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GoranAgar
11th Feb 2008, 17:44
I wish people would stop comparing First Person Shooter with Third Person View games.

Because you can't.

In a Third Person View game half of the game engine is busy making the lead character pretty. In a FPS it is not.

Apples and oranges.

Should I make this a sticky? :scratch:

Werner Von Croy
11th Feb 2008, 18:30
I wish people would stop comparing First Person Shooter with Third Person View games.

Because you can't.

In a Third Person View game half of the game engine is busy making the lead character pretty. In a FPS it is not.

Apples and oranges.

Should I make this a sticky? :scratch:

You have a good valid point there FPS isn't everyone's cup of tea though i'd rather see the character in all their pretty form :D

the_legend
11th Feb 2008, 18:33
You have a good valid point there FPS isn't everyone's cup of tea though i'd rather see the character in all their pretty form :D

oh i dont compare...but a ego-shooter mode in tomb raider would be interesting:D ....:lol:

sorry for forgetting the e...

rsdigi
11th Feb 2008, 18:40
So true Goran, the third person engine has to devote alot of power to the main character, while a fps can devote almost the the whole engine to the environment.

LisaB1962
11th Feb 2008, 20:45
No problem here. I hate FPSs. Last thing I want is to be ME in a video game.

I want to be someone smarter, stronger and better looking than me, and I want to be able to watch me be that person. :cool:

Xcom
11th Feb 2008, 21:18
What about games that have both views?

I've played a couple of such abominations. :D

William Croft
11th Feb 2008, 21:54
Too true. I can use this against my Brother who keeps saying Call Of Duty is Better than Lara. Don't compare it ****

Too true :thumbsup:

Rai
11th Feb 2008, 23:57
I don't know anything about First Person Shooters, all I know is I don't like em.

Is this where the little pixels come into it? I understand entirely, 'cus if a game character is using a load of pixels, then it makes sense that in a FPS where they're not needed for a character, then the graphics for the scenery etc. will be better. Have I understood things properly? :confused:

Pushtrak
12th Feb 2008, 00:10
I rarely (almost never) go for graphical comparisons in games. I worry more about gameplay. And if I have good fun with the gameplay in something, any comparisons to other games I enjoy are moot.

I enjoy games that have a first person and a third person perspective. Some games that are built allowing both often do one far better*.

(* I'm looking at you, Morrowind.)

pot
3rd Mar 2008, 10:58
What is the difference? can someone explain this to me please?

GoranAgar
3rd Mar 2008, 11:18
What is the difference? can someone explain this to me please?

So true Goran, the third person engine has to devote alot of power to the main character, while a fps can devote almost the whole engine to the environment.
This is exactly what I mean. :)

pot
3rd Mar 2008, 11:32
I just wondered if FPS was what the original TR games were, but I think probably not. FPS is Doom and games like that I guess.

Capkeez
3rd Mar 2008, 12:35
i think i'm the reason this thread was started lol

MercuryRapids
3rd Mar 2008, 12:42
FPS:

http://www.megatonik.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/callofduty4-multiplayer-1.jpg

Third Person Shooter/Adventure/Whatever:

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/834/834931/uncharted-drakes-fortune-20071113035914163_640w.jpg

FPS = You don't see your character.
TPS = You do

:)

ps

I like both types of game... ;)

Capkeez
3rd Mar 2008, 13:01
wow does that grass look horrible.

MercuryRapids
3rd Mar 2008, 13:03
wow does that grass look horrible.

Yeah, it does look a bit pants in that shot, doesn't it? :) Uncharted: Drake's Fortune is a great game, though. :)

William Croft
3rd Mar 2008, 16:07
wow does that grass look horrible.

Hhahahahaahahahah too true, too true :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

On topic, rsdigi Thats too true but people are to wound up in they're own belief.

pot
3rd Mar 2008, 17:06
Thanks MercuryRapids. I prefer TPS mhyself, never been a big fan of Doom and Quack really. I also prefer to play racing games in TP. I only ever played one racing game in FP and that was wipeout 2097.

GoranAgar
3rd Mar 2008, 17:37
I love both. TPS and FPS. There are excellent examples for both kinds of games. Crysis was one hell of a game. :D

What I do not like, and now I repeat myself, are people who do not get it in their uninformed head that a TPS can not have as pretty an enviroment as a FPS. People who say: "I want the next Tomb Raider to be as pretty as Crysis" do not know anything about computers and should shut up!

Tomb-Dude
3rd Mar 2008, 17:45
They shouldn't be compare because they are completly different.
Edit- Like Goran said it is impossible you can't compare them. One is third person where the graphics is focused around the person and a lot on the environment. But a 1st person it's more focused on the weapon you are holding and the environment.
Tomb Raider in my opioning shouldn't be compared to a FPS.

Edit, Edit:

@Goran - So true! And very well worded also ;)


I also like both games but i prefer 3rd person out of the two, don't know why i just have all my life!

GoranAgar
3rd Mar 2008, 17:47
They shouldn't be compare becausw they are completly different, it is impossible to actually compare a FPS to a 3rd person game?
The answer to that question is in my first post in this thread.

Fickji
3rd Mar 2008, 17:53
Your exactly right.

A FPS cannot be compared to a TPS.

I like both the Tomb Raider games and the Thief games for entirely different reasons.

Besides the Tomb Raider games (TPS) don't give me headaches as much as the Thief games (FPS - s as in stealth)

And your right about the graphics. They tried making the third Thief game a TPS and the graphic quality went down. It was still a beautiful game. Just not as beautiful as the FM's of Thief 2. (FM-fan mission)

RUGRLN
3rd Mar 2008, 17:57
About Uncharted, yup it's bad. And I dunno how ppl go on about how good the graphics are, bcoz they are absolutely rubbish and suck, and Halo 3 is wya better depsite the fact that it isn't focused on grpahics.

To Goran's point:

True, true, but:
They are the same in some ways, just that in FPS especially for PCs they make it this wya so they can reserve more processor resources to available for other important features rather than the main protagonist. In 3rd Person Shooters they are focused on games like TR where there's movement and interaction to be done. But FPS are really focussed on shooting and nothing else.

But then again, I've played games that can go from FPS to 3rdPS, it wasn't really good but for shooting it would turn to FPS.

I mean it all depends on what the game is about.

But warever....

pot
3rd Mar 2008, 18:13
So if half the game engine is taken up on the third person character, does that mean then that you are limiting half of the RAM or half of the processor, or one or 't nother?

I've played HALO 1 and that was pretty amazing graphics, also Half Life 2 was quite impressive, and both of them are FPS. So I can see your point.

I just played the demo for TRA on my MAC though and the graphics there were also pretty damn hot.

The water rippling effects were extremely impressive, as were the sunlight and shadowing effects on Lara and the wet look on her after she has just come out of the water.

MercuryRapids
3rd Mar 2008, 20:30
About Uncharted, yup it's bad. And I dunno how ppl go on about how good the graphics are, bcoz they are absolutely rubbish and suck, and Halo 3 is wya better depsite the fact that it isn't focused on grpahics.




I don't know how you can say Uncharted has bad graphics. They're very nice. Comparing it with Halo 3 is daft. I've always felt the graphics in the Halo games, while nice, are a little flat and sterile.

Uncharted:

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/0/7/6/4/ss_preview_UnchartedDrakesFortune___amazon_ruins_02.jpg.jpg

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/0/7/6/4/ss_preview_Uncharted_fort_leap_02.jpg.jpg

Halo 3:

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/6/4/8/0/5/ss_preview_Halo3_004.jpg.jpg

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/6/4/8/0/5/ss_preview_Halo3_003.jpg.jpg

And I'm not going to get into a PS3 Vs XBox 360 argument. They're both great machines. The XBox has the better selection of quality games right now, but the PS3 is the better package, IMO, with Blu-Ray, built-in wireless ethernet and the ability to back up to external devices.

RinoTheBouncer
3rd Mar 2008, 20:35
Look erryone,
i buy consoles to play TR n but TRs n spend lots of money just to see Lara , so dont ever think of makin Lara an FPS game
and never consider Lara's looks not to be so important
cuz whether you like it or not Lara is a Model and a human being , and she has Fans n action figures , she's more like a super actress makin all these adventures for us so her looks are more than important to us.

Verios
3rd Mar 2008, 21:25
I don't know how you can say Uncharted has bad graphics. They're very nice. Comparing it with Halo 3 is daft. I've always felt the graphics in the Halo games, while nice, are a little flat and sterile.

Uncharted:

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/0/7/6/4/ss_preview_UnchartedDrakesFortune___amazon_ruins_02.jpg.jpg

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/0/7/6/4/ss_preview_Uncharted_fort_leap_02.jpg.jpg

Halo 3:

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/6/4/8/0/5/ss_preview_Halo3_004.jpg.jpg

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/6/4/8/0/5/ss_preview_Halo3_003.jpg.jpg

And I'm not going to get into a PS3 Vs XBox 360 argument. They're both great machines. The XBox has the better selection of quality games right now, but the PS3 is the better package, IMO, with Blu-Ray, built-in wireless ethernet and the ability to back up to external devices.

I love these types of posts, the person always picks the best pictures of the thing they're trying to defend and the absolute worse they can find of the latter (well perhaps not the worse, but I noticed both of the screen shots you grabbed were multi player maps, which were generally barren compared to the campaign levels).

floydthebarber
3rd Mar 2008, 21:40
Oblivion has both views. And no one can argue that it doesn't look fantastic either way. I play it most of the time in the 3rd person, but when I use the bow I of course switch to the first person view. I believe that this is the way to go for all future games.

MercuryRapids
3rd Mar 2008, 21:59
I love these types of posts, the person always picks the best pictures of the thing they're trying to defend and the absolute worse they can find of the latter (well perhaps not the worse, but I noticed both of the screen shots you grabbed were multi player maps, which were generally barren compared to the campaign levels).

Actually, I tried to find the best pics for both games from the same website.

The Uncharted ones from here: http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=80764

The Halo ones from here: http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=64805

Again, I'm not defending either game. I think they both look great. Uncharted's tree canopy could be better. Halo 3 could look a little less sterile.

Other games that should get honourable mentions for graphics include Call of Duty 4, Assassin's Creed, Bioshock (all of which I loved) and Gears of War, Lost Planet, Motorstorm (all of which I didn't like).

I have a PS3 and an XBox 360 and think they're both great systems. As I said before, the Xbox has the better selection of good games. The PS3, though has the better specifications. At the moment, though, I'd say the Xbox 360 is the better of the two.

pot
3rd Mar 2008, 22:35
????

Rai
3rd Mar 2008, 22:50
Look erryone,
i buy consoles to play TR n but TRs n spend lots of money just to see Lara , so dont ever think of makin Lara an FPS game
and never consider Lara's looks not to be so important
cuz whether you like it or not Lara is a Model and a human being , and she has Fans n action figures , she's more like a super actress makin all these adventures for us so her looks are more than important to us.

Excuse me? What planet are you on? Or better, what you been taking, cus I want some! :lol: I know, I shouldn't be making fun of you. But Lara is a video game character. There are models who have been chosen to pose as her to promote the games etc, but is as far as it goes.

We all want the best graphics, but storyline and gameplay is soo much more important than that. I would love to see Lara as good as she can be with as many little pixels as they can spare, but, I want the best gaming experience too. I'd put that above graphics any day. I perfectly understand that TR graphics will not live up to those of a FPS game, because TR is a third person game.

Mind you those Drake pics look pretty awesome - look at all that lush greenery! But obviously consoles such as the PS2 can't have as good graphics, and I understand that.

Just remember: Lara is just a bunch of pixels meshed together (rather well), but that is all she is. She is great to look at and I'd hate it if TR became a FPS, so keep her as she is. But she is not human. Sorry to break it to you. *pats Rino on the back soothingly*

RUGRLN
4th Mar 2008, 04:40
I don't know how you can say Uncharted has bad graphics. They're very nice. Comparing it with Halo 3 is daft. I've always felt the graphics in the Halo games, while nice, are a little flat and sterile.

Uncharted:

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/0/7/6/4/ss_preview_UnchartedDrakesFortune___amazon_ruins_02.jpg.jpg

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/0/7/6/4/ss_preview_Uncharted_fort_leap_02.jpg.jpg

Halo 3:

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/6/4/8/0/5/ss_preview_Halo3_004.jpg.jpg

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/6/4/8/0/5/ss_preview_Halo3_003.jpg.jpg

And I'm not going to get into a PS3 Vs XBox 360 argument. They're both great machines. The XBox has the better selection of quality games right now, but the PS3 is the better package, IMO, with Blu-Ray, built-in wireless ethernet and the ability to back up to external devices.

Like to point out that, Multiplayer games are not good in grpahics so the processor cna focus on the gmaing which is important and not the rpetty graphics. You need to look at campaign, but doesn't matter.
Cuz, I've seen some vids epseically the first few ones thatbegin the sotry, and it was really bad, how they fire started, how the people die so unrelaistically, like a flash game. I's not that impressive, it's got nice colours and all, but Halo does take place at war,which ain't very pretty....

MercuryRapids
4th Mar 2008, 07:25
Like to point out that, Multiplayer games are not good in grpahics so the processor cna focus on the gmaing which is important and not the rpetty graphics. You need to look at campaign, but doesn't matter.
Cuz, I've seen some vids epseically the first few ones thatbegin the sotry, and it was really bad, how they fire started, how the people die so unrelaistically, like a flash game. I's not that impressive, it's got nice colours and all, but Halo does take place at war,which ain't very pretty....

I've played both games and, believe me, the graphics in both of them are excellent... :)

GoranAgar
4th Mar 2008, 08:02
Oblivion has both views. And no one can argue that it doesn't look fantastic either way. I play it most of the time in the 3rd person, but when I use the bow I of course switch to the first person view. I believe that this is the way to go for all future games.
That is true, Oblivion looked amazing, except for the display of your character in third person view. ;) Your character looked just like all the other NPCs.

But still, Oblivion was an outstanding game. :)

pot
4th Mar 2008, 11:52
That Uncharted looks amazing!

What are the controls like in it?

MercuryRapids
4th Mar 2008, 12:36
That Uncharted looks amazing!

What are the controls like in it?

Not bad. Your character, Nathan Drake, isn't Lara, that's for sure, but he can get about. :) Lara still rules the platformy, puzzle-solvey universe, but Uncharted is great fun to play. Hopefully, TR:U will be better.

pot
4th Mar 2008, 12:53
Are they like the new Tomb Raider controls or the classic (better) ones?

RinoTheBouncer
4th Mar 2008, 13:11
Excuse me? What planet are you on? Or better, what you been taking, cus I want some! :lol: I know, I shouldn't be making fun of you. But Lara is a video game character. There are models who have been chosen to pose as her to promote the games etc, but is as far as it goes.

We all want the best graphics, but storyline and gameplay is soo much more important than that. I would love to see Lara as good as she can be with as many little pixels as they can spare, but, I want the best gaming experience too. I'd put that above graphics any day. I perfectly understand that TR graphics will not live up to those of a FPS game, because TR is a third person game.

Mind you those Drake pics look pretty awesome - look at all that lush greenery! But obviously consoles such as the PS2 can't have as good graphics, and I understand that.

Just remember: Lara is just a bunch of pixels meshed together (rather well), but that is all she is. She is great to look at and I'd hate it if TR became a FPS, so keep her as she is. But she is not human. Sorry to break it to you. *pats Rino on the back soothingly*

Hhehehehehe i know , i know
but i just said that cuz we were all attracted by her as if she's real just like the movie SIMONE which is all about a director who made a character and all ppl that she's real n she acts in his movies and then when he tried to tell the truth they didnt believe him so they all considered her to be real...... it was rlly rlly rlly cool movie when i saw it i said LARA

MercuryRapids
4th Mar 2008, 14:24
Are they like the new Tomb Raider controls or the classic (better) ones?

The new ones. You use the sticks to move and the D-pad to select your weapons and reload. The buttons are used to jump, shoot, interact etc.

pixelShader
4th Mar 2008, 16:09
I wish...

lara should have less angry/evil expression than the one on the screenshots released up to now... (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=75194), personally I like the lara's face we've seen in the anniversary advertising pre-rendered images, but this time I'd like to see that realtime... :D (not with the same polycount of course)
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4341/laurarz8.png

naraku
4th Mar 2008, 21:37
Not bad. Your character, Nathan Drake, isn't Lara, that's for sure, but he can get about. :) Lara still rules the platformy, puzzle-solvey universe, but Uncharted is great fun to play. Hopefully, TR:U will be better.

I still say they'll use the same engine. Graphic wise can someone put screenshots of Uncharted and Underworld ones so we can see how close or different they are so far?

ccroft2003
10th Mar 2008, 12:13
[QUOTE=MercuryRapids;735446]
Uncharted:

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/0/7/6/4/ss_preview_UnchartedDrakesFortune___amazon_ruins_02.jpg.jpg

QUOTE]

This is what i want the jungles in TRU to look like. ATM the environments look too plain and open. I want lots of flolage growing over the ruins into the cracks. Uncharted has AMAZING graphics esp on a 40" HD tv! :)

Verios
11th Mar 2008, 08:21
[QUOTE=MercuryRapids;735446]
Uncharted:

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/0/7/6/4/ss_preview_UnchartedDrakesFortune___amazon_ruins_02.jpg.jpg

QUOTE]

This is what i want the jungles in TRU to look like. ATM the environments look too plain and open. I want lots of flolage growing over the ruins into the cracks. Uncharted has AMAZING graphics esp on a 40" HD tv! :)

Don't think the cutesy theme of that jungle (well perhaps not cutesy, but overly vibrant jungle) wouldn't fit the theme they're going for in Underworld (she's going to the mythical peruvian underworld remember, not visiting Jack Sparrow on pirate island *chuckles*). You also have to realize every screen shot they've given us has been during either a rain storm or had some sort of dense cloud cover preventing the sun coming through...there's nothing saying that the jungles may or may not be that overly vibrant at different times in the game.