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View Full Version : VAMPIRES Third person heavily favors vampires.



Oroibahazopi
29th Nov 2013, 19:21
Means you can pounce from total cover which is silly given some of the pounces can do 750 damage imo.

Also as a human if there is any "soft" stuff behind you it can actually obscure your vision. Not to mention what happens when you're backed up to a wall.

hirukaru
29th Nov 2013, 22:05
I agree that when playing human the surrounding can obstruct your view. (Also dislike the 1/2 FOV drop when using scout with power shot)
Also the savage pounce does indeed now do 750 dmg (I got a feeling this got boosted, but I can be wrong).

I do not know if it favors the vampires, this is different for all kind of players.

Oroibahazopi
30th Nov 2013, 02:48
It means that vamps do not need to break cover to see the human's turtle, and I've seen some players pull of some very dubious Reaver jumps and Sent dives. Ricocheting off walls etc.

Strike5150
30th Nov 2013, 10:09
Savage pounce is retarded strong, almost always kills the target unless they had full health. It also does way too much damage from very close range.

cmstache
30th Nov 2013, 19:02
The easiest fix IMO for this is to just have a zoom-in for the reaver, similar to a scout's drawn bow, thus cutting the vision down.

Worm4real
1st Dec 2013, 04:27
Even if pounce was locked to first person mode only it'd be just as overwhelming I think.

cmstache
1st Dec 2013, 04:45
It'd prevent people from looking over the buildings, making them vulnerable while lining it up, unlike now.

Belucard
2nd Dec 2013, 21:18
Well, Pounce indeed has a way too big damage AND range. I feel like they should reduce one of them, and I clearly vote for range, as I think that they're supossed to be assassins (high damage and mobility, but weak and without too many ways to escape).

Psyonix_Corey
2nd Dec 2013, 23:44
We really like long range Pounce being an option because it can reward some silly skillshots at distance, but I'm keeping an eye on impact damage and it was reduced last week internally already (and will be in the next patch you guys get).

hirukaru
3rd Dec 2013, 11:43
We really like long range Pounce being an option because it can reward some silly skillshots at distance, but I'm keeping an eye on impact damage and it was reduced last week internally already (and will be in the next patch you guys get).

Happy to hear this.
I agree the distance = more damage system is fair, cause you need skill to jump from miles away.
But the base damage as you said it is changed internal already was a bit to high.

Thanks for the update Corey.

Strike5150
3rd Dec 2013, 13:43
The regular pounce was OK in my opinion, but the Savage Pounce is seriously OP.

Razaiim
3rd Dec 2013, 19:12
So long as leap attack stays the same I'm good, I enjoy the quick burst of damage during a longer fight, and it is a wonderful escape tool when I don't have evade (either on CD or just don't have it)

Smeesh
4th Dec 2013, 03:42
Wait, are all of you serious about Savage Pounce being OP? The hitbox on it is super tiny, the human you're pouncing on has to be completely still (or you have to miss in the first place and get lucky and have them move into it), ANY charged scout attack knocks you out of it (even swiftbows, which shouldn't happen imo) and the damage upgrade is like 250 max. That's not OP unless you just are in the habit of standing in one place as a human out in the open and have no scouts on your team. If that's the case, everything is probably OP.

Strike5150
4th Dec 2013, 12:52
Charge shot knocks you out of it because there is a damage limit you can take before your skill is canceled. This is true for all the vampires skills with exception of charge I think. There is a reason why sentinals land half the time while diving for a kidnap. If you hit your damage threshold you will look like a n00b landing there :).

All that is beside the point, its another discussion whether that should happen or not. The skill itself does way too much damage. If your having difficulty your not doing it right. I can say from personal experience that my damage in a map from normal to savage pounce is on average higher by 5-10k damage. Thats way too much, easily a 33% improvement. Not only in damage but also because the pounce is very likely to result in a kill unless they have more then 3/4 of their health left, meaning they have no further opportunity to do any damage or CC. That is what makes it overpowered.

Oroibahazopi
4th Dec 2013, 14:44
Balance should not trade target assist for damage as people will naturally get better at the game and aiming and therefore there is no choice between those two skills.

We're drifting away from the OP though, I think the 750 would be fine if it wasn't possible to attack from total cover.

Strike5150
4th Dec 2013, 16:45
If you think 750 is ok then we should probably scale the scout bow to 800. Since the scout has to channel with limited fov and you don't get a free 3 second incapacitate.

Oroibahazopi
4th Dec 2013, 17:04
The 750 isn't guaranteed, whereas with the swiftbow it's very easy to land 800 damage

Psyonix_Corey
4th Dec 2013, 17:16
Balance should not trade target assist for damage as people will naturally get better at the game and aiming and therefore there is no choice between those two skills.

We're drifting away from the OP though, I think the 750 would be fine if it wasn't possible to attack from total cover.

This is a bit short-sighted. Incidentally, we ended up with the two skills because some of our testers had trouble using an un-assisted Pounce, while some enjoyed the challenge "Savage Pounce" provided. Offering a slightly weaker Pounce with aim assist provides a great way to learn the game for new players. Not every ability has to be equal at the "pro" level.

Shirokurou
10th Jan 2014, 23:04
With how the vampire's attack lunges him forward... I would say third person favors the shooter.

Oroibahazopi
10th Jan 2014, 23:10
While I still think 3rd person favors the vamps need all the extra help then can get atm so I'm fine with it yo

Though 3rd person makes melee disgusting to control

FlareXIV
11th Jan 2014, 20:43
Considering the fact you can easily abuse the range of humans I would have to say vampires need this advantage to stay viable. If your team groups (like it should in any competitive team based game) you will easily be able to pick off Reavers who pounce in. This also works in reverse however because if the vampires coordinate their crowd control they can easily wipe your team if you don't kite them properly. In the end it all comes down to team cohesion and who has better mechanics.

cmstache
11th Jan 2014, 21:03
Considering the fact you can easily abuse the range of humans I would have to say vampires need this advantage to stay viable. If your team groups (like it should in any competitive team based game) you will easily be able to pick off Reavers who pounce in. This also works in reverse however because if the vampires coordinate their crowd control they can easily wipe your team if you don't kite them properly. In the end it all comes down to team cohesion and who has better mechanics.
Extremely valid point.

Zolfried
13th Jan 2014, 00:49
question is.. have you played werewolf in 1st person in skyrim?.. its nigh impossible, 1st person just doesn't work.. and the same applies to vampires in this game.. especially since the attack animations in this game force movements for the vampires... like my sentinel always take a step forward when attacking.. not like other 1st person melee games where you maintain free movement. so giving vampires a 3rd person view i think is fair.

The humans with their range attacks however work pretty well with both 1st person and 3rd person, theres been sucsessful games of both types, but with their 3rd person angle, they get to peek corners without actually peeking, and they also get some clue to whats happening on their left and right.. and not totally limited to the standard 70-80 FOV most FPS has.

as for the skills.. pounce is risk reward skill, you may deal a tonz of dmg.. but you jump into the smack middle of the enemies.. hunters tend to stick together so when you pounce, you get surrounded by 3-4 hunters.
for the humans however, even if he misses his shot, he's still safe with his teammates... just gotta sit back behind cover again and wait for CD.

Vampmaster
21st Jan 2014, 14:03
Maybe 1st person could be implemented as a perk for humans. *However*, it should only be while the aim button is held and not when you're running around doing other things that might rely on the 3rd person camera. That way it doesn't need a whole new set of animations and systems rewriting just to keep everything working properly.

Oroibahazopi
21st Jan 2014, 15:52
Just make the leaves invisible when I'm trying to aim my weapons jeez