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joseph5891
11th Dec 2007, 17:32
this is what i did in Biology. i started using my laptop to take notes using OneNote, but i quickly realized that the class was so boring and easy, there were better uses of my time. after checking all the webcomics that could entertain me, i got the idea to write a new list of deus ex weapons they could put into DX3.

then lo and behold - they're making DX3.

i based the ideas off of the return of skills, and the 5 weapon classes (pistol, rifle, heavy, low-tech, and demo). a lot of it is...incoherent, but it's just for fun (however, on the off, off, off chance that someone from the dev team gets some ideas from this, i would gladly give up all rights to these ideas just to see them put into the game.) also, a lot of these reference real-life weapons, but these are more guidlines than specific guns i'd like to see in the game (for example, i cite the m1911 for a old-timer, classic pistol, and the USP for a more high-tech pistol, but not actually the exact models themselves)

Weapons
• Pistols (at least twelve definite) (note that most pistols will have hollow point and full jacket rounds.)

§ .20 Ruger Match Pistol
§ snub-nosed revolver
§ generic 9mm
§ ppk 9mm
§ m1911 .45
§ USP 40
§ Magnum Revolver (maybe 44mag for Dirty Harry, or is .500 SW too much?
§ Desert Eagle
§ Micro Uzi
§ Glock 18c
§ Tranq pistol
§ Grappling hook
§ Boltcaster


□ tranq rounds? (could replace tranq gun)
□ tracker rounds
□ bugs
□ shock rounds? (could replace TASER)

§ TASER
• Rifles

§ Mp5 (fires pistol rounds)
§ Submachine gun that fires rifle rounds (maybe based off MP7)
§ AK-47
§ M4
§ AUG (note - would have 1 and 3 round burst selection, scope, available silencer. it would be designed to be more like a DM rifle. would like to keep the unique look and bullpup config)

§ Sniper Rifle


□ bolt action, and very loud. meant only for long distance engagements.

§ Some advanced style of rifle, like the OICW
§ ?maybe some cheapo-type smg?
§ sawed-off shotgun (pump action, keeping hand grip and pump, requiring two hands)

§ police shotgun


□ buckshot
□ flechettes? (maybe more armor piercing)
□ slugs (defintely more armor piercing, but not as effective as AP rifle rounds)
□ less-lethal rounds? (rubber bullets, pepper balls, bean bags)

§ assault shotgun
§ crossbow
§ 50 caliber rifle (50 BMG? another sniper rifle? - either way, meant to deal w/light armor)
§ grenade launcher
§ ?tranq rifle?
§ some sort of multi-ordinance launcher (pepper balls, gas grenades, ripoff of Splinter Cell)


□ ? incorporate into another gun?
□ ?incorporate with grenade launcher?

§ ?some type of directed energy rifle? maybe a Rail Gun?
• Heavy

§ some type of light machine gun (SAW, the rambo gun, somethin)
§ chain gun
§ cheapo scope-sight rocket launcher
§ high tech rocket launcher with tracking capabilities, bells, whistles, etc
§ flamethrower
§ some plasma gun, (something that shoots superheated projectiles that are great against heavy armor)
§ ?maybe some super directed energy cannon?
• Thrown/placed (some could be used in launcher)

§ frag grenade
§ flashbomb
§ emp mine/grenade
§ pipe bomb


□ one thing that I have to mention - some of the upgrades to weapons would be hi-tech, designer upgrades (like scopes, laser sights, hand grips, etc) while some would be street (like drilling holes in the barrel for a makeshift compensator, sawing off the butt/barrel, hellfire triggers, etc). the pipe bomb would only have "street" upgrades (being a makeshift weapon) and the only good one I've come up with so far is this - wrap it in barbed wire, making more fragments. bad. ass.

§ molotov
§ gas grenade
§ tracker bug
§ prox/timed mine
§ ?bottle of ether?
• Melee (plus bows, throwing knives, etc)

§ combat knife
§ switchblade/butterfly knife
§ throwing knives, or shurikens
§ expanding baton
§ nightstick (maybe too similar to expanding baton, but it's ability to be wielded like a tonfa kicks too much ass. as well, we want to keep the expanding baton for its concealability)
§ pepper spray
§ stun stick
§ brass knuckles
§ crowbar
§ sword (maybe katanna, but that's really cliché now)
§ energy sword


□ maybe a special hidden version that doesn't project light, same damage capacity, but stealthier

§ compound bow.


□ maybe this belongs in rifles, I don’t know. all I know is that I have always wanted to play a game that let me use a compound bow (not a crossbow, a COMPOUND BOW) and they never have. even games that let me use regular bows (usually period pieces) have never gotten the feel of the bow right.

§ maybe some more olden-type melee weapons? axe, bo, sai? too ninja-turtle-esque?

• Weapon Mods (note - unlike the DX1 and 2 mods, these will alter the gun's appearance. you add a scope, then the weapon now has a scope on it. also, there will, in general, not be one-size-fits all mods. while this will greatly increase the number of mods, we can compensate for that by having vendors and shops carry more than three items at a time. could also have shops provide customizations for you.

○ silencer - different silencers for pistols, smg's, assault rifles, and sniper rifles. only available for automatic single-slug firearms (i.e., not for revolvers, shotguns, the boltcaster, rocket launchers, etc.)


§ street version made with a tube/can and stuffed with steel wool

○ extended clip - mainly meant for pistols. (one clip fits all? that was kinda lame on DX1, but don't want to make game to complicated)


§ a street mod would be taped double clips for rifles and smg's

○ compensator - different models for pistols, smgs, rifles. decreases recoil, slightly decreases noise (but does not allow silencer).


§ a "street" version consists of holes drilled in the barrel, with reduced power and accuracy

○ long barrel - probably different ones for different individual weapons. decreased recoil, increased power and accuracy. increases space required in inventory

○ bipod - meant for sniper rifles. allows you to "mount" the gun on the ground when prone, or on a ledge when standing, greatly increasing accuracy.

○ handgrip - meant for SMG's (not the machine pistol) and assault rifles. greatly decreases recoil, while slightly decreasing accuracy and increasing encumbrance.
○ scope - available for most rifle class weapons and maybe the big revolver.
○ NV sight - like a scope, but allows NV. probably less magnification than a standard scope.
○ laser sight - not really that much use in a game that has HUD crosshairs, but looks cool. (could probably translate for the effect of a real-life laser by increasing accuracy moderately, while possibly making enemies aware of your presence. )
○ flashlight - it's a flashlight. this would probably be preferable to light mod, because the light mod isn't realistic, and would be better replaced by an NV mod (and one that actually freakin works, that doesn't just turn the screen green)
○ titanium firing pin - allows faster firing
○ flash suppressor - both makes it for enemies to see the gunfire, and decreases the flash in your eyes. (the game really needs a light sensitive system - that blooms in bright light, and takes time for your vision to adjust to dark light. this would allow for nanoaugs and weaponmods like this to compensate)
○ hellfire trigger - street mod, increases firing rate, at the same time increasing recoil rate
○ sawed off barrel or stock - street mod (may be used to replace the sawed-off, or make your own) SO barrel decreases power and accuracy but increases spread, SO stock decreases accuracy and increases recoil, but both decrease encumbrance, maybe increase firing rate
○ folding/telescoping stock - increases draw time, but decreases encumbrance.

Keir
11th Dec 2007, 17:42
Welcome to the forums :thumbsup:

That certainly is quite a comprehensive list.

joseph5891
11th Dec 2007, 19:07
the best part? i still aced biology :D

JoeGreensKiller
11th Dec 2007, 21:08
I cloaking device could be interesting, I relize it not a weapon per say, but just a thought.

pKp
11th Dec 2007, 21:42
One great thing with Deus Ex was the weapon mods. I'd really like to see it more realistic, a la Crysis, with replacable parts. Only with more type of rounds.
Also, we clearly need to keep the wrist-crossbow, because it is just too cool to be abandoned. Explosive darts ?

Also, I'd like to see one of the things I liked most in Splinter Cell : camera-bullets with the ability to make noise, thus attracting the enemy.

WhatsHisFace
11th Dec 2007, 21:46
One great thing with Deus Ex was the weapon mods. I'd really like to see it more realistic, a la Crysis, with replacable parts. Only with more type of rounds.
Also, we clearly need to keep the wrist-crossbow, because it is just too cool to be abandoned. Explosive darts ?

Also, I'd like to see one of the things I liked most in Splinter Cell : camera-bullets with the ability to make noise, thus attracting the enemy.

Weapon Mods should be permanent. I loved the idea of consequence in Deus Ex, where you had to stick with your Biomod Augmentations and Weapon Mods. Deus Ex: Invisible War did away with that and it ruined the idea of Role Playing. :mad2:

JoeGreensKiller
11th Dec 2007, 22:00
Weapon Mods should be permanent. I loved the idea of consequence in Deus Ex, where you had to stick with your Biomod Augmentations and Weapon Mods. Deus Ex: Invisible War did away with that and it ruined the idea of Role Playing. :mad2:
LMAO Invisable War did away with a lot of things...I wish it would've stayed Invisable lol....This new one I have a feeling should have been what Invisable War tried to be.

WhatsHisFace
11th Dec 2007, 22:04
LMAO Invisable War did away with a lot of things...I wish it would've stayed Invisable lol....This new one I have a feeling should have been what Invisable War tried to be.
I believe the team -- as everyone else does -- knows that Deus Ex: Invisible War was a disappointment and for what reasons.

I think that's the reason why they're doing this game to begin with. To make Deus Ex what it used to be. The high-sales of Bioshock show that people want depth and insight in their games. I doubt they're aiming for another disappointment.

joseph5891
12th Dec 2007, 14:43
I cloaking device could be interesting, I relize it not a weapon per say, but just a thought.

not a weapon, but equipment is something that i would like to see return to DX3

also, as awesome as it was, DX1 had some flaws. One of them was that the implementation of different gameplay elements was done in the same way. All of the equipment worn with the Environmental skill basically just had different time limits that were extended by improving said skill - even a ballistic vest! i mean, here, 40 years in the past we still have the technology to create body armor that lasts longer than 30 seconds. so i was thinking - make things like body armor and the hazmat mask only use up resource when they absorb damage (this would be explained by the body armor getting torn up as enemies shoot it, or the filters of the hazmat getting clogged with chemicals.)

as far as a cloaking device (like the thermoptic camo of DX1) goes, it makes sense that it would be a powered device that would quickly run out of juice. but would it be an internal power source that would burn itself out after one use, or could you recharge it? of course, there would have to be some heavy cost for using/recharging it.

another problem is that the invisiblity augs (i say augs, not mods) and thermoptic camo were kind of cheap. you could basically just run past your enemies with no problem, or set up the perfect ambush. even with the weapons-fire deactivation element introduced in DX2, it was still pretty easy to get in a perfect position and take out an enemy, run away, recloak, and come back for his buddies. maybe they should introduce varying degrees of invisibility - like at low levels, enemies can still spot you at medium distances, or in decent lighting. at higher leves, they could only spot you as you got closer, or as the lights got brighter. they could also introduce some enemies that wouldn't be fooled by invisbility, such as security systems that are activated by sound, or dogs or transgens that could track you by scent. IDEA - a bat transgen that can hunt you down in zero light. the level designers could place swarms of them in dark corners and alcoves, and they would then ambush you.

you know, i'm starting to think that we could use whole new threads for new ideas for enemies, equipement, and nanoaugs.

Keir
12th Dec 2007, 14:45
the best part? i still aced biology :D


Haha! :D

SageSavage
12th Dec 2007, 17:59
I'd love to see something simillar to the weapon mod interface in Crysis. Not only for the weapon mods (eg scope/pointer and ammo types) but also for the augs and the health system. It's very easy to use and doesn't interrupt the immersion while leaving all the choices to the player. I'd also like to see permanent modifications like a grenade launcher, more capacity or recoil reduction.

On a side note:
I hope they don't look too close at Bioshock, because it was an disappointment when you hoped for something like System Shock 2. Just like what IW was when you hoped for something like DX1.

WhatsHisFace
12th Dec 2007, 18:31
I'd love to see something simillar to the weapon mod interface in Crysis. Not only for the weapon mods (eg scope/pointer and ammo types) but also for the augs and the health system. It's very easy to use and doesn't interrupt the immersion while leaving all the choices to the player. I'd also like to see permanent modifications like a grenade launcher, more capacity or recoil reduction.

On a side note:
I hope they don't look too close at Bioshock, because it was an disappointment when you hoped for something like System Shock 2. Just like what IW was when you hoped for something like DX1.
Bioshock was a spiritual successor. In some ways it didn't live up to System Shock 2 and in others it surpassed it, but Bioshock as a new IP didn't promise or need to out-do anything. It's a new IP and I thought it's a great start.

But yeah, System Shock 2 is great. As long as your weapons aren't breaking all the time.

SageSavage
12th Dec 2007, 19:02
I wrote this sidenote you're quoting in reply to your

The high-sales of Bioshock show that people want depth and insight in their games. not just to pick on Bioshock. Gameplaywise it was far less complex than I hope DX3 to become and the same goes for the depth. Bioshock had brilliant moments as well as great disappointments (imo) but that's another story. I just hope that nobody makes it the new rolemodel for "depth and insight".

The topic was "Weapon Ideas", so let's move on... ;)

Dave W
12th Dec 2007, 19:29
Weapon Mods should be permanent. I loved the idea of consequence in Deus Ex, where you had to stick with your Biomod Augmentations and Weapon Mods. Deus Ex: Invisible War did away with that and it ruined the idea of Role Playing. :mad2:
Uh, you can't undo weapon mods and they limited it to two per weapon, forcing your choice of weapon mods to be even more precise. Unlike Deus Ex where you could shove loads of upgrades onto the same weapon. :rolleyes:

On the weapon list - whenever the game is set, as long as it's not within the next 20 years that list is essentially useless. Firearms move on all the time.

Loneranger
12th Dec 2007, 22:23
Maybe they should introduce varying degrees of invisibility - like at low levels, enemies can still spot you at medium distances, or in decent lighting. at higher levels, they could only spot you as you got closer, or as the lights got brighter.



The whole idea about lighting is really good. I think that again like splinter cell you should be able to shoot out lights, or at least be able to turn more off and for that to have an effect on the environment and how well you can be seen .etc.
The weapons post was really good and in depth. I think that .500 S&W is a bit much, but maybe you could get more than one pistol, like with the normal and red greasel guns in IW. I think that the Idea of having 2 types of gun for each category would be good though. If you were to ask me which guns I would choose though, it'd have to be:

Pistols:
Beretta 92FS as the regular 9mm,
The Taurus Raging Bull as the powerful one OR a Desert Eagle (.50AE of course).

SMG:
Mac 11
UMP 45

Shotgun:
Some ol' farmyard double barrel (Lol)
A higher grade combat shotgun of some sort like a Spas 12

Sniper Rifle:
Steyr Scout
Then an auto-cocking rifle, I mean you may call me a n00b for saying so, but I think it'd be a good idea.

Heavy:
Light machine gun of some sort, e.g. M249 Para
Experimental government weapon, such as a concentrated energy weapon, or a prototype of a more common weapon that is in the series, as the game has been hinted as a prequel, or just any old high energy weapon :P.

I think that the idea of different kinds of rounds, like in fallout, are a good idea, e.g. JHP, FMJ, And AP, and also each gun in each category stated above should have upsides and downsides to each gun, e.g. The Desert Eagle is much more powerful than the beretta 92FS, but the desert eagle cannot be silenced, and fires much slower with a smaller clip.

Thanks if you didn't just think TL;DR! :P
Oh! And if you have no idea about some of the stuff I'm talking about, then PM me or look it up on wikipedia.

-Loneranger

StormFront
12th Dec 2007, 22:41
To the OP:

Impressive list, but those weapons have zero to do with Deus Ex.

The chance of DX3 being a prequal are nill to the power of my overdraft so this game will be set a good distance in the future. All the weapons you are talking about are very basic and outdated even for now. Why on earth would they be involved in a a game like this?

Beyond that, having al this add-ons, mods and other tat would be a right pain and would detract from the gameplay....

Laputin Man
12th Dec 2007, 23:07
To the OP:

Impressive list, but those weapons have zero to do with Deus Ex.

The chance of DX3 being a prequal are nill to the power of my overdraft so this game will be set a good distance in the future. All the weapons you are talking about are very basic and outdated even for now. Why on earth would they be involved in a a game like this?

Beyond that, having al this add-ons, mods and other tat would be a right pain and would detract from the gameplay....


But aren't there a lot of things in the teaser trailer that are kind of pointing to this game being a prequel? I know that they are just things in a teaser trailer and that may just be put in there to throw us off or it could be completely unrellated to where the game will be set timeline wise. But that at least shows that there is a possibility of this game being a prequel right?

StormFront
13th Dec 2007, 10:52
But aren't there a lot of things in the teaser trailer that are kind of pointing to this game being a prequel? I know that they are just things in a teaser trailer and that may just be put in there to throw us off or it could be completely unrellated to where the game will be set timeline wise. But that at least shows that there is a possibility of this game being a prequel right?


I disagree. I see it as there being a lot of things in the video that show the history of bioenginering. I simply cannot imagine what a prequel will offer us. JC was the first generation of Nano-Aug'd soldiers, everyone else before was a mech and would offer no upgrades or choices for the player.
Beyond that the entire point of DX was the plot and this was formed around the initial conspiracy of Bob Page and how JC had to deal with him, thus leading to the altered world of IW. If the game is a prequal it will have not one thing to do with DX bar the name and that would be idiotic.

Loneranger
13th Dec 2007, 18:28
Despite my amazingly long list, I will have to contradict myself on this one. I do agree that a prequel will do nothing. The only way a prequel could ever possibly make sense is if the main character was Paul Denton, but it would hardly make for an interesting plot line, which unlike some people may think is very important in game play for me, especially in an FPS-RPG game such as DX.

Also the weapons I stated aren't that outdated and basic :P Where did you get that idea from lol?
If you think about it, most of the weapons in the DX series are based on normal weapons, they just look a little different. I mean, look at DX1 one of the first weapons you get is a 10mm (Or is it 9mm?) pistol. And they're outdated now.

SageSavage
13th Dec 2007, 18:36
The only way a prequel could ever possibly make sense is if the main character was Paul Denton, but it would hardly make for an interesting plot line, which unlike some people may think is very important in game play for me, especially in an FPS-RPG game such as DX.
Sorry no offense but the only thing you're telling me is that you lack the creativity to come up with a good plot for a prequel. I am absolutely sure there's plenty of room for excellent new stuff.

Loneranger
13th Dec 2007, 20:08
I suppose you're right. I mean it is all a matter of opinion, and Eidos are professionals at this sorta thing so I guess we can leave it to them (Unless they're relying on the forums for stuff lol).

Besides, we don't even know when it's going to be set, so it's kinda pointless arguing about something like that.

joseph5891
16th Dec 2007, 18:54
To the OP:

Impressive list, but those weapons have zero to do with Deus Ex.

The chance of DX3 being a prequal are nill to the power of my overdraft so this game will be set a good distance in the future. All the weapons you are talking about are very basic and outdated even for now. Why on earth would they be involved in a a game like this?

mmm...i disagree. for one, evidence from the teaser suggests that this will be a prequel. for another, even if it is set 100 years in the future, it's not unthinkable that some of these weapons would still be around due to their effectiveness and cheapness. DX2 was set in the 2070's, and still most of the weapons were firearms - shotgun, pistol, smg. oh sure, they had a fancy new model design and all used the same ammo, but the basic operation was the same. the m1911 is a real life example - it's a gun that's almost 100 years old, and is still the weapon of choice for many enthusiasts, and is even (albeit modified) the weapon of choice of US Marine Expeditionary units.

DX1 was comprised of standard weapons (pistol, shotgun, assault rifle) and hi-tech equipment (emp grenade, plasma gun) and that's the spirit that i tried to follow in this list - some lower tech weapons that you would encounter on the street, high-tech weapons that special-ops type soldiers would carry, and some crazy experimental sci-fi weapons that you would pick up while breaking into secret labs and military bases.


Beyond that, having al this add-ons, mods and other tat would be a right pain and would detract from the gameplay....
the ability to upgrade your character and his equipment has always been an important gameplay element of the DX series. but if you didn't want to do that there are always other options. that's a core feature of DX: options. in this case, i think that there should be vendors that sell weapons (and more than 3 items at a time please.) and could possibly sell fully upgraded weapons at a higher price, allowing you to cut to the chase and shoot some bad guys. or you could just use standard weapons, which would put you at a slight disadvantage, but if you're skilled enough you could pull it off.

but being able to upgrade my weapons was an awesome part of DX1. i was so relieved when i found the MJ12 armory and got my custom sniper rifle back, and lo and behold - there was a silencer for it too!

i know that making the gameplay too complex can backfire, but so can making it too simple - see DX:IW. i just hope the developers find the proper balance.

midna1
16th Dec 2007, 21:55
1. synthetic weapons i.e. bone/gristle gun - to get past ex-rays
2. net launcher
3. one shot, then replay sends the following shots to the same location i.e. from Resistance fall of man - but classic
4. rubber bullets like the Italian police. To stun instead of kill :thumbsup:

StormFront
16th Dec 2007, 23:49
1. synthetic weapons i.e. bone/gristle gun - to get past ex-rays

What? Explanation as to how bone can withstand the explosive force of gunpowder please...


2. net launcher

Are you a dog catcher or what?

3. one shot, then replay sends the following shots to the same location i.e. from Resistance fall of man - but classic

No, that's from Fifth Element and was a joke....


4. rubber bullets like the Italian police. To stun instead of kill :thumbsup:
The Italian police invented rubber bullets? Really? How facinating....

RÆPËR
17th Dec 2007, 00:45
I liked the bipod idea.

Loneranger
18th Dec 2007, 17:06
What? Explanation as to how bone can withstand the explosive force of gunpowder please...

Ever seen the film Existenz? They have bone guns on there, and how would you use gunpowder with what I'm assuming would be bone bullets? (I assumed that they were bone, because if they weren't, you could get the gun past security, but not the bullets).

pKp
18th Dec 2007, 17:16
Weapon Mods should be permanent. I loved the idea of consequence in Deus Ex, where you had to stick with your Biomod Augmentations and Weapon Mods.
I agree that biomods should be permanent, but change-able weapon mods are both fun and realistic IMHO.

Nathan2000
19th Dec 2007, 16:09
I agree that biomods should be permanent, but change-able weapon mods are both fun and realistic IMHO.

Maybe it is, but I don't think, it would be good for the gameplay. You would need to carry just a few weapon mods, attach them to the gun, which you're going to use at the moment, and deattach after action. The game's weapon management factor would vanish like a soap bubble.

It could be partially fixed by making them available at shops only, but still...

Stapledon
20th Dec 2007, 03:27
I think the weapons selection would definitely have to be dependant on the time period the game is set in. If it's post-DX2 Ballistic weapons become less and less believable (welcome to the future here's your Glock). If it's set in 2072 though that's not really a problem. Yeah, firearm technology progresses quickly, but the 9mm was first introduced in 1902 and we still use it. A firearm using the .40 s&w sixty or seventy years from now wouldn't be that odd.

In terms of basic gameplay all I really need is something subtle (like the Crossbow or Stealth Pistol) something not (like a Pulse Rifle or Heavy Machine Gun) and something long and sharp to stab people with (like the Dragon's Tooth or a Carbide Machete). Unarmed combat (strikes/throws/disarms/human sheilds) would be cool too (with maybe the melee combat skill unlocking attacks along the aformentioned progression?).

Also, personally, I think the the Steyr-Mannlicher/Charter Arms Bulldog handgun from Blade Runner is the coolest futuristic firearm of all time, and if it appeared in DX3 I could die happy.

Loneranger
20th Dec 2007, 09:29
If it's set in 2072 though that's not really a problem. Yeah, firearm technology progresses quickly, but the 9mm was first introduced in 1902 and we still use it. A firearm using the .40 s&w sixty or seventy years from now wouldn't be that odd.

I agree. In fact if DX3 is to be a prequel, a ballistic pistol would only make sense, seeing as though you start off with a 10mm pistol in DX.


In terms of basic gameplay all I really need is something subtle (like the Crossbow or Stealth Pistol) something not (like a Pulse Rifle or Heavy Machine Gun) and something long and sharp to stab people with (like the Dragon's Tooth or a Carbide Machete). Unarmed combat (strikes/throws/disarms/human sheilds) would be cool too (with maybe the melee combat skill unlocking attacks along the aformentioned progression?).

I can also pretty much agree with you on this one too, I mean I do like having a knife or something of that sort, just to finish off an opponent that's running away or is unarmed. I hate to say it, but I kinda liked the baton from DX2 so something like that would be cool.
A stealth pistol is, as well, a good idea, but I really do hope they redesign it, cos the stealth pistol in DX1 looks like it should be lighting cigarettes at a drag club.

gamer0004
20th Dec 2007, 11:33
I think the weapons selection would definitely have to be dependant on the time period the game is set in. If it's post-DX2 Ballistic weapons become less and less believable (welcome to the future here's your Glock). If it's set in 2072 though that's not really a problem. Yeah, firearm technology progresses quickly, but the 9mm was first introduced in 1902 and we still use it. A firearm using the .40 s&w sixty or seventy years from now wouldn't be that odd.

In terms of basic gameplay all I really need is something subtle (like the Crossbow or Stealth Pistol) something not (like a Pulse Rifle or Heavy Machine Gun) and something long and sharp to stab people with (like the Dragon's Tooth or a Carbide Machete). Unarmed combat (strikes/throws/disarms/human sheilds) would be cool too (with maybe the melee combat skill unlocking attacks along the aformentioned progression?).

Also, personally, I think the the Steyr-Mannlicher/Charter Arms Bulldog handgun from Blade Runner is the coolest futuristic firearm of all time, and if it appeared in DX3 I could die happy.

Why wouldn't people use ballistic firearms? Ballistic weapons are simply the most practical weapons. Only the way we use them has improved (from single-shot to multishot (??? no idea what it's called in English) and blackpowder to smokeless powder). Lasers or something like that are very improbable, it'll be very hard to make a laserweapon, munition is a problem and lasers can be reflected by mirrors.
The railgun like in DX:IW is a bit improbable too. And there are no advantages of those kind of weapons.

Harakiribert
20th Dec 2007, 11:38
I am confident that the devs will give us a good choice of weapons. But I really hope that they drop the idea of universal ammo. :mad2:
Recently I was thinking about the SS2 feature, that the weapons wear out with use. Implementing something like that would prevent crafting/skilling an uberweapon. At least that weapon couldn't be used that frequently.

khris
7th Jan 2008, 04:40
I had a lot of fun to read all this. Great ideas and a lot of choices...
The only thing I would say is: "It would not be necessary to have too much choices, when one or two rifles would do the job, by example."

I mean, I do not think it would be necessary to have 10 pistols when you can have 3 or four distinct pistols (just examples):

- Normal pistol
- Power Pistol
- Semi-Automatic Pistol

Simple, stupid and efficient and your list is a great start to get a nice Brainstorm.

Nice work!
- Khris -

m72
23rd Mar 2008, 12:35
I don't want to see any say "real world" rifle i'd rather see a more futuristic weapons like in the original deus ex. But i like the topic starter idea of legitimate and street version weapons and mod. And i'd like to see a more RPGish world when you can go to a store and buy a weapon instead of salvaging them from dead bodies

GruntOwner
23rd Mar 2008, 22:47
The railgun like in DX:IW is a bit improbable too. And there are no advantages of those kind of weapons.

The mag rail was a bad weapon on account of sucking so hard, but rail guns are very probable and would make the rocket launcher look like an anti infantry weapon. If they were to include it, they'd have to do it justice, as in we're talking about a weapon that fires a lump of tungsten at several kilometers a second. It would be very long and cumbersome, but it's more than feesable and would take out a military bot on the other side of a reinforced wall. This paragraph assumes that you were talking about railguns in general, not just that IW atrocity. If you were refering exclusively to that tin foil tube, please ignore the paragraph.
Lasers are are annoying and drain energy at a rate that makes China's annual bill look like a lidl's can of beans, so I agree with avoiding them.

ironman_555
23rd Mar 2008, 23:28
I am confident that the devs will give us a good choice of weapons. But I really hope that they drop the idea of universal ammo. :mad2:
Recently I was thinking about the SS2 feature, that the weapons wear out with use. Implementing something like that would prevent crafting/skilling an uberweapon. At least that weapon couldn't be used that frequently.

the uberweapon haha. I definatly had a bombtrack assault gun and sniper rifle in DX1, both with lazers, accurate as a mother trucker, barely nudged back when fired, and both could hit a target square in the back of the head at the other side of area 51 without even zooming in.
No matter how awesome it was pwning MJ12 with my uberweapons, by the end they got a wee bit boring... so i agree, having weapons wear out means you have to balance between finding crisp, new guns and using your old worked in guns that are modded. interesting concept

Azrepheal
23rd Mar 2008, 23:37
so i agree, having weapons wear out means you have to balance between finding crisp, new guns and using your old worked in guns that are modded. interesting concept

I agree with the sentiments, but surely if you spend time finding the mods and modding your weapon, having it fall apart a few firefights later is going to get bloody irritating.

In terms of 'influencing' the player to vary the types of weapon used, what Id prefere (although I dunno if they'd go this far, hope they would) is a more intelligent AI system.

Say you're blasting away for ages with a rocket launcher, using it as your primary weapon. Itd be nice to have the enemies behave in a realistic fasion: spread out away from each other and use smoke screens so it becomes difficult (at best to use).

If you keep taking them out one by one, silently from the shadows with a dragonstoothsword(tm) - have them group together, covering all directions so you cant 'sneak up from behind'

Any thoughts?

Kevyne-Shandris
24th Mar 2008, 05:54
To the OP:

Impressive list, but those weapons have zero to do with Deus Ex.

Precisely. DX wasn't just a shooter. The game was made for the player to THINK of OTHER solutions than JUST killing.

The only 3 weapons I'd really prefered in DX was the sniper rifle/7.62mm rounds; LAMs and Tear gas canisters (which I like using as ladders). :D

But one thing not included in this list, that's sorely lacking in modern games with the Havok physic engines -- the ability to pick up and use crates to jump on and over. Truly miss that in games now.

Gary_Savage
24th Mar 2008, 22:23
No matter how awesome it was pwning MJ12 with my uberweapons, by the end they got a wee bit boring... so i agree, having weapons wear out means you have to balance between finding crisp, new guns and using your old worked in guns that are modded. interesting concept

Well, what about having the ability to remove certain mods from a weapon, like a scope and a laser sight? That way these things can be transferred to the new, crisp, weapon, while mods, like the range booster (some sort of lubricator, in the case of DX1) , would have to be left behind. If a lot of people like this idea, then someone knowledgeable about guns will have to suggest which mods should be transferable to a new weapon, and which ones will have to die with, or before (like a silencer, perhaps breaking after some usage), the old.

madeye
25th Mar 2008, 07:27
I definitely would want to have interchangeable weapon rounds. For an example, the real-life FN P90 submachine gun uses the 5.7mm round and its pistol counterpart, the Five-seveN, uses the same ammo. Also, you could have interchangeable sniper rifle/assault rifle ammo (maybe not as realistic, but plausible).

Has anyone ever played Perfect Dark? Remember the tranq gun? I'd love to see something like that. Basically its a small fast firing pistol. It shoots little darts and the more you hit someone with them, the more they get drugged up.

A few opinionated notes:

- Too many guns to choose from will complicate the game (unless you used the same rounds for a handful of different firearms).

- The .22 round shouldn't be in the game. Its _extremely_ weak. Its been known to ricochet off of thick unarmored bone. It shouldn't even be considered as a backup weapon.

- The majority of silencers do not cause a weaker bullet impact (see DX1, the stealth pistol does less damage than the 10mm pistol, same ammo). Normal rounds can be used in a silenced weapon. These rounds cause a loud "crack" as they travel down range. Using subsonic ammo fixes this problem which also travels slower and will not hit as hard. Also, many silencers today no longer bleed the escaping gases to cause the bullet to become subsonic. I think that DX3 should use standard bullets, making a stealth pistol (or SMG) hit with the same force as a normal round.

-Please please please please please!!!!... Don't have the "Nike-ish" manufacturer names on the weapons. In DX2, the pistol and SMG had big silvery "MAKO" stamped on the side. A real firearm manufacturer would NEVER do this. Its just ridiculous. If we ever see firearm manufacturers decide to lose their anonymity and start stamping all of their guns with a loud, easy-to-be-seen "Nike-ish" logo, then we should all be afraid. Imagine, while watching TV, you see a commercial where some good guy is shooting up a bunch of bad guys. The good guy stops shooting, strikes a deadly pose, and the disembodied announcer says... "MAKO... Just kill it!" Then you're compelled to think; "Awwww man, that guy just got shot up by that MAKO pistol!!! I gotta get me one of those! They're so effective at killing people!!!!"... I'm just kidding sort of.... you'd never think that right??... right???

dimaf1985
25th Mar 2008, 09:47
-Please please please please please!!!!... Don't have the "Nike-ish" manufacturer names on the weapons. In DX2, the pistol and SMG had big silvery "MAKO" stamped on the side. A real firearm manufacturer would NEVER do this. Its just ridiculous. If we ever see firearm manufacturers decide to lose their anonymity and start stamping all of their guns with a loud, easy-to-be-seen "Nike-ish" logo, then we should all be afraid. Imagine, while watching TV, you see a commercial where some good guy is shooting up a bunch of bad guys. The good guy stops shooting, strikes a deadly pose, and the disembodied announcer says... "MAKO... Just kill it!" Then you're compelled to think; "Awwww man, that guy just got shot up by that MAKO pistol!!! I gotta get me one of those! They're so effective at killing people!!!!"... I'm just kidding sort of.... you'd never think that right??... right???

Well that gets me thinking that maybe this was done intentionally to show how in the DX2 world, a weapons manufacturer is a commercial entity with designer products. But that was one of the fundamental flaws in DX2. They tried to create a futuristic world where the societal norms were radically different from those of today. DX1 did the exact opposite by showing similarities between the people of the mid-21st century and the people of today. Despite the fact that there are going to be profound technological advances fifty years from now, things like terrorism, corrupt governments and traditional laws remain largely unchanged. So yeah, the concept of a commercial weapons manufacturer is just silly. There WAS logic behind the MAKO stamps but the reasoning was flawed to begin with. DX2 ruined so much that was right with this franchise.........

Vasarto
2nd Apr 2008, 22:19
A stealth Sniper rifle and a Scythe would be cool!:D

Larington
2nd Apr 2008, 22:31
On that subject, I've heard the ideal before that in Science Fiction, the good writers don't so much write the futuristic stuff itself, rather they deal with how humanity copes (Or doesn't) with futuristic technology. For example, coming across an alien race that managed to wipe itself out by creating a machine that was supposed to kill any of that race who weren't perfect, the caveat being that there isn't really any such thing as perfection - Its subjective (One persons perfect is another persons, err, imperfect). Ok, in this case it applies to an alien race, until an archaeologist stumbles on the technology and manages to activate it, causing havoc amongst the local human population.