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View Full Version : VAMPIRES Mellee on Vampires could use a look!



r0ckwolf
3rd Dec 2013, 22:29
Hi everyone,
i was playing multiple matches today and i get the feeling that overall things seem to be quiet balanced. Humans as long as they stick together can cover each other effectively and hold their ground against the Vamps. Vampires can make short work of issolated Humans but need to coordinate much better when going up against a group of them.
However i noticed that a skilled Human player can simply dodge all of your attacks and strafe you while constantly attacking you with his ranged weapon.
The problem is that when you actually manage to get close the mellee targeting does not always do the best job on keeping you on the target and it takes quiet a lot of hits for those dangerous Vamps to kill a human with basic attacks.

I´m not saying the mellee damage needs to be buffed like crazy or anything, it´s just something i noticed that the Vamoires are not that much more powerfull in close combat as they maybe should be, combined with targeting issues that can lead to some frustrating deaths.

What are your thoughts?

Oroibahazopi
3rd Dec 2013, 22:39
You have to pan your mouse around to follow the human. It's rather like using a short range hitscan weapon on them, there isn't much, if any, aim assist.

Reavers and Sents can melee and a human has no chance of escape (pending sprint speed perk testing), you can get away from tyrants pretty easily though.

hirukaru
3rd Dec 2013, 23:26
You have to pan your mouse around to follow the human. It's rather like using a short range hitscan weapon on them, there isn't much, if any, aim assist.

Reavers and Sents can melee and a human has no chance of escape (pending sprint speed perk testing), you can get away from tyrants pretty easily though.

Witht he sprint perk they have a chance (even without) if you zig zag enough.
The vampires auto aim has been nerfed on recommending by the alpha testing team untill present.
You just have to aim and bash the button and the humans dont stand a chance except if they work together.

The vampires where able before the patch where they nerfed the auto aim to kill 4 humans with 1 vampire.
The auto aim at this moment is perfectly balanced if you ask me.

I recommend playing a bit more and you get used to the way the vampires and humans react. (I tell you the dodge is not effective in anyway)

Psyonix_Corey
4th Dec 2013, 00:53
We've found that overly strong auto-aim on vampire melee can drastically unbalance matches for newer players. Since people aren't really using abilities at that point, heatseeking melee tends to win out over having to aim at fast moving vampires..

Experienced players don't seem to have too much trouble aiming their melee and it gives more control (less strict auto aim) in general which is typically a plus at higher skill levels.

cmstache
4th Dec 2013, 01:31
I feel the opposite, I think that the lunge when attacking probably needs to be shortened just a hair. I can turn and sprint in a straight line and the vampire doesn't even have to chase. They can just spam the attack button and attack and lunge at the same speed as a sprinter. Isn't that a TAD much?

Psyonix_Corey
4th Dec 2013, 01:40
I feel the opposite, I think that the lunge when attacking probably needs to be shortened just a hair. I can turn and sprint in a straight line and the vampire doesn't even have to chase. They can just spam the attack button and attack and lunge at the same speed as a sprinter. Isn't that a TAD much?

Reducing the travel distance of vampire melee would create an imbalance in face-to-face play, but being unable to sprint away is a slightly different issue.

This is largely because vampire melee slows its target for a brief window on impact and by the time you resume top speed he's halfway through another attack. It would seem obvious to say this is unfair but in our experience the opposite is actually a lot worse. When humans can freely sprint away from attacking vampires, it becomes the dominant strategy and often invalidates the close-quarters advantage of vampires. You gap close and swing away and it's all for naught as the human spins and flees at sprint speed...

Further, the inability to sprint away from encounters encourages team play and the human/vampire playstyle differences in a way that I wouldn't want to lose.

cmstache
4th Dec 2013, 02:20
I can understand that. I can understand that a reaver and sent SHOULD be able to keep you there, but I don't think that a Tyrant should legitimately be able to single handedly run a human down so easily without abilities. Unless I'm not understanding his combat abilities well enough.

Oroibahazopi
4th Dec 2013, 02:31
Tyrant can't chase humans with it's normal attack. It can however use it's charge ability to catch up and knock you down.

r0ckwolf
4th Dec 2013, 12:40
When humans can freely sprint away from attacking vampires, it becomes the dominant strategy and often invalidates the close-quarters advantage of vampires. You gap close and swing away and it's all for naught as the human spins and flees at sprint speed...

This is actually what i felt was happening, i will further test it though and see if the problem still is exists as my skill improves.^^

Strike5150
4th Dec 2013, 13:01
Tyrant can't chase humans with it's normal attack. It can however use it's charge ability to catch up and knock you down.

This is not true. Tyrant can melee a target down just as effectively as another vampire. Just keep mashing that button.

I really don't agree with this either and I think there should be no autoaim, and vampires should be able to walk freely while swinging melee strikes. The melee should be a 90deg cleave. That would make vampires feel like they look in melee combat. After that we should balance other skills to get back to a balanced state.

TOCHIRO19
4th Dec 2013, 14:14
I didn't even found auto-aim at all. And good, there should be no auto-aim in such skill based game. If Vampire would auto-aim human, what if hunter would auto-aim vampire ... ridiculus. If you can aim, you'll hit the target.
Additionally, that's good that autoattach is not 90deg, if so, it would be just turning around and attack, again, if you chase and aim, you'll hit.

Oroibahazopi
4th Dec 2013, 14:40
Tyrant's can get at most 3 attacks off before the human is out of range, Reavers and Sents can chase forever. I wasn't talking about melee attack power anyway, it's how far and how quickly the Tyrant lunges with it's melee attack. You can sprint away from one as a human.

Adding more aoe to this game with cleaves is really not needed srsly.

Strike5150
4th Dec 2013, 16:42
I've never had any issues meleeing humans that are running as tyrant. I'll pay closer attention but then maybe they are always dead by the third hit :).

If you remove auto aim there should be a cleave. Also its completely silly that you only hit one person when there are two humans standing in front of you.

r0ckwolf
4th Dec 2013, 21:20
Ok, i must apologize.^^ After another round of testing (especially Mellee) i found it much easier to chase Humans down with Mellee. It can still result in some goofy chasing scenarios though where you continusly hitting air while the human player is dodging with abig fat trollface on him!

Oroibahazopi
4th Dec 2013, 21:28
I've never had any issues meleeing humans that are running as tyrant. I'll pay closer attention but then maybe they are always dead by the third hit :).
I always get away from tyrants as a scout, I just need to be able to tank a few initial hits as I run. The only vamp class I play is tyrant, 3h+ playtime, and I chose frenzy just because of how annoying it is chasing people who decide to run rather than stay and fight.

Strike5150
4th Dec 2013, 22:05
I played a little more tyrant today and I can confirm I also had this issue. Didn't realize you could get away from tyrant. Nice.

Razaiim
5th Dec 2013, 19:18
Wait so I'm the only reaver that can't chase down a human without using leap attack? What? Teach me your ways oh master!
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