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View Full Version : Falsified review scores on main K&L Page? (merged)



EEEMasta
4th Dec 2007, 05:09
Come now Edios. I have been a long time fan of all of your games, especially the Hitman titles (I still pop in Blood Money every month or so) and was really looking forward to Kane and Lynch, but the way you guys have been acting has almost convinced me not to support you. First we had the whole Gamespot fiasco that, while the suits say it is just rumors, there is far too much coincidence for it to be that.
But falsified reviews cited on your main website? Thats just offensive. Of both the Gamespy and Game Informer review, neither of them gave you anything near 5 stars, and the text that you are quoting are from previews as old as a year ago...Here are a couple links that prove the point: http://kotaku.com/gaming/kane-%26-lynch/kane--lynch-site-fibbing-about-reviews-scores-329529.php
http://www.gamebump.com/go/official_kane_and_lynch_website_lies_about_its_scores
Any officials want to comment on this? :scratch:

chip5541
4th Dec 2007, 05:37
This will be the only thread on this subject. It is now still early morning and none of the offices are open. Eidos has been sent the links and issues being brought up and will be looked at.

All other threads will be deleted.

Crow_Servo
4th Dec 2007, 05:44
When Eiods lies about review scores, do they think they're going to get away with it? I'm just curious.

Ryoko85
4th Dec 2007, 05:48
I wonder this too? Is there refund for lying?

halflifedave
4th Dec 2007, 05:48
Those weren't reviews. Those comments were on the site long before the game was released or reviewed. Rumor sites are just trying to pointlessly put Eidos under more pressure.

EEEMasta
4th Dec 2007, 06:03
Those weren't reviews. Those comments were on the site long before the game was released or reviewed. Rumor sites are just trying to pointlessly put Eidos under more pressure.

Nah, and if they are, its just a slimy way of getting people to think they are review scores while having a technically legitimate way to explain the falsifications. But I have been messaging the Mod back and forth and I think he actually did report this to Eidos as he said he did, so all we can do is wait and see what they send back. Thanks again Chip

halflifedave
4th Dec 2007, 06:11
Trust me, prior to actually getting the game, I went to the website alot. Those comments were always there complete with the stars. I'm curious as to why the mod you talked with didn't actually know that, but it's true. There are plenty of better reasons to hate this game than just because some bull**** rumor site tells you to (especially the PC version).

EEEMasta
4th Dec 2007, 06:20
Oh no no no, this is just icing on the cake. I am not hating on the game as much as I am hating on the company (and I really am not hating on anything, just filing a legitimate complaint). And if what you say is true, why have they not changed the articles to reflect the most recent word on their "5 star" game, and furthermore, where did the 5 stars come from in the first place. Neither Gamespy nor Game Informer give out star reviews to previews...

SuperHitman
4th Dec 2007, 06:55
Remember when Sony did this with their movies?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4741259.stm

Cost them $1.5m. And they made their reviewers up. So Eidos' situation is worse because they stand to be sued as well by the publications to whom the phony reviews were attributed.

sleeper707
4th Dec 2007, 06:56
Those ads on the website has been there long before the game was released. They are not reviews but preview comments as we all knew no one reviewed the game when it wasn't even done yet. The guy at Kotaku who posted this must have had his FIRST visit to the site recently and misinterpreted it as reviews. Its also been in magazine ads as well.

I agree that it is misleading NOW. But before it was clear in it being preview comments and not review comments.

Now, ONCE AGAIN, Kane & Lynch and all the hard working IO developers are gonna suffer because of the efforts of the "professional" online gaming journalists. :(

EEEMasta
4th Dec 2007, 06:58
Those ads on the website has been there long before the game was released. They are not reviews but preview comments as we all knew no one reviewed the game when it wasn't even done yet. The guy at Kotaku who posted this must have had his FIRST visit to the site recently and misinterpreted it as reviews. Its also been in magazine ads as well.

I agree that it is misleading NOW. But before it was clear in it being preview comments and not review comments.

Now, once again, Kane & Lynch and all the hard working IO developers are gonna suffer because of the efforts of the "professional" online gaming journalists. :(
Regardless of how old they are, its common knowledge that previews do not get ratings, so for them to give 5 star ratings to previews means they are trying to make them look like reviews

sleeper707
4th Dec 2007, 07:01
Regardless of how old they are, its common knowledge that previews do not get ratings, so for them to give 5 star ratings to previews means they are trying to make them look like reviews

So why wasn't this reported when it first showed up in the ads? Why is Kotaku reporting this NOW?

Why aren't they reporting on other companies that have used preview comments to sell a game?

SuperHitman
4th Dec 2007, 07:04
Those ads on the website has been there long before the game was released. They are not reviews but preview comments as we all knew no one reviewed the game when it wasn't even done yet. The guy at Kotaku who posted this must have had his FIRST visit to the site recently and misinterpreted it as reviews. Its also been in magazine ads as well.

I agree that it is misleading NOW. But before it was clear in it being preview comments and not review comments.

Now, ONCE AGAIN, Kane & Lynch and all the hard working IO developers are gonna suffer because of the efforts of the "professional" online gaming journalists. :(

No dude. Just... no. The quotes are all preceded with 5 stars to make them look like review scores. They are MEANT to be misinterpreted so that people will be misled into thinking K&L is a better game than it is and buying it. Kotaku.com is actually one of the sites to whom a phony review is misattributed. There's no mistake there. They paired positive-sounding quotes from previews with false star ratings.

K&L's developers are going to suffer, yes, and not through any fault of their own. Not through the fault of any game journalist, either. They're suffering because their publisher's underhanded desperation attempts to artificially inflate their game's review score are blowing up in their face, because they've been caught. IO is not to blame, but Eidos has crossed several lines, and it's probably going to cost them in legal penalties.

It's all right to support developers of games you enjoy. But don't confuse the developers for their publisher, or seek to defend corrupt actions for love of a game.

EEEMasta
4th Dec 2007, 07:04
Because noone really payed attention before the whole Gamespot incident came to light, and now that they are under scrutiny people are looking out for things like this.

Edit: What he said as well^

sleeper707
4th Dec 2007, 07:16
No dude. Just... no. The quotes are all preceded with 5 stars to make them look like review scores. They are MEANT to be misinterpreted so that people will be misled into thinking K&L is a better game than it is and buying it. Kotaku.com is actually one of the sites to whom a phony review is misattributed. There's no mistake there. They paired positive-sounding quotes from previews with false star ratings.

K&L's developers are going to suffer, yes, and not through any fault of their own. Not through the fault of any game journalist, either. They're suffering because their publisher's underhanded desperation attempts to artificially inflate their game's review score are blowing up in their face, because they've been caught. IO is not to blame, but Eidos has crossed several lines, and it's probably going to cost them in legal penalties.

It's all right to support developers of games you enjoy. But don't confuse the developers for their publisher, or seek to defend corrupt actions for love of a game.

If only you came up with that earlier before all this mess happened right? I agree its misleading NOW because of the STARS but I and other fans knew that the comments were not reviews. It was obvious that they were previews and what certain critics said were their first impressions.

Also now, us Kane and Lynch fans are gonna have to deal with this SPAM with new posters coming to our forum all over AGAIN and bothering us rather then the Eidos official forum and email. As if Jeff got fired all over again and we had to deal with all those spammers who bothered our community because their god of a game reviewer got canned.

sleeper707
4th Dec 2007, 07:18
Because noone really payed attention before the whole Gamespot incident came to light, and now that they are under scrutiny people are looking out for things like this.

Edit: What he said as well^

Noone but those interested in the game. We all saw those ads and thought hey, the first impressions of the game are pretty good, lets hope the final product will be good.

SuperHitman
4th Dec 2007, 07:24
If only you came up with that earlier before all this mess happened right? I agree its misleading NOW because of the STARS but I and other fans knew that the comments were not reviews. It was obvious that they were previews and what certain critics said were their first impressions.

Also now, us Kane and Lynch fans are gonna have to deal with this SPAM with new posters coming to our forum all over AGAIN and bothering us rather then the Eidos official forum and email. As if Jeff got fired all over again and we had to deal with all those spammers who bothered our community because their god of a game reviewer got canned.

In fact I did try and post in the main Eidos thread and the moderator preferred that the discussion be placed here instead. But they are thus far relatively successful in keeping the discussion to one thread, so I don't think the Eidos community will suffer as a result.

But I think if you are frustrated by these posts, your anger is best directed at Eidos, whose dealings are behind both the gamespot situation and this new review fabrication issue.

EEEMasta
4th Dec 2007, 07:27
I don't care about Jeff...well actually, thats not true. Truthfully, I never actually knew who he was until the whole gamespot thing, but I don't like reviewers getting fired because of marketing BS. I am not going to go into that though, because I am sure "your beloved community" has heard quite enough of it. I know you are just trying to defend your favorite developer, but you really haven't produced anything that has countered our charges and you seem to be overlooking 2 major points in our case against them. 1 being the fact that regardless of when Eidos (and I don't recall them being there emblazoned by 5 stars last time I visited the K&L site) put those reviews up, they are still misleading and old information that has since been updated. 2 of which is that previews don't get star ratings...so tell me where the stars came from.

And as for your whole beloved community thing, I am a member of this community too. I have played every single Hitman game made and own quite a few other Eidos games as well, so don't try and say that we are any less members of this community than you are. We are just angry members of your same community speaking up

chip5541
4th Dec 2007, 07:40
Ok, I finally had a couple of minutes to check it out myself. It appears to only be in teh flash version. Since the stars are outside the quote I am wondering if maybe they were meant to be bullet points?

GoranAgar
4th Dec 2007, 07:52
They are MEANT to be misinterpreted so that people will be misled into thinking K&L is a better game than it is and buying it.
You mean this is an advertising that is not quite scientifically based? Wow, I never thought I would see the day an advertisement tried to sell me something. :lol:

sleeper707
4th Dec 2007, 07:58
QUOTE=EEEMasta;711267]I don't care about Jeff...well actually, thats not true. Truthfully, I never actually knew who he was until the whole gamespot thing, but I don't like reviewers getting fired because of marketing BS. I am not going to go into that though, because I am sure "your beloved community" has heard quite enough of it. I know you are just trying to defend your favorite developer, but you really haven't produced anything that has countered our charges and you seem to be overlooking 2 major points in our case against them. 1 being the fact that regardless of when Eidos (and I don't recall them being there emblazoned by 5 stars last time I visited the K&L site) put those reviews up, they are still misleading and old information that has since been updated. 2 of which is that previews don't get star ratings...so tell me where the stars came from.

And as for your whole beloved community thing, I am a member of this community too. I have played every single Hitman game made and own quite a few other Eidos games as well, so don't try and say that we are any less members of this community than you are. We are just angry members of your same community speaking up[/QUOTE]

1. When did I say IO was my favorite developer? Are you trying to make me out as some kind of fanboy?

2. I'm merely giving facts. The ads were up long before the game was released. Because of the recent events with gamespot, people are thinking eidos must have put this RECENTLY or something to counter the recent bad press.

3.

1 being the fact that regardless of when Eidos (and I don't recall them being there emblazoned by 5 stars last time I visited the K&L site) put those reviews up, they are still misleading and old information that has since been updated.

Yes, and I agreed with you guys with it being misleading NOW that the game is Now released.


2 of which is that previews don't get star ratings...so tell me where the stars came from.
Good question, another good question why would 3 to 4 different game sites would give the same type of rating system. IGN doesn't review with stars, they use a 1-10 rating system. luckily when I saw those, the game didn't go gold yet so I figured they had to be first impressions rather then reviews.

But yeah, they are misleading, too bad you guys didn't catch them before all this gamespot fiasco ever happened.

I take it you guys are gonna raise hell on any other company their forums if they did this type of marketing.

EEEMasta
4th Dec 2007, 08:03
You mean this is an advertising that is not quite scientifically based? Wow, I never thought I would see the day an advertisement tried to sell me something. :lol:
Hahaha indeed, but that still does not make it right. They sure didn't have to do that with any of the Hitman games. I just don't like to see it from them, especially after their entries into the gaming news. Especially from Game Informer, which I have open on my lap turned to the review page...of which a 7 was awarded...7=/= ***** lol.

sleeper707
4th Dec 2007, 08:06
And as for your whole beloved community thing, I am a member of this community too. I have played every single Hitman game made and own quite a few other Eidos games as well, so don't try and say that we are any less members of this community than you are. We are just angry members of your same community speaking up

Never said you were haters of IO but based on your 6 posts you are new to this particular community. Any one new to these forums who talk about anything other then the game is is under suspect as nothing but spammers especially after spamming of recent events.

EEEMasta
4th Dec 2007, 08:11
Woah, sorry man, didn't mean to make you angry or whatever. I am not trying to make you out to look like a fanboy, you are doing a fine job of that by yourself! Haha jk jk. But seriously though, I will repeat again, as long as those messages have been up, they have been misleading. Less informed people who go to the website and see a 5 star review from Game Informer and Gamespy quoting messages of praise might get the wrong idea, ya know?

EEEMasta
4th Dec 2007, 08:16
Haha just thought this video was hilarious and somewhat relevant lol. http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/138949.html?playlist=featured

jaywalker2309
4th Dec 2007, 08:18
Hmm just noticed its only on the US site. The UK site doesnt list those sites.

I always assumed the language select was for just that, make the page in french, german etc, didnt think UK and US would be different.

EEEMasta
4th Dec 2007, 08:32
Hmm, so only the US site saw fit to either false advertise 5 star reviews, so use 5 stars as bullet points which is a really really ignorant idea....wait...nope, just checked the UK site and they have their own fabricated 5 star reviews from Xbox 360 (I had no idea a console could review its games) and Xbox 360 Magazine featuring quotes not actually found in the review of OXM either...shocker eh? Well, I am running on 4 hours of sleep, and its 4am here, so its time for me to hit the sack. Ill be back on for the latest on this thread in the afternoon. Night

jaywalker2309
4th Dec 2007, 08:34
Hmm, so only the US site saw fit to either false advertise 5 star reviews, so use 5 stars as bullet points which is a really really ignorant idea....wait...nope, just checked the UK site and they have their own fabricated 5 star reviews from Xbox 360 (I had no idea a console could review its games) and Xbox 360 Magazine featuring quotes not actually found in the review of OXM either...shocker eh? Well, I am running on 4 hours of sleep, and its 4am here, so its time for me to hit the sack. Ill be back on for the latest on this thread in the afternoon. Night

I am getting those checked. there are many different mags out there etc.

EEEMasta
4th Dec 2007, 08:42
Yeah, especially when we are talking about UK and US magazines of which there are many exclusive to the US as well as many exclusive to the UK. Thanks for being so helpful mods. You are doing far more than I expected. Ill check back in tmw

jaywalker2309
4th Dec 2007, 09:08
Yeah, especially when we are talking about UK and US magazines of which there are many exclusive to the US as well as many exclusive to the UK. Thanks for being so helpful mods. You are doing far more than I expected. Ill check back in tmw

I aint a marketing person. I aint in PR. I am talking about my `personal` opinions/thoughts here.

Someone mentioned about Sony and the problem they had. They had invented a person and had them review their movies, they got into trouble for it, and rightly so.

However the `practise` of taking a lengthy paragraph and extracting the sentence that reads the best is definitely still happening on movie posters even now. I personally think its cheeky, but its not illegal. If someone says something is "the best movie i've seen in the last 24 hours", there is nothing stopping someone saying they said it was "the best movie i've seen....". The "..." being the `more was said, but you gotta find out that for yourself` bit.

Lots of people will say its wrong, but you'll find thats why a lot of reviewers are very careful now NOT to open themselves to quotes like that (altho people always find a way to find the words they want)

Update - Site has been amended removing the confusing stars

skeetermeat
4th Dec 2007, 09:11
I feel sorry for the moderators of this forum. With all of this crap going around I'm sure they have their work cut out for them.

That said,

**** this game, **** eidos, **** cnet. You guys are an insult to the gaming industry. However, I'm sure you don't care. As long as you marketers and managers have a company to feed off of for cash you'll be fine. If the company goes in the tank, who cares, you got away with your own personal stash. You can't survive on crap software and lied reviews forever. What the hell are you thinking?

jaywalker2309
4th Dec 2007, 09:23
I feel sorry for the moderators of this forum. With all of this crap going around I'm sure they have their work cut out for them.

That said,

**** this game, **** eidos, **** cnet. You guys are an insult to the gaming industry. However, I'm sure you don't care. As long as you marketers and managers have a company to feed off of for cash you'll be fine. If the company goes in the tank, who cares, you got away with your own personal stash. You can't survive on crap software and lied reviews forever. What the hell are you thinking?

Again personal opinion here.

I have worked at Eidos for nearly a decade. I love my job, I love working in games. Every title we publish has come through me at some point due to the nature of my job, and i take a lot of personal pride in what i do. I just wish people were able to think for themselves rather then see a comment, assume its all true and react to that. You know what they say about assumptions. The internet will always be home to those willing to ignore all facts and reason and just spam/troll to their hearts content.

I do care personally, for whatever its worth to anyone, just doesnt mean i am in a position to say/do anything about it.

GoranAgar
4th Dec 2007, 11:45
Keep it clean and at least neutral, people. We are going to delete crap.

jaywalker2309
4th Dec 2007, 12:01
Keep it clean and at least neutral, people. We are going to delete crap.

I always keep it clean. :)

TimmyTheGreek
4th Dec 2007, 15:29
1) If you're going to merge topics like this, at least pick a topic where "Falsified" was spelled properly. Oh wait, I know-yet another attempt by Eidos to skew things by making it appear as though the people who are dogging you are nitwits.

2) You have officially lost a customer in all things. I love Hitman. I adore Thief. But I will not do business with a company that is so blatantly unethical. When you got that reviewer fired, that just showed you were petty and bullies. Now it shows you guys just have no scruples and are willing to screw over your customers no matter what the cost, or how much you have to bamboozle them.

In short, rack off Eidos. I hope you go the way of Looking Glass and every other game developer that has gone under.

koster
4th Dec 2007, 16:01
Update - Site has been amended removing the confusing stars
Perhaps the webmaster for the official Kane & Lynch sites can update the 'Latest Press' section - the GameSpy quote ("...in the midst of a Michael Mann movie...") is still there (among other places), as well.

Eidos - a piece of friendly advice. Your window of opportunity for fixing this mess is quickly closing. Once this gets picked up by the mainstream media (rather than being confined to forums like this and the Eidos fanboy / hater blogs), you'll find the story has a life of its own. Better to take your lumps now...

BTW, are you using the same PR 'damage control' team that Microsoft used for their Xbox 360 'Red Ring of Death' issue? :)

jaywalker2309
4th Dec 2007, 16:15
1) If you're going to merge topics like this, at least pick a topic where "Falsified" was spelled properly. Oh wait, I know-yet another attempt by Eidos to skew things by making it appear as though the people who are dogging you are nitwits.

2) You have officially lost a customer in all things. I love Hitman. I adore Thief. But I will not do business with a company that is so blatantly unethical. When you got that reviewer fired, that just showed you were petty and bullies. Now it shows you guys just have no scruples and are willing to screw over your customers no matter what the cost, or how much you have to bamboozle them.

In short, rack off Eidos. I hope you go the way of Looking Glass and every other game developer that has gone under.

Sighs, once again someone preferring to believe gossip and rumour rather then facts, not that theres been many released. Only people who know really what went on are the guys in that room that day.

Oh well. :(

Have editted the thread title so its spelled correctly now.

~NeonFire372~
4th Dec 2007, 16:33
In the past few days I've been keeping up with all the issues over the whole Eidos - Kane and Lynch - Gamespot - fake review scores / money beats integrity thing and I've concluded that:


Eidos clearly values money over everything else.
Eidos is censoring all posts related to the subject.
We shouldn't purchase games from a publisher that is willing to buy their way into better game reviews and is willing to post false reviews on official sites of their games.
After lurking these forums for a long time I've noticed true Eidos fanboys are attempting to ignore the issue. I'm a big Tomb Raider fan but this is just downright wrong.


Yeah, just wait and see how long it will take before my thread is locked.

~NeonFire372~
4th Dec 2007, 16:40
I feel sorry for the moderators of this forum. With all of this crap going around I'm sure they have their work cut out for them.

That said,

**** this game, **** eidos, **** cnet. You guys are an insult to the gaming industry. However, I'm sure you don't care. As long as you marketers and managers have a company to feed off of for cash you'll be fine. If the company goes in the tank, who cares, you got away with your own personal stash. You can't survive on crap software and lied reviews forever. What the hell are you thinking?Hah - they're the ones closing all discussions on the issue. :rolleyes:

I agree 100% with the last paragraph of your post though.

TimmyTheGreek
4th Dec 2007, 16:45
Sighs, once again someone preferring to believe gossip and rumour rather then facts, not that theres been many released. Only people who know really what went on are the guys in that room that day.

Oh well. :(

Have editted the thread title so its spelled correctly now.

Once again someone preferring to ignore the fact that only hardcore gamers know that your phony 5 star false advertising has been around since before the game went gold. Your casual gamer (read: Most of them) isn't going to realize this. Eidos isn't so stupid they don't realize this. You guys are intentionally misleading the public. Anyone who hasn't been to this site before the game went gold is going to read that and think that your game got rave reviews when people pretty much universally agree that it stinks.

The company has no scruples. It has no morals. It has no ethics. And it has no TQM.

Skol.

jaywalker2309
4th Dec 2007, 16:49
In the past few days I've been keeping up with all the issues over the whole Eidos - Kane and Lynch - Gamespot - fake review scores / money beats integrity thing and I've concluded that:


Eidos clearly values money over everything else.
Eidos is censoring all posts related to the subject.
We shouldn't purchase games from a publisher that is willing to buy their way into better game reviews and is willing to post false reviews on official sites of their games.
After lurking these forums for a long time I've noticed true Eidos fanboys are attempting to ignore the issue. I'm a big Tomb Raider fan but this is just downright wrong.


Yeah, just wait and see how long it will take before my thread is locked.

As always these are my personal opinions but will respond to you where i can

The posts being censored are clearly people creating accounts JUST to spam and flood the forums, which is totally unfair for those trying to use the site for its proper use (to learn about the game and discuss it fairly). Also some of the posts were positively disgusting. I am pretty open minded but that was beyond sick.

Quick question, if this was all about buying reviews then why did we get a 6? Surely when you `buy` something you buy a higher score, not a low one. Thats just my opinion tho.

Oh and about the `false` reviews, there was never any mention that the stars represented scores (note that the stars had always been there from when the page was first launched, long before any review code was issued or scores given, so was just a design choice that was confusing. Also there were comments from sites that had given us 7, so why would we put 5 stars there?

This whole saga i think has blown totally out of proportion. However nothing i say or anyone says is going to change peoples minds about what they FEEL has happened.

If people debated things by reading up on the matter, formed their own opinion and then responded politely and without just insulting people then am sure things wouldnt have gone as far as they have. But who am i to tell people how to debate. There will always be those who think its clever and better to just swear and flame someone.

Oh this got moved into the 1 thread going about this issue. I didnt do that as i was midway typing the reply above.

TimmyTheGreek
4th Dec 2007, 16:58
Quick question, if this was all about buying reviews then why did we get a 6? Surely when you `buy` something you buy a higher score, not a low one. Thats just my opinion tho.

And your opinion is wrong. Eidos didn't buy a high score. What they bought was ad revenue with the expectation that the reviewer would lob another softball review upon the game and give it a 9 like every other undeserving game lately. What you ultimately bought was a way to instill the fear of god into reviewers from ever thinking about giving an honest review ever again because they'll get fired if the developer paying for all the advertisements doesn't like it.


Oh and about the `false` reviews, there was never any mention that the stars represented scores (note that the stars had always been there from when the page was first launched, long before any review code was issued or scores given, so was just a design choice that was confusing. Also there were comments from sites that had given us 7, so why would we put 5 stars there?

Don't insult our intelligence or think we're all so naive. You know as well as everyone else here that when you see movie-style reviews with a star rating system, it triggers a visual recognition in the brain that leads the consumer to believe it's an actual review and an actual score. Which is exactly what you tried to accomplish. This company is actively trying to fool consumers into thinking the game is highly rated, when it's not. Don't try that BS with "Well, we just decided to use stars to separate our lines in that image". Nobody is going to believe that--and they shouldn't. For the record, intentionally being deceptive like that using visualization is the key of a number of civil suits throughout history--and it never convinces a judge or jury. So your argument is not only logically weak, but also legally weak.

As to the question you asked in the last line of that quote...indeed. Why did you? That's the million dollar question. Answer: You were trying to swindle consumers out of a million dollars.


This whole saga i think has blown totally out of proportion. However nothing i say or anyone says is going to change peoples minds about what they FEEL has happened.

Because you have an indefensible position. Because you have no credibility with the weak arguments you are presenting. Because you are coming off as nothing more than a corporate spin doctor. Because you completely fail to realize how blatantly deceptive and petty Eidos has been regarding this game.


If people debated things by reading up on the matter, formed their own opinion and then responded politely and without just insulting people then am sure things wouldnt have gone as far as they have. But who am i to tell people how to debate. There will always be those who think its clever and better to just swear and flame someone.

Right. Because everyone who sees it for what it is (read: Not your point of view) hasn't "formed their own opinion". We're all sheep that has partaken in the conspiracy theorists Kool-Aid. As opposed to the Corporate Kool-Aid.

jaywalker2309
4th Dec 2007, 17:06
If you saw the forums after the story broke u'd understand the `sheep` mentality at work. It was sick what was being posted and this was posted just off the back of a rumour, nothing factual.

I dont for 1 second think you are naive, you've kinda proven that by fact you've written a more then 1 sentence response. However, I aint in marketing (as i have said many times before) and the fact that this is only your 3rd post suggests to me that maybe you are just here to incite things more?. If i am wrong in that assumption then accept my apologises.

You have as much access to the actual facts as i do, which is to say, nothing more then rumour and conjecture and personal comment. i am only saying what i feel personally, which is what you are doing..

However the outcome will affect me a lot more then it will affect you. I work here. I will be here tomorrow and the month after. Will you still be debating this in a months time? I kinda suspect not.

pat1089
4th Dec 2007, 17:13
Wow, that's pretty digraceful on Eidos' part.

TimmyTheGreek
4th Dec 2007, 17:14
If you saw the forums after the story broke u'd understand the `sheep` mentality at work. It was sick what was being posted and this was posted just off the back of a rumour, nothing factual.

I dont for 1 second think you are naive, you've kinda proven that by fact you've written a more then 1 sentence response. However, I aint in marketing (as i have said many times before) and the fact that this is only your 3rd post suggests to me that maybe you are just here to incite things more?. If i am wrong in that assumption then accept my apologises.

You have as much access to the actual facts as i do, which is to say, nothing more then rumour and conjecture and personal comment. i am only saying what i feel personally, which is what you are doing..

However the outcome will affect me a lot more then it will affect you. I work here. I will be here tomorrow and the month after. Will you still be debating this in a months time? I kinda suspect not.

Or perhaps I had nothing to come here for until now, hmmm? I am, at the core, a casual gamer. One that happens to keep his finger on the pulse, however.

Rumors? It's not a rumor that you had those "reviews" on your site. It's not a rumor that your marketing department intentionally put those 5 stars there to trigger a mental response from people who saw it. It's not a rumor that the reviewer was fired for dogging your game--his bosses have come right out and said the "tone" of his review was unacceptable--which as we all know is corporate double speak for "He was gonna cost us ad money, so heads had to roll"

It's also no rumor that developers run on slim margins these days and one bad game can completely bankrupt a company. This is why so many go out of business. And it's also not a rumor that this game is bad. Furthermore, it's not a rumor that the fact that this company got its hand caught in the cookie jar multiple times this go round is going to impact its bottom line.

Me? You're right, I won't be arguing this next month. I'll be arguing it till I get bored with it, and then I'll turn my back and never allow an Eidos product to darken my disc tray ever again.

Course, by this time next month you might not be arguing it anymore either--for all we know this will spur EA to buy your lying, deceitful company which previously had a pretty good reputation out.

jaywalker2309
4th Dec 2007, 17:27
I am just an employee saying it how i see it. Yes of course i will be more pro Eidos, just as you are being anti eidos.

The official statement has been made by Cnet and it clearly says it wasnt not influenced by an advertiser. Of course you have chosen to ignore that as true, as is your right.

i bet you could trawl the net for any company that advertises a product and find a world of sites that give information that can be construed as misleading or confusing. I not condoning this at all, just stating the fact that if you have a product you want to sell you are not going to do a `Ratner` and say `oh people will buy it even if it is crap` of course not. Thats commercial suicide.

As i said on another site, someone had to market Gigli. This was a movie universally panned, but it was someones job to push it tho. (note i am NOT comparing K&L to Gigli just saying as an example of marketing)

halflifedave
4th Dec 2007, 17:28
Rumors? It's not a rumor that you had those "reviews" on your site. It's not a rumor that your marketing department intentionally put those 5 stars there to trigger a mental response from people who saw it. It's not a rumor that the reviewer was fired for dogging your game--his bosses have come right out and said the "tone" of his review was unacceptable--which as we all know is corporate double speak for "He was gonna cost us ad money, so heads had to roll"

It's exactly a rumor! And wouldn't it make more sense to hate gamespot for firing the reviewer. Hell, the guy did nag a bit in some of the review (I assume the tone parts were about him not liking the game's characters and claiming the language being out of place, both were bad comments for the review). If that rumor was by the same people who started the whole reviews rumor, the whole thing is probably bull**** anyway.

Hell, common sense would tell you that a game's website would find the best comments about the game anyways. If that's the only place you go to for seeing if you want the game, I'm sorry, but your an idiot.

If you wanted real misadvertisement that's 100% true, look at the back of a K&L PC case.

And another thing, why the hell are expletives censored on a Kane and Lynch forum!?

TimmyTheGreek
4th Dec 2007, 17:32
If that's the only place you go to for seeing if you want the game, I'm sorry, but your an idiot.




Thank you for doing my all-time favorite internet oxymoron. There's nothing that brings a smile to my face quite like the irony of someone, anyone, saying "your an idiot". It ranks right up there with "You're to stupid to understand" or the like.

jaywalker2309
4th Dec 2007, 17:33
And another thing, why the hell are expletives censored on a Kane and Lynch forum!?

Its the same forum as used for all our titles, so uses same text censor etc.

Yeh its a bit silly when you think about it, but theres nothing to stop someone looking at this forum who is under 18.

jaywalker2309
4th Dec 2007, 17:35
Thank you for doing my all-time favorite internet oxymoron. There's nothing that brings a smile to my face quite like the irony of someone, anyone, saying "your an idiot". It ranks right up there with "You're to stupid to understand" or the like.

Just cos he used the wrong you're doesnt make his comment any less valid.

If he'd said it verbally you'd have not known the difference :)

halflifedave
4th Dec 2007, 17:35
Thank you for doing my all-time favorite internet oxymoron. There's nothing that brings a smile to my face quite like the irony of someone, anyone, saying "your an idiot". It ranks right up there with "You're to stupid to understand" or the like.

I know the feeling. I had the same smile when you claimed every rumor under discussion aren't rumors.

Oh btw

"You're to stupid to understand" or the like.

should be

"Your to stupid to understand" or the like.
not to be grammatically correct of course, but for your example of "internet oxymoron" as you put it.

TimmyTheGreek
4th Dec 2007, 17:43
No, in the 2nd example, the improper use of the word "too" is the draw that most people usually fall into.

Anyhow, you bore me. You've been slurping that same Kool-Aid the corporate shill has been downing, but you're infinitely less interesting since one could argue that you are legitimately bamboozled, whereas he is obviously just trying spin. Move along.

halflifedave
4th Dec 2007, 17:52
Certainly didn't come here to entertain you. Maybe you should find something better to do than join forums just to claim rumors are true.

5seconds
4th Dec 2007, 18:06
As a graphic designer, I find it inconceivable that the person responsible for adding 5 stars above a review would not understand that it would be mis-interpreted as a '5 out of 5 stars' review/endorsement for the game.

I have absolutely no doubt that the stars were added to consciously misrepresent the 'reviews' for the game. To argue otherwise would be to insult the intelligence of everyone here. We all know that this 'design decision' was not a coincidence.

Disgraceful.

On top of which, this quote by Gamespy is STILL under the 'Latest Press' section of the Kane & Lynch website:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/jessesalus/Picture8.png

Which seems disingenuous when this was a comment about a preview copy back in July...

The1845
4th Dec 2007, 18:08
Wow, Eidos. You truly disappoint me, I'm actually ashamed of being your customer thus I won't buy any of your games, ever again.

GoranAgar
4th Dec 2007, 18:57
I wish people would turn on their brains.

In the real world no company will ever fire someone who is considered an asset to the company over a single complaint. If someone complains about you (and neither I nor anybody but those 2 or 3 people involved know if anyone did or not in this case) and you get fired, you had it coming for a long time. So blaming anything else but that company's internal politics without proof of anything else is imprudent.

Everything else is conspiracy theories and mob mentality.

We are done here.