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DeepSeaDiver
31st Dec 2007, 14:09
Hey, I just stumbled upon this site and trailer and I have to say I was excited to see Deus Ex is not dead. I've been a fan since the original game first came out which I'm sure a lot of people claim as well.

Also like most, while I didn't hate the game, it's sequel didn't live up to the same expectations I felt whenever I played the first. What I didn't like the most about IW was it's setting. I loved the setting of Deus Ex since it was the people that evolved, not the enviroment. The buildings and setting looked like it could of been today just after a civil war while the people acted as if they were from the future and dropped into that setting. It gave focus on the NPC's more than the graphics or the surroundings and is what gives it so much replay value to me.

On the other hand IW tried to throw the "future" into your face a bit too much to the point of losing its realism.

This lead me to wish for a prequel above all else.

I know what I post may or may not be taken but I'd like to post what I'd like to see in the next game. The way I'm writing it is assuming the game takes place before DX1 but some ideas could be used anywhere.

-Revamped health system from DX1.
I liked how I could lose control of my legs and not die. It'd be nice to see a bit more detail thrown into the area of health. In a time where games like Halo have reinvented health to be unseen and recharging, I'd like to see DX3 make it so health is a primary concern and effects how you play more. I don't mean make it harder to play, but rather having my right arm damaged and I have to shoot with the left, decreasing my aim if I was righthanded for example.

-A more modern setting but just enough in the future to include new stuff.
I was thinking along the lines of weapons, items, etc... A mix of weapons found today and weapons of tomorrow for example. ie... Think of finding the metal sword from DX in Hong Kong, then using the Dragon's Tooth Sword in the same game. You get that feel of old and new which shows you how you are in a time of change.

-Bring back the reading.
What I loved about the first DX was all the newspapers, books, letters, computer emails, notes, etc... that added depth, hints, history and some comedy to the game. I felt in DX2 it was almost nonexistant. If this game is a prequel this should be REQUIRED not as a threat but since there is so much unexplored backstory that could best be explained in this fashion.

-The little things
Typing into a keypad on my own for example. Its little things like this that make you feel like you're doing it, not just experiencing it happen. I know it may suck on a console game and it could always be an option but you can make it work on a console fairly easily. Use the D-pad to cycle around on a keypad and select numbers or characters. You can even add a keyboard so we can put the logins and passwords when we access a computer. DX1 gave you the option to try and GUESS the codes and passwords. You most likely won't get it right but again, the option is there and makes it feel more real.

-No Universal Ammo
A lot of people have said this. What I hated about it was no matter what I shot or did I lost the chance to shoot something else. It felt constricting. Not to mention where did all the other weapons in the world go? If it was really just a little jump to the future where did the ungodly number of conventional ammo weapons go? Can you honestly say that they all were taken/destroyed? Even a few should of managed to survive. In anycase if its a prequel this shouldn't be a problem.

That's pretty much the little gameplay things I'd like to see. I've always had my own story ideas as I'm sure a lot of us had but I'm assuming that if you've gone this far you already have something fleshed out. Anyway, if you're reading this line I'm hoping you read what was above so thanks for your time.

gamer0004
31st Dec 2007, 15:15
-The little things
Typing into a keypad on my own for example. Its little things like this that make you feel like you're doing it, not just experiencing it happen. I know it may suck on a console game and it could always be an option but you can make it work on a console fairly easily. Use the D-pad to cycle around on a keypad and select numbers or characters. You can even add a keyboard so we can put the logins and passwords when we access a computer. DX1 gave you the option to try and GUESS the codes and passwords. You most likely won't get it right but again, the option is there and makes it feel more real.


Actually, I have guessed right quite a few codes. Smugler's code, a code at the Silo (it was 12 I believe, the one on the upper floor of the small building outside the wooden wall) and many people have guessed the code to the police station in Hong Kong (it was 911 I believe).
Besides that, typing in the key code takes time. Sometimes you had to be really fast as to not to be seen.

DeepSeaDiver
31st Dec 2007, 17:26
Actually, I have guessed right quite a few codes. Smugler's code, a code at the Silo (it was 12 I believe, the one on the upper floor of the small building outside the wooden wall) and many people have guessed the code to the police station in Hong Kong (it was 911 I believe).
Besides that, typing in the key code takes time. Sometimes you had to be really fast as to not to be seen.

I didn't say impossible, just on any given time your chances were slim. I actually guessed the silo one you mentioned. It was in that house/shack with the three MJ12 guards downstairs, on the second floor on a column.

And you are right about timing. In some cases speed is required and you may not be fast enough with a game pad over a keyboard. I actually prefer a keyboard and mouse with DX but for this new game I doubt I'll have a PC able to play it. And regardless, I still would rather see it done than not at all. You could always have it do it on its own like in DX:IW if you know the code, and if you didn't, you could have the option to guess it.


In addition to what I listed before I forgot the following:

-Skills
I missed the RPG like skill system and would like to see it redone if possible. One suggestion I'd have is have one similar to DX. I think that having your skills with number values on it would be a bad thing though. I'd prefer the generalized "TRAINED" or "MASTER" labels since its not too specific. Saying "I have a 32 skill in pistol" sounds unrealistic to me whereas saying "I'm trained in Pistols" or "I'm a specialist in HAZMAT" sounds more grounded in realism. I'm only saying all this since people seem to be suggesting the opposite.

-More little things:
-Weapon Attachments can be added and removed freely (silencers, scopes, laser sights, etc...) You could also keep a sniper rifle's scope to be used as a makeshift binoculars so you don't need both.
-Don't make Alcohol mess you up so damn quick... it can take more time and drinks to mess you up, for slightly longer times and maybe a hangover?
-I liked the length of DX1 and would hate to see the game significantly shortened just because it was decided to have a male OR female character. It also seems to make the design more complicated. I'd rather see only one gender choice and have a closer to flawless game than two and have the game suffer for it. I'm not saying it has to be male by the way... its more from the standpoint of game quality AND quantity.
-No dancing jukeboxes please.

-Vehicles
This may sound weird but hear me out. NO vehicles. I know its never been a concern and please don't make it one. Vehicles in FPS seem to be more of a gimmick than anything else. Sure its fun in Halo but this is a different kind of game. Just update car security in the "future" if you need an excuse but please don't add them to become something gimmicky. If you find a way to make it work then great, but please only add it if it works.

-Personality
I know JC never had much of a personality and it actually worked well. He had the sense of the not so silent but still not so forward badass. Alex seemed more like the "I wanna be a goodguy" personality. You could do things that made him bad but he still came off as "good". I'd say make the playable character someone who you don't know what he's thinking cause you're the one thinking.


Anyway, I'd like to add more as I think of them. And criticism is always welcome. I may of thought I had a great idea and overlooked something myself.

imported_van_HellSing
31st Dec 2007, 17:31
I'd say make the playable character someone who you don't know what he's thinking cause you're the one thinking.

Now that came out awkward ;). Though I know what you mean. An inscrutable character works better for this kind of game where you're supposed to determine the psyche of your character yourself.

gamer0004
31st Dec 2007, 18:20
@Deepseadiver: don't get me wrong, I really like the typing in of codes. Because it takes time it's more of a challenge and it is moe realistic.

imported_van_HellSing
31st Dec 2007, 18:40
If we are lucky enough to have code-typing in the pc version of DX3, I could see one improvement: randomisation of codes. Now, some codes could still be cultural references or have hidden meanings etc, but the majority should be random, to prevent cheating upon replaying the game.

Harakiribert
31st Dec 2007, 18:48
If we are lucky enough to have code-typing in the pc version of DX3, I could see one improvement: randomisation of codes. Now, some codes could still be cultural references or have hidden meanings etc, but the majority should be random, to prevent cheating upon replaying the game.

I totally agree!

DeepSeaDiver
31st Dec 2007, 19:15
If we are lucky enough to have code-typing in the pc version of DX3, I could see one improvement: randomisation of codes. Now, some codes could still be cultural references or have hidden meanings etc, but the majority should be random, to prevent cheating upon replaying the game.

Actually I like this one too but I think it would be best for only very specific cases. Like when you have to find Paul in the MJ12 base before Daedalus gives you the code out. It'd be nice if that code was random. Others like the Mole People's code (M-O-L-E 6653) shouldn't.

I know what you're saying is essentially the same but I think it should only be random for major plot points that aren't references. Most should be static I believe.

And for gamer0004... Sorry about that, I think I misread your post before a little.

soapfoam
1st Jan 2008, 08:14
One thing I hope would return is the way items were highlighted in IW. I loved the three green lines surrounding an object. Sure, it's gamey, but that's what I like.

Also, I don't see why the game can't be in a future (post-DX1) setting. They can just forget DX:IW ever happened. Or they can make it the next generation of Denton's pop up (or a wholly new character if they want). Either way, I would prefer it in the future, as the past kinda limits to what degree you can customize your character (I doubt they'd have augs or skills as advanced as in DX1).

Lastly, I pray you don't name it DX3, but instead call it DX: "something" This was a good move for Ubisoft to make when instead of continuing the Ghost Recon series numerically, they made it Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter. It kinda makes me feel better about buying it. It's like they acknowledged that Ghost Recon 2 was a horrible game and that they were going to push the series in a new and better direction. I was actually hoping Call of Duty 4 was going to drop the 4 and just call it CoD: Modern Combat, as CoD 3 was a horrid game and not even made by that great team at Infinity Ward. Anyways, give it some thought, please.

Harakiribert
1st Jan 2008, 11:02
They can just forget DX:IW ever happened.
Why should they? http://www.gamestar.de/community/gspinboard/images/smilies/no.gif


Lastly, I pray you don't name it DX3, but instead call it DX: "something" This was a good move for Ubisoft to make when instead of continuing the Ghost Recon series numerically, they made it Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter. It kinda makes me feel better about buying it. It's like they acknowledged that Ghost Recon 2 was a horrible game and that they were going to push the series in a new and better direction. I was actually hoping Call of Duty 4 was going to drop the 4 and just call it CoD: Modern Combat, as CoD 3 was a horrid game and not even made by that great team at Infinity Ward. Anyways, give it some thought, please.

The name has nothing to do with the game being good or bad. The change of the titles from numbers to subtitles also has nothing to do with pushing the series to a new and better direction. It's solely done for advertising purposes.

DeepSeaDiver
1st Jan 2008, 17:38
Either way, I would prefer it in the future, as the past kinda limits to what degree you can customize your character (I doubt they'd have augs or skills as advanced as in DX1).

To be honest I can't agree with this statement. The best reason I can give is Metal Gear Solid 3. That game is my favorite in the series so far and it came before all the others in its timeline.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't see it as limiting as much as it is covering a lot of backstory. There is a lot of unexplained and unshown parts to DX's story. Like all the details of how Bob Page surpassed the Illuminati, details on the greys, nanoaugs development, etc... We were given hints but not much else.

We could see nanoaugs in development. The ones you use could be flawed... they may have many of the ones from DX but they work slightly different, possibly not as "good" but still effective. Maybe some were deemed too strong and scaled back by DX1. Maybe some were made and tested and discontinued (ones not seen before).

All I'm saying is there is room for a lot of new stuff, and hopefully, a lot more story. How about how the NSF grew, MJ12 when they we still mostly just in Area 51, more about Area 51 before Page took it over, or all the other groups that seemed to disappear during DX, ie. Templars.

I'd really rather see DX3 be before DX1 than after DX2. DX2 was too "future" while DX1 was more today-ish.

Kneo24
1st Jan 2008, 20:17
It's not like it isnt within the grasp of a developer to have a game in the future, but still allow you to explore to perhaps explain backstory. It's actually a common practice. Those who want to know will explore, while those who want more action will not.

RÆPËR
1st Jan 2008, 22:57
When I played DX, I had a sheet of paper that I wrote all the codes down on. It really made it easier when I replayed the game. I hated the "You need to find the code before you can open the door" in DX:IW. I would much rather have the code system back. I would also like permanent augs, and the ability to have more. I hated the normal augs, then the black market one. I would like them all how it was in the original DX.

Harakiribert
1st Jan 2008, 23:39
When I played DX, I had a sheet of paper that I wrote all the codes down on. It really made it easier when I replayed the game.
So you rather make your game easier with something I consider cheating than having the same great game experience as in the first playthrough?


I hated the "You need to find the code before you can open the door" in DX:IW.
But it makes sense!


I would much rather have the code system back.
I agree on this one. But the codes should be randomized every time you start a new game.

LuciusDeBeers
2nd Jan 2008, 00:03
Randomising the codes is a good idea, but I'm not convinced it could be done easily with login/passwords. I liked manually typeing in codes and passwords in the original and really missed the feature in the sequel. It was an immersion thing I guess.

I read a review which stated that DX2 was a better game but DX1 was a better experience. While I don't agree with this I can see why the reviewer drew this conclusion. A lot of changes in IW were intended to streamline the game and help it flow but ultimately, in my view, overly simplified proceedings while becoming less engrossing.

Permanent augs were good because it meant your decisions had consequences. In IW augs could be changed as apparently some players felt trapped once they'd made a choice- strange given that one of the first game's greatest strengths was the way your decisions had an effect on the game world. The game didn't "fail" you and end if you allowed the hostages to die in the subway; it continued and you had to live with you failure.

I liked the idea of black market augs (or biomods as they were:scratch:). Perhaps they'd be a good middleground- official augs could be permanent but a black market aug could overwrite the slot- but only once- and could run the risk of malfunctioning.

DeepSeaDiver
2nd Jan 2008, 00:17
Another thing I'd like to see come back is the old menu interface. I liked the objective screen (primary and secondary), notes, convos, etc... from DX1.

DX2 wasn't bad but it felt harder to navigate.

As far as changing augs... I don't think the idea of "black market" augs would fit in a prequel but the idea that some type of augs can be changed while others cannot would be nice...

Or we can do multiple choices on the same aug... For example, one of my favs, the vision enhancement aug that eventually let you see through walls. Well to get that far you had to get night vision, infared, etc... Well, say I come to the chance to make my "x-ray" vision but change it to the long range ID (the other vision aug) instead. What I'm saying is make a "weaker" vision aug that can do more things (can do more tasks but none at a master level). I can see an item/npc's health plus distance AND have night vision as well, but I lose the ability to see through walls because of that choice.

It's kind of like modding your own augs to your own tastes. This could expand each person's experience. I upgrade my augs the way I want them to go... not how they were predetermined to go.


I hope that made sense.

Harakiribert
2nd Jan 2008, 00:21
Randomising the codes is a good idea, but I'm not convinced it could be done easily with login/passwords.
One possibility would be the addition of a number to the password, e.g. smashthestate105 and the next time it's smashthestate763...

primer
2nd Jan 2008, 00:29
I got Deus Ex 1 on PC & Playstation 2. When you used keypads rather than type the numbered code it did it for you on the PS2 so things were easier. Some other things were changed.

Bentebent
2nd Jan 2008, 01:05
Another thing I'd like to see come back is the old menu interface. I liked the objective screen (primary and secondary), notes, convos, etc... from DX1.

DX2 wasn't bad but it felt harder to navigate.


I think this is critical tbh, hated the UI in IW. Eidos should do like Bethsoft is doing in Fallout 3 and have a separate UI for PC and consoles.

I wouldn't mind a prequel either, just got around to finishing IW and damn, they really ****ed that one up. Could be hard though, Paul was the first successfully nanoaugmented person right?

DeepSeaDiver
2nd Jan 2008, 01:27
I think this is critical tbh, hated the UI in IW. Eidos should do like Bethsoft is doing in Fallout 3 and have a separate UI for PC and consoles.

I wouldn't mind a prequel either, just got around to finishing IW and damn, they really ****ed that one up. Could be hard though, Paul was the first successfully nanoaugmented person right?

That's what was said in the game... however secrets have the habit of getting lost in time. Who knows if he was really the first or if there was one or more before him that never went public. Maybe made by the Illuminati or another group.

That or heck... maybe we could play as a mech. I wonder what I would do with a "skul-gun". (Gunther Hermann reference)

SageSavage
2nd Jan 2008, 01:49
Well, keep in mind, that we have 2008 now... not too much room left for a prequel containing lots futuristic elements or stuff that's different enough from the world as we now it today. I still see lots of room for a story that takes place during the or directly after DX1 though.

DeepSeaDiver
2nd Jan 2008, 01:53
Well, keep in mind, that we have 2008 now... not too much room left for a prequel containing lots futuristic elements or stuff that's different enough from the world as we now it now. I still see lots of room for a story that takes place during the or directly after DX1.

Should be plenty of time... we're talking about anything before 2050ish aren't we?

Technology is advancing fairly rapidly.

jordan_a
3rd Jan 2008, 01:36
It would be most welcomed if players could simply be in trouble, in difficulty.
I mean all those games when you're the invicible guy getting shot 10 times before dying are outdated. :mad2:

DeepSeaDiver
4th Jan 2008, 02:27
It would be most welcomed if players could simply be in trouble, in difficulty.
I mean all those games when you're the invicible guy getting shot 10 times before dying are outdated. :mad2:


I never really had that much of a problem with that playing DX on Realistic. I'd get shot in the head once or the torso a few times and that was that.

Like I said in another post though, I'd definitey love to see the health system from DX1 revamped. Maybe have the ability to heal a wound but not get it to 100% all the time... I could only get my torso to 100% if I removed all the bullets for example.

The best way I say they could do this would be a health system on par with Metal Gear Solid 3. If you don't know what I mean I'd suggest looking it up. The biggest difference would be a shot to the head in DX would be fatal.

gamer0004
4th Jan 2008, 13:46
I never really had that much of a problem with that playing DX on Realistic. I'd get shot in the head once or the torso a few times and that was that.

Like I said in another post though, I'd definitey love to see the health system from DX1 revamped. Maybe have the ability to heal a wound but not get it to 100% all the time... I could only get my torso to 100% if I removed all the bullets for example.

The best way I say they could do this would be a health system on par with Metal Gear Solid 3. If you don't know what I mean I'd suggest looking it up. The biggest difference would be a shot to the head in DX would be fatal.

On realistic you died a bit too easily. It was good for gameplay (more of a challenge) but you could take the same amount of bullets as a nano-augmented agent as an NSF terrorist. Even though you wore body-armor :P

jordan_a
4th Jan 2008, 14:05
The way I see it, a head shot is a head shot no matter what the bullet. I'm convinced games have to challenge players because an easy game is a complete failure.

Unstoppable
4th Jan 2008, 18:46
The way I see it, a head shot is a head shot no matter what the bullet. I'm convinced games have to challenge players because an easy game is a complete failure.

I agree. Bioshock was easy most of the way but did have some challenges. Invisible War was easy as well and should of been harder.

Deus Ex 3 should bring back the realism difficulty of DX 1. As for no universal ammo, i'm all for it. Reloading is fun.

c37579
14th Apr 2008, 17:40
On realistic you died a bit too easily. It was good for gameplay (more of a challenge) but you could take the same amount of bullets as a nano-augmented agent as an NSF terrorist. Even though you wore body-armor :P

i think this made sense, surely you would die in the same number of bullets unles you had the ballistic protection aug? toherwise there isnt really any point to it :D and i dont think it was body armour - the armour you picked up was body armour - what JC wore was more of a... leather breastplate :P stylish but little protection from bullets :nut:

GruntOwner
14th Apr 2008, 20:33
I think anyone who expected to survive a prolonged firefight on realistic got what they deserved:rasp: I liked the system of being so weak, it meant combat was more a case of shoot first or find a vent, as oppose to the tanks that almost all modern shooters cast you as. I would quite like to see the regenerative health sytem most games use, but with localized damage and some permenat effects. There just seems to be something incredibely appealing about hobbling around with a single leg and a prosthetic stump which come as standard in medpacks, in a desperate search for a bot. Urgency was something the original did brilliantly, with the health system and enemy power levels, and then IW beggered that up with laughable bots and the ability to carry more candy than I would ever need med packs to make up for, and of course throwing the regen at you from day one.

Voltaire
22nd Apr 2008, 22:23
I think anyone who expected to survive a prolonged firefight on realistic got what they deserved:rasp: I liked the system of being so weak, it meant combat was more a case of shoot first or find a vent, as oppose to the tanks that almost all modern shooters cast you as...

I agree totally. There's nothing better than having to duck behind a big ol' crate to avoid a hail of bullets, otherwise you might as well play single-player halo forever.

Rechargeable shields my **** ...

MetalRaven
23rd Apr 2008, 03:43
I think the most important thing is an enemy you can truly despise. Most of the best games I've played had memorable enemies. DX:1 made you hate Bob Page...his attitude and the things he did we're horrible. That and can the universal ammo as suggested earlier...the thought of universal ammo has put me off playing the game every time I try.

gamer0004
23rd Apr 2008, 14:39
BTW enemies shouldn't make as many headshots as in DX1 on realistic settings. Unless you run around (as you'll probably always do) they almost always shoot you in the head. I mean, when facing an augmented agent armed with an assault rifle, who thinks of aiming carefully at the head? It looks so strange when you're not moving in combat...