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View Full Version : USER INTERFACE Vital setting for Mouse Control that's set to the wrong value by default.



ZProtoss
7th Dec 2013, 15:19
In Nosgoth, the default setting of OneFrameThreadLag is currently set to "true" in the ini. This setting should be set to "false" by default. Why? I'll share a link from another UE3 game I recently played (note the response from people in the comments):

http://ds.reddit.com/r/Tribes/comments/t1t7a/extremely_important_ini_tweak_that_drastically/

(Note: Eventually the developers did set this to the default setting in Tribes.)

The long and short of it is that mouse movement is significantly more responsive when this setting is set to false. Users can do the tweak themselves in Nosgoth already, but it'd be good if the default setting was changed prior to expanding the alpha :)

Oroibahazopi
7th Dec 2013, 17:23
Oh noes another trobes playa

I wonder just how broken this game will look with ini editing hmm.

File for Nosgoth is here:

C:\Users\<profile>\Documents\My Games\Nosgoth\BCMPGame\Config\BCMPSystemSettings.ini

blincoln
7th Dec 2013, 18:19
Before we go editing the INI file, maybe we should get confirmation from the Psyonix team that there's nothing that can be changed in there which will get us banned if it's detected as being modified :).

ZProtoss
7th Dec 2013, 18:32
Before we go editing the INI file, maybe we should get confirmation from the Psyonix team that there's nothing that can be changed in there which will get us banned if it's detected as being modified :).

That's not how Unreal Engine games work :P

blincoln
7th Dec 2013, 19:10
That's not how Unreal Engine games work :P

Only because the developers haven't chosen to do so. They could most certainly detect changes to the settings and take whatever action they wanted.

I doubt that Psyonix would ban anyone over this. I figure they would most likely issue a warning first if there was some sort of exploit via INI settings. But since it is a closed alpha/beta, I'd hate to see anyone lose their chance to participate just because we didn't check first.

On the other hand, they could very well issue a requirement that the file not be changed until the official release. Letting testers change the settings increases the number of variations they have to account for when someone runs into a bug.

It does sound like a helpful setting, though, so if Psyonix' people don't have any concerns, I'll be making it as well :).

Edit: in case anyone is wondering why I'm being cautious here, I don't know as much about Unreal as I do about some other engines, but as a hypothetical example, if there were a wireframe-only rendering mode, or an "always draw enemy health level indicator" flag, it would potentially give X-ray vision to gamers who enabled them.

Oroibahazopi
7th Dec 2013, 19:37
As alpha testers we're supposed to break this game. If there is a potential problem with ini editing it should be investigated now while there's still good budgets for development.

ZProtoss
7th Dec 2013, 19:43
Edit: in case anyone is wondering why I'm being cautious here, I don't know as much about Unreal as I do about some other engines, but as a hypothetical example, if there were a wireframe-only rendering mode, or an "always draw enemy health level indicator" flag, it would potentially give X-ray vision to gamers who enabled them.

Nah, there's nothing like that in unreal engine ini files. If you want a decent breakdown of what most of the options do, look no further than here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoLRo1M6-ypfdGtwVExZd2lHN3JuellwMTZndkJOZVE#gid=0

If nothing else, OneFrameThreadLag is important enough that if not set to false by default, it should at least be a setting in the default options of the game. The only reason to not have it be set to False is if you're playing a UE3 game on ancient hardware and struggle to get playable FPS. So if the game has templates for which settings to enable/disable, OneFrameThreadLag could be set to false for everything except the minimum template.

Oroibahazopi
7th Dec 2013, 19:50
There could be something like that e.g. flash ini

blincoln
7th Dec 2013, 20:56
This discussion is getting a little too close to things that could make the mods unhappy, so I'm going to bow out of it. Psyonix' developers are probably already aware of any ways that the INI file can be misused to cheat (if there are any such ways), but in case they're not, I'm happy to discuss that privately with those developers.
Anyway, while I think ideally making changes to the INI should be fair game (in the releases once the game is open to the public, it shouldn't be possible to change anything in the INI that allows a player to cheat), I'd just much rather get an official statement from Psyonix before I go monkeying around with mine, because I've been on both sides of the developer/tester fence.

RainaAudron
7th Dec 2013, 21:12
Hmm, I don´t think there is a potential harm in editing the ini settings file, which just has more options than found in-game so far. Editing inis is sometimes the only options for example to enable English language in certain localized games (looking at you BioWare). I´ve set the setting to false and I wonder if I´ll see any difference on Monday. Best to hear back from Eric or Corey on this.

Psyonix_Corey
8th Dec 2013, 02:02
We certainly won't ban anybody in Alpha for tinkering with INI files, particularly if you report stuff here, unless it's someone clearly exploiting and doing it repeatedly without reporting it. Like if you can one-hit kill everyone in the map somehow and you do it 24/7.

We'll look at exposing this as an advanced option. I'll have to discuss with our engineers if it makes sense to make default or not. It's there for a reason so I am skeptical but we will look at it.

ZProtoss
8th Dec 2013, 15:48
We certainly won't ban anybody in Alpha for tinkering with INI files, particularly if you report stuff here, unless it's someone clearly exploiting and doing it repeatedly without reporting it. Like if you can one-hit kill everyone in the map somehow and you do it 24/7.

We'll look at exposing this as an advanced option. I'll have to discuss with our engineers if it makes sense to make default or not. It's there for a reason so I am skeptical but we will look at it.

Glad to hear it :)

hirukaru
8th Dec 2013, 22:51
We certainly won't ban anybody in Alpha for tinkering with INI files, particularly if you report stuff here, unless it's someone clearly exploiting and doing it repeatedly without reporting it. Like if you can one-hit kill everyone in the map somehow and you do it 24/7.

We'll look at exposing this as an advanced option. I'll have to discuss with our engineers if it makes sense to make default or not. It's there for a reason so I am skeptical but we will look at it.

Can I exploit then for 4hours / 5 days long.
pretty please :).

But It is indeed good that the devs give the people freedom to play with ini files.
So people post all the good stuff on the forums and Ill be happy to test it out also. :thumb:

Psyonix_Eric
9th Dec 2013, 21:32
I spoke to our tech lead about this. Here's his take on it:

"We can look into the idea of making it an option, but we don't plan to set it by default this way. Basically, if the setting does anything at all, it's because your GPU is lagging behind. Turning the setting off just makes the game wait for the GPU before starting the next frame, so there's a 1 frame lag of input vs a 2 frame lag."

Oroibahazopi
9th Dec 2013, 22:15
That's pretty much what I read about it too, but you can't argue with just about every person who made the change in every Unreal game saying it improves mouse responsiveness either.

cmstache
9th Dec 2013, 22:45
Well, in quick paced games, split seconds often matter.

blincoln
10th Dec 2013, 01:19
Excellent! I'm giving it a try right now. Thanks Corey, and thanks ZProtoss for suggesting it :).
FWIW, without doing a double-blind test, it's hard to be sure whether it has a perceptible impact or not. The power of suggestion is great :).

Psyonix_Corey
10th Dec 2013, 05:07
I can't tell a difference personally, but we will add an option for "Reduce Input Lag"

Strike5150
10th Dec 2013, 14:26
I think the tech lead answered the question perfectly. I would say that 90% of players playing this game have the situation where their GPU is lagging behind, especially in a team fight. Therefore it makes sense to turn it off by default. If your GPU is doing what it should it won't matter, and if the GPU is a little behind it reduces input lag. 2 frames can be a damn long time, a mediocre video card might drop to 10FPS for a second in the middle of a teamfight. Thats 200ms input lag, ouch.