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imported_van_HellSing
12th Dec 2007, 23:29
http://web.archive.org/web/20001119120000/http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdr.cgi?zones/reviews/pc/jun00/deusex.html

rundown:


Whether you like Deus Ex has a lot to do with where your priorities are. Do you just want to play a secret agent no matter how flat his personality? Do you get tickled hearing about loopy conspiracies as if they were even remotely plausible? Are you happy shooting enemies dumber than Doom demons by the dozen? Do you enjoy twiddling RPG-ish attributes with a vague sense that it doesn't really matter? Are you blissfully oblivious to clich�s, convoluted meandering stories, diffuse settings, and erratic pacing? Do you thrill at the prospect of playing an action hero who also has to be a stingy quartermaster? Is your neck strong enough to handle any potential whiplash from the stuttering framerates caused by level designers with no sense for how many polygons their engine can reasonably handle? Are you willing to go beyond the mere suspension of disbelief? Are you wiling to hang it from the neck until dead?

If the answer to many of these questions is 'yes', then queue the "Mission Impossible" theme (spare yourself the game's generic soundtrack) and boot up Deus Ex.

What's funny is that imho all of this is actually true, but I love DX regardless.

Laputin Man
13th Dec 2007, 00:15
I don't really agree with any of that. What does it matter if the conspiracies are plausible or not... they are conspiracies and it is a game and not a history lesson. The enemy AI wasn't the greatest but it is far from being dumber than that of Doom's. The RPG elements did matter a good deal. The story was the best part of Deus Ex, has this reviewer not heard of the plot twist?


But at least I can laugh at this review knowing that this game has won more awards than you can shake a stick at. And is also known for its great gameplay and story. So to quote another forum member here... that review is WRONG WRONG WRONG!

imported_van_HellSing
13th Dec 2007, 00:35
I don't really agree with any of that. What does it matter if the conspiracies are plausible or not... they are conspiracies and it is a game and not a history lesson.

Of course the conspiracies don't have to be historically accurate. It's just that the ones in DX are rather badly thought out. If you want interesting conspiracy fiction, you might want to read Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Uco. Compare the plot of this novel (and the various conspiracies presented) to that of DX, and, well, there's no comparison really.


The enemy AI wasn't the greatest but it is far from being dumber than that of Doom's.

Of course, that was exagerration. But do read the corresponding paragraph of the review, there are some good examples of the AI's stupidity (all true).


The RPG elements did matter a good deal.

With this I might agree, having played the game multiple times with different specialties.


The story was the best part of Deus Ex, has this reviewer not heard of the plot twist?

What plot twist? Everything was actually laid out in the game's intro, ffs.


But at least I can laugh at this review knowing that this game has won more awards than you can shake a stick at.

So did Bioshock. And I would hardly count it to my "favourite games evah" list. Hype, my friend, hype.

All in all, I suppose this review concentrates on the negatives too much, and misses the point: no matter how many bad points the game had, for some reason it just worked.

I can't describe it myself. During my first playthrough, I noticed just about every flaw of the game that the reviewer mentioned, but at the end of the day I felt it was a fantastic experience despite the flaws.

Laputin Man
13th Dec 2007, 01:06
Of course the conspiracies don't have to be historically accurate. It's just that the ones in DX are rather badly thought out. If you want interesting conspiracy fiction, you might want to read Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Uco. Compare the plot of this novel (and the various conspiracies presented) to that of DX, and, well, there's no comparison really.



Of course, that was exagerration. But do read the corresponding paragraph of the review, there are some good examples of the AI's stupidity (all true).



With this I might agree, having played the game multiple times with different specialties.



What plot twist? Everything was actually laid out in the game's intro, ffs.


All in all, I suppose this review concentrates on the negatives too much, and misses the point: no matter how many bad points the game had, for some reason it just worked.

I can't describe it myself. During my first playthrough, I noticed just about every flaw of the game that the reviewer mentioned, but at the end of the day I felt it was a fantastic experience despite the flaws.



But did you not play any other FPS or RPG in that era? They damn near all had similar problems that he mentioned. Barrels and crates sitting around everywhere? That is one of gaming's oldest cliches... they are still used too often in games that are being made in this generation. Also the thing about having both hands on the rifle while climbing a ladder.. that was in a lot of games at the time. This man just nit picked at any little tiny detail he could find. As to comparing this game's story to that of a novels... you are comparing apples and oranges. Gaming as a media is more comparable to that of a movie not a novel. And for a game it had an incredible story.


And as for everything being laid out in the intro... in the intro they were no specifics, what they were talking about was a bit cryptic. It was a bit of foreshadowing. When I played through the game it never hit me, when I went to play through a second time I saw that.. oh wow, they were kind of talking about events to come. They did not reveal everything at all though. And the conspiracy theories they had in the game are peices of some what well known conspiracies that they incorporated into the story. I think that was pretty clever because while I played through the game I had this odd feeling of deja vu or that I have kind of heard of one of these organizations before. I don't know if that is what they intended for the player but it was kind of neat regardless.

humbug
13th Dec 2007, 03:18
Wow this guy really doesn't like Deus Ex.

One of my favourite things about Deus Ex, is going on loot hunts. Only tonight I discovered that you could get onto the roof tops near Maggies appartment in Hong Kong- fantastic.

As for the RPG system- of course it matters! I don't understand how he came to that conclusion. :scratch:

Stuttering frame rates? Nope can't say I've come across any problems in the frame rate department.

As for the AI being dum, well they aren't the most advanced AI. But at the end of the day one of the main features in Deus Ex is about stealth and to be able to 'disappear'. I mean quite often you hear the AI say "They say this guy can just disappear". I guess thats why you can easily evade the guards!

All in all I don't agree with anything this guy says- maybe he didn't understand the game. :lol:

JoeGreensKiller
13th Dec 2007, 08:12
Now Now, lets be fair here..I addore DX, BUT its not for everyone, it does take patience, and if you love to just kill things...then I can see DX being frusterating, and im not meaning this to insult anyone. It does take some intellect, and at some parts of the game you really do need to be clever. Sure theres ""flaws" I mean anything about a game we dont like, or agree with could be consdiered "a flaw"..."I did'nt conserve my ammo, and died!!!" Damm game is flawed lol Guys Im totally just pokeing fun, but in all fairness DX is'nt for everyone, and everyone has a fav game, and, a fav type of game. I don't agree with the man completely, but respect his opinion...cheers:)

professen
3rd Jan 2008, 19:11
And as the game goes on, and I'm presented with cliche after cliche, the illusion dies on the vine. Crates. Keys. Looting the dead. A magic sword. Sewers. Spiders. Mana. Fake doors. NPC merchants. Fed Ex missions. Enemies whose weapons vanish when I kill them. The hard-coded plot point when I get captured and all my stuff is taken away. A world where everyone's talking about four-digit keypad codes. Secret passwords left on desktops for all to see.

Mad or something?

Spiderbots are a fairly easy way to make a bot walk.

Electro Energy is surely no mana. It could be compared, but how the hell should Augmentations work without energy?

Fake doors... no sure... the designer should have build the complete city with every room accesable. No wait... than THAT GUY would complain even more about looting

NPC Merchants must be realy bad... I mean. Why didn't they put in merchants controlled by other players? :lol:

Nope, no Fed Ex Missions

Nope, I did not get captured a single time

Nope, the weapons do not vanish

And yeah, i have my bank account lying on my desktop... because i don't think that anybody will break into this house. Many people think like that.


I think the author just wants to piss some people off... his complains don't even make any sense...

I mean... he keeps on complaining that every aspect appeared in an other game... yeah... like AI an Scientiests and Drugs. No these are really uncommen for a possible future in 2052. :scratch:

And he describes framerate problems i HAVE NEVER EVER had!


He complains that there are too few people on the street and then he complains, that the game gives an explaination for it.

And mocking about gunplay... my favourite char uses prod and sword. U don't need to fight all the time.

And I always had nearly full energy cell stock(30). So I could always use cloak(and cloak for security cameras and bots) or combat strength when needed.


I think the guy who wrote this review just wanted to see how people react.

AgentSmithereens
3rd Jan 2008, 19:35
Mike Smith is a prat.

vecima
3rd Jan 2008, 20:05
this stinks of the review of a completely unrefined gamer.

have fun with unreal tournament or quake 4 or any other generic half crapped shooter.

Red
3rd Jan 2008, 21:56
Nope, I did not get captured a single time

Are you sure you're talking about the same game?

imported_van_HellSing
3rd Jan 2008, 21:56
Nope, I did not get captured a single time

O RLY? How about the bit where you get captured by Gunther & co. and have to escape from the MJ12 facility beneath UNATCO? (Though I have to admit, that was much more fun then Residue Processing in Half-Life.)


Nope, the weapons do not vanish

Ever tried stuff like prodding Kaplan to get his stuff?. No go.

Dave W
4th Jan 2008, 01:13
The RPG elements did matter a good deal.

I agree, but only because without the skills system JC is completely and utterly useless. He can't even hold a rifle without his hand flying all over the place - even I can hold a rifle better than that!

Kneo24
4th Jan 2008, 01:36
Does it really matter what this guy has to say? This review is ancient.

Dave W
4th Jan 2008, 01:54
have fun with unreal tournament

You know what? I will, thank you. I'll go and play UT3 right now and have a bloody good time (unless it's CTF or the awful new Onslaught-type game mode).

DXeXodus
12th Feb 2008, 05:22
Blasphemy! Bah!

Taking a pot shot at a game like this is understandable, but not if you look at almost every game of that time. Deus Ex was leaps and bounds above the rest. It had some major flaws, but still had that something that made it special.

Reviewers like that just annoy me... they only see the bad in a game and if they say anything good its only a sarcastic remark like 'If you look past the 100% crapness then its great!'

:mad2:

lightbringerrr
27th Feb 2008, 06:06
Speaking of DX 1, is actor Ronny Cox the guy who does Bob Page's dialouge?

SageSavage
27th Feb 2008, 07:16
Speaking of DX 1, is actor Ronny Cox the guy who does Bob Page's dialouge?No, that was Cliff Stephens according to IMDB.
- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286585/fullcredits#cast

Caradoc
27th Feb 2008, 13:45
Do you just want to play a secret agent no matter how flat his personality?

This is maybe the most absurd claim I've ever heard! Flat personality? He couldn't be more wrong. Alex had no personality what so ever, jc on the other hand was a very strong personality. What the heck has this guy been smoking?



Do you get tickled hearing about loopy conspiracies as if they were even remotely plausible?

Conspiracy theories were part of the game's unique charm. Sure in the real world they don't sound or feel plausible, but in the deus ex world they were plausible. If one judges game like that..well hardly anything that can be seen in games would be 'plausible".




Are you happy shooting enemies dumber than Doom demons by the dozen?

Shooting is only a one solution, but yeah game's a.i wasn't the smartest thing on the block.


Do you enjoy twiddling RPG-ish attributes with a vague sense that it doesn't really matter?

Don't matter? vague sense? How can it be more real-like than it is in the game. If you raise your pistol skill, you become a better shooter with pistols. If you raise your swimming skill you swim faster etc. Similar thing in real life, if you want to become really good in something you need to practise, practise and practise. Skills and experience points simulate the learning process. Besides its fun and a core part of any rpg. If there would be no skills, or vague rpg atributes..well everyone would end up playing exactly same kind of character.




(spare yourself the game's generic soundtrack)

Generic soundtrack..jeez..oh well..taste for good music is not something i'd like to argue about.

HamburgerBoy
28th Feb 2008, 03:51
The guy probably wrote the review thinking 'Hey, another game from the makers from Daikatana! I'm going to be the first to bash it!'

lightbringerrr
29th Feb 2008, 04:36
(spare yourself the game's generic soundtrack) and boot up Deus Ex.

I would hardly call any piece or pieces of music that were written or co-written by Tin Machine/Bowie guitarist Reeves Gabriels generic.

The music was a big and very cool part of the original game. I can hear those pieces without any video, and tell you EXACTLY where JC is currently standing.
The only thing that was kind of lame and comical, was when you were spotted or started shooting, you were all of a sudden transported to some Euro-Rave / Techno Polka, where the beat was all BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM! :nut: :lol: :nut: :lol:

lightbringerrr
29th Feb 2008, 05:00
Shooting is only a one solution, but yeah game's a.i wasn't the smartest thing on the block.

As I posted at DX1 clip on You Tube:

You haven't LIVED until you've played Lightbringerrr's patented "Deus Ex: Bloodbath"!!!

The rules are simple; go in to Godmode and shoot EVERYTHING THAT MOVES!
It's hilarious, and the conversation cutscenes, with anyone and EVERYONE riddling you with ammo as you have a nice, calm conversation with whomever, will leave you in a fit of pants-pissing laughter! :lmao:

IcarusIsLookingForYou
3rd Mar 2008, 07:10
I can't stand reviewers like this douche. He thinks he's so witty with his quick quips, but all he comes off as is annoying and arrogant. I'm sure he hasn't gotten anywhere in his games journalism career with unprofessional BS like this. I don't see how any gamer, with the exception of the Halo kiddies, could not at the very least be impressed by DX.

WildcatPhoenix
3rd Mar 2008, 15:19
As an avid fan of both Deus and Halo, I disagree with the sentiment that you cannot appreciate cerebral games like DX as well as adrenaline rides like Call of Duty or Halo. They are completely different styles of games, and I for one love both...although I must admit, Deus Ex occupies my #1 game of all time slot, while Halo probably sits somewhere around #5 or 6.

I don't know who pissed in this reviewer's cornflakes, but I think we all agree (and critical consensus supports the fact) that Deus Ex was a landmark game and a true masterpiece. As stated before, nearly all FPS games of the late '90s/early '00s suffered from the same flaws.

Then again, no game can please everyone. I've been told time and time again that Final Fantasy VII is one of the greatest games ever made, but that doesn't change the fact that the style of the game doesn't appeal to me.

Maybe this guy just has different taste from us. Either way, I think he's nuts. :nut:

-Wildcat

IcarusIsLookingForYou
3rd Mar 2008, 17:20
As an avid fan of both Deus and Halo, I disagree with the sentiment that you cannot appreciate cerebral games like DX as well as adrenaline rides like Call of Duty or Halo. They are completely different styles of games, and I for one love both...although I must admit, Deus Ex occupies my #1 game of all time slot, while Halo probably sits somewhere around #5 or 6.

To me it's not an issue of cerebral games being better than adrenaline rides. I think there are plenty of Rambo-style shoot-em-ups that are excellent. I just happen to think Halo isn't a very good one, or at least not as good as everyone happens to think it is. I definitely wouldn't put it on the same level as COD4, which deserves all of the accolades it has received. After playing COD4's multiplayer, I just can't see myself going back to Halo's lame grenadefest.

WildcatPhoenix
3rd Mar 2008, 19:18
I'll agree with you that CoD4 was better than Halo. I'm a Halo junkie, and I was completely caught off guard by how much more I enjoy CoD4 than Halo 3 (a game I stood in line for over two hours for on opening night).

I think a big issue that we may be forgetting is that Deus Ex, like Knights of the Old Republic or even Half-Life, is a primarily single player game. These are becoming far more rare (which, in my opinion, is very unfortunate). The Halo series is much more renowned for its multiplayer than its single player.

I just hope DX3 has the depth of the single player element that the original had. I can hop online and mindlessly chuck grenades at profane, loudmouthed ten year olds any time I want, but a great story with epic music and fully developed characters? Those are pretty special.

-Wildcat

IcarusIsLookingForYou
3rd Mar 2008, 21:37
I just hope DX3 has the depth of the single player element that the original had. I can hop online and mindlessly chuck grenades at profane, loudmouthed ten year olds any time I want, but a great story with epic music and fully developed characters? Those are pretty special.

-Wildcat

I second that, Wildcat. COD4's multiplayer is boss, but I tore through the single player campaign overnight. Halo 3's didn't take much longer. In the case of DX3, if the devs had to completely sacrifice a multiplayer component in order to make the single player amazing, then I'd say the sacrifice is well worth it.

lightbringerrr
5th Mar 2008, 17:33
No, that was Cliff Stephens according to IMDB.
- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286585/fullcredits#cast

Thanks! He sure does SOUND like Ronny though!

"Hello (D)ickie-Boy"!

Freddo
6th Mar 2008, 03:42
Eh, I think the first Deus Ex is one of the best games ever, but I still find some of the points from the reviewer to be very valid.

The AI was very stupid, and also giving up far to early. Warren Spector also admitted this and said in a Gamespy interview that they were working on a major AI patch (which unfortunately was never released).

There were some serious performance issues with the game on computers 8 years ago, if it was played in Direct3D instead of Glide. Of course, today it doesn't matter cause the computers are several times more powerful than back then.

JC do have a flat personality. He's very neutral in every sense. Which was intended by Warren Spector so the player gets immersed and *IS* JC. It's with player actions he become something else than neutral. Not something bad, I think.

As for the cyberpunk setting and conspiracies taken the extreme story route, even if somewhat predictable, I don't care. For me it's an highly enjoyable part of the game, but it's all subjective and if the reviewer didn't like it, so be it. His loss.