PDA

View Full Version : Sarafan Divine Priesthood Human Class



Spectre370
12th Dec 2013, 08:25
I just finished the series, and I wanted to contribute a class idea to the game.

In Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance, I encountered specific female enemies who had magic power, apparently deadly to vampires. As far as I could tell, the Sarafan were the first to have this power, and Moebius seemed to have taught it to his mercenaries at some point. Judging by the fact I have only seen females use it, I'm not sure if males are not allowed, or if females were just the only offensive users of it while males were worshippers inside of the Sarafan stronghold. I do remember at the Avernus Cathedral, there were male priests, but I don't honestly think they had Sarafan roots for their magic, judging by the events there.
Edit: Sarafan Inquisitors from Defiance are male casters. Class could have gender diversity without breaking lore. Thank you for that bit of insight JanusDominus

Lore: I'm not writing this, as I don't have the exact information on the events and possibilities of this class creation, but I will write what I theorize could happen. A group of humans find the Sarafan tomb, and with it, study the ancient writings and whatnot in the place. Realizing that the leaders of the vampiric clans used to be sarafan themselves, they take pride in purifying their perverted priesthood and purging it from the world, so they may once again rest, this time, eternally. They learn of the magic once used by the priesthood to fight the vampires, and use what knowledge they can to learn it themselves.

Main weapon- Energy bolt
Able to be cast at will or charged up to increase the impact on a vampiric vessel, the priesthood would cast bolts of energy at vampires, naturally injuring their mental frequencies. The more concentrated the blast, the more it would mess with the mental frequencies of a vampire, harming the Turelim the most with their strong psychic prowess. Enough of this energy would cause a vampire to become unable to think clearly, possibly sending their mental energies to overpump their body and cause muscle failure or other issues. Generally, a vampire struck with such energy would suffer temporal vision issues, depending on their psychic prowess. While the Turelim would gain blurred vision from even the weakest blast, clans such as the Zephonim would simply have a slight hiccup in their vision. A fully charged blast, however, would be enough to cause a nerve shaking reaction from even the strongest clan, if it landed.

Powers- Sun shield and Valiant Persistence
Sun Shield: Members of the Divine Priesthood could not wear armor, as it would inhibit their focus and ability to channel their energy. As such, they learned to make their power their armor. Generating energy from the vampires' natural enemy, the Priesthood could surround themselves in a protective field of sun based energy. All melee attacks made against them would burn the flesh of a vampire, damaging them. Being close enough to the field itself could also damage the vampires, making a priest deadly in close quarters as well as ranged. Channeling the sun was no small feat though, and would only last temporarily. However, some priests are said to be able to take the energy they channel, and detonate it, creating an explosion that burns all nearby vampires, possibly disabling them.

Valiant Persistence: Vampires have an ability to not tire easily, something humans feel regularly. While a vampire could chase its prey for miles, a human would fall tiresome and weak after a short run. The Sarafan needed to be able to chase and run from their foes if needed, but did not have the means to do so until the Divine Priesthood had blessed them with Valiant Persistence. Stimulating the natural energy inside of the human body, a priest could turn any regular warrior into an unstoppable champion. They would shake off the strongest of blows, chase down the fastest of vampires, and even run through a vampire in one blow. Those were the days when the Sarafan stood proud and dominant in the world. While that magic is no longer available, the priests of now have begun to understand it again. Giving their allies increased resistence to crowd controlling effects and increased movement speed, a Priest who casts this near their allies can change an ambush for the better. Holding up the aura itself is no small feat, and will render them unable to attack for a time, but will not cancel any other channeled spells such as their sun shield.


That is what I have so far. Obviously, I am not the developer, some of these seem overpowered or make the class underpowered (such as holding that aura), but I feel the idea itself could make a mage class that would be fun and enjoyable. Throw in some creative criticism, some extra ideas, and this could easily become a class in game that fits in with the lore. My one main issue is that the Sarafan Tomb was right above Rahab's lair, but I really don't think Rahab knows about it in the first place, and there were not that many vampires there when visited in Soul Reaver, so I don't think Vampires in general really know about it. It seems like an easy place for Humans to hide, and learn of the order who once stopped the vampires.

JanusDominus
12th Dec 2013, 08:46
In Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance, I encountered specific female enemies who had magic power, apparently deadly to vampires. As far as I could tell, the Sarafan were the first to have this power, and Moebius seemed to have taught it to his mercenaries at some point. Judging by the fact I have only seen females use it, I'm not sure if males are not allowed, or if females were just the only offensive users of it while males were worshippers inside of the Sarafan stronghold. I do remember at the Avernus Cathedral, there were male priests, but I don't honestly think they had Sarafan roots for their magic, judging by the events there.There are actually male Sarafan wizards Kain has to fight.

Spectre370
12th Dec 2013, 09:12
There are actually male Sarafan wizards Kain has to fight.

Where exactly? I do not remember them. The only time I remember facing Sarafan priestesses was Soul Reaver 2. I don't remember any in Blood Omen 2, or any that had their roots brought from the Sarafan. I remember wizards in Blood Omen 1 and Defiance that were male, but those were connected to dark magic instead of protective magic like the Sarafan had. Though that is a great idea for an offensive magic class. Cultists of Hash'ak'gik wouldn't be too hard to explain if you just say they hid in the catacombs

JanusDominus
12th Dec 2013, 09:21
Where exactly? I do not remember them. The only time I remember facing Sarafan priestesses was Soul Reaver 2. I don't remember any in Blood Omen 2, or any that had their roots brought from the Sarafan. I remember wizards in Blood Omen 1 and Defiance that were male, but those were connected to dark magic instead of protective magic like the Sarafan had. Though that is a great idea for an offensive magic class. Cultists of Hash'ak'gik wouldn't be too hard to explain if you just say they hid in the catacombsThe third and fifth chapters of Defiance had them.

Spectre370
12th Dec 2013, 09:23
The third and fifth chapters of Defiance had them.

Sarafan Inquisitors, forgot about them, found them on the Wiki.

Welp, that means they could be male or female. I'll throw that into the main post.

lordbane2110
12th Dec 2013, 09:50
This sounds like a cool idea for a new class, and it's ranged so it still fits the melee vs ranged spin on things, I approve

Sluagh
12th Dec 2013, 10:44
Hm...I like it in theory, or least in terms of the spells and things but lore wise...not so sure. The Sarafan have been rather done. Maybe a group of humans could find the tombs and certain artefacts that then influences them. Moebius, whilst running his mercenary army in the BO era, seeks to emulate their crusade but whatever reason does not seek to restart it, and you have to ask yourself why. Because we're talking about Moebius, a prime manipulator, it's unlikely he would have discontinued it for any ethical reasons, although I'm sure on the Wiki somewhere it says that it was discontinued due to that, as well as the failure of Malek. However the Sarafan, with their fanatical, paranoid form of virtue are almost as bad a curse as the vampires are for humanity, so whether the future humans would leap into that unless totally desperate, is questionable.

In terms of finding the mausoleum, I think that idea is problematic:

- Firstly, Kain obviously has to find it in order to raise his lieutenants. He's unlikely to have allowed it to be easily accessible afterwards.
- Raziel finding it the SR era I always assumed was due to Nosgoth's shifting landscape, damaged by earthquakes and tremors after the Pillars' collapse.
- If it was available to find, it begs the question of why the tomb wasn't appropriated by humanity a little earlier - there's a big gap between the Sarafan era and the era of SR 1. You could put it down to petty conflicts, and feudal wars, but I think this is a bit far fetched.

Spectre370
12th Dec 2013, 19:58
Hm...I like it in theory, or least in terms of the spells and things but lore wise...not so sure. The Sarafan have been rather done. Maybe a group of humans could find the tombs and certain artefacts that then influences them. Moebius, whilst running his mercenary army in the BO era, seeks to emulate their crusade but whatever reason does not seek to restart it, and you have to ask yourself why. Because we're talking about Moebius, a prime manipulator, it's unlikely he would have discontinued it for any ethical reasons, although I'm sure on the Wiki somewhere it says that it was discontinued due to that, as well as the failure of Malek. However the Sarafan, with their fanatical, paranoid form of virtue are almost as bad a curse as the vampires are for humanity, so whether the future humans would leap into that unless totally desperate, is questionable.

In terms of finding the mausoleum, I think that idea is problematic:

- Firstly, Kain obviously has to find it in order to raise his lieutenants. He's unlikely to have allowed it to be easily accessible afterwards.
- Raziel finding it the SR era I always assumed was due to Nosgoth's shifting landscape, damaged by earthquakes and tremors after the Pillars' collapse.
- If it was available to find, it begs the question of why the tomb wasn't appropriated by humanity a little earlier - there's a big gap between the Sarafan era and the era of SR 1. You could put it down to petty conflicts, and feudal wars, but I think this is a bit far fetched.

I have mostly thought about all of these, but with the lore provided by Psyonix thus far, your argument can be mostly countered based on the state of things within the world at the time.

"The ancient tomb of the Sarafan, once impenetrably sealed... Now, ravaged by Nosgoth’s upheavals, its mysteries lay exposed."
Raziel says this as soon as you find the Tomb in SR1. Now my first thought was that means the humans could not get inside, but I forgot about the fact that Kain had already been inside. The tomb, desecrated by Kain, seems mostly left in ruins, and as the world decayed, so did the tomb. We are seeing events that take place in Nosgoth about 400 or so years after Raziel's sentence, so I would assume that the decay has been good enough to allow entrance to humans. This also explains why humans never took it over before, because it was sealed, and maybe forgotten.

The next part, if you read the story posts on the blog, many humans still seem to regard the Sarafan as great, and judging by the fact that the time of Vampiric tyranny, I don't think that negative information of the Sarafan would become primarily told as it is passed down from person to person. Information is a luxury, as the Vampires have been destroying libraries and people who hold it. Moebius could time stream, he was able to know the reality of the Sarafan, and maybe that is what stopped him from bringing them back, because he knew the truth. However, humanity would not be able to know the truth, and upon finding the tomb, would treat it as sacred and learn its power.

The Tomb itself is left on the outreaches of Nosgoth, near the Lake of Tears. Humans were generally driven to the borders of Nosgoth to survive, what was left of them. I'm sure, in attempting to hide, they would have found the location. It would be a perfect site for them to hide, because it is near a large body of water, something the Vampires care nothing for, and it is hidden as an ancient structure in the mountains. The only ones who probably would have tried and found it are the Razielim, which they have other problems to attend to.

So in this destroyed and knowledge barren world of Nosgoth, it could fit in.

Sluagh
13th Dec 2013, 12:21
I have mostly thought about all of these, but with the lore provided by Psyonix thus far, your argument can be mostly countered based on the state of things within the world at the time.

"The ancient tomb of the Sarafan, once impenetrably sealed... Now, ravaged by Nosgoth’s upheavals, its mysteries lay exposed."
Raziel says this as soon as you find the Tomb in SR1. Now my first thought was that means the humans could not get inside, but I forgot about the fact that Kain had already been inside. The tomb, desecrated by Kain, seems mostly left in ruins, and as the world decayed, so did the tomb. We are seeing events that take place in Nosgoth about 400 or so years after Raziel's sentence, so I would assume that the decay has been good enough to allow entrance to humans. This also explains why humans never took it over before, because it was sealed, and maybe forgotten.

The next part, if you read the story posts on the blog, many humans still seem to regard the Sarafan as great, and judging by the fact that the time of Vampiric tyranny, I don't think that negative information of the Sarafan would become primarily told as it is passed down from person to person. Information is a luxury, as the Vampires have been destroying libraries and people who hold it. Moebius could time stream, he was able to know the reality of the Sarafan, and maybe that is what stopped him from bringing them back, because he knew the truth. However, humanity would not be able to know the truth, and upon finding the tomb, would treat it as sacred and learn its power.

The Tomb itself is left on the outreaches of Nosgoth, near the Lake of Tears. Humans were generally driven to the borders of Nosgoth to survive, what was left of them. I'm sure, in attempting to hide, they would have found the location. It would be a perfect site for them to hide, because it is near a large body of water, something the Vampires care nothing for, and it is hidden as an ancient structure in the mountains. The only ones who probably would have tried and found it are the Razielim, which they have other problems to attend to.

So in this destroyed and knowledge barren world of Nosgoth, it could fit in.

I think you've answered with some very good points, and yes I s'pose the world's shifting itself could mean that the tomb is revealed. However, I still think that it doesn't really fit narratively for the humans to find it, particularly as the plot of Soul Reaver goes beyond simply revenge, to one where Kain is playing on the fact that Raziel will uncover lots of Nosgoth's secrets.

Although, as you say, it's territorial positioning in some ways is apt. However, if the humans were truly to adopt the Sarafan mantle, wouldn't there be more evidence of it in the plot of Soul Reaver? The humans in the citadel there have clearly forgotten, whether consciously or not, the influence of the Sarafan. There aren't even any references to Moebius, just this strange goddess/queen figure.
So for several reasons I think the tomb is best left undisturbed:

- There's not enough influence of it in SR
- There's no influence of Moebius, who was essentially the puppet master behind the the Sarafan. Not only that the Sarafan are intrinsically linked to the Circle who in Nosgoth era only live on in warped memory (although I'll admit this does lead to the potential for some interesting interpretation by the humans).
- There's a small chance Kain would have made it as inaccessible as possible, despite the World crumbling. He is also an individual with enough foresight and knowledge to keep the tomb sealed for as long as possible, as well as knowing that Raziel would be destined to find it, even if he's not exactly clear on how.
- The Vampire Hunters, as you have pointed out, venerate the Sarafan, but on a mythical basis. It's possible they might go delving into the past to recreate the old order. But it's also worth remembering that these are desperate times. If anything the Sarafan appeared to be a theocratic order, built on well fed, well trained individuals, bolstered by magical support (or at least prior to Vorador's attack). The humans of Nosgoth's time-frame however are long suppressed by Kain's empire, scavengers of a kind (or at least in the Watcher lore sections) secretive, and frailly united.

However, if you think about BO2, the Sarafan is rebuilt by the Hylden Lord (of course due to the paradox not pivotal to this game), so it suggests enough information is out there to rebuild the Sarafan (in a slightly different style) without access to old Sarcophagi and paraphernalia. I was just wondering - did he learn about the Sarafan and their influence through the Hylden possession of Janos Audron? Apologies for digression - I think then that it's ultimately possible for the Sarafan to make a return in some guise, but it would be more interesting to see the humans create new orders and ways of dealing with the vampires. They already have the brutal Ironguard, who seem zealous enough in their crusade as it is.

Spectre370
14th Dec 2013, 00:23
I think you've answered with some very good points, and yes I s'pose the world's shifting itself could mean that the tomb is revealed. However, I still think that it doesn't really fit narratively for the humans to find it, particularly as the plot of Soul Reaver goes beyond simply revenge, to one where Kain is playing on the fact that Raziel will uncover lots of Nosgoth's secrets.

Although, as you say, it's territorial positioning in some ways is apt. However, if the humans were truly to adopt the Sarafan mantle, wouldn't there be more evidence of it in the plot of Soul Reaver? The humans in the citadel there have clearly forgotten, whether consciously or not, the influence of the Sarafan. There aren't even any references to Moebius, just this strange goddess/queen figure.
So for several reasons I think the tomb is best left undisturbed:

- There's not enough influence of it in SR
- There's no influence of Moebius, who was essentially the puppet master behind the the Sarafan. Not only that the Sarafan are intrinsically linked to the Circle who in Nosgoth era only live on in warped memory (although I'll admit this does lead to the potential for some interesting interpretation by the humans).
- There's a small chance Kain would have made it as inaccessible as possible, despite the World crumbling. He is also an individual with enough foresight and knowledge to keep the tomb sealed for as long as possible, as well as knowing that Raziel would be destined to find it, even if he's not exactly clear on how.
- The Vampire Hunters, as you have pointed out, venerate the Sarafan, but on a mythical basis. It's possible they might go delving into the past to recreate the old order. But it's also worth remembering that these are desperate times. If anything the Sarafan appeared to be a theocratic order, built on well fed, well trained individuals, bolstered by magical support (or at least prior to Vorador's attack). The humans of Nosgoth's time-frame however are long suppressed by Kain's empire, scavengers of a kind (or at least in the Watcher lore sections) secretive, and frailly united.

However, if you think about BO2, the Sarafan is rebuilt by the Hylden Lord (of course due to the paradox not pivotal to this game), so it suggests enough information is out there to rebuild the Sarafan (in a slightly different style) without access to old Sarcophagi and paraphernalia. I was just wondering - did he learn about the Sarafan and their influence through the Hylden possession of Janos Audron? Apologies for digression - I think then that it's ultimately possible for the Sarafan to make a return in some guise, but it would be more interesting to see the humans create new orders and ways of dealing with the vampires. They already have the brutal Ironguard, who seem zealous enough in their crusade as it is.

Valid points. It would have to be up to the developers at this point really. If anything, as soon as a Sarafan order would come to any form of power, out of any targets the Vampires may have, I think they would hunt them first and do what is needed to eradicate them. The Sarafan, while powerless in Nosgoth's era compared to the time of Janos Audron, are still a danger the Vampires would not want to ever deal with again. Making mistakes twice is not something they would want.

And while I do agree that there should be new orders, I do like the idea of orders that tie back to the old times. The Red Sisters link back to Anacrothe, in honor of his alchemical prowess. If anything, they could be a different named order who may have found relics of the Sarafan's magic, and have harnessed it. I just figured the tomb to be the most obvious and relevant spot for them to find it.

It could work either way if the devs will it.

diuqSehT
21st Dec 2013, 00:28
Yeah I think the BO2 hylden glyphwrights, the sarafan wizards from other eras, and the glyph spells from SR1 are all using the same anti-vampire brand of energy, passed down through history because of its priceless value as a weapon against the undead menace.

Those hunter witches from Defiance had a nice mix of powers! Invisibility (brief), Teleport out of harm's way (limited use, because vampires have to be given some chance of catching you), Fire Bolts x 3 which always tended to catch me in the face, Sun Shield as their personal force fields are being called in this thread, Boost Allies (Strength or Defense), .......and probably something else I'm forgetting too. In the new game, I suppose teleporting away from melee would be a prized ability.

Vdeorsumproles
22nd Dec 2013, 17:59
Yeah I think the BO2 hylden glyphwrights, the sarafan wizards from other eras, and the glyph spells from SR1 are all using the same anti-vampire brand of energy, passed down through history because of its priceless value as a weapon against the undead menace.

Those hunter witches from Defiance had a nice mix of powers! Invisibility (brief), Teleport out of harm's way (limited use, because vampires have to be given some chance of catching you), Fire Bolts x 3 which always tended to catch me in the face, Sun Shield as their personal force fields are being called in this thread, Boost Allies (Strength or Defense), .......and probably something else I'm forgetting too. In the new game, I suppose teleporting away from melee would be a prized ability.

Great idea! I want to see a support unit, like the priest in the Defiance, that improve the allies with magic and other types of bonus. This would make the game more strategic, and helping the team play, in my opinion

Vallass
24th Dec 2013, 16:44
Yeah I think the BO2 hylden glyphwrights, the sarafan wizards from other eras, and the glyph spells from SR1 are all using the same anti-vampire brand of energy, passed down through history because of its priceless value as a weapon against the undead menace.

Those hunter witches from Defiance had a nice mix of powers! Invisibility (brief), Teleport out of harm's way (limited use, because vampires have to be given some chance of catching you), Fire Bolts x 3 which always tended to catch me in the face, Sun Shield as their personal force fields are being called in this thread, Boost Allies (Strength or Defense), .......and probably something else I'm forgetting too. In the new game, I suppose teleporting away from melee would be a prized ability.

I would say as long as they only get so many fire bolts in such amount of time, this would be a great support character. Although maybe they shouldn't get any more attack abilities, since they're support and all. The teleport could just be a blink, after a few uses they get a cooldown for a minute at least. Or they could do it as a hybrid class.

They could give them a few different attacks, but in order to use their support abilities they're not allowed to use assault abilities. If they use them while their boost is on it puts it on a longer CD. That way it works out better for their survivability. I suppose deciding which abilities are defensive and which are offensive might be a problem, since teleport would be an either/or ability.

Vampmaster
24th Dec 2013, 17:10
Good ideas for the abilities, but isn't everyone forgetting that the sarafan were wiped out (twice depending on the timeline)? That's the whole reason Moebius needed to have William killed, to rally his mercenary army against the vampires instead. IMO, it would seem a bit cliché to bring them back a third time. It's already been said that the Ironguard are the decentants of the sarafan, anyway.

RainaAudron
24th Dec 2013, 18:05
Agreed with Vampmaster, Sarafan order is remembered, but let´s give them a break.

diuqSehT
24th Dec 2013, 21:29
hunter witches were doing their thing in the time of blood omen and the avernus fire, appearing in Raziel's Defiance levels. (they're cleared to appear in non-sarafan eras).

Oh, I see I'm requesting something different than the topic header does. These wouldn't be getting their powers from the same sarafan religion, it'd be a wiccan cult tradition thang that maybe borrowed some of their tricks from sarafan history but they're now divorced from Mobious' influence as he's long gone.