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MagnumJoe
4th Dec 2007, 13:36
Aren't you guys a bit worried that he isn't in the picture?
I mean, i think that this guy IS Deus Ex!

Now with him not working on the project, are you still optimistic about it?

Xcom
4th Dec 2007, 14:20
To be honest - no, not worried. I mean the involvement of a prominent figure doesn't necessarily guarantee a success. After all, Spector was involved in Invisible War, and ... well... :whistle:

StormFront
4th Dec 2007, 14:22
To be honest - no, not worried. I mean the involvement of a prominent figure doesn't necessarily guarantee a success. After all, Spector was involved in Invisible War, and ... well... :whistle:

QFT
Spector has had his day I'm afraid. Sure he did good things in the past but that's it. He would not have anything to offer this project that wouild be of value.

MagnumJoe
4th Dec 2007, 18:01
But note something, in Deus Ex, he was the producer: he was in control.
In Invisible war, he was only a director. I don't know know.

Well i hope this turns out to be fine. Because, really, until now, i haven't enjoyed a game as much as i enjoyed Deus Ex. This is my favorite game of all times really.

pKp
5th Dec 2007, 00:48
Hell, Harvey Smith was in the first DX. Look at Area 51. :mad2:
Nope...anyway, there's no WAY DX3 can be better than the first at its own game. What I really hope is DX-like dense, mysterious, dark universe (but - hopefully - prettier and more detailed), and some good surprises with gameplay and story.

MagnumJoe
5th Dec 2007, 10:44
That's what i am hoping too: i don't think they'll ever be able to produce something like Deus Ex, but at least, to give us a world to live in.

JoeGreensKiller
11th Dec 2007, 23:19
Warren???? Oh the man who sold out lol...Lets hope he has nothing to do with three... Sorry ppl that was one of my disappointments about I.W was his involvment, Its like Einstien changing vital peices of the therory of relitivity...lol

Daedalink
13th Dec 2007, 08:05
Warren???? Oh the man who sold out lol...Lets hope he has nothing to do with three... Sorry ppl that was one of my disappointments about I.W was his involvment, Its like Einstien changing vital peices of the therory of relitivity...lol

Eh? Sold out? How? Dude, what are you rambling about? He basically lead the creation of DX1. Harvey Smith led DX:IW. Warren had nothing to do with DX:IW. It's probably the main reason why it failed.

As for him not having any involvement with DX3. Doesn't feel right having a DX game without Warren. But I get the feeling that the guys who are undertaking DX3 are fans of the original, wanting to do the series continued justice or Eidos are in need of more $$$, which probably means a doomed title. *cough* Kane and Lynch. (Yes I know it was made by a different developer..)

StormFront
13th Dec 2007, 10:58
Eh? Sold out? How? Dude, what are you rambling about? He basically lead the creation of DX1. Harvey Smith led DX:IW. Warren had nothing to do with DX:IW. It's probably the main reason why it failed.



Wrong, they were both involved with IW, what are you talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_War

Daedalink
13th Dec 2007, 11:14
Wrong, they were both involved with IW, what are you talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_War

I didn't make myself clear the first time, my bad. Harvey Smith lead, Warren Specter stood in the background quietly snickering at Harvey's vision of IW.

http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/437/437677p1.html

Warren Spector: Ok. My name is Warren Spector. My personal title is Studio Director. I conceived the original Deus Ex and was the project director on the game. Now I'm working mostly as chief kibitzer, I guess… You know, Harvey Smith and I have been working together for over ten years now, and half the time he completes my sentences before I can, and he understands Deus Ex inside out. It was time for him to step and play a bigger role - I kind of had to get out of the way a little bit.

StormFront
13th Dec 2007, 11:51
I didn't make myself clear the first time, my bad. Harvey Smith lead, Warren Specter stood in the background quietly snickering at Harvey's vision of IW.

http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/437/437677p1.html

Warren Spector: Ok. My name is Warren Spector. My personal title is Studio Director. I conceived the original Deus Ex and was the project director on the game. Now I'm working mostly as chief kibitzer, I guess… You know, Harvey Smith and I have been working together for over ten years now, and half the time he completes my sentences before I can, and he understands Deus Ex inside out. It was time for him to step and play a bigger role - I kind of had to get out of the way a little bit.

Fair point. Interesting article as well, but you know what reading it made me think? Warren is a complete weapon. Seriously, the man has no bloody clue at all. Good riddance...

Daedalink
13th Dec 2007, 13:15
I find the rating that IGN gave IW (9.0/10) slightly more disturbing.

Bluey71
13th Dec 2007, 20:32
I didn't make myself clear the first time, my bad. Harvey Smith lead, Warren Specter stood in the background quietly snickering at Harvey's vision of IW.

http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/437/437677p1.html

Warren Spector: Ok. My name is Warren Spector. My personal title is Studio Director. I conceived the original Deus Ex and was the project director on the game. Now I'm working mostly as chief kibitzer, I guess… You know, Harvey Smith and I have been working together for over ten years now, and half the time he completes my sentences before I can, and he understands Deus Ex inside out. It was time for him to step and play a bigger role - I kind of had to get out of the way a little bit.

You are right about the different roles Warren had in each respective game.

As for bidding him good riddance, hmm nope. Warren deserves respect for his treatment of Dx1 and the thief games. I always associate him with the alternative take on how things should be done. And this approach has provided us with hours of entertainment. Yes perhaps people have put him on too high a chair sometimes, he is not the god of gaming, but he is pretty close :D

SageSavage
13th Dec 2007, 21:40
I guess semi-geniuses like Spector are a lot more inspired and effective when it comes to the invention of new games and gameplays rather than doing sequels/prequels where the whole fundament already stands including a die hard community like we are. I think it would have been hard for every developer to do a sequel for the true masterpiece DX1 was. It's good for the DX3-team that IW lowered our expectations again and opened the way for a whole new try. Let's hope that they respect our love for DX but let them also stay true to their own vision. It's not good to pressure them too much.

MagnumJoe
14th Dec 2007, 21:04
I guess semi-geniuses like Spector are a lot more inspired and effective when it comes to the invention of new games and gameplays rather than doing sequels/prequels where the whole fundament already stands including a die hard community like we are.

I would agree with that.

But i would like that Warren Spector, be consulted about the story line of DX3, as he is the closest one who would think like us: Think DX1! You know what i mean?

phlebas
15th Dec 2007, 02:37
Warren Spector was behind DX1 and the Thief. Those two games alone earn him life time respect in my book. As for the relative failure of DX:IW, I was under impression that the marketing department (i.e. the type of people not qualified to do anything else) was breathing down heavy on the development team, and it might even be possible that certain features/dumbing downs of DX:IW came straight from the marketing/management, instead of the development team.

WhatsHisFace
15th Dec 2007, 04:18
Warren Spector was behind DX1 and the Thief. Those two games alone earn him life time respect in my book. As for the relative failure of DX:IW, I was under impression that the marketing department (i.e. the type of people not qualified to do anything else) was breathing down heavy on the development team, and it might even be possible that certain features/dumbing downs of DX:IW came straight from the marketing/management, instead of the development team.
That had something to do with it, but Warren wasn't even able to get too hands-on with the game. He was promoted to Studio Lead and had more of a "general overseer" role than a direct connection to the game.

pKp
15th Dec 2007, 14:05
From what I've read, I got the impression that what really made DX1 great was the additional 6 or 12 months the devs got to polish the game - something they weren't allowed to do in IW.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Dec 2007, 12:44
Warren Spector deserves total respect, he's my hero in the gaming world. :cool:

Deus Ex 3
28th Dec 2007, 13:50
Via http://www.eurogamer.net (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=89490)

17/12/07
(...)
Eurogamer: Talking about those past games, have you been in communication with anyone at Eidos Montreal about Deus Ex 3 yet?

Warren Spector: I haven't talked to people at Eidos Montreal, but I've talked to people inside Eidos about the Deus Ex 3 project. And... you know? It's hard for me to not be a part of it. I can't be, because of my employment situation. But their intentions are good. We'll just have to see. I'm concerned only because... for Invisible War, for all its successes and all the risks it took, it just proved how delicate the Deus Ex game style is. And so people who haven't worked on it... they'll bring something new to it, which is good, but will they understand what made it work? I don't know.


Eurogamer: It's not an easy job, no matter how you cut it.

Warren Spector: It is very hard. I don't envy them that job. But... I feel kind of weird, because in a sense it's still my baby. But you have to look forward. You've got to look forward. There certainly are enough challenges in my near future to keep me busy. And I'll try and stay focused on that, and not so much on what other people are doing. But they better not screw up JC Denton [laughs]. I'm looking forward to playing it. I'm trying to be Zen about it. It's another studio making games like "that". Whatever "that" is - the BioShock, Fable, Mass Effect, Thief, Deus Ex, Ultima sort of thing.

Eurogamer: You can kind of plot a timeline going forward with those sort of games. When you play one, you know there's not going to be anything similar, for a year minimum. So each one you pray they make a good job of it, as if enough of those games fail, they may get made anymore. Bioshock's success has got to be heartening - they found away to make it sell.

Warren Spector: The thing which just kills me is how hard it is. It was kind of a running joke at Ion Storm. I would bring in people from outside that Origin/Looking Glass circle, and they'd come in and I'd warn them - you don't understand what's about to happen to you. You don't understand how much harder what we do is to anything you've ever worked on. You don't understand how your experience - and though it's valuable, or we wouldn't be talking - is not as valuable as you think. And they'd all give me a knowing look. And a year later, pretty much to the day, they'd come back and go... you were right. So when a new bunch of guys get hold of something and try and make those games with player choice with real consequences and a storyline which isn't black and white, good and evil... I hope they know what they're doing. As it's way harder than anything.
(...)

ricwhite
28th Dec 2007, 17:06
Nice quotes

And that's why it's so difficult to make a sequel to a masterpiece. Yeah, let's have a new, young artist paint an update to the Mona Lisa and hope it's as good as the original.

:rolleyes:

Smoke Screen
28th Dec 2007, 21:21
And that's why it's so difficult to make a sequel to a masterpiece.

Yep,nice quotes. But is was done one time with the System Shock Sequel.
Those guys came from within the Origin/Looking Glass Circle.

ricwhite
28th Dec 2007, 21:38
But is was done one time with the System Shock Sequel.


Those are not very good odds. :) I hope the developers of DX3 have at least PLAYED DX1.

imported_van_HellSing
28th Dec 2007, 22:59
phlebas - Spector worked on Thief, but he was definitely not the man behind the game.

Quoth Warren:

So I signed on with Looking Glass, worked briefly on Thief: The Dark Project (though my impact on that title was, at best, minimal)

Actually Deus Ex somewhat grew out of Warren's frustration with Thief:


I spent a year working with the Thief team and found myself a little frustrated at how narrowly focused that game was shaping up to be. That's not a bad thing, but I just kept arguing that we could allow players more freedom of action than Thief allowed.

To paraphrase Harvey Smith (I believe), DX was to be a swiss-army-knife as opposed to Thief's scalpel.

As to Warren's genious, I guess he's a hit and miss type of guy - know what he's doing now? A game about ninjas. Seriously, how cliche can you get? :mad2:


ricwhite - I'd say the odds are in their favour. They already expressed that they look at DX1 for inspiration more than IW, also the teaser's flashing image sequence implies that they looked quite deep into DX themes - without reading the DX design bible and closely looking at DX1's dialogue and datacubes, they wouldn't know about the social tension resulting from mechanical augs (well, there is a chance they might have came up with that idea themselves, but it's not really a prevalent theme in cyberpunk fiction) or pinpoint the peak of those problems to the 2020's.

DOitlikeDEUSEX1
29th Dec 2007, 07:50
And that's why it's so difficult to make a sequel to a masterpiece. Yeah, let's have a new, young artist paint an update to the Mona Lisa and hope it's as good as the original.

:rolleyes:

Mona Lisa is very unattractive and could vastly be improved quite easily IMO. I never understood what the big hype is with that painting. Here is a site with many improvements: http://www.megamonalisa.com/ugly-maona/

Necros
30th Dec 2007, 02:12
QFT
Spector has had his day I'm afraid. Sure he did good things in the past but that's it. He would not have anything to offer this project that wouild be of value.
:nut: Yeah, sure... :rolleyes:

Well, Stephane said they had a few chats with him and I hope they'll keep in touch, just in case. :) And it would be great if they could get Harvey to work with them, even for a few months. :cool:

primer
2nd Jan 2008, 00:20
What other work did the new developers work on ?

Will any other member of Deus Ex Ion Storm be involved ?

How many ideas do they have ?

What is the starting point for the plot ?

Any misleads ?

gamer0004
2nd Jan 2008, 09:23
What other work did the new developers work on ?

Will any other member of Deus Ex Ion Storm be involved ?

How many ideas do they have ?

What is the starting point for the plot ?

Any misleads ?

1. I'm not sure but some have worked on other Eidos games I believe.
2. No.
3. We do not know
4. We do not know
5. We do not know

JulianP
3rd Jan 2008, 14:37
QFT
Spector has had his day I'm afraid. Sure he did good things in the past but that's it. He would not have anything to offer this project that wouild be of value.
I couldn't disagree more. I kind of lost my faith in him after IW, but after reading the stuff he's written in the past couple of years it's obvious to me that this man still has a LOT to offer to the gaming world. And to DX3, if he were to participate in making it.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_65/381-Fun-is-a-Four-Letter-Word
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_37/225-Gaming-at-the-Margins
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/70852

If after reading those you still feel that he has nothing to offer anymore, please explain to me why you think so.

imported_van_HellSing
3rd Jan 2008, 18:31
this man still has a LOT to offer to the gaming world.

Yeah, like ninjas. Friggin' NINJAS.

SageSavage
3rd Jan 2008, 18:47
Yeah, like ninjas. Friggin' NINJAS.Just wait, till it's there... No need to damn it yet. ;)

JulianP
6th Jan 2008, 16:52
Yeah, like ninjas. Friggin' NINJAS.
But... but... ninjas are awesome!

But in all seriousness, AFAIK that's a secondary project. The main focus at the moment is the supposedly ground breaking fantasy game that Junction Point is working on.

Btw, I just found out that Sheldon Pacotti is the lead writer at Junction Point. It seems that a lot of other people that were working on Deus Ex are now at Junction Point too. Steve Powers, Matt Baer, Clay Hoffman, Rob Kovach, Monte Martinez... I'm so very anxious to see what they're cooking.

lithos
27th Sep 2010, 06:13
Btw, I just found out that Sheldon Pacotti is the lead writer at Junction Point. It seems that a lot of other people that were working on Deus Ex are now at Junction Point too. Steve Powers, Matt Baer, Clay Hoffman, Rob Kovach, Monte Martinez... I'm so very anxious to see what they're cooking.

Aye. It's not the IP that matters, it's the people behind it.

Jerion
27th Sep 2010, 06:45
Wow, talk about necroposting.

Closed.