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View Full Version : What we liked in DX1 and NOT in DX2



Tracer Tong
13th Jan 2008, 06:11
Developers and fellow users,

Frankly, I've been thinking about this topic a LOT (since the trailer came out), re-playing the whole DX1 (keeping Paul Denton alive for the first time in my life, it's a much different gameplay experience than him dead and me wanting revenge!) and what I remember from DX2 (NGResonance, mosques, and the ability to choose...between a jet and a heli.. :scratch: )

I decided to compile a list of things that made DX1 so great and replayable, which DX2 ruined:

Keypads! (How could they do such a thing?) (I guessed Hong-Kong's police station)
The awesome Tabbed Menu
The HUD (not elliptic)
Area Damage, aka "Shoot'em in the head", or "JC 'Gimp' Denton"
The great Skill Point System
The old Switch Ammo/Weapon Upgrade Systems
(NOT SURE) The old Inventory System, but just a bit bigger (maybe using a passive augmentation?)
The conversations you DON'T take part in (and the never-ending philosophical debate about augmentations, which I saw that exists in the trailer)
The idea that you know you have the ability to ignore things, like long datacubes, and on another game-run reading them (or listening to people)
The apparent option to CHOOSE. (even though in DX1 all options tend to converge into the same storyline) This thing could be fixed in a Next-Gen game such as DX3.
The immersive music, aka Alex Brandon's Hong Kong (battle, death, and ambient music)
Huge, strollable city maps (can be made even bigger in DX3)
Extra Long Spicy Dialogs :D
The flying bot augmentation and the vision augmentation, new augmentations and more of them.
The great, open cities of the world (not as caved as in DX2)
The almighty 'legend' menu ;) (Please add it!)


One and only one thing that should be kept from DX2 is the ability to usurp a robot using an augmentation.

One more thing I'd like to see is maybe the ability to roam free along the world (in the cities you can visit), you might implement it as a heli asking YOU where YOU want to go, or if you are in hiding use limited boats/ferries which could only take you to some places)


Thank you for listening, you may post your thoughts right here.

P.S. First post! :p

Just found the 'DX3 - What to toss/keep' thread. No matter, this one has nice reasons and emphasizes some of the things which exist in the other post

B0b_P@ge
13th Jan 2008, 14:51
Excellent post!!

gamer0004
13th Jan 2008, 16:42
They know what "we" liked... Don't you read the interviews?

Tracer Tong
13th Jan 2008, 17:53
I read the interviews, I saw that they have a whole team that know DX1 by heart(while not mentioning that they know DX2 :P) and I think some of the reasons (keypads yay) I posted were enlightening.

At first I wanted to say 'I' instead of 'We' but the title looked less attractive.

Innomnemon
14th Jan 2008, 03:06
Deus Ex 1 was so fantastic because it was full of unexpected things. When it came out, it was advertised blandly and lumped together with other FPS games. I could not find anything special about it. When I bought it, I had never even thought of some of the ideas in it. Everything was just so ORIGINAL. Right from the opening menu, I knew I was gonna be addicted.

Choice - Yes, semi-new at the time; there are plenty of great ways to incorporate choice, although I must say DX1 utilized all of them. Right from the first scenario: I would kill everyone, and the characters would actually react differently from when I tranquilized or stunned everyone. I could even KILL main characters. Everything had reason and consequence.

Plot - For the first time, I actually stopped to listen to long speeches, I CHOSE to learn everything I could about the plot. My own dad would stop what he was doing, lean in, and say, "He's right, you know." Conspiracies, tying a game plot into a realistic future, a real history, every detail having meaning.

World - Huge, completely interactive, maybe a little dark and bland at times, but no other game had made maps so big at the time. I learned patience, abstract puzzle-solving in a 3d world, and creativity. Hopefully, Deus Ex 3 will have scenarios that are so open-ended that the player has to be even more innovative than the game developer.

I swear, there must have been a family of geniuses with OCD to come up with such staggering detail. But my CD broke, and now I have to wait for the new one :(

These are just the things I can remember from when I played it. I played Deus Ex 2 and hated it, and then didn't play any Deus Ex for years. So I'm excited.

Sorry for cramming all my opinions into a post in someone else's thread in a forum where everyone else is doing the same thing. >.<

SomaMech
14th Jan 2008, 06:44
One last thing that I want to see is a little bit of DAYLIGHT. ;)

I agree with everything you said except this! How can they maintain a gritty post-collapse cyber-punk atmosphere during the daytime?!

gamer0004
14th Jan 2008, 07:29
I don't really like the idea to go anywhere you want in the game. Dx'isn't like TES, I don't want to have no idea where I have to go.
What I would like is the possibility of freeroaming once you've finished the game, so you can see how your actions have affected the world.
I really missed that in DX.

djinni33
14th Jan 2008, 14:14
I agree with everything you said except this! How can they maintain a gritty post-collapse cyber-punk atmosphere during the daytime?!

Yep - wouldn't be Deus Ex anymore with daylight. Add rain and thunder/lightning instead.

But keep the elevator music from DX 2.

Tracer Tong
14th Jan 2008, 15:58
I agree with everything you said except this! How can they maintain a gritty post-collapse cyber-punk atmosphere during the daytime?!

You are absolutely correct!!! I have contradicted myself by saying that. (Must be because I thought that my post was too empty and needed more fresh ideas, I did not mean it)

Fixing...Done!


I don't really like the idea to go anywhere you want in the game. Dx'isn't like TES, I don't want to have no idea where I have to go.
Come to think of it, yeah, it's too hard to implement and too hard for the user to play. All I can think of is that in DX1, there was some sort of linearity with the traveling. (Basically I want to choose whether I go to NYC to save Paul or go straight to HK to only help my (selfish) self)


One more innovative thing I got all hyped up about was the window system they made. Back then, no game had a real UI and DX changed it. I remember choosing different colors to the interface, giving me completely different game experiences. DX2 didn't have it, a shame IMHO. (it was Win98 time back then)
Anyway, I'd be very happy to see it back in DX3.

Spyhopping
14th Jan 2008, 18:07
Looking back, I think one of the important things to keep about the game atmosphere was contrasting envronments.
DX1 was a bit more subtle with this but DX2 still seemed to pull it off. I remember how much more rough and forboding the streets of new york and battery park seemed when I thought back to the somewhat sterile environments of UNATCO HQ. Another of a large number of examples in DX1 were where Area 51 looked like a warzone on ground level, but underground it was all intact.
The obvious way they executed this in DX2 was arguably less effective- Seattle and Cairo had clearly divided class areas- slums existed phisically below the elite areas.
Although it seemed less effective to me, I think it was one of the things that helped it move toward giving the sequel a "deus ex feel".

Slack
16th Jan 2008, 22:08
The loading time in DX2 are horrible... the game stops every time to... load.
It end with all the ilusion of reality.

B0b_P@ge
17th Jan 2008, 02:19
I agree with everything you said except this! How can they maintain a gritty post-collapse cyber-punk atmosphere during the daytime?!

I agree 100% ... absolutely NO day missions... but still an excellent post. :D

Rosenrot
17th Jan 2008, 11:05
I think day missions should be added, only to contrast the cyber-punk feel, like instead of missions it should be semi free roaming, where time goes by, night and day. Night being very dangerous, with a lot of 'punks' and crime around, and day being a place for normal activity. It'd give the game more of a dynamic feeling and the npc's would look like they live in a real world, with each of them doing their morning activities, sleeping at night etc. :o Just a suggestion.. :P

jordan_a
17th Jan 2008, 11:10
I think day missions should be added, only to contrast the cyber-punk feelI don't agree. I'd love to have some dusk settings though. We've got all the light we need in interiors. :D

Slack
17th Jan 2008, 11:56
DX2 Open air missions are ridiculous... YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE LOCKED IN A BOX, it's very different from DX1, there you feel free

gamer0004
17th Jan 2008, 15:21
I hope that there is no free-roaming (except after you've finished the game to see how your actions have worked out) and that the time doesn't really change. A little bit of daylight would be okay, but why would an agent sneak into a heavily guarded complex when it's still light? Doesn't make sense, as he would be noticed way more easily.

dude guy
24th Jan 2008, 23:13
The loading time in DX2 are horrible... the game stops every time to... load.
It end with all the ilusion of reality.


thaT REALLY! STINKS ITS soooooo anoying and i always try to avoid it but you have to do it if you wanto have more fun

Inane Mythos
25th Jan 2008, 01:25
thaT REALLY! STINKS ITS soooooo anoying and i always try to avoid it but you have to do it if you wanto have more fun
How the feck do you try to avoid the load zones? :scratch:

Tracer Tong
25th Jan 2008, 09:56
How the feck do you try to avoid the load zones? :scratch:

I remember doing that too. It's not actually avoiding loading times but rather not interpolating from map to map (to the extent of making a tasklist for each map so I can do all of the tasks in the least amount of interpolations (unrealengine-talk for switching levels))

They should've cached the last map you've been on so you don't have to wait so much when going back somewhere.

One more thing, the UnrealEngine (unreal warfare engine at least) isn't built for level transitioning of that frequency (see loading times of ut2k4), unless it is modified somehow to work better with that, something that DX2 devs didn't think of.... Too bad.

Xcom
25th Jan 2008, 10:59
unless it is modified somehow to work better with that, something that DX2 devs didn't think of.... Too bad.

They did think of that, and they tried to modify the engine, but sadly, failed.

Tracer Tong
25th Jan 2008, 13:32
They did think of that, and they tried to modify the engine, but sadly, failed.

Good to know, but still sad.

The effect of the loading time, especially with a frequency like DX2's, has a psychological effect on the players. This could be one of the main reasons why DX:IW was a 'bad' game in the philosophically-challenged FPS players' opinions.
If it weren't for the loading times, DX:IW might've been tolerable.

smeerkat
26th Jan 2008, 06:20
Excellent thread. Bring back the ol' magic of DX1.

Remington
23rd Sep 2011, 17:41
Huge bump of a post from '08 here just to say THANKS.

Most of the points here are covered (and the legend menu is done by the Burger mod), and with the exception of boss fights, this game is 100% Deus Ex material.

Eidos Montreal, the money put into this game was worth every penny. Acknowledged well by critics too, this is a major stepping stone for the studio.

But, from a personal view: Thank you for listening.