference between Combat strength and Microfibral muscle. There are two types of muscle fibers. Type 1 and Type 2. Type 1 muscle fibres are for long extended muscle contractions, these are what you would want to increase for your Microfibral muscle. Type 2 muscle fibres are your fast twitch muscles, that dont generate force for a large amount of time, but can do it very fast. This is what you need for your combat strength.

As for not holding many PS20's, this was done for game balance, and thats ok. Its ok if for game balance purposes, something is not logical.

As for the game not being too sci-fi, yes. That is the main reason I'm against such an aug. Because there is no real plausable scientific basis for the implementation of that aug. Deus ex is about realistic plausable worlds. If I ask a question "how does this work?", the game should have an answer which makes sense. I dont want the answer to be "Cos its the future and we can do this in the future".

In Deus ex 2, the concept behind it was that every gun used the same ammo and that it would somehow convert this universal ammo into the projectile that it was going to use. As far as plausability goes, its pretty pathetic. As for game balance wise, everyone HATED universal ammo, so I dont think such a thing should return.

This is a long post, so Im just going to re-iterate my main point. Deus ex is built around being a plausable vision of the future. Therefore to keep this plausability, everything should be realistic and have a foundation in scientific fact. Yes, realism will have to be sacrificed for game balance in some areas. But if something is not adding to balance, then it should have to be plausable.

Blade_hunter
14th Jul 2008, 09:47
Somethings was done for game balance I agree with this point even if for me somethings remains a bit unbalanced but thats my opinion.
But the thing I wanted to say about an ammo converter is, it's make the multiple cartridges useless .... :scratch:
An aug like this questioning the existence of multiple cartridges, and why make a mod if we can use uni ammo ?
If don't liked uni ammo it's because my sniper rifle eats the ammo of my shotgun
With multiple ammo we can use the shotgun to save the sniper ammo, with uni ammo we use the weapon with the lowest ammo consumption to save ammo.
And got an ammo converter is the same as got the uni ammo :(

JulianP
17th Jul 2008, 16:35
I want to create my own augs in-game.

Blade_hunter
17th Jul 2008, 17:37
Create augs will be only augs customized by the dev's that needs some elements to create and use it, like the games you will able to create weapons and items.
But how we can create it in the game ?
Have you a system to propose ?

iWait
17th Jul 2008, 23:05
Here's how I think augs should work:

When you find an augmentation canister it isn't programmed, you have go to a medbot and program the nanites for a specific job. Every augmentation canister is the same and can be programmed to either upgrade an existing augmentation or to perform a new upgrade.

IF we have mechanical augmentations we could go to a hospital and have a doctor specializing in bio-mechanics to do the procedure. The doctor would already have the easy-to-obtain items, like the metal/fiberglass; we would have to get the rarer items that make the augmentations work, maybe a expensive lens for a mechanical vision augmentation, a specialized canon, or a microchip containing needed programs.

Our character would get different responses to people depending on how extensive our augmentations are or if they are visible. If we are augged-up-the-arse like an MJ12 Commando people would have a VERY different reaction to the character opposed to a un-augmented character.

robotwo
17th Jul 2008, 23:27
I would like it if you could buy old ServoMechanic augs on the black market, instead of those fancy piezomechanics :)

So that you could have those awesome looks like Anna navarre and Gunther hermann :D

Or how about a Omar vocoder :O

El_Bel
17th Jul 2008, 23:48
Our character would get different responses to people depending on how extensive our augmentations are or if they are visible. If we are augged-up-the-arse like an MJ12 Commando people would have a VERY different reaction to the character opposed to a un-augmented character.

I second that.

About mech augs. There are companies that produce these things. I think only trained personnel,Jaime Reyes is a good example, but a *big* hospital should have one aug specialist doctor. But i think they can be sold on the street like drugs. "Hey man, you looking for augmentations? I have something new from china, good stuff man. You can brake a wall with a punch with this baby.. Yes i know how to install it.. Pf, you want anesthesia? Go to a hospital if you want sh1t like that. Here we do it the manly way. You drink whiskey to dull your senses, i cut your arm and i install the aug.. What? Hey you aint gonna find this **** on a hospital bro, here on the street is the real deal.. Yes it is going to hurt but its worth it!!"

Fen
18th Jul 2008, 12:13
I second that.

About mech augs. There are companies that produce these things. I think only trained personnel,Jaime Reyes is a good example, but a *big* hospital should have one aug specialist doctor. But i think they can be sold on the street like drugs. "Hey man, you looking for augmentations? I have something new from china, good stuff man. You can brake a wall with a punch with this baby.. Yes i know how to install it.. Pf, you want anesthesia? Go to a hospital if you want sh1t like that. Here we do it the manly way. You drink whiskey to dull your senses, i cut your arm and i install the aug.. What? Hey you aint gonna find this **** on a hospital bro, here on the street is the real deal.. Yes it is going to hurt but its worth it!!"

This is EXACTLY the type of stuff I would love to see in DX3.

Blade_hunter
18th Jul 2008, 12:58
Ok this looks to be a classic method, like the games when you can create our weapons and items.
To create augs with items we must make "useless" items and when we find the right guy we give him our pieces and he make the special aug canister for us :scratch:

Bahmo
7th Aug 2008, 07:15
Call me crazy, but I want an animorphs Augmentation. Ever since playing Deus Ex, I've loved the vast amounts of fauna in the environments, and being able to become it would be cool. Imagine the possibilities. You could spy on any environment as the omnipresent rat (careful of being stepped on!), reach the top of a skyscraper as a city pidgeon, use a cat morph to declare war on those rats, and eat them for health points, and yes, become a Karkian and devour any punk who tries to cramp your style. Farfetched, yes, but awesome.

Share your own thoughts for augs!

DXeXodus
7th Aug 2008, 07:35
Merged new thread with existing aug thread.

Oh, and I renamed it to design an aug for Missdenton :)

Fen
7th Aug 2008, 12:13
Call me crazy, but I want an animorphs Augmentation. Ever since playing Deus Ex, I've loved the vast amounts of fauna in the environments, and being able to become it would be cool. Imagine the possibilities. You could spy on any environment as the omnipresent rat (careful of being stepped on!), reach the top of a skyscraper as a city pidgeon, use a cat morph to declare war on those rats, and eat them for health points, and yes, become a Karkian and devour any punk who tries to cramp your style. Farfetched, yes, but awesome.

Share your own thoughts for augs!

I think your playing the wrong game.

Deus Ex is a not-so-distant cyberpunk game which delves into the emerging biomodification and augmentation trend that currently dominates a lot of scientific research. It is not a game about wizards and magic where you can cast fireballs and turn into animals.

Bahmo
7th Aug 2008, 21:07
While to be fair, you are far from the first person to criticize this, you are somewhat misassociating transforming into animals with wizards and magic. In an era of advanced genetics, there's no reason why it couldn't be done scientifically. The only problem is that maybe it is too advanced for a 21st-Century game, but I disagree with anyone who says it wouldn't fit gameplay-wise. Deus Ex has always had open-ended gameplay, and really, using a transformation solution to things is no more lunatic than assuming that every building has man-sized air-ducts, but the occupants never wise up to that.

jcp28
7th Aug 2008, 22:26
While to be fair, you are far from the first person to criticize this, you are somewhat misassociating transforming into animals with wizards and magic. In an era of advanced genetics, there's no reason why it couldn't be done scientifically. The only problem is that maybe it is too advanced for a 21st-Century game, but I disagree with anyone who says it wouldn't fit gameplay-wise. Deus Ex has always had open-ended gameplay, and really, using a transformation solution to things is no more lunatic than assuming that every building has man-sized air-ducts, but the occupants never wise up to that.


While true, I don't really think people want to transform into animals unless it fits the purpose of the game. Like Fen was saying while using his (apprently)confusing hyperbole(I hope), augmentation and biomodication are more what this game is about.
I could see some minor research into such experiments, but if this is a prequel, which I still lean toward, it won't have that. If it's a sequel, then I can trust the developers won't make it StarTreky like IW. The technology likely won't have advanced far enough for that to happen. There could be some isolated groups doing similar experiments, but realistically, this would never happen.

Igoe
8th Aug 2008, 02:04
Ok, here we go:

Since it was possible to get through the ENTIRE game of DX without ever using an aug (I have done so) the augs are, in fact, carrots.

A carrot is a "trinket" put into a game to drive exploration. Weapon mods, ammo, lockpicks, what have you. Skill points were ALSO carrots.


I cannot, repeat, CANNOT overemphasize the importance of carrots. Look at IW. IW did NOT have enough carrots, with the removal of skill points, the merging of lockpicks and multitools, the fact you can only use 2 weapon mods on a gun, etc, near the end of the game (halfway for me) I was so stocked there wasn't any REASON to go exploring because I had PLENTY more crap than I needed. Bioshock was another classic example. Eventually you just end up leaving a bunch of stuff lying around because you CANT CARRY IT. Diverse carrots help ensure players are constantly hunting for SOMETHING.


* * * * *
IF ANY DEVELOPER EVER READS THIS!!! PLEASE, YOU HAVE TO CRAM AS MUCH CRAP TO PICK UP IN THE GAME AS POSSIBLE. YOU REALLY CANT GO WRONG HERE. THE CASUAL PLAYERS SIMPLY WILL IGNORE THE CARROTS AND THE EXPERIENCED PLAYERS WILL HAVE A REASON TO EXPLORE AND PLAY MULTIPLE TIMES.
* * * * *


All that aside (what a rant, ne?)

I think some of the augs in their pre-states could use some carrots.

I think yet ANOTHER bar needs to be added to your augs, a metal reserve, where you keep a supply of metal in your system...somewhere.

This metal can be used to form the spydrone, make your hands as hard as steel, what have you, and it provides another carrot to pick up. Since some people wont use those augs, they wont need the metal carrot, but for those who do, its something else to collect. Realistically it feels right because you have to assemble things from SOMETHING. IF DX3 is indeed a prequel, the augs will be more crude, and require a less sophisticated way of working, and I think the metal reserve would be a good idea.

Take it ONE step further and have an aug to regenerate/conserve metal.

So you have bioenergy AND metal that you need to watch. Bioenergy will be the most common, but the metal will be for those who want an extra layer of depth. Hell, the meter doesnt even have to BE there unless you have one of the augs in question, so a casual player might not even NOTICE the bar exists.

Sorry for the long read, just my 2 cents.

Jimmy Rabbitte
8th Aug 2008, 03:23
I almost never used augs in DX1.. only the flashlight and the invisibility one. I LOVED the plasmids in Bioshock but obviously those are too over-the top for DX1. Some of them might be used, though, like being able to brainwash an enemy into fighting for you.

Here's a thought: If in the game a majority of people you run into are nano-augmented, that could allow you to 'hack' people's minds. One of the characters in Ghost in the Shell (The Laughing Man) could hack the cyberbrains of people in real time, editing out his face and even making himself fully invisible. Again, any adaptation of this in DX3 shouldn't be as over-the-top or powerful, but they can definitely take a page out of that book.

Romeo
8th Aug 2008, 06:25
I would also like a "Backpack Slot", which would be like a mod, except it wouldn't actually mod your character, it would just become what you needed it to be. A few examples:

Spiderbot - Unpacks into a pilotable Spiderbot, which is unarmed at level 1, has a light electrical attack at level 2, and has a heavy electric attack and self-destruct ability at level 3.

Ammo Pack - Provides a small area for ammo at level 1, a decent size at level 2, and a massive size at level 3.

EMF Scanning - Scans an area of 15 feet, and notes all non-organic targets at level 1, at level 2 this radius is increased to 30 feet and differentiate between friendlies and enemies, and at level 3 it is sensitive enough to pick up organic targets as well, in a 45 foot radius.

If there is a flame-thrower in the game, using that weapon would disallow the use of the backpack. Just my ideas.

Blade_hunter
8th Aug 2008, 15:55
The plasmids is a sort of alternate tactical weapons with their uni ammo, the biomods in DX are more a sort of body enhancers than other things.

In DX 2 we a weapon but it's automated, the spydrone is the same from DX

In DX we have no weapons except the spy drone, but it's not a true weapon, we can't combat with this weapon

In DX1 we have the choice we can use a biomod or a suit, in DX 2 we have only the biomods without, shield biomods and some biomods that can act like skills.

Bioshock is more a classic FPS than DX, the plasmids have an use against our foes, the biomods most of times are used in ourself, thats the main difference.

In bioshock most plasmids can be replaced by a weapon, the tel├ękinesis is the HL 2 grav gun

In DX1 most biomods can be replaced by a suit the cloak can be replaced by the thermoptic camo


To come back on the subject, I think some kind of powers are suited for DX and some others aren't fitted for DX, some kind of powers are more suited to be skills, and others to be items...

Fen
8th Aug 2008, 16:50
To come back on the subject, I think some kind of powers are suited for DX and some others aren't fitted for DX, some kind of powers are more suited to be skills, and others to be items...

I agree. I see a lot of people advocating for things like spydrone aug and bot domination augs. Both of these break a few too many laws of science for them to ever be a something that might exist. I of course then argue against them.

This doesnt mean they should be taken out of the game however. Just modified a bit so they arent completely unrealistic. Having drones like the spider drones in DX2, great. Having your character able to attach his PDA (or whatever he uses to hack) to a bot and hack it, would be awsome.

The DX games are based in the future, not an alternate reality or something. The laws of science must be accounted for. Sure you can bend the rules a bit, but you cant just break them.

EDIT: Just to Bahamo

In an era of advanced genetics, there's no reason why it couldn't be done scientifically.
Sorry, but your going to have to break one of the most fundamental laws of physics (The Law of conservation of energy) to turn a person into a bird and back again.

Romeo
8th Aug 2008, 21:30
Hehe, I'm sure were going to have to break that to explain half the things we can do in Deus Ex. Still, armors would be nice to have back... Or at least, some visual customization.

Psychomorph
9th Aug 2008, 01:25
Blood Sensor - nicknamed: Bloodhound (black market)

Allows the user to get a sense for blood (vampire effect), not only you get to feel the presence of lifeforms (through thin materials), you get the ability to track the slightest (micro)trace of blood material.
CSI agents could use that augmentation in a limitted (controlled) form, but black market products may have a much stronger effect, with possible side effects.

Side effect: Some individuals can feel sick when the augmentation is in use (effect can remain for a short time span after use). Observing a human sized subject from close can increase the feel of sickness.

Jimmy Rabbitte
9th Aug 2008, 06:31
lolwut

I know you're not using the scientific impossibility argument against using mods in DX....:scratch:

Just because plasmids and augs are different doesn't mean DX3 has to abide by some restriction. In fact it would be better if they innovated. Franchises that repeat and reiterate game mechanics are weak.

Fen
9th Aug 2008, 07:15
lolwut

I know you're not using the scientific impossibility argument against using mods in DX....:scratch:


Your saying that we should just disregard the world of Deus Ex thats already been created. Deus Ex was built apon scientific plausability. But hey, you'd rather have a cool looking explosion or gimmicks in place of a game that has continuity.

Jimmy Rabbitte
9th Aug 2008, 17:25
Your saying that we should just disregard the world of Deus Ex thats already been created. Deus Ex was built apon scientific plausability. But hey, you'd rather have a cool looking explosion or gimmicks in place of a game that has continuity.

I'm saying that they shouldn't have to repeat or reiterate previous augs otherwise the game will be boring. Don't put words in my mouth.

And if you think nanites are scientifically plausible you need a reality check.

Fen
9th Aug 2008, 19:00
I'm saying that they shouldn't have to repeat or reiterate previous augs otherwise the game will be boring. Don't put words in my mouth.


Im sorry, I didnt know that "I know you're not using the scientific impossibility argument against using mods in DX" and "they shouldn't have to repeat or reiterate previous augs otherwise the game will be boring" meant the same thing. Silly me. Maybe you should be more clear when you post.



And if you think nanites are scientifically plausible you need a reality check.
Then there is a hell of a lot of wasted money going into nanotechnology research at the moment isnt there?

minus0ne
9th Aug 2008, 23:16
And if you think nanites are scientifically plausible you need a reality check.
:lol:


... just... :lol: :p :D :lol: :rolleyes:

Romeo
10th Aug 2008, 00:06
Doesn't really matter if they're plausible or not anyways, they're going to be in - deal with it and get back to topic, please. Thank you.

Jimmy Rabbitte
10th Aug 2008, 22:53
In retrospect I may have been hasty to say that nanomedicine is impossible, It's been a while since I've taken the time to read about it, most of my scientific curiousity has been spent reading about other things (mostly physics.) Last I bothered reading about it was someone ranting about how humans would never be compatible with nanites and vice versa.

Regardless, they're still speculative, so saying they're possible or impossible are both wrong.

Anyways, back on topic, my argument is that the augs in the new game might be more fun if they granted temporary skills (like the spy drone) as well as buffs. I always took the covert approach in the game so the augs that made you able to lift heavy **** and take more damage were rarely used by me. I liked using the spy drone and invisibility instead.

Some things I'd like to see are, like I said before, being able to hack computers and augmented humans from a distance, maybe being able to temporarily disable cameras, alarms, etc from a distance, being able to eavesdrop in many ways from a distance, being able to confuse and distract enemies with targets that aren't there.

Psychomorph
11th Aug 2008, 00:08
PSI augmentation

Telepathy
You gain limitted enhanced mental and telepathic abilities. You can influence the oponent by causing hallucinations, making them believe they heared a sound, or saw "something", maybe even felt something (like someone tapped their shoulder).

Telekinesis
The hardcore version of that augmentation (enhanced state) can be even telekinesis, you gain limitted abilities to move objects. No crazy things like making enemies fly, but rather tactical small scaled aspects, like operating a switch from distance, moving a bottle, etc.

A combination of both can have a devastating psychological effect.

Jerion
11th Aug 2008, 00:23
Just for the heck of it...

The "Old Skool" Aug. Turn it on and you see the world with DX 1 graphics. :lol:

Jimmy Rabbitte
11th Aug 2008, 00:34
Just for the heck of it...

The "Old Skool" Aug. Turn it on and you see the world with DX 1 graphics. :lol:

I'd like to see someone play through the game with the matrix scrolling text cheat activated. I'm sure it's been done, though..

Larington
11th Aug 2008, 07:39
Last thing I read about nanites was the idea that a nanite drone travelling through a human body would be able to detect when it was near a target, such as a cancer cell, and release the drug/chemical stored within it to target the cancer cell specifically. How effective this would be I don't know.

I think, perhaps as a way of grounding our suggestions into the DX universe it would be advisable to go back, read the descriptions of all the biomods in DX1 and see what they say about the methods the biomods go about doing their jobs? I can't remember if it goes into specifics.

When I think about it, those devices on next generation starships that 'build' the food out of thin air are essentially miniature universal constructors, all that power (A device that could make anything from knives to nuclear radiation) domesticated into this little device... Such a big risk for someone to tamper with it and get everyone aboard a ship killed.

CJoRNero
11th Aug 2008, 09:45
First off, I'd like to see both Biomods and Mechanical mods in DX3. Some mechanical mods however, cannot be upgraded. And once one is installed, you can't take it out. Biomods on the other hand, can be switched out and upgraded at will. Mechanical mods also (unless stated otherwise) increase fall damage, damage from electrical attacks and some decrease movement speed.
Mechanical ANYWHERE BioBattery Pack-Occupies any modification slot, increasing your maximum bio energy. This is the only mechanical mod that can be removed. Can be upgraded 3 times. After the third upgrade, it is no longer removable.

-Eye/Cranial-
--Mechanical--
Eye Gun(Gun)-Just like it sounds, One eye is replaced with a gun, which fires small calibur round. It can pass for a real eye...except when the cartridge is spent. Can be loaded with a solid slug or high potency traq dart. Reloading is a serious pain, and don't expect to be able to make the ammo yourself. Having one real eye, your lose a bit of your depth perception, but the targeting system built into your other eye compensates for it...for the most part. Great for assassinations or a last ditch effort. This mod cannot be upgraded.

Tactical Advanced Imaging Computer(Active)-Again, one of your eyes is replaced, but with a high powered camera and onboard computer. it allows you to zoom in when using a weapon without a mounted scope, and also identify useful pieces of information that otherwise would be overlooked, such as footprints, or fingerprint residue on keyboards and keypads. Can also be used to fool retinal scanners when active. Wiring can be upgraded twice on this mod.

Black Market Sonar Imaging Unit(Active) Installed on/in your head. this looks a bit like a helmet, though don't be fooled; It doesn't offer any protection from getting your brain splattered everywhere. Bouncing ultrasonic soundwaves around you, painting a picture of your surroundings, giving you somewhat of an idea of a floor plan and location of patrols. The circuitry on this mod can be upgraded, as well as the sensors. Upgrading the circuitry decreases energy drain, while upgrading the sensors increases energy drain by 50% but can see around obstacles better. Maximum of 3 upgrades.

-Eye/Cranial-
--Bio--
Black Market Enhanced Vision(Passive)-Increases ballistic weapon accuracy. at highr levels, POIs and armor weak points are highlighted for easy targeting.

Thermal Vision(Active)-A toggleable heat vision, making sniping from a long distance easier in low light situations and the ability to see camouflaged targets.

IR Vision-Lets you see IR light, such as lasers. At higher levels, lets you see the viewing angle of security cameras and maxed, lets you shoot out a laser of your own, effectively overloading the optical sensors of most security cameras. Be careful, this might set off a silent alarm, so be quick about getting past those cameras!

-Arms-
--Mechanical--

Black Market Arm Cannon(Gun)- Ever want to make things go boom? :) Now you can! with your very own arm cannon! The first two upgrades make it look more lifelike, second increases refire rate and lowers recoil, and the final one halves the reload time! Reduces weight you can carry and increases your fall damage.

Cybrarms(Passive)- Replaces your arms with....hunks of metal, that you can move! Reduces recoil (by a LOT), scope drift, movement speed, weight you can carry and melee attack speed. Increases melee damage and you can lift heavier stuff. Also greatly increases fall damage if you don't have TekSpine and BOOTZ. These arms cannot be damaged by ballistic fire.
You cannot use Camo or Masking with this THEY'rE HUNKS OF METAL.

SARM(Active/Passive)- These arms are built for speed! Though they are made of metal, they move really fast! Almost as light as flesh, but faster! Increases melee attack speed and faster weapon switches and reload times. Can be juiced with extra bio energy to increase speed to dangerous levels, using up bio energy and damaging you. Upgrading this decreases the physical damage taken but increases energy cost. At later levels, you will only use energy/take damage when performing actions that can be sped up when active.

--Bio--
Enhanced Strength(Passive)- Increases how much you can carry, melee damage, and how far/how hard you can throw stuff.

Steady Arms(Active)- Decreases scope drift and increases ballistic weapons accuracy.

Black Market Repair(Active/passive)- Your very own mechanical mod repair station! When in passive, reduces effect of electrical damage on mechanical mods. Upgrade decreases energy usage.

-Skeleton/Skin-
--Mechanical--

Thick Armor(Passive)- Greatly reduces the amount of damage you take from ballistic fire. When damaged, decreases your movement speed as it gets more damaged.

Black Market Thin Armor (Passive)-Reduces ballistic damage. small movement speed penalty.

TekSpine(Passive/Active)- Reduces fall damage, increases max carry weight, decreases energy use of other active mechanical mods, when active, activates all mechanical mods for 1 energy cost. Cannot be upgraded.

Bio

Optical Camo(Active)- People can't see you! Higher levels decrease energy drain.

Thermal Masking(Active)- Most bots and security cameras can't see you! Higher levels decrease energy drain.

Black Market Enviro-Converts some environmental hazard damage to bio energy. Higher levels decrease damage (when maxed, you don't take damage from ENVIRONMENTAL hazards..if someone shoots you with a poison dart, you still take damage normally).

Legs

Mechanical

Black Market BOOTZ(Passive/Active) Decreases weight penalty of all other mechanical mods, and greatly decreases fall damage. When Activated, reatly increases jump height (though you'll make a bit of a racket...jump jets tend to do that).

LegLAW (Gun)- A rocket launcher, in your foot! When aiming, you cannot move, and you can't move at normal speed until after you reload it....which takes a while...so don't do it unless you have to....but whatever you shoot..had better have life or metal insurance. reloading this badboy takes a LOT of bioenergy as well as a few parts in your inventory.

BotPlant- Manufactures bots. Can be upgraded to manufacture multiple kind of bots and or better bots. Spy drones, Bot Dom, and or Mine drones. max of 4 upgrades, 3 levels per drone.

Bio

Padfoot(Passive)- Your movements become quieter (at higher levels, silent).

Speedy(Passive/Active)-When in passive, slightly increases movement speed and jump height. When activated, increases are VERY noticeable, but energy drain is quite steep. Higher levels increase speed bonus and decrease energy drain..a little....

Black Market Gek(Active) Gravity has no power over you! you can walk, run, even play on walls! Upgrades decrease energy drain. View and accuracy will be hindered on walls but not celings.


i'm sure i can think of a few more...hands maybe? ...

Fen
11th Aug 2008, 16:41
PSI augmentation

Telepathy
You gain limitted enhanced mental and telepathic abilities. You can influence the oponent by causing hallucinations, making them believe they heared a sound, or saw "something", maybe even felt something (like someone tapped their shoulder).

Telekinesis
The hardcore version of that augmentation (enhanced state) can be even telekinesis, you gain limitted abilities to move objects. No crazy things like making enemies fly, but rather tactical small scaled aspects, like operating a switch from distance, moving a bottle, etc.

A combination of both can have a devastating psychological effect.

Sigh, It looks like my work here will never be complete :(

Deus Ex 1 offered explainations as to how nanites could perform the tasks that they did. Sure, some were a bit far fetched. But on a whole werent all that bad. If you can provide an explanation of how nanites travelling through the blood stream would allow you to telepathically move objects with the power of your mind, then I would love to hear it. However the only real plausable answer is 'magic'. Having superpowers without an explanation for it would go a long way in ruining the game for me.

A few examples in DX
Environmental Resistance
Induced keratin production strengthens all epithelial tissues and reduces the agent's vunerability to radiation and other toxins.

Combat strength
Sorting rotors accelerate calcium ion concentration in the sarcoplasmic reticulum, increasing an agent's muscle speed several-fold and multiplying the damage they inflict in melee combat.

Energy Shield
Polyanilene capacitors below the skin absorb heat and electricity, reducing the damage recieved from flame, electrical and plasma attacks.


While these would have some serious problems. They are relatively plausable. These explanations make sense and assuming scientists in the future could overcome a few hurdles. A technology such as this could exist.

Take something like telekenises, and you cannot give a decent scientific reason why someone with little nano-machines in their body can move something with the power of their mind.

gamer0004
11th Aug 2008, 17:13
And actually some technologies already exisits, as showed in another topic there is already a scientific way for invisibility, and I believe there were possibilities for eye-augmentation, maybe even strength augs, and healing purposes.

Chemix
11th Aug 2008, 19:00
Theoretically you could alter the brain somehow to give telekinetic results, it's simply a long ways off and more likely to lead to mental retardation than enhancement, but it would have to be done regardless, during the fetal stage, otherwise the new neural connections wouldn't form for 60-70 some odd years.

Blade_hunter
11th Aug 2008, 20:29
for the telekinesis, I have a counter proposal, same effect, but with some logic, it a gravity control
this mod is located on the arm ...

for the telepathy, no proposal, but we can use a sort of grenade that create holograms ...

Psychomorph
11th Aug 2008, 23:19
Sigh, It looks like my work here will never be complete :(

Deus Ex 1 offered explainations as to how nanites could perform the tasks that they did. Sure, some were a bit far fetched. But on a whole werent all that bad. If you can provide an explanation of how nanites travelling through the blood stream would allow you to telepathically move objects with the power of your mind, then I would love to hear it. However the only real plausable answer is 'magic'. Having superpowers without an explanation for it would go a long way in ruining the game for me.

A few examples in DX
Environmental Resistance
Induced keratin production strengthens all epithelial tissues and reduces the agent's vunerability to radiation and other toxins.

Combat strength
Sorting rotors accelerate calcium ion concentration in the sarcoplasmic reticulum, increasing an agent's muscle speed several-fold and multiplying the damage they inflict in melee combat.

Energy Shield
Polyanilene capacitors below the skin absorb heat and electricity, reducing the damage recieved from flame, electrical and plasma attacks.


While these would have some serious problems. They are relatively plausable. These explanations make sense and assuming scientists in the future could overcome a few hurdles. A technology such as this could exist.

Take something like telekenises, and you cannot give a decent scientific reason why someone with little nano-machines in their body can move something with the power of their mind.
I thought about sort of an implant in the cortex that increases the brain performance, so that via radiation information can be transferred (through leptones or so). This information would unconsciously manipulate the oponents cortical activity as how you intended.
Because the human brain is no computer and you have no access to it as such, the manipulation would happen through will and concentration in a very limitted way.

Or something like that.


Hmm, what about some implant that somehow increases the natural magnetic field of the body? You'd be able to manipulate technology, like disturbing cameras, etc. Reason why not to use technology for this; technology can be tracked and opponents can have counter measures, while going the biological way (bio-warfare) is more effective and unconventional, less counter measures, less ways to control it.

Fen
12th Aug 2008, 15:24
And actually some technologies already exisits, as showed in another topic there is already a scientific way for invisibility, and I believe there were possibilities for eye-augmentation, maybe even strength augs, and healing purposes.

Yes, all we need to do is refine the technology down to something that can be performed by small scale machinery.


Theoretically you could alter the brain somehow to give telekinetic results, it's simply a long ways off and more likely to lead to mental retardation than enhancement, but it would have to be done regardless, during the fetal stage, otherwise the new neural connections wouldn't form for 60-70 some odd years.

Chemix, you sound like your referring to a study, and if you are, I would love to read it. However as far as I know, there is no way to alter a persons brain to give them telekinetic powers.


for the telekinesis, I have a counter proposal, same effect, but with some logic, it a gravity control
this mod is located on the arm ...


Sorry bladehunter, but gravity is a phenomenon that exists when there are objects that are extremely large in mass. Gravity control is even less plausable than telekinesis because you would require the ability to make an object have the mass of around half the earth for it to be at all useful.


I thought about sort of an implant in the cortex that increases the brain performance, so that via radiation information can be transferred (through leptones or so). This information would unconsciously manipulate the oponents cortical activity as how you intended.
Because the human brain is no computer and you have no access to it as such, the manipulation would happen through will and concentration in a very limitted way.


Radiation would not work, due to the complete lack of specificity that you would have. You might be able to fry someones brain this way, but not influence their thoughts.

Its interesting to read these arguments, but there is no way to grant someone telekinetic or telopathic powers. There has been research done in this field, and it has not produced any plausable reults.

xiaokiraa
12th Aug 2008, 15:39
As far as reality goes to defy gravity, there was an experiment a while ago in which them managed to get a frog suspended in mid air using a magnetic field. At the moment this is only one of the tests performed in a laboratory so far. There is also a lot of research into artificial gravity, some with the implication of using it in space craft.

As for science fiction, well, have you played half life 2 and used the gravity gun? Far fetched I know, but just using it as an example. Also, many sci-fi shows manipulate gravity all the time, and no one gives it a second though most of the time. Ever wondered why the crew of the starship Enterprise aren't floating off all the time?

I'm not sure how the use of gravitational manipulation would work in a game, but I like the idea. :)

Psychomorph
12th Aug 2008, 22:13
Radiation would not work, due to the complete lack of specificity that you would have. You might be able to fry someones brain this way, but not influence their thoughts.

Its interesting to read these arguments, but there is no way to grant someone telekinetic or telopathic powers. There has been research done in this field, and it has not produced any plausable reults.
Radiation was maybe the wrong word. It is known that living cells emit photone particles (light), the person who discovered this in the 70's believes that photones are the smallest, most subtle kind of information transmitters, because testing showed that cells, taken from the same organism, communicate. If I remember correctly there was an experiment showing that without "visual" contact one cell was forced to perform mitose and the other cell, located somewhere else, did the same (do not quote me on this though, not sure if I remember correctly).
If at all that might be the base for some kind of telepathy (information transmition), but this is way to theoretical I admit, DX3 should stay more "grounded" I guess.

My "blood sensor" would be neat though. :D

Blade_hunter
14th Aug 2008, 09:23
Gravity control less plausible than Telekinesis :lol:

The gravity control is actually in a speculation state, but it's more plausible than telekinesis, and in sci fi movies and games the gravity control exists instead of telekinesis.
http://www.nasa.gov/lb/centers/glenn/research/warp/gravstat.html

Fen
14th Aug 2008, 10:52
That article basically says, that gravity and electromagnetic fields have very similar properties. We know a decent amount about electromagnetic fields so once we crack gravity, we will be able to manipulate it in the same way. However atm, gravity requires very large bodies of mass, which arent exactly something we can just make. Notice how the next step is science :p. We dont even have any scientifically plausable theories on how we could manipulate gravity atm.

True however, telekinesis is no closer to becoming solved. I would put gravity control on par with telekinesis. Both being wayyyyy to futuristic for a deus ex game.

As for the levitation frog study physchomorph, I remmeber that. It was pretty cool. However if I remember correctly, they were using a very strong electromagnetic field to levitate that frog. For the same reason why you dont get an MRI with a knife in your pocket, practical electromagnetic fields are not exactly a useable technology :p

Psychomorph
14th Aug 2008, 11:00
Yeah, it was a stupid idea. :D

Blade_hunter
14th Aug 2008, 14:40
In 60 years it can be applied

Psychomorph
14th Aug 2008, 15:11
What time is DX3? :p

Blade_hunter
14th Aug 2008, 18:37
Sequel :D

Romeo
15th Aug 2008, 01:15
Oh god, not this again... I think it'd be cool if Eidos checked in here and took the idea that they thought was the best. Kind of a "fan-appreciation" style doo-hicky.

DXeXodus
15th Aug 2008, 04:34
Or if you read my first post, make a competition for it like bethesda did with fallout 3 :)

Romeo
15th Aug 2008, 05:37
That was more or less what I was implying. I like the idea quite a bit.

Fen
15th Aug 2008, 08:03
In 60 years it can be applied

I would be leaning towards 300+ years myself.

We dont even have any scientific theories as to how it can be done yet.

K^2
15th Aug 2008, 15:30
As for the levitation frog study physchomorph, I remmeber that. It was pretty cool. However if I remember correctly, they were using a very strong electromagnetic field to levitate that frog. For the same reason why you dont get an MRI with a knife in your pocket, practical electromagnetic fields are not exactly a useable technology :p
They were using a magnetic field from a very strong permanent superconducting magnet. You're right though, it is the same thing as MRI magnet, and it is therefore for the same reason that you can't put it into your pocket. You calso can't controll it very well. Quite simply, a strong enough magnet can repel living tissue. Largest magnets they got can levitate a frog. To levitate a man... Not to mention that if you could build a magnet like that, any piece of feromagnetic metal in the vicinity is going to become an instant projectile heading for your magnet. I've been around an 11 Tesla magnet, which is a few times stronger than medical MRI magnets. The place to leave your credit cards, keys, watches, etc. is about 4 meters away from the magnet. Any closer and they present danger.

you would require the ability to make an object have the mass of around half the earth for it to be at all useful.
You need Earth's mass to apply 1g from 6,000km. From 1m, you need (6E6)^2 times less. That's only about 160 million tons. At typical neutron matter densities, you can make the whole thing the size of a watch.

Don't ask me how you are going to hold a watch that weighs as much as 2,000 aircraft carriers, though.

Romeo
15th Aug 2008, 20:25
Didn't that frog also pass out during the experiment, and die a few minutes after from cardiac arrest? lol

K^2
15th Aug 2008, 20:53
Yeah, but to be fair, that's most likely from them moving the frog in the magnetic field. That causes current flows through tissue, which can cause fibrillation.

Romeo
15th Aug 2008, 21:17
Oh, you misread me, I don't feel remorse for the thing. Frogs are only useful as kissing inuendos, hallucinagins and french insults. lol

K^2
15th Aug 2008, 22:04
I was just saying that it isn't the field or levitation itself that killed it. So this can, in principal, be used to levitate a human without lethal consequences.

One thing I'm not sure about is the Hall effect in blood streams. I don't think it would be dangerous, but I don't want to bother with computing the actual charges that will build up, so I don't know for sure.

Romeo
16th Aug 2008, 00:15
I don't think it was the actual act of levitation that killed it either... I believe that an extremely powerful magnet, introduced to a body that relies upon electrical impulses to function must have some adverse effects.

Demiurge
16th Aug 2008, 18:26
Some joker a while back mentioned a time-travel aug which you used to go back in time and stop IW from happening. (We need it! Even as a secret level!:cool: )

Some of my Ideas for Augs are:

Electrical Discharge [Active]: Either created by having nanites create rapid moving keratin plates on outside of the body, producing friction and generating charge, or by directly using the agent's bioelectrical energy. Either way the agent can electrocute enemies (like a riot prod or lethal), overload electrical panels, use against bots, temporarily restore power to something, etc. This could be particularly fun on water levels. I personally have always wanted to give spiderbots a taste of their own medicine.

Hydrobiotic Drain [Active]: The Agent converts a small portion of health to generate a large amount of water. Could be used to short-circuit bots, setting a trap for electrocution, slipping up guards, if you're thirsty, to make people think you've been swimming. I personally think it's just classier than JC taking a whiz. Alternatively the skill could be used to turn enemies into puddles of water, for aforementioned uses, or just to not leave a body behind.

Auto-Reactive Vision: This vision mode highlights anything that is moving, bots, people or the incredible plotline.

Acid vision: The in-game colours become super-saturated, helping your agent to locate... no, lets not have any pointless fighting, let's just sit down here, on this crate and enjoy all the pretty colours. ;)

On another topic, I want to see and fight Submarine bots.

El_Bel
16th Aug 2008, 19:39
Acid vision: The in-game colours become super-saturated, helping your agent to locate...no, lets not have any pointless fighting, let's just sit down here, on this crate and enjoy all the pretty colours

Acid vision: The in-game colours become super-saturated, helping your agent to locate...Wait why to locate? Suddenly the character realizes that life is only an illusion and we are all one consciousness experiencing itself from different angles. Oh look at all the pretty colors. Wait is that god? :o Oh god says he loves me, and he always has. I feel one with the whole world, i feel for the first time in my life real love.. *Bioelectric energy ends and the player is surrounded by the not so loving NSF*

I like the way you are thinking ;)

Hope this isnt braking the rules, if it does feel free to delete this.

jcp28
16th Aug 2008, 20:28
Acid vision: The in-game colours become super-saturated, helping your agent to locate...Wait why to locate? Suddenly the character realizes that life is only an illusion and we are all one consciousness experiencing itself from different angles. Oh look at all the pretty colors. Wait is that god? :o Oh god says he loves me, and he always has. I feel one with the whole world, i feel for the first time in my life real love.. *Bioelectric energy ends and the player is surrounded by the not so loving NSF*

I like the way you are thinking ;)

Hope this isnt braking the rules, if it does feel free to delete this.

I think that is a little off-topic. But the protagonist should be able to use some sort of hallucinogenic drug. LSD may end up giving way to something more powerful in the future, given trends of other drugs. But even if it doesn't, there could be a way to put some kind of "Super-LSD" in the game.

K^2
16th Aug 2008, 23:40
I don't think there would be any point in the character taking drugs, but LSD dart gun is full of possibilities.

Demiurge
17th Aug 2008, 06:41
Brilliant El_Bel! Much better description, that's exactly the kind of aug I want!:D
Maybe we could make it like the SCARECROW Drug in batman? I like the idea of loading that in a dart gun, but at the same time I've always wanted Zyme vials to do something more! Dammit if I want my character to be an Acid casualty fruitcake, he'll be one!

On topic: What about an aug that you shoot at someone like a dart (a cluster of high speed nanites) that burrow into an enemy or security camera's ocular parts and shows us what they are seeing, thus enabling us to see enemies puching in the numbers to a keypad or loggin on to a computer. Hey Eidos! This time I actually want to see people using computers and actually being logged on and tapping keys. Hope that's not too much to ask. Cheers ;)

K^2
17th Aug 2008, 08:15
On topic: What about an aug that you shoot at someone like a dart (a cluster of high speed nanites) that burrow into an enemy or security camera's ocular parts and shows us what they are seeing, thus enabling us to see enemies puching in the numbers to a keypad or loggin on to a computer. Hey Eidos! This time I actually want to see people using computers and actually being logged on and tapping keys. Hope that's not too much to ask. Cheers ;)
Great idea. Should work on bots too. And it should show their view in a small window to the side. Not simply take over our view. This way, you'd be able to move around, while making sure that the guard you are sneaking by isn't looking in your direction.

Demiurge
17th Aug 2008, 10:12
Hmmm the upgrade to this aug could be dominating the bot/camera or tranquilizing the human on demand! I'd incorporate this into my systems!

Jaden
21st Aug 2008, 23:03
I know it is a bit long but I hope you don't mind

Permanent Augmentation:

A light in case it gets dark. (This can be upgraded with an illegal biomod to include x-ray vision)

Cranial; IFF which colours your targeting cross-hair, green or red depending on the hostility of the target.

Ear; Info link

*Permanent augmentation: In the sense that all nano-agent start with them.


There are 3 different kinds of biomods, active semi-active and passive.

Active biomods:
Regeneration, drone biomods, targeting, vision enhancement, shocking grasp, water hands, degenerating air, electrostatic air, energy shield, EMP shield, cloak and thermal masking.

Semi-active: Duel vision, strength enhancement, melee enhancement, speed enhancement, Move Silent, sticky hands, sticky feet, environmental resistance, aqualung.

Passive biomods:
Neural interface (different then DX2), Passive fiber enhancement, strengthened bones, Power Recirculator and synthetic Heart.

Blood/Knoglemarv; by introducing lizard DNA into an embryos, the nanoagent has gained the ability to regenerate himself. Without bio energy use the agent will regenerate slowly, but can not grow back a lost limb, only on lvl 3 and up will this even be possible. Upgrading this gives the agent faster regeneration. All nanoagents has regeneration.

Lvl 1: slow regeneration, agent can not move while regeneration occurs.

Lvl 2: middle regeneration, agent can now move slowly while regeneration occurs.

Lvl 3: high regeneration, agent moves at half speed while regeneration occurs. And now he can also regrow a lost limb back (can’t move)

Lvl 4: high regeneration, agent moves at full speed while regeneration occurs. And now he is also able to move very slowly while regenerating a lost limb

Head:

Cranial (1); All nanoagents have the ability to incorporate a microchip into their head, one needs an medbots assistance. One such microships is the neural interface witch gives extra competence in different skills. Other microchips gives the users the ability to use different drones.

The different drones are; Spy Drone, Biotox Attack Drone, Hazard Drone, Aggressive Defence Drone.

Eyes (1); by introducing cat genetically sequence into an embryos, the nano-agent has gained infravision, this ability can be further enhanced by installing a vision enhancement biomod.
There is one drawback, the nanoagents eyes glow in the dark like cats. That is why a lot of nano-agents use sunglasses.

Lvl 1: Nightvision (Passive)
Lvl 2: Infravision
Lvl 3: See through walls (small radius)
Lvl 4: See through walls (large radius)

The better than normal eyesight of a nanoagent make them better at hitting and identifying targets, this can be enhanced by a biomod called targeting.

Lvl 1: increases accuracy (Passive)
Lvl 2: information about target
Lvl 3: improves accuracy even more, plus additional target information
Lvl 4: telescopic vision

Duel vision: When activated, provides vision enhancement under low-light conditions. Increases accuracy, provides information about target.
Lvl 1: Nightvision (Passive)
Lvl 2: Accuracy (Passive)
Lvl 3: Infravision
Lvl 4: Target information.

Arms: (1)
There are two types of muscles in the body, type 1, also called the red muscle fibre, which are slow and endurance, type 2, also called white muscle fibre, is quick and not as endurance.

An agent can enhance either type 1 or type 2 muscle fibers. The biomods are called.

Strength Enhancement (type 1):
Lvl 1: slightly increases type 1 muscle fibers. (Passive)
Lvl 2: averagely increases type 1 muscle fibers. (Passive after lvl 4)
Lvl 3: significantly increases type 1 muscle fibers.
Lvl 4: Greatly increases type 1 muscle fibers.

Melee Enhancement (type 2)
Lvl 1: slightly increases type 2 muscle fibers. (Passive)
Lvl 2: averagely increases type 2 muscle fibers. (Passive after lvl 4)
Lvl 3: significantly increases type 2 muscle fibers.
Lvl 4: Greatly increases type 2 muscle fibers.

Passive fiber enhancement (type 1 and 2).
Lvl 1: insignificant increase in type 1 and type 2 muscle fibers.
Lvl 2: a slight increase in type 1 and type 2 muscle fibers.
Lvl 3: slightly increase in type 1 and type 2 muscle fibers.
Lvl 4: less than average increase in type 1 and type 2 muscle fibers.

The passive fiber enhancement uses no bioelectrical energy, but increases both fibers slowly. This is often used by an agent that feels need to be versatile, or knows the danger of being on long missions without having a way to replenish bio-energy.

Hands (1)

Sticky hands (are only able to climb walls if you have sticky feet as well, at the same level)
Lvl 1: Able climb walls of 70 degrees
Lvl 2: Able climb walls of 80 degrees, plus slightly energy decrease
Lvl 3: Able climb walls of 85 degrees, plus averagely energy decrease
Lvl 4: Able climb walls of 90 degrees, plus significantly energy decrease

Shocking Grasp (EMP damage)
Lvl 1: Melee damage added slight EMP damage
Lvl 2: Melee damage added average EMP damage
Lvl 3: Melee damage added significant EMP damage, plus scrambling a low-grade bot.
Lvl 4: Melee damage added Greatly EMP damage, plus scrambling an average-grade bot.

Water hands (grows skin between fingers, so one can swim faster)
Lvl 1: slightly grows skin between fingers (10% faster swimming)
Lvl 2: averagely grows skin between fingers (15 % faster swimming)
Lvl 3: significantly grows skin between fingers (20 % faster swimming)
Lvl 4: Greatly grows skin between fingers (25 % faster swimming)

Legs: (1)

Speed Enhancement
Lvl 1: slightly increases running speed. (Passive)
Lvl 2: averagely increases running speed. (Passive after lvl 4)
Lvl 3: significantly increases running speed.
Lvl 4: Greatly increases running speed.

Move Silent
Lvl 1: Agent can sidestep without making a sound. (Passive)
Lvl 2: Agent can walk all he wants without making a sound. (Passive after lvl 4)
Lvl 3: Agent can run up to 2 meters from target without making a sound.
Lvl 4: Agent can run all he wants without making a sound.

sticky feet (are only able to climb walls if you have sticky hands as well, at the same level).
Lvl 1: Able climb walls of 70 degrees
Lvl 2: Able climb walls of 80 degrees, plus slightly energy decrease
Lvl 3: Able climb walls of 85 degrees, plus averagely energy decrease
Lvl 4: Able climb walls of 90 degrees, plus significantly energy decrease

Skeletal: (1)

Environmental resistance; which reduces damage taken from radiation and toxins by producing antitoxin.

Strengthened bones; makes the bones in your body stronger, thereby making your fist do additional damage, good for knocking people unconscious, with ones hands. Also increases distance you can fall without taking damage. When upgraded fully an agent will not be able to die of one headshot, unless close range.

Torso:

Lung (1); Aqualung, which extends lung capacity for swimming long distances.

Degenerating air, which blows molecules out of lung that sticks to metal/glass surfaces and slowly dissolves them.

Lvl 1: Bullet proof glass (dissolves), locks desolves
Lvl 2: Camera (sticks them in same position)
Lvl 3: Turrets (sticks them in same position)
Lvl 4: Slows robots movement (robot will not notice when you apply it)

Electrostatic air, which blows electrostatic air out of your lungs, at laser beams and they will temporarily disappear, energy cost lowered with upgrade and length increased.

Heart (1);

Power Recirculator (slow bio use)

Synthetic Heart (+1 to max of 1 Aug)

Tissue (2);

Energy Shield, which reduces damage from flame, electrical, and plasma attacks.
Lvl 1 passive

EMP Shield, which reduces damage from EMP attacks.
Lvl 1 passive

Cloak, which renders you invisible to organic creatures, does not affect bots, turrets, or cameras. Upgrading this mod decreases the amount of energy required to remained cloaked.

Thermal Masking, which renders the player invisible to bots, turrets, cameras, and any other non-organic units. Upgrading simply reduces the cost of maintaining the mask.


11 spots to spec ;-)

The augmentations I have left out from the 2 other games are.

Botdomination, Health leech drone:
The reason for leaving botdomination lies in the fact that the dues ex, I am thinking about has a skill system, therefore one can hack the terminals. Another reason I admit is because I never really took to it. The last reason is the same for health leech drone

Ballistics is not an augmentation anymore for nano-augmented agents, but the armour the nano-agent use protects against bullets and bladed weapons. This suit uses bio-energy when hit by bullets. Amount of damage depends on how you make your armour. :D . (only mechanical agents have a ballistics biomod)

DXeXodus
22nd Aug 2008, 04:04
Hands (1)

Sticky hands (are only able to climb walls if you have sticky feet as well, at the same level)
Lvl 1: Able climb walls of 70 degrees
Lvl 2: Able climb walls of 80 degrees, plus slightly energy decrease
Lvl 3: Able climb walls of 85 degrees, plus averagely energy decrease
Lvl 4: Able climb walls of 90 degrees, plus significantly energy decrease


Thanks for your post, but I have a problem with the above.

In real life and especially in most games, about 95% of the walls are 90 degrees to the ground. So, therefore, one would only be able to use that aug once you are level 4. Or if you are lucky enough to find a non-90degree wall somewhere. Sure, the levels can be designed with this in mind, but I wouldn't want sloped walls everywhere, especially if the game takes place in a real-world setting (which it hopefully does)

Come to think of it, the walls of the Statue of Liberties' base are sloped a little. But still, it seems a bit useless to me. My opinion though :)

Jaden
22nd Aug 2008, 08:06
Thanks for your post, but I have a problem with the above.

In real life and especially in most games, about 95% of the walls are 90 degrees to the ground. So, therefore, one would only be able to use that aug once you are level 4. Or if you are lucky enough to find a non-90degree wall somewhere. Sure, the levels can be designed with this in mind, but I wouldn't want sloped walls everywhere, especially if the game takes place in a real-world setting (which it hopefully does)

Come to think of it, the walls of the Statue of Liberties' base are sloped a little. But still, it seems a bit useless to me. My opinion though :)

Yes, perhaps... then maybe a time limit to how long you can stick instead, before the augmentation becomes inactive.

I like it because it adds versatility to a game... especially to a sniper, wanting to get up on a roof ;-)

or for the player who likes getting around without killing or getting caught. This way you can have perfectly secure checkpoints, that only an agent with this augmentation can get around, without having to talk, kill, make unconcious and so on.

DXeXodus
22nd Aug 2008, 09:01
I agree, a time limit may be better suited to this kind of augmentation. Basically it could just drain bioelectric energy really quickly at level one and alot slower at level four.

Not sure how they would explain it in terms of nano-technology though. :scratch:

Jaden
22nd Aug 2008, 09:30
Well maybe your hands grow small little sticky hairs (like spiders), depending on lvl of augmentation, the time it takes to wear off is how high you can climb.

gamer0004
22nd Aug 2008, 13:17
Just use proper implemented grenade climbing! No really, I love it.
No grenade jumping/falling though...

Abram730
10th Oct 2008, 11:21
Nanite infestation.... now that would be a concept that would have to be carefully managed, assuming it was included. It seems like the sort of thing that one would have few opportunities to use. Most of the defensive mechanical augs seem like they would work, though. And I like the sound of that "Adhesive Padding" though the science behind such a technology must be questionable if it's at the bottom of the list.

Body Storage....don't really think we need that. Of course, I'm sure there will be some obligatory escape level, but the whole thing just sounds cheesy to me, if not as bad as certain other ideas proposed here. But as far as design goes, they all sound pretty damn good.


The pads are being made and used in wall climing robots now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ascql_RoeBU
(14:00) ;)

Abram730
11th Oct 2008, 01:44
Here is an off the wall one.

darts(needles to thin to feel) that inject custom Toxoplasma(intercellular protozoan parasite able to control its host) loaded with custom bio memes and able to alter brain chemicals like dopamine for mood alteration. Low level would cause them to zone out if you needed to get by, with a schizophrenic episode of a few types like friend foe issues after. Higher levels would include carbon nanotube transmitters and nano sensors to give host vision and the voice of god(cell nano hybrids would fit the date). The person may listen to the voice in his head or they could induce punishment or death(deploy gene modification to cause botox production or Staphylococcal Enterotoxin to cause systematic Apoptosis cascade reactions). loads of stealth fun.

How this possession would work, would be PC POV would change to NPC with PC voice "If you want to live do exactly as I say". action would have PC voice issue instructions like "I want you to move over there" but wouldn't exactly translate except on highest level. Things like "open the gate" or "shoot that guard" would be spoken before the action is executed. Perhaps augmented PC's are resistant from immunological or structural differences.

I think botox is self explanitory but here is Apoptosis in a single cell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KTDz-ZisZ0

here are some real examples of parasitic mind control. Yes I said real.

Bugs in the Brain
Some microorganisms can manipulate neural circuitry better than we can.
http://www2.nau.edu/~bah/BIO471/Reader/Sapolsky_2003.pdf

liver fluke video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgAEeisfHW8

Toxoplasma Gondii, welcome your Heiliger Geist overlords as they do their human servants.
http://psychpundit.blogspot.com/2007/07/feline-parasite-alters-human.html
http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=9694&IBLOCK_ID=35


If you are thinking cells can't think so it couldn't be dynamic control.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbial_intelligence
http://www.astrobio.net/news/article2111.html
http://www.scientificblogging.com/howard_bloom/who_s_smarter_chimps_baboons_or_bacteria_the_power_of_group_iq_part_ii

possible future advent.
CONSCIOUS bio-electronic information processing bacterial unit or CBEIPBU
A living super brain.
http://www.geocities.com/erach27/desirability.html

I would not recommend watching the movie "Bug" after reading this post. :lmao: That's one :nut: movie.


Good idea or too creepy/crypto religious?

Romeo
11th Oct 2008, 02:43
Some joker a while back mentioned a time-travel aug which you used to go back in time and stop IW from happening. (We need it! Even as a secret level!:cool: )

The entire game takes place before Invisible War, so theoretically, the entire game would represent this "aug". lol

Tracer Tong
11th Oct 2008, 02:51
^^ It's something that Eidos Montreal should have invented.

Abram730
14th Oct 2008, 21:47
They integrated your flashlight into your eyes, why not your radio?

That could act in game to get mission updates and plot updates. A coded transmission from a faction.

perhaps you could even upgrade it to trace the location of a guard transmission and if you kill or KO that guard you can do a fake transmission.


also considering there is no nano goo canisters.. perhaps a store kiosk and or skill points upgrade things.
example.. an melee arm weapon would seem to be upgraded with skill after install. parts for a radio, buy at kiosk.

X(number of mods) + 2(light,raidio) upgradable.