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eightbits
27th Nov 2007, 20:47
Is it too late to get in some suggestions for the game?

I am a huge fan of the original Deus Ex. I was such a big fan, I was in the store on release day for Deus Ex 2 when it was being stocked to the shelves. I actually took the first copy for this particular store from the guy's hands before he even got it on the shelf. I even went out and bought a $400 video card to make sure I had the latest greatest just for the game. I've never done either of those things for a game before or since.

I was so disappointed in Deus Ex 2 that I didn't play it for more than about an hour.

I would imagine it's a bit too late to make suggestions for game play and the like for the new game. But if it is not too late, I'd like a point in the right direction. Where can I make these suggestions? Is there a poll or survey somewhere about features and other game play mechanics? Is this forum the right place?

eightbits
28th Nov 2007, 22:29
OK, I know that I already posted this in another thread and that this thread was dead before it was posted. But my post in another thread along these lines is so far down the list in replies that it may never be seen. So, I'm pasting it here too.

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Some of my concerns:

1. Ammo

a) Get rid of universal ammo. It's a ridiculous dumbing down and streamlining that took away a lot of the flavor of the game. There were just the right amount of ammo types in the original. It was very manageable and was not a problem. Keep it. However, don't add more types of ammo.

b) Modify the way ammo is stored on the character. In the original Deus Ex, your ammo could not be taken from you while other inventory items could. Ammo should be kept separate from the rest of the inventory for cleanliness of the UI, but should still be part of the inventory system in that it counts as inventory that can be dropped and taken from you.

2) Skills. Please keep the skill system from Deus Ex 1. I was really hoping that Deus Ex 2 was going to EXPAND the skill system, but instead it dumbed it down too. The skill system was great. I would have like to see a *little* more granularity. The skills were too few for the awarded skill points. However, I don't think the skill points were awarded too often at all. Maybe instead of 4 levels of skill, it should be 6. Adding a few more skills into the mix could help too. And, some skills were useless, like medical, or heavy weapons. I never needed some skills so I ended up min-maxing the skills I did use. If all skills are very relevant, it will make the current skill list of skills and amount of awarded skill points perfect!

3) Weapon Mods. While I don't think the weapon mod system in the original is feasible in the real world, I think as far as game play is concerned, it was pretty damn good. However, these upgrades should be spread out more and much more rare. By the time I reached Vandenberg, I had all of my weapons almost completely maxed out and was very often running into mods I couldn't use. That hurt how I felt about going after weapon mods from that point on. A good limit on these would be to make it impossible to find more than about 3 or 4 per weapon at the end of the game. Most people should end up with about 2 per weapon while the "explorer" type of player could end up with all of the ones available.

4) Augs. Oh my god the augs! What a great great thing these were in the original! I loved the whole augmentation system. Installation and upgrades were perfectly balanced (the way the skills and weapon mods should have been.) The decision to take one/leave one was a good mechanic. The fact it was permanent made it even better. Deus Ex 2 screwed up the mods big time. They were not permanent and by the time I left the first building that was blowing up all around me, I was almost completely decked out with mods in all slots and fully upgraded! It's like the game was written for a kid who wants to win the game by merely loading it up. Let's not do that again.

As much praise as I have for the augs in the original, there was one little point that was a bit of concern for me. By the time I finished the game the first time, I realized, I never actually needed the mods. In fact, not only were they not needed, they were almost never used. Almost all of what I did was based on my skills and weapon mods. I was pretty disappointed by that. One of the alluring things of the original game was that I was an international secret agent with the latest in bleeding edge tech. But, since I never actually used it, I might as well have been a foot patrolman for the police. The skills and weapon mods would have done as well for me in that character as they did for JC Denton. (The only aug I used frequently was the built-in flashlight a lot, but come on. It was a flashlight in my eyes. I could have accomplished the same thing by carrying a flashlight.)

I will grant that the augmentations did make some tasks easier. Some of them were made MUCH easier. But I still could have completed the game without any of them. I want to see the next game put more emphasis on the augs. Where the original game's puzzles could be solved without them, the new game's puzzles should require them. They should be things that people without the augs cannot do; something to separate you from the rest of the mundanes. The catch here is that the original puzzles had multiple solutions. The new puzzles should also have multiple solutions, but all of them requiring a different aug. This would make the puzzle accessible to all regardless of the augs they have chosen, and still make you feel like like you're not an ordinary dude just running around.

5. Choices. I was thrilled by the advertisement of choices affecting the outcome and was sorely disappointed by it. To be honest, I would have loved to have been able to chose to stay with UNATCO in the beginning. I would still to this day pay for an official expansion to the original game that would let me do that. The problem we face with choices is that making a computer game with the choices we'd like to see makes the game way too big for developers to get the game out in a timely fashion. We'd be waiting for 5 - 7 years (really!) and the game would have to sell for $70 - $90 retail to make it worth the development costs. So I'm OK with the limited choices. But I would like to see a little more in the way of the choices actually affecting the plot and eventually the outcome. Perhaps making Deus Ex an online game with chapters being released each month could help solve that problem? I would certainly subscribe.

6. Setting. Please keep the game in a real-world setting with real locations like the original. That was one of the best pieces of flavor in the whole game!

7. Audio. I can't remember the music from the second game. I couldn't sit through it enough for the music to stick in my head. But the first game's music was amazing from beginning to end. It set the atmosphere and did an excellent job at that.

9. Dialogue. While I hate dialogue limited by choices, it's a limitation of computer games that I have to accept. But, in the original game, the choices were pretty decent and some of the non-choice dialogue was great! There was some really excellent trash talking in there. I loved it all the way through the game. Keep those nice little touches. They really help take the game from good to great!

10. Keyboard and Mouse. I understand if you have to release the game on one platform only and if that platform has to be a game console, so be it. But please make sure you include the ability to use a keyboard and mouse on that console. It should be as fully functional as the keyboard and mouse were in the original game. I do not own a console, but if the game is as good as the original Deus Ex, I will buy one and a keyboard and mouse for it to play the game.

All in all, I loved the original, hated the second. I hope the third will be much more like the original. I understand the need to upgrade the graphics, but it's not necessary. Using a new game engine could really open up the possibilities of what can and cannot be done. I'd like to see some of that, but really, the main thing that drew me in and made me love Deus Ex was the story and game play, not the graphics. Please keep the story as rich as the first game and I think everyone will be at least somewhat happy with the next release.

Dave W
28th Nov 2007, 23:12
Uh, there's a topic identical to this that already exists.

And I'm pretty sure alleigance to UNATCO was planned, but they didn't have enough time so they scrapped the idea.

Capn Birdseye
29th Nov 2007, 00:09
just keep it the same as the first one, but add more passive biomods like Deus Ex 2. You never used half the biomods in 1 because you had to activate them all manually.

eightbits
29th Nov 2007, 04:26
Dave W: yeah, I see that now, but when I posted this thread only three threads showed up to me and the one that like this that existed before wasn't there. Not sure why. I noticed that when I checked back the next day, so I made my verbose post in the other thread before posting it here. Sorry about that.

Captain Birdseye: I don't think that's the case at all. I would have used the augs all the time regardless of their not being passive. It was easy enough to activate and deactivate an aug that being passive wasn't a requirement. The real problem was that I just didn't need them. Since this thread is a duplicate, I'll make another post in the other thread to elaborate on that. I may not have been clear enough about that in the original post. But I definitely agree, I would have liked some passive augs in the first game.

JoeGreensKiller
14th Dec 2007, 06:06
What about takeing the role of a different character periodically throughout the game? I, can't really put into words what I mean, and im not going to write a novel trying to explain it, but I'll try a short explanation... Ok, lets say your Denton, he runs into, Paul, or who ever...even MJ12 (if there apart of 3), and you have a differnt goal, but fits into the story...and that makes no sence sorry guys, and gals, I just can't put it into words.

eightbits
14th Dec 2007, 12:11
There are genres of games out there like that. MDK2 was like that, for instance. I don't dislike games like that at all, but I just don't see that being good for Deus Ex. I liked getting totally immersed in the story from one character's point of view. Without that, I think the original game would have been just another game.

I'd love to explore the game that way, but I would rather see modules I can buy later to let me do that.

JoeGreensKiller
14th Dec 2007, 19:04
There are genres of games out there like that. MDK2 was like that, for instance. I don't dislike games like that at all, but I just don't see that being good for Deus Ex. I liked getting totally immersed in the story from one character's point of view. Without that, I think the original game would have been just another game.

I'd love to explore the game that way, but I would rather see modules I can buy later to let me do that.

Thats a good point actually, I never thought of it that way, and come to think of it, it would sort of take away from the game, especially in one. I was thinking along the lines of Resident Evil, but now that I think about it, all clara (I think that was the little girls name) did was follow you for a bit, but you right about the moduals

WhatsHisFace
15th Dec 2007, 04:19
The developers are well past proof-of-concept-prototype. It was too late for suggestions before this forum was even up.

eightbits
15th Dec 2007, 08:29
It was too late for suggestions before this forum was even up.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

JoeGreensKiller
15th Dec 2007, 22:42
Will there be a PC version? Im only asking because suggestion could be useful for developing MODS etc.

SCV
15th Dec 2007, 23:09
Will there be a PC version? Im only asking because suggestion could be useful for developing MODS etc.
I think PC should be the only platform for such a game. Console games are flat for example because of restricted controller in comparison to keyboard+mouse. DX2 areas were cut badly beacuse of console memory restrictions. I somehow fell console players have different expectations for games - they should have great graphics, not deep in-game world.
However I see one interesting console feature, that could be added to DX3 to make it even more fun: multiplayer cooperative mode, allowing two (probably more?) players to immerse in game together.

And one more thing. There should be one sticky topic to post feature suggestions. And I mean suggestions, not discussion. Maybe it's possible to limit one post per user.

pKp
18th Dec 2007, 17:35
That's NOT going to happen, sadly. Console games sell WAY more than PC games. That's just the way it is now.

JoeGreensKiller
18th Dec 2007, 22:52
I think PC should be the only platform for such a game. Console games are flat for example because of restricted controller in comparison to keyboard+mouse. DX2 areas were cut badly beacuse of console memory restrictions. I somehow fell console players have different expectations for games - they should have great graphics, not deep in-game world.
However I see one interesting console feature, that could be added to DX3 to make it even more fun: multiplayer cooperative mode, allowing two (probably more?) players to immerse in game together.

And one more thing. There should be one sticky topic to post feature suggestions. And I mean suggestions, not discussion. Maybe it's possible to limit one post per user.

Whats wrong with responding to comments made? thats the whole point of a forum...discussion.

Igoe
19th Dec 2007, 00:00
I would kind of like the return of the music that changed based on the situation. Zelda has kind of spoiled me in this regard.

I'd like to being back the combat music and death music. DXIW kind of pissed me off sending me straight to the menu screen. The "Terminal Life signs" was a nice touch, maybe improve on it and leave it on the top of the screen, like "Ischemic Stroke Detected" or "Radiation Levels above 500rem. Cellular damage irreversible" or the likes, but still show you dead and surrounded by AI barking snide remarks.

Just my 2 coppers

MaxxQ1
19th Dec 2007, 05:22
Here's my thoughts on what I'd like to see. Bear with me 'cuz I'm doing this off the cuff, and more than likely, it'll seem a bit disjointed.

First, just a bit of background: I've always wanted to see Deus Ex remade with a higher quality engine allowing better graphics, physics, and so on. I've also wanted to see the locations that were dropped from the final release. I also agree with those who would like to see JC stay with UNATCO.

Okay, enough of that.

My thought is to have the game start as Paul is leaving the academy, and JC is just starting. The first third of the game deals strictly with Paul's pre-DX missions - Maggie, the Triads, Chad, and so on. In this section, you play strictly as Paul.

The second third of the game is straight from the original Deus Ex, but here's the twist: You play as both JC AND Paul, switching back and forth following the timeline. For example, in the original DX warehouse mission, you play Paul attempting to do his raid, then switch to JC jumping around on rooftops to get to the generator.

A better option would be to decide whether you want to continue the game as either JC or Paul. If you pick JC, then the rest of the game would continue as the original, but ONLY if you ALSO decide to join Paul in defecting from UNATCO. Obviously, it would diverge if you choose to stay with UNATCO. If you decide to play as Paul, then the computer could randomly assign a choice to JC about joining with Paul or not. Or, it could simply be an option to pick before you start the game.

Edit to add: Just thought of this: if you're playing as Paul, make the dialogue options tie in with JC's decision to join Paul or not. IOW, YOU need to convince JC to join you. Also, the dialogue options themselves might be different if JC killed everybody at Liberty Island at the start of the game or not, since we all know Paul was a bit of a pacifist, at least where the NSF were concerned.

The final third of the game would consist of the last half of the original, but with diverging storylines based on the decision to join Paul or not, but you'd be playing as either Paul or JC.

It could make for some interesting in-game decisions, especially if it leads to a brother vs. brother battle later on. Not to mention, there would be REAL choices to make that WILL affect the outcome of the game, and not just APPEAR to affect it, only to basically end up in the same place. For instance, what if you decide to play as Paul, and JC decides to stick with UNATCO? If, near the end of the game, you kill JC, then it just invalidates every ending in DX (well, except maybe the dance party ending), unless of course, you (as Paul) decide to do what JC did.

I realize the resources needed for something like this would be astronomical, but if it's possible to do, all the dialogue and sound effects and such could be lifted straight from the original, at least for the path(s) used in DX. Of course, things would need to be filled in, such as what does Paul do after his killswitch is turned off? Other than telling JC to "do what [he] thinks is right"? Not much that we know about. I'm sure someone could come up with a way for Tracer to turn Paul's augmentations back on, and it could possibly be fun to play a mission or two as Paul with NO augs at all...maybe looking for tech info or parts Tong needs to get him back up to speed (e.g. your typical RPG "Fed-Ex quest").

Anyway, just a thought...

Dave W
19th Dec 2007, 14:16
First, just a bit of background: I've always wanted to see Deus Ex remade with a higher quality engine allowing better graphics, physics, and so on. I've also wanted to see the locations that were dropped from the final release. I also agree with those who would like to see JC stay with UNATCO.

There are already projects putting Deus Ex into UT2004 and remaking most of the graphical content, and a singleplayer mod based around JC staying with UNATCO.

Red
20th Dec 2007, 14:17
Dave, do you have any more detailed info on that? I find that quite interesting... A link, maybe?

SageSavage
20th Dec 2007, 15:38
...more detailed info on that? I find that quite interesting... A link, maybe?Unatco Born - http://unatcoborn.deusexgaming.com/ub1/Unatco.php

Deus Ex:Reborn - http://dxr.deusexgaming.com/?category=about
New Vision - http://www.moddb.com/mods/9009/deus-ex-new-vision DaveW is the founder ;)
HDTP - http://www.offtopicproductions.com/hdtp/

Red
20th Dec 2007, 23:51
Thank you.