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hackmed
15th Dec 2007, 00:52
With loads of threads and posts talking about how deus ex 3 shouldnt do what I.W. did i thought id post something a little different.

Thought i loved the original deus ex, there was something that bugged me a little, hacking. Now hacking overall as an option was great, just added more depth to the game. But it could be improved, for instance in all you needed to do was spend your first skill points into "trained" for hacking, and you could pretty much hack into everything in the game pretty easily.

Now im sure there could be many ways to improve this, assuming you have the skill system in DE3 (which im sure you will!) then you could make it much harder for security systems later in the game to be hacked, needing a much higher skill for it.

For example, you could be given a certain amount of "hacking points" (you get more depending on your skill level) For example You could get 10 points for to hack with the trained skill, a security system could be hacked for 5 points, and once your inside, you could turn off a camera for an additional 2 points and depending on how demanding the system is, it could cost more points, requiring a higher skill. You would get th epoints back at the begging of a hack.

But thats just an example, anybody else have any ideas how hacking could be improved for DE3?

Woggy
15th Dec 2007, 02:23
A simple cut-off for harder security systems depending on your skill level would work, IMO. No need to over-complicate it. No need for little bioshock style puzzles, they get old quickly. Keep the timeouts, its a reward for having a higher skill lever and it also rewards you for actually finding the login information by letting you read all the emails in full.

phlebas
15th Dec 2007, 02:24
I certainly agree that the ability to hack systems really lent the game an atmosphere of reality. Maybe something like you suggested might be put to use. Who knows.

What I think is more important about the task of hacking systems, however, is the matter of user immersion through interface. The ability to use keyboard and input actual login/password and read emails written in format and jargons familiar to many users of current generation was a stroke of genius. Total immersion into the world with relatively minimal resource use and development. I'm hoping to see such approach to be capitalized in upcoming DX3, centered around actually allowing players to 'use' the terminals/systems/whatnot inevitably scattered across the DX3 world instead of making players click on a polygon and listen to a pre-recorded message. If you are going to put computers in a game, might as well give them an illusion of working.

Woggy
15th Dec 2007, 02:28
Agreed.
Actually, it would be cool if the interface was on the actual computer screen. That is, you'd type stuff and see it pop up on the screen in the game world. Not sure how you'd hack that though, cause a 'Hack' button on the actual interface would look odd :D

hackmed
15th Dec 2007, 02:43
Yeah i wasnt really thinking of a minigame, they tend to be tedious, just some way to give a higher hacking skill more use. And if you dont specilize in hacking then you would have to make a greater effort in getting around a security grid by stealth or investigation into finding the username and password (overhearing people talking etc).

As for the interface thing, im sure it will have to be changed for the consoles/controllers, BUT i really hope the PC version wont suffer from that and keep a deus ex style or a better interface.

Woggy
15th Dec 2007, 04:05
Oh yeah and one more thing, I'd rather not type in the logins/passwords ... its kinda tedious. It would be better if you already found the login/password, it would automatically type itself in. Each computer would have multiple accounts from a drop down list, you'd choose the account and it would put in the password if you have it. Sometimes in the original deus ex I couldn't be bothered looking up and typing in the login/password, so i'd just hack it. A bit silly.

WhatsHisFace
15th Dec 2007, 04:14
Yeah i wasnt really thinking of a minigame, they tend to be tedious, just some way to give a higher hacking skill more use. And if you dont specilize in hacking then you would have to make a greater effort in getting around a security grid by stealth or investigation into finding the username and password (overhearing people talking etc).

As for the interface thing, im sure it will have to be changed for the consoles/controllers, BUT i really hope the PC version wont suffer from that and keep a deus ex style or a better interface.

The hacking minigame in Bioshock wasn't so bad, but in Deus Ex it should just be skill-based like in Deus Ex 1 and 2.

gamer0004
15th Dec 2007, 09:36
I liked to type in the login and passwords. Made it more realistic. On the superfreighter for instance I had to sneak to the computer and reverse the flow of the bilge pumps. But there were 2 guards moving around and I had to be really quick (had to reload doozens of times), so I ctrl+c the password and typed in the login, and that was just quick enough. In a system where you don't need to type them in that would be less fun and less realistic.

Woggy
15th Dec 2007, 10:06
I dunno about you, but I let firefox auto-complete all my passwords ... its practically the same thing. Its the future man! His fingers are augmented anyway! ;)
I just never like referring back to my notes to make sure I get the spelling right.

Also my idea of putting the interface on the actual computer screen (instead of a full screen interface, think the way doom 3 handled it) would fix that bug where you could hack a PC while you sat behind it or underneath a desk!

MagnumJoe
15th Dec 2007, 10:23
Anyone played Splinter Cell - Chaos Theory?
I think the hacking system of this game was great!

It didn't consist of skills or anything, but rather, you had a limited amount of time to find certain IP numbers that fit together, then you can enter and start hacking.

My idea, is to combine both systems; meaning that, if you have low skills, then the "way" to hack into a system should be hard! And if you got more skill points, then you hack in easily!

I am not saying, use the same exact way of Splinter Cell, but i think one should be active about hacking: not just pressing a button and sit there waiting for green bar!

And when you enter the system, everything you want to change, needs a bit of a code to be discovered or deduced, and according to your skill, it's either hard to change anything, or easy, or maybe it's too damn hard, so you will just give up as you don't have such time to hack into things. But i didn't like the idea of the absolute in DX 1, as you can't change camera or sentry gun if you got low skills. Just make it hard, but no impossible.

And, according to your skill, and the complexity and sophistication of the system (onwards at the final levels), you should have a limited amount of time.

gamer0004
15th Dec 2007, 13:44
Hmm. I don't really agree. Because of you use such a complexe system for hacking, you would need soething similar for lockpicking and using the multitools, and it wouldn't be fun.
You've got to understand that real hacking is done by programs (software), so the DX1 system is the most realistic. Better skill is better CPU and software, so you hack faster and you can do more when you've hacked the computer.
I think there should be poorly protected pc's, mediocre protected and very good protected pc's. With low skill you can hack esily into the computers with the worst security (private computers, like the one you have at home), and you can hack into the better secured computers but with different results. So sometimes you succeed and sometimes you don't.

pKp
15th Dec 2007, 14:00
What I think is more important about the task of hacking systems, however, is the matter of user immersion through interface. The ability to use keyboard and input actual login/password and read emails written in format and jargons familiar to many users of current generation was a stroke of genius. Total immersion into the world with relatively minimal resource use and development. I'm hoping to see such approach to be capitalized in upcoming DX3, centered around actually allowing players to 'use' the terminals/systems/whatnot inevitably scattered across the DX3 world instead of making players click on a polygon and listen to a pre-recorded message. If you are going to put computers in a game, might as well give them an illusion of working.
Totally agree with that. That was one of the rare things I really liked in Doom III : to use a computer, you came close and clicked on the screen. Same thing for keypads : you just clicked on the buttons. That's immersion.

The point-based hacking system is a cool idea, but not very realistic (still moreso than a "hack" button, though :D ).

Xcom
15th Dec 2007, 14:32
I also think that hacking (and computer usage) can be made into something more that just hitting a button.

joseph5891
15th Dec 2007, 21:14
here's an idea:

at first i was thinking they should do what IW did - let you access lesser functions like e-mails at low levels, and harder (and more important) functions like turret overrides on higher skills.

but then i thought - let's take it up a notch

whenever you log on to a computer, you can hit the "icebreaker" or whatever to bypass the password. but it wouldn't always be a garaunteed success - there would be a certain percent chance the hack would fail, and this chance would decrease as you increased your skill. if you tried to hack the password and failed a certain number of times, the computer would lock down, and maybe even set off an alarm. once you got inside, you could pretty much read e-mails freely, but the ability to bypass turrets, download data packets, view video archives, and other stuff (and yes - they should add stuff like that in and make the hacking section a little bit more in-depth) would also have certain percentages of success. this would keep the hacking user-friendly, but add a little more depth to the hacking system

another idea is to make you more able to "detect" certain things as your level increases. for example, at lower levels you might read a seemingly innocuous e-mail with a picture of the senders dog. at a higher level, you could detect that that picture file had a secret message encrypted into it. you could tell if people were monitoring the your workstation, or perhaps the existence of a special command that wouldn't have known about before.

another idea i had was not only to include succeed/fail percentages with increasing level, but also the accuracy of these percentages. for example, at a low level you would see a red or green bar, red corresponding to roughly <50% chance of success, green roughly >50%. then at higher levels, you would see this in increments of 25, 10, and 1%. this would be analagous to the fact that as a newbie in a skill, you aren't fully aware of your own skill level and your self-awareness continues as you practice, but i dunno - it seems like that element is just making it too complicated for little payoff.

user-9
27th Dec 2007, 12:01
I think the hacking side of the game would be a lot more interesting if you made it more true to life.

Give the user a console to navigate networks using DOS or Unix (preferably) commands or run programs - brute forcers, port scanners, key-loggers and so on. Let the user e-mail trojans into organisations or to characters to gain control of their systems.

You could put the console commands in a book in the game so the player could keep it real, or alternatively, let the player buy programs (password crackers and so on) in the same way that he might buy equipment.

It doesn't have to be mega complicated to be life like and it would be a lot more fun because you'd feel like you were hacking.

Red
27th Dec 2007, 12:39
Yeah, although interesting, I think that approach would fail because of the repetition and/or anoyance. During the first couple of hacks, player would say "this stuff is awesome!" and some time later in the game it could happen that the reaction would fall down to "Oh god no, not this again... :S", so people wouldn't even bother to hack anymore if it weren't really necessary. I know I wouldn't like to spend 5 minutes at hacking just to read 2 love-letter emails between some characters.

It's important to keep it simple, yet intriguing, not boring, and diverse, of course... Just look at Bioshock... Same dog gamn mini game all over and over and over again, so you either don't bother to hack and walk past the devices, or, you simply "buy out" because of boringness and repetition.

ThatDeadDude
27th Dec 2007, 13:50
@user-9: ... yeah... that stuff would be cool for a while, but as has been said, would get tiring by the 20th PC. Also, we must face the fact that this will almost certainly be a multi-platform game (:(), so that interacting with a console will be very difficult to achieve.

mr_cyberpunk
27th Dec 2007, 19:57
Command Crunching FTW! If you guys are going to do hacking.. learn from the two best games that did it better than Deus Ex.

1. Neuromancer - by Interplay
2. Uplink - by IntroVersion software

Both of these games take you right into hacking and let you do some hell cool things as well as relying purely on the player's knowledge. I know in the DX1 Alpha they tried to implement something like this but resorted to the ICE Breaker instead.

Harakiribert
27th Dec 2007, 22:45
1. Neuromancer - by Interplay

I've never heard of the game but I can recommend the same-named novel by William Gibson. One of the first Cyberpunk books.:thumbsup:

Kneo24
27th Dec 2007, 23:13
Why not implement something ala Dystopia (a mod for the Source engine)? That would truly make hacking more enjoyable.

mr_cyberpunk
28th Dec 2007, 00:48
Because that'd require Cyberspace.. Deus Ex never mentions Cyberspace at any point of the game (cyberspace being the 3D Virtual Reality representation of the internet ala William Gibson's Matrix)

Kneo24
28th Dec 2007, 12:36
Well it would still fit. They're still hacking into things, things that are probably connected to some global protocol for data transfer, like the internet. It would certainly make hacking more unique and fun.

LuciusDeBeers
29th Dec 2007, 15:30
I like the idae of hacking being more interactive than simply hitting a button. Bioshock has shown that it can be integrated on consoles in a similiar fashion as it can with a mouse on a PC.

Expanding on this- how about making lockpicking more interactive a la Thief deadly shadows. Again, worked on consoles and is more immersive than simply "firing" a lockpick at a door.

the resolute girl
29th Dec 2007, 15:40
Why not implement something ala Dystopia (a mod for the Source engine)? That would truly make hacking more enjoyable.

I'm a dystopian as well !!!! but if they implement all that dystopia has done (encryption, password, ice wall, ice mine, green ice, ice breaker, ice alarm, hitscan + projectile, different movement, gravitational re-orientation) including the awesome TRON-like representation of the internet you would have a 2nd game inside the first one.

Not that I am against it, you could make it optional to train your character for online 3d access as well and it would be awesome but I really doubt that the devs will do it, you know, with all the "must-be-accessible-to-trained-monkeys" talk of the last years and reaching "critical mass" for an AAA-title, blah, blah, blah, I fear we will rather get LESS systems in DX3 than more and deeper and complex ones.

Nobody nowadays goes for truly rewarding their players and motivating them to try out many things, they just go for the quick fix, the money-shot, give him the shotgun and place the enemy before him, or if you're lucky you get an A/B choice (Bioware and 2k Boston, I'm lookin at you)

gamer0004
29th Dec 2007, 18:56
I like the idae of hacking being more interactive than simply hitting a button. Bioshock has shown that it can be integrated on consoles in a similiar fashion as it can with a mouse on a PC.

Expanding on this- how about making lockpicking more interactive a la Thief deadly shadows. Again, worked on consoles and is more immersive than simply "firing" a lockpick at a door.

Yeah, the hack system of Bioshock was great!
And lockpicking in Oblivion for instance didn't work on pc, it worked perfectely fine on the xbox 360 though. Haven't played Thief so I don't know whether it was good or not.

Kneo24
29th Dec 2007, 20:29
Locking picking in Oblivion worked just fine. It wasn't the best system, but it worked. If you couldn't master it, that's your own fault.

imported_van_HellSing
29th Dec 2007, 21:30
Yeah, the hack system of Bioshock was great!
And lockpicking in Oblivion for instance didn't work on pc, it worked perfectely fine on the xbox 360 though. Haven't played Thief so I don't know whether it was good or not.

The lockpicking in Thief 3 was vastly better than the hacking in BioShock. For one, it actually made some sense within the game world, and was not just a completely abstract minigame. It worked especially well on the Xbox - you actually felt like you're operating a lockpick when moving around with the knob on the pad, finding sweet spots activated the vibration feature of the pad, then you had to click to unlock them.

Admittedly, with PC controls some of the magic was lost, but it was still much, much better than the one-click lockpicking in DX or the simple two-way trial-and-error lockpicking Thief 1 & 2. Thief 3 is quite controversial among Thief fans (though not as universally hated as IW with the DX crowd), but the lockpicking system is one feature that pretty much everyone agrees came out better than the previous games.

As for hacking, the DX system has to go. As previously stated, In DX upgrading the hacking skill beyond "trained" was pretty much useless, since you had access to all features of all computers independent of skill level. The only drawback was the time you were allowed into the system, but for fast readers that was no problem at all, and you could hack into a computer multiple times anyway.

Someone mentioned Introversion's Uplink - a simplified version of this game would be wonderful to see as hacking in DX3, with difficulty of the hack based on your skill.

Also, I would argue that dependent on skill, some hacks should be automatically considered impossible. This would eliminate a situation where simply mastering the hacking minigame would make advancing skill useless.

the resolute girl
30th Dec 2007, 06:53
I'm a Thief fan and seperately observed, Thief3 is a very good game with one of the best levels ever brought to my screen: theCradle. I'm even one who liked the bodyawareness. But 1000 hells for the devs for no rope-arrows. And smallish levels. Compared to 1+2 it doesn't hold up.
But very good idea with Uplink ! Like you said, we should look for something that makes a little more sense in the gameworld, no waterpuzzles or simple buttonclicks. And somebody else mentioned the nice D3 feature of directly accessing panels and doors with the cursor. I liked that too.

gamer0004
30th Dec 2007, 11:49
Locking picking in Oblivion worked just fine. It wasn't the best system, but it worked. If you couldn't master it, that's your own fault.

Like I said, it worked perfectely fine - on the 360 (haven't played it on a PS3).

Kneo24
30th Dec 2007, 12:17
It worked fine on the PC too. I don't know why you think it didn't.

SageSavage
30th Dec 2007, 12:33
I think Uplink's system is overkill for DX, even in a simplified form. I am all for interactive hacking but I think it shouldn't be much more than in DX1 - for the sake of the game's overall-pace. Bioshock's system was quite lame, at least how they executed it, imo.

Kasjada
30th Dec 2007, 14:55
Some days ago i started to play DX1 again and now i am near to the end. I hacked everything i found and it was really fun, but many aspects could still be improved.

For example I would include a download possibility for the data that is stored on the computer. That would be much more realistic and allows the user to read mails again.

I also like the idea of hacking console instead of just clicking on a button. It shouldn't be to complicated and realistisc, but hard enough that the player has to use its brain. (An example for a hacking console in a game is the Matrix game)

In addition to that I would like to have a PDA or Infolink screen to hack into systems instead of a hacking button on the screen you want to hack.


Finally some words to the skill system in general:

Don't allow the player to be a highly skilled "Super Man". I would like the possibility to choose one or two main skill(s) that the player can improve during the storyline. All other skills should be improvable as well, but it should cost much more skill points.

If you do this and the story and level design is created in a way that there is a different way for every main skill then it would be a quite good mix i think.

An example:

The player should enter a heavily guarded building to steal a special item.

Player A (hacker):
He can disable the alarm system and use the enemy turrets against the guards. Locked doors, safety-light-barriers and other systems are no problem as long as he finds the right computer and does not get into a combat.

Player B (heavy weapons):
With opening the doors of the main entrance the first bullets have already left the players weapons. (I think there isn't much more to say :D )

Player C (thief):
His weapon is the invisibility. He can assasinate enemies without making any noise and he is a perfect pickpocket. When he leaves the building no living person knows that he was there.

mr_cyberpunk
30th Dec 2007, 23:35
And this is why I think the Uplink system is better than what Fox suggested.. Not all of us are FPS fans, what made Deus Ex great was that you at least had a choice as to how you played the game. If we take it further then we open up many different ways to play the same game, this means its very fun and encourages replaying ultimately increasing the longevity of the product - which is what Eidos wants since that gets them the $$$ and GOTY awards.

Further more I would rather people stop classing the skills, Deus Ex never had classes rather you could customize your character without the need for classes. This is great design so suggesting classes is a bad way to go, we don't want encourage restriction.

SageSavage
31st Dec 2007, 00:11
And this is why I think the Uplink system is better than what Fox suggested.. Not all of us are FPS fans, what made Deus Ex great was that you at least had a choice as to how you played the game.I made no suggestions, all I've said was to keep the hacking system interactive but simple and I am all for choices and RPG-elements. So what do you mean?

JakethePirate
31st Dec 2007, 05:36
For hacking I'd like to see a somewhat simplified Uplink style system. If you just ported in Uplink, removed bouncing, logs, passive trace and etc, made trace time reliant on hacking skill and let the player purchase program and CPU upgrades from merchant characters, the hacking would probably turn out great (I'm aware this is infeasible in terms of intellectual property and such, but my point is clear, right?). The reason Uplink is so successful is because it's tense. DX1's countdown bar was similarly tense on a much smaller scale. An Uplink-like system would create the emotional response that made DX's hacking enjoyable and add some needed interactivity.

I'm with mr_cyberpunk on the classing too- allowing the player to choose skills a la carte is more satisfying than forcing him into an archetype.

Kalai
1st Jan 2008, 14:08
"Don't allow the player to be a highly skilled "Super Man""

Why not? Why would any organization spend 50 billion per agent, not to mention all the money used to develope the technology to begin with, to produce slightly better than your average joe, agents? Sure they can have augs but what use are those augs if the user can't shoot someone at a hundred paces? Or if he can't open locks or use computers for anything more than checking his mail?

Red
1st Jan 2008, 16:54
Beacuse it is a game and people like challenging games and they like to face the difficulties which are layed on their path. What's the use of playing superhuman and killing everyone with a single fart? Does that make game more plausible in real life? Probably. Does it make it fun? Sure, to some extent. Is that a Deus Ex-caliber game? Hell no. It would be narrowed down to some stupid nakatomi-plaza-****-game nobody would spend 5$ on.

Kasjada
1st Jan 2008, 17:14
"Don't allow the player to be a highly skilled "Super Man""

Why not? Why would any organization spend 50 billion per agent, not to mention all the money used to develope the technology to begin with, to produce slightly better than your average joe, agents? Sure they can have augs but what use are those augs if the user can't shoot someone at a hundred paces? Or if he can't open locks or use computers for anything more than checking his mail?

Red is right, if you are superman playing the game isn't fun anymore, but i ment it in a bit different way.

If you aren't able to master every skill it makes more fun to play the game a second or even a third time to see how different skills change the gameplay experience.

Kneo24
1st Jan 2008, 20:15
Beacuse it is a game and people like challenging games and they like to face the difficulties which are layed on their path. What's the use of playing superhuman and killing everyone with a single fart? Does that make game more plausible in real life? Probably. Does it make it fun? Sure, to some extent. Is that a Deus Ex-caliber game? Hell no. It would be narrowed down to some stupid nakatomi-plaza-****-game nobody would spend 5$ on.

But the thing is, you were a superman at the end of each Deus Ex game anyway. You may not have maxed out everything, but if you built your character in a certain fashion, they were pretty much invincible (except for a few parts). This does not negate any difficulty factor along the way to achieving such things. In fact, I'd say that building your character up to that point was probably damn difficult. You had to scour every inch of every place to find all of the right things and not die on the way.

So really, there shouldn't be any problem with the ability to be a superman. If you work for it, you deserve it.

Red
2nd Jan 2008, 00:56
Yes, I agree with that.

I suppose I jumped because of the statement that you should have been a superman from the sole beginning, since you are 60 bill $ worth project. Although logical, that would really hurt the game.

Kasjada
2nd Jan 2008, 09:50
But the thing is, you were a superman at the end of each Deus Ex game anyway.

Okay that is something different. If you reach that status at the very end and really have worked for it hard then I agree with you.

Kalai
4th Jan 2008, 18:16
Yes, I agree with that.

I suppose I jumped because of the statement that you should have been a superman from the sole beginning, since you are 60 bill $ worth project. Although logical, that would really hurt the game.

Wow! Someone actually said that? I don't see that anywhere. I guess what you're referring to is my earlier statement about expensive agents. The only thing I see in these last pots that is connected to Nakatomi plaza is the height of the stable you need to put your high horse in.
What I implied with my previous post was exactly what you were just saying. You should have a lot more POTENTIAL. And by superman at least I didn't mean the superhero , man of steel with an s on his forehead and ann @$$ for a chin. What I meant was A superman. A man (or woman) with superhuman potential. Thanks to augs, conditioning and genetic programming.

Unstoppable
4th Jan 2008, 18:32
I want hacking to be like Deus Ex 1 but with several twists.

1)When you hack things you can upload them to an Eidos master server, and leave comments for other people or tips/tricks. Limit this in a way to avoid spoilers.

2)If we have multiplayer (and I surely hope we do) We can sabotage people's defenses and what not. The way we would get the password is because randomly across the level, data cubes with passwords would spawn.

3)If data cubes with passwords spawn then they needed to be protected. Thus giving players a defensive and fun objective to guard.

Paradukes
7th Feb 2008, 15:06
For hacking I'd like to see a somewhat simplified Uplink style system. If you just ported in Uplink, removed bouncing, logs, passive trace and etc, made trace time reliant on hacking skill and let the player purchase program and CPU upgrades from merchant characters, the hacking would probably turn out great (I'm aware this is infeasible in terms of intellectual property and such, but my point is clear, right?). The reason Uplink is so successful is because it's tense. DX1's countdown bar was similarly tense on a much smaller scale. An Uplink-like system would create the emotional response that made DX's hacking enjoyable and add some needed interactivity.


That was my thinking as well. Hacking shouldn't be a matter of pushing a button and waiting around. And if someone doesn't like hacking, fair enough. Just shoot your way through instead.

As for lockpicking, it should work somewhat similarly to the Thief 3 system, only it should be a lot harder. Lets face it, lockpicking in T:3 was never exactly a challenge, and you were guarenteed to get through in the end.
The DX3 lockpicking system should be similar, but it would have extra constraints, like a limited amount of time to spend on each ring, sweet-spots that change position between atempts, and alarms that go off if the player takes too long (We're talking about relatively high-tech locks here, right?).
There should be serious advantages to having higher lock-picking skill, like having more time to spend, and less chance of tripping an alarm.

This system would mean that some locks would be unpickable to players with a lower lock-picking skill, since the time given would make picking it simply impossible. The player would either have to improve their skill before attempting to pick the lock again, or find an automatic lock-pick (These should be in VERY short supply), or just find another way around.

Larington
30th Mar 2008, 20:59
Reading this particular thread I find myself wondering - Why not do both and allow the user to choose whether he/she wants simplified or minigame style hacking/lock-picking/system-intrusion. That'll throw the reviewers for a loop, that's for sure. The effort required wouldn't be that much greater than doing mini-game only but would allow the game to please both camps, whilst also offering a small replay opportunity in terms of making the other choice on the second play through.

In anycase, what I personally feel would be nice is a remote hacking/wireless hacking biomod. The biomod allows you to A) Hack into wireless networks, err, wirelessly and B) allows you to quickly attach (throw?) a small device onto a computer and then wirelessly hack into the computer system via that device after ducking underneath the desk, around the corner or whatever. The device can be spotted by guards triggering a "who put this here, search the building" response but otherwise allows you to hack into a system in relative safety.
But its a biomod so you'd have to find the mod and install it before you could make use of it. Upgrading it would reduce power consumption and increase the range at which the remote computer hacking tool can transmit its data to your biomod.

Also, I feel I'd like to add my voice to the 'Download data' feature, its certainly something I felt was missing in DX1.

dimaf1985
30th Mar 2008, 22:06
Anyone ever play Splinter Cell? Chaos Theory got the hacking system down PERFECTLY. It wasnt too complicated to figure out but it was still challenging, realistic, and actually required upgrades to the player character's stats (sorta an RPG element) to be able to hack more secure systems. It can be tweaked a bit for DX but definitely an uplink type hacking system, with a set time limit based on your hacking skill is a must.

m72
31st Mar 2008, 09:51
I say just the classic DX hacking screen or if possible Uplink style hacking:D

IceBallz
31st Mar 2008, 17:28
No stupied minigames to hacking. Like pipes or lines, or mini crackhead games. I want it all only work inside my skills of hacking. Hacktool should work the same how ever i do, it's still a tool and no toy.

ArcAngelSlayer
31st Mar 2008, 22:30
Hi guys new to the forums :D

Hacking should have a deffinate immersion to it, do you guys remember uplink, now I know we don't want to go into that detail but it was the real interface that captured it.

50 years from now allot of what we see today will not change yes the medium will change but the way in which we relate to it will not, things will still have a subject a login and password. so I agree with allot of you it should have an interface with scrolling encryption codes and names that we find familiar now to imerse us in the game.

The greatest thing about the hacking in Deus Ex was the interface knowing you had to do the hack just in time. or find a password.

An idea I quite liked from splinter cell was the thermal vision on keypads, I think if you have the thermal vision ability you should be able to see traces and work out passwords from keypads and computer systems.

Also I agree with IceBallz no bioshock minigames no connect the tubes. its got no relation to the concept of hacking so leave it out!

Blade_hunter
1st Apr 2008, 21:27
We have the hacking and the lockpicking too i think this way is important as the hacking skill

But in DX 1 the hack of a computer is maded by our neurolink when we reached the level 2 of the computer skill
This hacking system in some ways is something unrealistic as some people sayed before and replace it by a sort of minigame but I don't know if use a system like an other game is good because it's not new (like ArcAngelSlayer says) and even the system of this game was good and fun to use.

But for finding a password on a computer I propose the next thing

In a limited period of time we can try to find each letter of the login and code, if you have a better skill some letters/numbers are revealed

For hack a keypad we can try to connect wires to the right places and the Microchips to Hack the pad if this don't give results we must repair our components to begin an other try. better the skill is less components are used

For deactivating an alarm system we need only place some wires to deactivate or make an other effect if the skill is insuficient (non desired effect) or a better effect if the skill is better

For a normal electric system we need only to suppress some fuses and pull down the circuits breakers, but if we do that some systems are suted down and this can makes the guard and security bots under alert .... some guards can find the way to restablish the power or a secondary system is activated, we can pass some security systems when the power is off before the restoration of the power.

For lockpicking I don't have any Idea for the moment ...

If we won't any minigames the DX 1 system is good for all things except the electrical pannels and the keypads

To hack a key pad we can add a circuit board or more like the use of the multitools

For using doors we can find several type of keys like the nanokey's but some other kind of keys should be added like the normal keys, magnetic cards, electronic cards, and maybe more ...

For the lockpick DX1 or an other system should be good ....

Vasarto
3rd Apr 2008, 18:01
As far as hacking computers. I think there should be limits set on more realistic settings on what you can and cannot hack into in the game.

My ideas are as so

1.Beginner hackers- Should only be able to hack onto home computers and
terminals of people whom have little or no security systems...but still even some home computers can't be hacked into.

2.Mid Level hacker- Can hack into any civilian computer and Low tech Military
terminals such as hacking into small unactive robots and rewritting them to
identify new types of enemy's and being able to successfully activate them.

3.High level hacker - Can hack into most security systems for a short to modest period of time depending on the security system. Most secourty turrets and camara's are now under your command.

4.Master hacker - No secruity system on the planet earth is safe. You can spend an infinite time in a security system and even hack or wire the security
system into other security systems and computers outside your location. Thus you can take over an entire building or parts of a city with just useing
a single computer terminal. After all every computer is linked to one another now and days and since deus ex is set in the futer computers must be linked to each other even more-so than ever before. So it wouldn't be too far fetched that you could use a military security terminal to hack into the bases entire security system or other terminals out there.

Inane Mythos
3rd Apr 2008, 18:48
I liked the way the Cassandra Mod handled the use of Multitools, when used the code to the keypad you're hacking into will quickly flash above and if you missed it, you'd have to use another 'tool.

Keeps you on your toes.

Blade_hunter
3rd Apr 2008, 20:36
Why not after all fails in hack can add a sort of suspense when I've played SS2 we can fail and use our nanites (ressource / money can be used for hack, repair and other stuff)
But I don't know the system of this mod can give you the link

In Varsato's idea I think something is interresting because when we can hack not of all terminals / computer are possible to hack I don't know if the Idea is very good or not but I like the logic of the Idea, because when we have the possibility to hack not all systems are vulnerable, SS2 use something like this

In DX 1 and 2 we have a limit of the skills, some security pads only arn't possible to hack be cause if all systems are vulnerable some pars of the game can be easily avoided

Igoe
4th Apr 2008, 07:07
The fact of the matter is, this is a GAME.

In a game you don't want to have to work unless the work is fun. You also have to be aware that different people find different things fun.

I just got around to playing Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines. The mechanism for computers is VERY manual. You have to type email to access email, unlock to unlock something, yadda yadda. At first this was kind of neat, but annoying. Several computers later I was pulling my hair out. Several MORE computers later I started dumping points into the necessary categories just to be able to hold CTRL+C to hack the dumb things.

Point of the matter is the more manual something gets, the more likely you are to piss someone off. I'm not lazy or stupid or an ADD child. I'm a guy who wants to PLAY a game, not work at a game.

DX's system of hacking is probably the way to go. Very simple, point and click, everything does what it looks like it should do. Its not 100% realistic, but its not work.

There SHOULD be, however, a better reward than more time for Master hackers. I guess I'd propose the drop-down menu+password option, AND the ability to download email text for full reading. Anything under that, you can type the account name and password manually if you chose, or click the handy Ice Breaker.

I think minigames get old and tedious, and DX:IW's simple click click auto remember every password wasn't immersive enough. DX's hacking was good because it COULD be immersive if you chose, yet ALWAYS had the quick option, for when you didn't feel like spending more than 2 minutes to get a byte or two of data.

You have to assume that not everybody wants a quick, or a manual way. You have to cater to both.

Kevyne-Shandris
5th Apr 2008, 05:57
For example I would include a download possibility for the data that is stored on the computer. That would be much more realistic and allows the user to read mails again.

Wonderful way to incorporate this is the need to read and SEND a TYPED email (at least one check in per level). Sending email would be an interesting spin on the game, as interaction isn't just one sided.

PC gamers would be right at the keyboard anyway (agh, forgot, console users don't have keyboards).

Sigh. Classic cyberpunk game crippled by XBoxers, again. :mad2:

Blade_hunter
5th Apr 2008, 09:05
In DX1 we have to type passwords and logs extend this for mails or something like this can be fun and adds immersion to the game but an hybrid way as Igoe says (I think)
In first time (for me of course it's better to develop the game for PC's and adds simplifications if it needed for consoles .... )

hackmed
5th Apr 2008, 22:40
As far as hacking computers. I think there should be limits set on more realistic settings on what you can and cannot hack into in the game.

My ideas are as so

1.Beginner hackers- Should only be able to hack onto home computers and
terminals of people whom have little or no security systems...but still even some home computers can't be hacked into.

2.Mid Level hacker- Can hack into any civilian computer and Low tech Military
terminals such as hacking into small unactive robots and rewritting them to
identify new types of enemy's and being able to successfully activate them.

3.High level hacker - Can hack into most security systems for a short to modest period of time depending on the security system. Most secourty turrets and camara's are now under your command.

4.Master hacker - No secruity system on the planet earth is safe. You can spend an infinite time in a security system and even hack or wire the security
system into other security systems and computers outside your location. Thus you can take over an entire building or parts of a city with just useing
a single computer terminal. After all every computer is linked to one another now and days and since deus ex is set in the futer computers must be linked to each other even more-so than ever before. So it wouldn't be too far fetched that you could use a military security terminal to hack into the bases entire security system or other terminals out there.

I also think that there should be very high security systems towards the start of the game and because you cant skill up that fast it would be impossible to hack into to. The only way to get into the system would be to find out the password somehow (social engineering, datacube in safe etc). And on the note of datacubes, datacubes containing passwords of high security systems should not be just laying about anywhere like in the original.

Vasarto
5th Apr 2008, 22:56
I also think that there should be very high security systems towards the start of the game and because you cant skill up that fast it would be impossible to hack into to. The only way to get into the system would be to find out the password somehow (social engineering, datacube in safe etc). And on the note of datacubes, datacubes containing passwords of high security systems should not be just laying about anywhere like in the original.

Ya like maybe have the Disk in a locked desk drawer or Perhapes over hear a
conversation while sneaking around maybe? Or something even better. Have like what I said in the stealth idea's. Adding the splinter cell thing
where you can hide just around a wall or something, Grab someone and interogate them for info. Asking them a series of multiquestions or having a list of remarks or things you can say to someone. If you ask them in the correct way cuz each person would be diffarant. They would or would not
give you the password for the system. Than you can kill and dispatch of their body somewhere or Knock them unconcious.

Gunter Herman
5th Apr 2008, 23:09
I dunno about you, but I let firefox auto-complete all my passwords ... its practically the same thing.

Is it? Well then try auto-completetion of your passwords on my PC... I don't assume the hero will be hanging out in his/her office and using his/her own computer all the game... :lol:


Its the future man! His fingers are augmented anyway! ;)

Yet he (i.e. I) still chooses to move them, no? So: My vote for typing in passwords and using computers in the game through the interface of my real computer here.

Btw, anyone played a game called "Experience 112"? Nice approach with the windows interface I think - something like that would be nice, too.

Larington
5th Apr 2008, 23:21
If the data vault makes it into DX3 (And I hope an equivalent of it does), then when you get a password and/or login name the Data Vault stores it and provides a panel on the computer access screen that allows you to scroll through all the password/login combinations you've discovered. It doesn't type them in for you, but doesn't force you to memorise stuff either.

Also, lets borrow a convention from the real world here, if you've discovered a password and login that works, you can then use the hacking function from inside the login to hack into other logins on that system (The benefit being that its easier to hack/takes longer before you're detected/whatever)...

Gary_Savage
6th Apr 2008, 03:43
Also, lets borrow a convention from the real world here, if you've discovered a password and login that works, you can then use the hacking function from inside the login to hack into other logins on that system (The benefit being that its easier to hack/takes longer before you're detected/whatever)...

I like this. Most computers I come across give you a login screen, which you have to get past, using a login and password, before you can try to break the system's security. It is unlikely that all computers will have a guest account that you ca get into, to start some sort of password bypassing program.

On a further note, maybe an option can be given for me (the player character) to restart a computer (unless loging in remotely), and then gain access (the real world equivalent of which is a hard restart, followed by a low/no security run level -- I am not sure of the Windows terminology for this). The flip side of this would be security knowing, instantaneously, where I am, thus giving me a very limited amount of time to do ANYTHING. As soon as security find the computer in question, they set things right, so I have to do the hard restart again. Of course, I would like a half dozen security guys hunting me down, as well.

gamer0004
8th Apr 2008, 16:23
I would definately like the possibility to overhear a guy whilst typing in his login/password or looking which numbers or letters he types.

dxfan94
8th Apr 2008, 21:09
Hacking is a good idea. but in DX 1 you had a certain amount of time. BAD IDEA FOR THAT DX IW had better hacking. but i think once you hack a computer you dont have to keep hacking to get back in. No hacking points ect.

Deadelus
30th Apr 2008, 11:15
Just my 2¢.. But what if it were kind of like DX1, where different skills hacked different machines (Security and Home), but with higher skills, different objects appeared? For example, say you have some home machine, used for email. Level one (basic) would let you read some email that's spam. Level 2 lets you read a letter from the guys girlfriend saying she left $200 next to the stove for groceries. Level 3 or 4 (or so on) would let you read both of the above, but also retrieve letters and pics that could be vital to game play. 'Ted, you know your services to us are immeasurable. (yada yada, yak yak). Oh, we changed the keycode for the base: its now 75986. Cya tomorrow.'.

Deadelus
30th Apr 2008, 11:18
I like this. Most computers I come across give you a login screen, which you have to get past, using a login and password, before you can try to break the system's security. It is unlikely that all computers will have a guest account that you ca get into, to start some sort of password bypassing program.

On a further note, maybe an option can be given for me (the player character) to restart a computer (unless loging in remotely), and then gain access (the real world equivalent of which is a hard restart, followed by a low/no security run level -- I am not sure of the Windows terminology for this). The flip side of this would be security knowing, instantaneously, where I am, thus giving me a very limited amount of time to do ANYTHING. As soon as security find the computer in question, they set things right, so I have to do the hard restart again. Of course, I would like a half dozen security guys hunting me down, as well.

I beleive that you are refering to the 'root administrator'. Username Administrator, and in most cases, no pass. Unless during setup one was given..

Tttt
3rd May 2008, 16:39
I think it was nearly good as it was.
With low hacking skill, you can only do very simple stuff, like press on rotate bridge buttom.
With higher hacking skills you can do more, like toggle cameras and turrets, even have time to read emails.

Still, for longer into game you must upgrade a little more on hacking to do the simple commands again.

Fen
4th May 2008, 06:36
I would like to see the hacking system be implemented like a minigame of uplink. That game was really quite simple, but managed to immerse you extremely well.

Agent Seraph
5th May 2008, 08:19
I don't like the idea of a mini-game hacking system, there will always be someone who finds it difficult and frustrating and it tends to get tedious for everyone else in the long run. There is the other extreme where it maybe too easy for some and they don't need to keep putting XP into hacking skills.

My idea would be something similar to DX1, but instead of just breaking into a login, have a list of hacks available. For example, Lvl1 Hacker can upload a virus which disable the security systems connected to that terminal for 1 minute (while the system is forced to reboot). a Lvl2 hacker could also upload a virus, with longer duration, hack to disable cameras, hack to disable turrets, or hack a login (Similar to the typical DX1 hack, but you need a user name to target). Lvl3 hacker, in addition to the Lvl2 hacks, can hack video feeds to link them to his neural interface so he can view camera feeds as he moves around (with some limitations, like one terminal for a period of time).

Gary_Savage
5th May 2008, 16:31
I beleive that you are refering to the 'root administrator'. Username Administrator, and in most cases, no pass. Unless during setup one was given..

As 'root administrator,' or root user/super user, you have


Icarus: "...complete access to your systems"

If you physically have access to a computer's box, however, you don't really need that, as you can simply press the restart button. That way, when the computer starts you can just have it boot up to a lower run level (run level one, on any UNIX-like system, has no security AFAIK), which might be something like starting MS Windows in safe mode. That's the beauty of having access to the physical box that the computer is located in; which is why IT departments keep the server room under lock and key.

I would like to see this sort of lock and key mentality in DX3. It was seen in DX1, in that the NSF (in the mission in which you sent Paul's NSF distress code) kept one of their computers in a room full of halon gas. Also, I had originally thought that Gary Savage's room computer room (the one with electric arcs, where you tried to save Daedalus from Icarus) was such a locked down server room. I would appreciate more of such places, with uncompromising security in the way, in DX3.

As for minigames for hacking, I would like to see an option at the start of the game, where the player can decide if he/she wants DX1 style hacking, or minigame style hacking.

Chemix
13th May 2008, 02:06
After playing Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, I can say that I do like the idea, in the first few levels. After that hacking becomes so difficult it's one try or reload or just plain impossible. Also, it's rather annoying to have isolated the code yet it keeps on skipping between random digits above and below the BRIGHTLY highlighted code on the list that you've just locked down. Perhaps having some sort of listing of computer addresses with a series of numbers being run through on the side in rapid order to fully match up. Ultimately, it's more of an animation than a hacking game, though there could be some interactivity to it, though the CT system just seems frustrating as it goes on and the answer is glaring you in the face, but you're not allowed to input it.

Lukewarm Soup
4th Jun 2008, 22:23
My idea, is to combine both systems; meaning that, if you have low skills, then the "way" to hack into a system should be hard! And if you got more skill points, then you hack in easily!

Now there's an idea. While I wasn't a big fan of 'plumbing' in Bioshock (refuse to call it hacking), I feel like it would work in DX because it would seem more realistic. The only important thing would be making sure that something that looks like a clever add on doesn't become a tedious minigame. But I'm all for more immersion.

Combined with the Doom3 way of interacting with computers, this would probably make me forget that I was playing a game and I'd die of starvation.

Fen
5th Jun 2008, 10:00
I dont want a minigame that is going to be challenging at all to the player, but you should definately be timed on your hacks, depending on what your hacking and what your skill is. If your hacking into someones email, chances are your not going to get the FBI tracing your hack. Hacking a high tech mainframe, ok, theyre gonna be after you.

This way, anyone with level 1 hacking skill can read emails, no problems, and they wont be booted off within a certain time limit. However as you get to more secure systems, you require to use a little bit more than just a password breaker and youll be traced by the authorities/owners of the computers.

Uplink had a system which was soo basic, but would work well in deus ex. Faced with a login screen, you use your password breaker. Faced with a proxy or firewall, you use your proxy disable/firewall disable program. Its not like it was hard, but you still felt that you were hacking somehting a little bit tougher than some housewive's home computer.

Example of how I would like to see the hacking used.

Trained hacking
- Can use password breaker
- Can hack peoples emails and view without timer
- Can Hack low level security systems (only defense being a login screen)
- Can change all settings on a low security system
- Has a medium time before being detected and booted
- Can hack a medium level security system with very short timer and limited options

Advanced hacking
- Can use password breaker and Firewall breaker
- Can hack low level security systems with long timer before being booted
- Can hack medium level security systems (systems with firewalls)
- Has medium time before being detected and booted
- Can hack high level security systems with short detection timer, and limitations on access

Master hacking
- Can use password breaker, Firewall breaker and Virus
- Can hack low level security with rediculously long timer
- Can hack medium level security with long timer
- Can hack high level security sytem (requires Virus to be uploaded after breaking password and firewall)
- Has full access in high level security systems
- Has long timer for all systems

Security systems will of course be dependant on where you are in the game. Usernames and passwords will be able to be found out through the game obivously, but some computers should only have low acess users passwords availible in the world. Therefore the person who finds the login in someones drawer can open a door using a computer, but the login he finds wont be good enough to shut down the security system around the door. Only the hacker could do that.

Hmm long post. Thanks for reading if you read it all. Tell me what you think.

Blade_hunter
5th Jun 2008, 12:19
I think to get some different level difficulties for hacking a specific computer or security console will be great.
because with the hack level 2 in DX 1 we can hack everything even if we haven't a full access (for example we can't put the security turret on our side or disable them)

A standard computer will be easy to hack and a simple training will be sufficient to get a full access on it or a mid access if some data is more secured.

A more secured computer, and security panel will be harder to hack.

I think and it's perhaps more realistic some computers to be used we must enter a password to use it. Some others are ready to use because the PC haven't it's password.
most of times we can read some data in the HDD, some data will be secured and when it's secured we must use a password or our hacking ability, or eventually an USB key with a password breaker. these usb key can hack only one password or hack the entire computer.
when used the USB key becomes useless.
Some computers can control some systems, but it's rare.
Security consoles are more secured because they are electronic. we must connect ourselves to it if we want to hack it.
we can hack it with our neuro-link like DX 1, we can use an electronic password breaker etc.
I think differentiates computers security pannels and other machines like a vending machine or the money machines are an other form of security system

we must to differentiate the hack of a computer and an other electronic device that can use an user password.
Sometimes we can find a num pad that allow us to unlock the system.

One thing is forgoted on our idea is what we can do with the first level.
Can we break a security system or a computer that make it unusable ....

Mini games or not minigames will be a great question, because when we use an hack system like DX 1 we have no real challenge except the time we can use the hacked device. In DX 2 this is only the time when we hack is reduced.
When we use a minigame that introduce a sort of realistic thing is the fact we can fail the hack, the fact we have a challenge when we hack.The main problem with minigames is the fact when we use them to hack this presents a repetition. and make every time the same minigame, will be boring and sometimes irritating for some players.

Can we keep the fact we must type a password manually or it can be automated when we find it.

It's difficult to submit an idea that agreed everyone, but i think this is very important and the idea submitted is good, a sort of enhanced form of DX 1 hacking system.
I think we can make an enhancement if the fact if we can find a password or a code in a computer it's not printed on our notes; I think it's better If these can be printed automatically.

mad_red
5th Jun 2008, 14:00
Minigames should be OPTIONAL:

1. They're completely unrelated to hacking. They're there mostly for fun.

2. They're rarely used; at most only on a select few computers that have a unique function.

3. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't make me play a minigame every time I want to touch a computer. No matter how much fun/tense/exciting they are, sooner or later I'm going to get tired of it. Replayability killer.


What I definitely want:
- remote access of low-security functions on other computers on the same network.

What I may want:
-Alarms and booby traps hidden in computers which overload your brain and bring the hammer down on your ass.
-A realistic auto-fill function. On multiple user systems you just try out a few letters and the computers fills in the rest, leaving only the password to figure out. Personal computers sometimes even have passwords provided. NO GIMMICKS: Make the player fill in the whole password/doorcodes/etc., which makes certain playstyles more time-sensitive.

What I shouldn't want:
-A complete "DX-universe internet", including news websites, bizarre conspiracy pages, chatrooms with random weirdos and bash.org quotes, some nerd's hidden porn, etc. etc.

Fen
5th Jun 2008, 17:10
Minigames are bad. They get boring and annoying.

Ive used the term wrong in most of my posts and I apologise. What I mean my minigame is that there is something more that makes me feel like im actually hacking a computer rather than just clicking a button and letting everything else do the work for you.

Im not interested in a logic puzzle or a timed memory game or something, and I will shoot myself the next time anyone makes me play one of those water pipe games again (Thanks a ******* lot Bioshock).

All Im aiming for is immersion. An idea was posted for a more immersive way to lockpick in another thread. It is brilliant. Its not like a minigame where your doing fancy things, its just something that makes the player feel like hes actually picking a lock rather than proding a metal object against a door and hoping it comes open.

All I want is to feel like I might be hacking a computer. This is what uplink managed to do amazingly well, despite it's simplicity and is why I hold it as what would be a great system in dues ex. Seriously pick it up and have a look if youve never played.

Blade_hunter
5th Jun 2008, 20:51
Depends of minigames. I agree bioshock uses it's pipes hack system too much.
these kind of system is very bad for hacking a PC.

In SS2 we have a sort of minigame with a sort of squares and we must connect three nodes to open/or get a bonus from the hacked device, if we fail we lose our nanites for nothing or sometimes explode the crate / put out of service the computer.

I agree the Rhalibus' idea presents the lockpicking with an onther and interseting form with an appearance of a minigame without to be a minigame.

I think if we use a software to hack a PC it can be realistic, or link ourself to the PC/terminal like DX is okay.

Hacking only by clicking on hack isn't very immersive I agree too.
Use a PC like a normal PC can change the form.
Something like a standard OS with icons a "desktop"

To hack a PC we can use some inside programs on ourself. or over the net.
ok we can't go to a site like a web browser, but chose the site by clicking on the address bar can be a good solution. some sites can be unaccessible to a computer and some computers aren't connected to internet, but only with a private network.
some PC's can be easy to hack, but some others need to get on our system a program evolved by ourself and our skill.
use the right program to defeat the encrypting system and enter the code can be a solution of hacking.
it's not a minigame and it's not an easy click to hack I can explain this better but it depends if someone thinks the idea is good or not.

J.CDenton
5th Jun 2008, 23:38
They should take some inspiration from Uplink. For those who don't know Uplink is a game made by introversion software where you play an anonymous hacker for the Uplink company. The game consist of navigating through a fictive computer OS and connect to a (fictive) web with dozens of corporations and differents way to hack like decyphering, password cracking, voice synthetizing, you can also use bypassers and all that stuff. The game is only 25Mb but trust me it's an awesome game to play.

I think Deus Ex shoudl STRONGLY grab several ideas from it. The game itself has a strong DW feeling (even the soundtrack reminds me DX) and since it can use a skin system, I'm actually using a Deus Ex skin which makes the computer looks like the Deus Ex style.

Here are some screenshots:

http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/uplink_lan.jpg
This one shows that you can configure LAN networks.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4896/logscreenzm7.gif
The log screen. Must pass through it to delete any tracks of your activities.

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8497/worldmapgh4.jpg
The world map allows you to connect from every points on the earth. Selct a lot of them to make you longer to be detected. This is what we call "call bouncing".

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/9220/databaseshr1.gif
You can hack databases and change profiles from a lot of peoples around the world.

So you may see what I mean. In this game there are hundred of companies to hack, dozens of way to hack a system, you can even configure your own computer, watch the (fictionnal) news on a news server, buy new hack programs or bypassing software to help you, you can connect to BBS and Chat systems. And all that just only cost 25 poor megabytes on your desk.

Now immagine they plug that in the next Deus Ex...

Try the game and you'll see what I mean.

;)

jcp28
6th Jun 2008, 02:29
That kind of system would be cool, as long as they don't put in so many details to where the hacking takes you out of the immersive experience of the rest of the game. Honestly, I don't want a ton of screens to navigate through to shut off a water-cooling system for example. It should take no more than 30 seconds to do your business and get out. After that, it starts becoming detracting.

Fen
6th Jun 2008, 07:09
That kind of system would be cool, as long as they don't put in so many details to where the hacking takes you out of the immersive experience of the rest of the game. Honestly, I don't want a ton of screens to navigate through to shut off a water-cooling system for example. It should take no more than 30 seconds to do your business and get out. After that, it starts becoming detracting.

Definately
Uplink is a great game, but we wouldnt port the entire game into deus ex. Only some aspect of it that made the game such an amazing experience.

J.CDenton
6th Jun 2008, 08:40
Yes of course, I was speaking about inspirations, instead of clicking on an "ice breaker" button we could have tools (I mean software and hardware) to make the hacking more interractive.

Blade_hunter
6th Jun 2008, 23:51
I don't know this game, but I want to submit a system perhaps far and close to a minigame.
I never think about a network configuration, but it can be useful sometimes.
I think we must have limit on it for one reason.
If all computers are networked and with a piracy action we can put the entire internet to our control it can be too easy and some things in the future part of the game makes the research of a password useless.

I don't say it said on previous posts, but it's just to say we must have a sort of limit. after all even if we are a great pirate like the num pads we can get a little limit on our piracy acts.
and the PC's we can't hack must be a well protected PC and it can be used only on a objective mission. perhaps my idea is wrong but it's not the true suggestion.

Hacking system

1/ The PC working

A PC in the game must be close to a normal PC with an OS
we have some icons in the "desktop"
we have the email software, the "computer icon", the "bean",
the text software with minimal options like the notepad on DX 1 or some forum options,
The "documents"icon,
The "network" icon to see if an other computer is on and accessible,
Perhaps a mini videogame (something like the console on SS2 or a FLASH game)
A web browser with sites on the bar.
The bar downside and some "windows" that can be used like an OS like ubuntu, windows, mac os and many others.

-To use a PC

1°-Put on the PC -If the PC is already on we can get a screensaver, a password request or the PC is ready to use

2°When the PC is on we can get a Password request or The PC can be used immediately


3°To hack the PC when we it's protected by a password, we must connect ourself or use a software to hack the PC, When the entry is broken, sometimes we have to choose the user. This choice can be important, some users are administrators and others have a restricted use of the PC, find some informations can help on this task.

4°We are on the UI we have to find the informations stored on the computer or on emails.
To find them we must go on the computer icon here we can find the drives and on these drives we can find some files / directories
The organization must be simple of course we can find the documents directory, and other software directory.
on the software directory we can find only one file, the program executor of course, sometimes we can find some useful programs to decrypt a text and the mean to uninstall the anti virus software. and some hidden informations

5° Some files are protected and we need an access code to open them. here our hacking system is useful and our decryption system too
For the e-mails we have the same we must use our programs to have an access to emails

6° when we are connected to a PC we are recognized like a storage peripheral, this allow us to download to ourself the files and decrypt them later.

7° On the network we can access to an other PC, it must be on and of course we can access to some files we must hack it on a distance if we want a full access, the bad thing is if the user of the hacked PC knows if he's computer is hacked.
We can use a timer for this and of course when the hacked user see its computer is hacked he try to find each locations with a computer.
When he find us the NPC try to make something against us.
This can put under alert the systems too like the first game, but not every time.
An home computer isn't a factory computer. The factory computer can act like the computers on DX 1 limited time connected with our hack system.

PC hack

To hack the PC we can use a software on an electronic device, but it takes a room on our inventory, or use our systems.
An home computer will be hacked with only a little time, like DX 2
A factory computer is more secured we have a time to hack it and use it.

the only difference to hack a computer when we use our ICE breaker is we must choose the program that can hack the computer.
The hack software only works with home computers because the OS softwares are public and they are easily cracked.
For the password breakers to hack industrial computers or office computers like a computer from Versalife the only way is our ICE breaker

-Software development
to develop a software we must hack a computer, when the job is done we have a software ready to use and can be used to hack a computer.
Some computers can't be hacked because our computer skill is insufficient and our programs aren't effective angainst the protection.

-Hack
1/ ICE breaker way
a) we connect ourself to the computer
b) to hack the PC we must develop an hack software the way is develop the software, it requires time and we can be detected when we do this. if the software is ready we can use it or try to develop an other sometimes our softwares can't work properly
c) choose and use the right software, some softwares are effective or not and the challenge of this system is to choose the right software
d) do our task right on time if a industrial computer is used

2/ Electronic device
this can be useful if we haven't the level 2 on the computer skill but it can hack only home computers.
a) connect the device
b) hack / chose the software if the first password is broken/ computer ready to use
c) make our task, no time limit.

We can download some files from the computer
and upload some viruses or false files.

Terminals
The terminals needs a password, to work instead of PC's we have no other way.
to hack them we must use an hack device but we have a limited control, or our ICE breaker if we have a good level we can hack the terminal and get a full control.
We can use a password finder, but they are extremely rare but they can be useful to avoid the research of the password. when the device is used we loose it and got the password on our notepad of course

To hack a terminal with our ICE breaker, we must choose the way
Short circuit the bios processor and the main processor
Short circuit the decoder and the main processor
Short circuit the decoder and the bios processor

The hack device can be a little computer, or a device used only for this task.


That's it I think my idea is good but it needs some enhancements, if someone can speak about the Uplink game system it can be useful for everyone.
I tried to make a system simple as possible but with a sort of challenge, but not a true minigame because when we have a system we can know the right way to hack it. I forgot to talk about the encryption decryption, but the main thing remains the same as password hack.
I don't talk about skill levels but the post upside isn't far as I want even if we can add some levels.
Six instead of four (I want a long game :) )

Fen
7th Jun 2008, 10:21
Sorry, but this sound labourious and annoying. I would not want this in deus ex. Simplicity must be key.

gamer0004
7th Jun 2008, 10:37
It could work... It does sound intuitve. Didn't read it all, though.

Blade_hunter
7th Jun 2008, 22:44
I wanted to detail the actions we can do to hack and the different options, but what you don't understand of this system and what part of it you dislike the most.
As think the system isn't bad but it can seem complex and I think we can make a sort of complex system with simple and accessible things, the handling must be the key to make the system simple as possible, some actions can be useless but I wanted to propose a simple mean to use a computer, a mean to differentiate them.
The fact when you have our softwares, we must chose what software is the most effective instead of clicking by a hack button.
And a fact to get a computer with the most useful options, that allows some useless option too and get close to an real computer in therms of working but with simple options.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
2nd Jul 2008, 20:31
Sorry, but this sound labourious and annoying. I would not want this in deus ex. Simplicity must be key.

There have been some good ideas put forward but I do agree that simplicity is the key, yes. :cool:

Blade_hunter
2nd Jul 2008, 21:09
Hum for me the simplicity and the easy handy can drive ourself to an equal point but one is better than the other.

If I want to define each DX game
DX 1 is easy handy and DX 2 is simplicity
One is easy access to complexity, and the other is the simplicity.
I don't know if I can say exactly what I think about it and the game, but I can give one good example for one thing in other games

-The weapon customization

The first game with a true weapon customization in real time, was:
Gunman chronicles

The last game with this feature is Crysis.

And what is the best system ? I think it's the Crysis system and why, because the Crysis system is more handy, more easy to use than the gunman system.
When we configure a weapon in Gunman generally we take more time than Crysis.
I say generally because some weapons in gunman have only one parameter to change, but the weapons with multiple parameters are harder to configure.

Thats the reason I say handle (but i think I should use the word handy) instead of simplicity.

Use simple systems allows simple content to stay easy to use.
Use handy systems allows rich content with an easy access to this content.

I don't want simple content like DX 2 I want a rich content with an easy access to it like DX 1.
Some games with rich content wasn't a success because the access to this content is difficult. I don't know if the game Battlecruiser millenium can be a good example.
Some games uses bad interfaces and even if the game isn't very complex the interface makes the game complex.
I hope I use the right words this time and I say what I think about the fact I prefer rich content with an easy access to it than a simple content that is easy to use because we have a low amount of content.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
3rd Jul 2008, 00:05
Yeah, when I said 'simplicity' I meant rich content/cool choices... but with an easy-to-use interface; not complicated to the point of having to waste time selecting sub menus, add-on menus and the like.
With that in mind, I found the original game close to 'perfect', personally :cool:

Blade_hunter
3rd Jul 2008, 00:58
The first game was the best game ever made even if it has some defaults, but I wanted to create a sort of hacking / and PC use system close to the reality without some complex and totally useless things instead of a just click by a hack button.
I never know why the system is laborious for example, perhaps he thinks the same as you, and the fact we must navigate into menus is more annoying than amazing.
I want to make a better system, I don't play the hack game mentioned before.

My system allows some possibilities instead of the DX system, like the fact we can find different kind of files for example.
In DX we have only text files, with my system we can find audio files, video files, encrypted text, etc.
And those files can contain codes and we can imagine situations with this kind of data to find codes.

I perhaps never proposed this if no one wanted an other system than an Hack button
My system wants to be a sort of close to reality use of a computer without to be a minigame like flash games ....

Kevyne-Shandris
3rd Jul 2008, 01:12
My system allows some possibilities instead of the DX system

Then it's not DX. This is a cyberpunk game, and hacking and cracking is part and parcel with that world. That means you'll play with menus; have to get into things with passwords or resort to hacking and cracking.

Get to know the game better, then you'll see why it's not something to ignore, it's even the reason DX is DX.

Blade_hunter
3rd Jul 2008, 10:01
It's a part like all other things I don't want hacking make too much time but I propose like others a not clicking only by a single hack button, but make some actions before it.
I wanted to add a sort of variety on the hack, and the proposal by the game mentioned before is one example.
DX is DX and I know why this game was a success.
I wanted to propose something a diversification of DX system, not because the system could be too "simple", no because an expansion innovation is welcome.
I don't say my proposal is the right response to evolve the DX computer use system, but It's not because DX is DX that would say we mustn't change some parts of the game.
I don't think this kind of feature will change the core of the game.
My proposal like some previous is to give the impression that we hack the computer.

But I prefer to ask the question

You prefer hack or use a computer with an access to mails only or a low amount of special actions, or use a computer in the game that can be close to a real computer with a simple use ?

The question is not about my system or others just to know if you want have the impression you are hacking the computer or not.

Do you want minigames to make this ?
A simple action button ?
A thing tha allows you to make actions without to be a minigame ?
Other ?

Kevyne-Shandris
3rd Jul 2008, 10:11
The minigames should be for the more hardcore players. Those who can't spend more than 2 minutes in a menu it's not suited for. Nor building weapons and augs, let alone reading a paragraph, forget a chapter on some datacube or book.

But for those who are fans and like such things, this is an excellent way to do something else. For modders it also gives them more options in their mods (would love to see a hacker/cracker delight mod -- just no payloads guys!!...lol).

chip5541
3rd Jul 2008, 11:48
You know for the consoles it would be interesting to integrate the PS3 camera or 360 camera into a hacking mini game.

gamer0004
3rd Jul 2008, 15:32
Camera?

Blade_hunter
3rd Jul 2008, 19:55
Hum what kind of minigames ? and if we have a webcam in a PC it could be the same, no ?

I don't propose this kind of stuff; but if the consoles can use their cams, the PC's can use their webcams too.