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JanusDominus
2nd Dec 2013, 22:00
So yeah, closed alpha.
General gameplay and balance: it's awesome. I love every class. I love the balance and general defensive humans/offensive vampires thing. I love how humans and vampires are totally different from each other, but at the same time pretty well balanced. I love how each three classes represent a stage of range (I don't know how to phrase that correctly in English), Scouts/Sentinels - far range, Hunters/Reavers - mid range, Alchemists/Tyrants - near range.
I was pretty distrustful of the game when it was announced (since it's nothing like the LoK pentalogy gameplay-wise) and I'm really pleased with it, it's apparent that the developers put a LOT of thought into it, it's cleverly made.
What I want: more lore stuff, new and old. Callbacks to the old games would please the oldies like me even more and would help to sway the ones who are distrustful of the game.
A chat icon. Yeah. When somebody's typing, there should be an icon above him, so people won't textkill.
What I didn't like: the runestones being unbuyable in the alpha. I mean, so many things, but I can't pay for them even if I want.
The use of four-letter word in a taunt: one of Hunter's post-kill taunts is "Rot, you f**ker, rot!". This is not LoK, guys, come on. "Bastard" is okay, it was in the classic pentalogy, but four-letter word wasn't and I think it shouldn't be here. I'm not against cussing in general, but it should have its place and it doesn't belong in LoK.

hirukaru
2nd Dec 2013, 23:03
Dear JanusDominus,

Can you please use the Enter key to make the topic more readable.

Near range --> Close range.
Mid range --> medium range

I read you want to see more things about the new and old LOK games. This game is placed inside a certain time, probably some maps will show certain things about the past.

You are saying a chat icon, even though this could be implemented this will not take away that text killing won't happen. There is a way you can chat at the character selection part and when you are safe. Do not chat when you are about to be attacked, that is just what I think.

The runestones are unbuyable because the internal test are testing the balance of these items and the prices. This to the fact if items change there value change and people can start to complain.

Well your last point I do not know, I am not a LOK database.

JanusDominus
2nd Dec 2013, 23:12
I read you want to see more things about the new and old LOK games. This game is placed inside a certain time, probably some maps will show certain things about the past.Just the references. I'm not asking to have mind-boggling story details or, The Elder God forbid, continue the story, but referencing past events and characters would be great. Like the Alchemists belonging to the order called "Red Sisters of Anacrothe" - that's real cool. Or vampires mentioning Raziel and Kain. Little things like this.

You are saying a chat icon, even though this could be implemented this will not take away that text killing won't happen. There is a way you can chat at the character selection part and when you are safe. Do not chat when you are about to be attacked, that is just what I think.Of course it won't take it away completely, but at least some players, who are cool enough not to break fun for everyone won't attack when they see it. And of course one shouldn't text while fighting, but well, if I'm out of fight in what looks like relative safety, I might want to tell my teammates something.

JanusDominus
4th Dec 2013, 00:08
Dec 3:
Was once again pleasantly surprised when I bought a new skill for Scout - Grappling hook and found out how many vantage points I can access. The system is well made and simple to use and reminds me a great deal of Batman: Arkham games and everybody who played those knows that this is a good thing. Again goes to show how well thought-out the gameplay is.
Matchmaking could use some work. Yesterday I had some matches in which we trumped the opposition. Today we had some really devastating defeats.
I still don't understand what the leveling system is for. Got to level 3 with Tyrant, but it didn't give me any bonuses.
Had some bugs - stuck in the wall once and got into what seems to be a spectator mode.

Psyonix_Corey
4th Dec 2013, 01:34
RE: leveling, please see this thread:
http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=8296

It's in a bit of a half-done state right now for the Alpha as we pulled some features before launch and are in the process of replacing them to make leveling have a payoff.

JanusDominus
4th Dec 2013, 02:18
I see, thanks for the answer, Corey!

JanusDominus
5th Dec 2013, 00:20
Dec 4:
Matchmaking takes away a lot of the fun rank 5+. Maybe the matchmaking could be done by pitting players who have the biggest skill quotient which should be number of kills divided by time playing plus number of assists divided by time playing, minus the number of deaths divided by time playing. Or something.
Tyrant seems to heavily rely on others. Sentinels and Reavers can get away, but Tyrants are too slow to get away with Ignore Pain. Each time I tried to tank, I felt like a kamikaze. Though it seems to also be influenced by a map - Valeholm got me killed a lot as a Tyrant, but I dominated Provance.
SUGGESTION: Could there be a voice message option like in Counter-Strike or Team Fortress? You press a button to open the voice message options, then another one to choose a message. This would help a great deal with coordinating the attacks for Vampires, since not everybody's got their mics on and texting takes too long.
SUGGESTION: Could there be an indicator for Tyrant's Jump Attack skill? It's real easy to overshoot.

lucinvampire
5th Dec 2013, 08:53
I agree about Tyrant - he's my fave and usually first pick to a game but if the opposition are playing in a certain way or in a certain area on a map - then I'll change. It depends on the map and location to if he works. :D I agree on the jump - really didn't think it'd go that far the first time I did it - landing in the sea is a bad thing - though highly amusing :D

JanusDominus
5th Dec 2013, 20:42
Oh, heya, lucin. I'm RT on Steam, you were in my team at Provance yesterday. I'm also known as Count D on Eidos forums. Boy do I have a lot of nicknames.
Dec 5:
Didn't play for long, but it was all good fun, I had some nice balanced matches with a lot of tension. This time around, my Tyrant was much more dangerous. Jump allowed for good getaways if things get awry and I just learnt that holding LMB allows for more damage and distance, so I had that going for me. Also, Jump helped me in picking off stray Scouts who were hiding in the rooftops away from their teams.

lucinvampire
5th Dec 2013, 23:10
Oh, heya, lucin. I'm RT on Steam, you were in my team at Provance yesterday. I'm also known as Count D on Eidos forums. Boy do I have a lot of nicknames.

Awesome didn't realise it was you with a different names :D was fab to play with you and hope to again!

JanusDominus
7th Dec 2013, 01:09
Alrighty, Dec 6.
Can't decide if matchmaking made it so painful or the amount of caffeine I took during last 72 hours made me so easily frustrated.
I'm getting sick to death of Freeport. I had THREE games in a row on it today. THREE. The map is perfectly fine, it's a good level, but I'm playing too much on it. During my whole alpha experience I had about 60% of Freeport, 25% of Valeholm and a measly 5% of Provance (and the latter happens to be my favorite map). So I propose a
SUGGESTION: Filter options maybe? I'm not asking for a full-on server/map list like TF2 (though that would be nice), but being able to choose your map would help a lot.
Though I think you're going to implement this soon either way. Now I have another SUGGESTION that I think wasn't propose so much. So...
SUGGESTION: Leavers, the really unpleasant guys who abandon the team are always annoying. Also annoying can be the other team suddenly having an advantage in numbers. So, why don't you have a thingy where an AI player helps the smaller team whenever someone leaves. He's there up until another player joins, just to keep the game more fair.
Had the game disconnect me from the server twice today.

lucinvampire
7th Dec 2013, 01:41
It's not quite the same thing but if a player drops from a team, if someone comes on and searches they can/are put into the in progress game, it doesn't always happen though. It is very hard when someone drops from a game to get a win with the team with less players.

JanusDominus
7th Dec 2013, 03:07
Yeah, but while they wait, they can have an AI player fight for them. When the new player joins, the AI is kicked out.

RomanianRoman
7th Dec 2013, 05:09
So i'm new to testing and leaving feedback, so i have no idea where to say this, so i'll just put it here. But I think it would be nice to be able to see other players game stats instead of just their steam playercard. Now I just mean their "Overall" stats, seeing the individual for each side would allow to much advantage to some peoples play style. But to be able to see the overall stats, you could see how much time a person has put into the game, and a general idea of how good they are.

JanusDominus
10th Dec 2013, 01:59
Today's experience was horrible. Only one winning match, most of the time I got the losing team against very experienced opponents and even if the first round was half-decent, the second is always horrifying. The lack of communication (which would be rectified a bit with voice commands) also kills.

JanusDominus
11th Dec 2013, 22:23
Last two days were a mixed bag, I got some good matches and some bad. I think I'm getting better at the game. Today had my first real good run as a Reaver - I don't use those guys very often because, well, as a rule there's always a Reaver player on the team. Also I'm not good at doing stuff after the pounce. Also I'm generally not bad of a Scout, although of rapid-fire rather than sniper variety. Decided to list the skills I bought throughout the game:
Tyrant: Jump Slam, Shockwave
Alchemist: Flamethrower
Scout: Grappling Hook, War Bow
Doesn't seem much, but I only buy perms.
Next on my priority list is Siege Bow for the Hunter.

JanusDominus
12th Dec 2013, 23:38
Alrighty, finally got to try out the War Bow. Idk, It's kinda OP, but in the same time if vamps get close and you haven't drawn it already, you're pretty much screwed - it's hard to survive with six arrows, with four it turns into an unforgettable adventure. It's very irritating to the enemies too: by the end of the round most of the team was at my throat, especially the Sentinels. They didn't say anything, but seeing as they were all going at me, it seems that they were a bit dissatisfied with me.

Strike5150
13th Dec 2013, 12:31
War bow is good against an average team, against a good team your meat. You will never have enough space to draw that thing, and no one will play a sentinal vs you or at least a standard sentinal.

However if you are looking for the best way to utilize it, I would suggest camo and grapple. This allows you to get a height advantage from which you can drop to disengage your enemy, also camo works to give you enough space to draw once without being a target in a team fight.

lucinvampire
13th Dec 2013, 13:33
Those are good choices Janus - I love being on the receiving end of a Tyrant jump attack - you just look up and go ahhhhhhhhhh!
Siege Bow is good - I've used and it's pretty fun but the recoil.
Alchemist flamethrower is awesome fun don't you think? - If I stand no chance and your surrounded by 4 vamps - turn it on and at least get some damage in before you die - epic! :D I've tried the healing with her but usually as the first person to die in a team its not really good for me - if you can survive a bit to boost your team (though without a second ability you really need their protection more) then it is worth a go...that or the poison thing is pretty fun. :D
Scout - is the grappling hook any good or is it just instant death being so visible? (Though got dropped on a roof as Alchemist the other day - which was pretty funny - 'cause those vamps weren't expecting alc bombs from above lol) turrets are good...who doesn't love turrets - their pure awesomeness!

JanusDominus
13th Dec 2013, 14:02
Scout - is the grappling hook any good or is it just instant death being so visible? (Though got dropped on a roof as Alchemist the other day - which was pretty funny - 'cause those vamps weren't expecting alc bombs from above lol) turrets are good...who doesn't love turrets - their pure awesomeness!The best way is to be discreet (I'll get camo to supplement it), go solo and take out the enemies who are after your team. Pretty specific scenario, but might be pretty good both for the team and for the scout player.
Alchemist flamethrower is awesome fun don't you think? - If I stand no chance and your surrounded by 4 vamps - turn it on and at least get some damage in before you die - epic! I've tried the healing with her but usually as the first person to die in a team its not really good for me - if you can survive a bit to boost your team (though without a second ability you really need their protection more) then it is worth a go...that or the poison thing is pretty fun.Yeah, the flamethrower can get real good. If the vamp's already wounded, he'll turn Kentucky Fried Bloodsucker real fast.
However if you are looking for the best way to utilize it, I would suggest camo and grapple. This allows you to get a height advantage from which you can drop to disengage your enemy, also camo works to give you enough space to draw once without being a target in a team fight.Thanks, I'll keep this loadout in mind!

JanusDominus
17th Dec 2013, 21:20
Strap in, kids, this isn't going to be a happy one.
Matchmaking (or lack thereof) is making me nuts. I'm tired to death of being constantly pitted against 10+-15+ teams with a bunch of newbies with me. This game hates my goddamn guts and it's really getting on my nerves. See the enthusiasm in the first post? Yeah. None of it now. Being the sole competent player on a team that fights against a team of competent players isn't fun. At all. It's frustrating as hell. The balance issues, the new maps, whatever you're saving for Wednesday is all great stuff. But it all doesn't matter to me if a game keeps casting me as a goddamn punching bag. I'm tired of it. I'm on the edge right now. This is really stressful. Not being terrible, but still losing and being unable to do anything with the situation is really stressful.
Eric was in one games with me (RT). He knows. We had roughly equal amount of newbies and more experienced players. So naturally THE GAME GAVE ME THE NEWBS WHILE THE EXPERIENCED ONES GOT TO WIPE THE FLOOR WITH US. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH.
I understand that this little rant will probably get me banned... but I'm really on the edge right now. And hey, you wanted feedback, here it is.

Also I had the sound bug on valeholm and provance.

Monkeythumbz
17th Dec 2013, 21:24
Strap in, kids, this isn't going to be a happy one.
Matchmaking (or lack thereof) is making me nuts. I'm tired to death of being constantly pitted against 10+-15+ teams with a bunch of newbies with me. This game hates my goddamn guts and it's really getting on my nerves. See the enthusiasm in the first post? Yeah. None of it now. Being the sole competent player on a team that fights against a team of competent players isn't fun. At all. It's frustrating as hell. The balance issues, the new maps, whatever you're saving for Wednesday is all great stuff. But it all doesn't matter to me if a game keeps casting me as a goddamn punching bag. I'm tired of it. I'm on the edge right now. This is really stressful. Not being terrible, but still losing and being unable to do anything with the situation is really stressful.
Eric was in one games with me (RT). He knows. We had roughly equal amount of newbies and more experienced players. So naturally THE GAME GAVE ME THE NEWBS WHILE THE EXPERIENCED ONES GOT TO WIPE THE FLOOR WITH US. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH.
I understand that this little rant will probably get me banned... but I'm really on the edge right now. And hey, you wanted feedback, here it is.

Also I had the sound bug on valeholm and provance.

I think it's safe to say that Matchmaking is one (if not the top) of our priorities right now.

Psyonix_Corey
17th Dec 2013, 22:28
Hi Janus,

Team balancing is being actively worked on. One challenge is our system inherently doesn't let "parties" be broken up. So there are blocks of users (level 10+ typically) playing daily as a squad, and they're always on the same team because they matchmake from a party lobby.

We do this to prevent exploits where friends could get into matches and farm eachother for Gold, leaderboard stats, etc. But we're going to look at lifting it indefinitely until Beta or beyond when we have a sufficient population to try to match premade groups separately from solo queuers like yourself.

Oroibahazopi
17th Dec 2013, 22:38
match premade groups separately from solo queuers like yourself.
Vindicated.

You could party 8 people right now and farm gold pretty easily. Just have to fluke the initial free lobby and then stay grouped.

JanusDominus
18th Dec 2013, 21:11
Alrighty, today I had two bad games and three good games and the last one was good, so I'm in the good mood.
Sommerdamm, Sommerdamm, Sommerdamm... What can I say about it? One word: awesome. It's good to see a dark and moody map set in the night. And the map itself is nice - it's big, it's full of places to hide AND of open places and it has some continuity nods - nice Sarafan statue and awesome banner with the Sarafan Tomb logo. Seems mostly to be a hunting ground for Reavers and Sentinels. Anyways, I like it. I also love the way the name of the map is written on the loading screen, with Futhark in the background.
Overall - another awesome map. Might even be the best one yet.
Got myself enough money for another skill and guess what, I'm going Savage now.

I still suggest to add the "I'm typing" icon.

JanusDominus
19th Dec 2013, 18:57
Just had a horrifying game and I'm not in the mood to play again today. Long story short, Hunter is beyond OP. The class practically defines OP. Four hunters tore up a team of reavers/sentinels with the awful score. Bola is OP. You get bola'd, you're dead, plain and simple. Make it harder to aim - or at least unusable on flying sents and bring back the jumpdodge. Come on. I already can't climb, can't attack, can't do jack. If I'm bola'd, I'm as good as dead.
Poison Bola is even worse. Not only it's a straight upgrade - and no, slighlty reduced length and increased cooldown don't cut it, it's still way too powerful. You're poison-bola'd, you don't have a chance.
Can you make landing manual? A lot of times I was going for a kidnap, but because of server latency, lag or some other issues I ended up landing IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ENEMY TEAM. I get killed because the game doesn't listen to me. That's bull. Can you make it so I need to press Spacebar again to start walking?

Psyonix_Corey
19th Dec 2013, 19:16
Just had a horrifying game and I'm not in the mood to play again today. Long story short, Hunter is beyond OP. The class practically defines OP. Four hunters tore up a team of reavers/sentinels with the awful score. Bola is OP. You get bola'd, you're dead, plain and simple. Make it harder to aim - or at least unusable on flying sents and bring back the jumpdodge. Come on. I already can't climb, can't attack, can't do jack. If I'm bola'd, I'm as good as dead.
Poison Bola is even worse. Not only it's a straight upgrade - and no, slighlty reduced length and increased cooldown don't cut it, it's still way too powerful. You're poison-bola'd, you don't have a chance.
Can you make landing manual? A lot of times I was going for a kidnap, but because of server latency, lag or some other issues I ended up landing IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ENEMY TEAM. I get killed because the game doesn't listen to me. That's bull. Can you make it so I need to press Spacebar again to start walking?

Evasion, Ignore Pain, and Takeoff all break bola.

JanusDominus
19th Dec 2013, 19:21
...provided that you have Takeoff. And yeah, I didn't know it breaks bolas off.

ZangarftheWrassler
19th Dec 2013, 19:45
Yeah, Bola-breaking/surviving is by far one of the most early game tactics you need to learn. I think it's always guaranteeing that your class has a counter to the more powerful abilities. I do agree that maybe sent needs a counter for that out of the gate or a lot of players will be discouraged from using them. At the same time, standard sent tactics should NOT have you up close and personal with opponents that regularly.

Oroibahazopi
19th Dec 2013, 20:07
Takeoff just makes you Scout bait.

JanusDominus
19th Dec 2013, 21:25
Yeah, Bola-breaking/surviving is by far one of the most early game tactics you need to learn. I think it's always guaranteeing that your class has a counter to the more powerful abilities. I do agree that maybe sent needs a counter for that out of the gate or a lot of players will be discouraged from using them. At the same time, standard sent tactics should NOT have you up close and personal with opponents that regularly.I wouldn't be up close and personal with them if I didn't LAND instead of kidnapping.

ZangarftheWrassler
19th Dec 2013, 21:32
I wouldn't be up close and personal with them if I didn't LAND instead of kidnapping.

LOL GET GUD AT SENT SON. GAWD! Yeah, that's one frustrating thing. I feel the need to fly low a lot so I end up landing. I would recommend reading Hugs post (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=8597) about Sentinel Strats. It's pretty well written and explains the class pretty well so you can play it without that issue so much. FOREWARNING: It's long, but worth it.

RainaAudron
19th Dec 2013, 22:28
Yeah, I´m having the same issue with sentinel, often lands when I don´t want him to...

This is a little OT but I noticed that when the knives are thrown at vampires, they get stuck in them by the blunt end and not the actual blade, it looks kinda strange :D

lucinvampire
20th Dec 2013, 09:48
This is a little OT but I noticed that when the knives are thrown at vampires, they get stuck in them by the blunt end and not the actual blade, it looks kinda strange :D

Lol eagle eye Raina ;) I don’t think anyone has ever mentioned that – maybe they are double ended!?!?!? :D

Psyonix_Eric
20th Dec 2013, 10:11
That one has been known internally for awhile and it bugs the hell out of me. :( It's on the list of things to fix.

hirukaru
20th Dec 2013, 11:45
Noticed it to.

But Eric isnt this very hard to fix.

The animation is a turning animation.
So if the blunt parts hit they cannot turn around on the animation of the vampire. (That would look strange)

So there are a couple of things that can fix it.
Double edged blades,
Chance when blunt side hits let knives fall down but make enemy disoriented and small stun.
Or a hard one.
Calculate the distance towards the vampire you throw it at and make the knives fly in a certain way so when they hit they hit with the sharp part forward. (This is very hard cause it has to recalculate every single second cause vampire is moving and the speed the knives rotate cannot change that much to let the players see the speed is changing)

Or a stupid one.
Let the knives turn around when they are on the body of the vampire. :P

hirukaru
20th Dec 2013, 12:06
Evasion, Ignore Pain, and Takeoff all break bola.

Use poison bola and you stay poisoned. Will this be fixed?

RainaAudron
20th Dec 2013, 13:30
Oh I see, thanks Eric! I figured you guys might know, but wasn´t sure since nobody mentioned it yet. Thanks a lot into looking into that chat glitch/different button config problem, it somehow seems to me that it still thinks chat is assigned to T while I have it on enter and just works at random...

Psyonix_Corey
20th Dec 2013, 17:09
Use poison bola and you stay poisoned. Will this be fixed?

Working as intended... Think of it like the Bola poisoned you and then you cut it off... you're already poisoned, breaking it just lets you use your arms.

Oroibahazopi
20th Dec 2013, 17:21
Free dps for Hunters because they're really lacking in the dps department right now amirite?

JanusDominus
28th Jan 2014, 23:33
Boy did I not post in a while. Aight.
Ever since the latest update the balance was skewered towards vamps. The matches turn into "wait until you're vampire and kick ass".
Bought Abduct. Totally OP, should nerf it.
Also Choking Haze seems to be OP at the moment. Should keep the poison status effect, but nerf it a bit.
Provance has a working fountain. With, like, water in it.

cmstache
28th Jan 2014, 23:54
Before that though it was, "survive and keep the vampire kills to a minimum" to "Woot human, time to shut down EVERYTHING the vampires can throw at you."

JanusDominus
7th Feb 2014, 08:08
The balance is better, but still skewered towards vamps. This'll come into play later this post.
Sents are (mostly) back from unstoppable killing machines into their usual role of "Would be a shame if someone flew by and snatched- Oh, here we go"
Reavers seem to be back into being all the rage, bread and butter of vampires.
Tyrants got issues. I still have troubles with this class, it's the most frustrating for me to play. If someone can spare an advice, I'd be grateful. Also Tyrants got technical issues, namely hit detection is ropey at times - sometimes I CLEARLY hit a guy, but the game doesn't detect it, his friends come, he has enough time at the supply closet and I die.
Current tiebreaker system is bad. Right now it boils down to which team got to play vampires first. This is no good. Obviously it's also due to balance issues and all the jazz, but nonetheless. I had a ton of fun in my last match as both a human scout (quick-shooting with Swiftbow is really awesome) and a Tyrant (even with issues, but I did manage to score a triple, so it's all good), until the match ended on 51:51 tie and the other team won because they got to play vampires first. And then I forgot all the fun I had because I was frustrated to no end.
Also some people can cheat and boost their stats by leaving the matches they lose right before the final hit and staying only through the winning matches. But! I have an idea how to fix that. Every leave should count as a defeat. But how do you know who was thrown out because of the technical issues and who was a leaver? It's simple: make the "Yes" button on "Do you really want to quit" a defeat trigger.

ALSO
Concerning the vids:
Siege mode is nothing special, but it's a good mode to have nonetheless. I dig objective-based multiplayer a lot.
The Deceiver. The idea obviously is the same as with Spy of Team Fortress and he does it fairly well, with a few spins of his own (I love the doppelganger summon ability). I also like how he looks - elongated limbs link back to SR1 and in general he looks like one creepy nasty lab accident, which was obviously the intent. Not sure about the Dominate Mind ability though, it could be very frustrating to just sit back and watch what he does with you.

Lomonop
7th Feb 2014, 08:41
But how do you know who was thrown out because of the technical issues and who was a leaver? It's simple: make the "Yes" button on "Do you really want to quit" a defeat trigger.
One could always pull out the internet cable to cause a connection failure, though. But there is no way to prevent that from happening. I like your idea.

cmstache
7th Feb 2014, 16:20
ummm crtl+alt+del.... done.

Vampmaster
7th Feb 2014, 21:13
The fairest way to deal with this is usually to let the person get a way with it the first couple of times and start adding increasing penalties after that. Once or twice, you might get interupted or disconnected or something, but if you're quitting continuously, then it's probably on purpose.

You can't guarantee it, but that's the fairest guess you can make.