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Oroibahazopi
27th Nov 2013, 20:12
Just logged on for the first time today and I'd like to know what stuff I should be unlocking plz, I used the weapon and perk filters and couldn't find anything relevant.

Also I seem to have problems as a vampire avoiding the humans just unloading their aoe nades as soon as I get into melee range, how do I avoid that? How do I cleanse some of the flaming attacks DoTs?

I'm also having problems with the space bar evade "jump", it seems really delayed to my input, is that normal?

lucinvampire
27th Nov 2013, 21:06
Welcome :D Are having a good time so far?

The unlocking/acquiring items kind of depends on what type of ability you like best to what you would then like to purchase - if you love being Reaver for example and you love his jump you can save some points and buy alternative versions of it. It kind of depends on which character you enjoy playing the most to what you will want to focus on :D sorry for such a naff answer. Do you have an favourites so far?

Yeah flames = badness lol the best thing is run away or if that fails dodge, if you are a Reaver you can put on the super dodge and run away, and Tyrant has his hard skin and can run away and Sentinel has his dodge in air thing as well as on the ground - Reaver/Tyrant are controlled by F (its an ability) and Sentinel (in air) is A or D (I think).

I've found the space bar dodge also can be a bit strange - I thought it was just me and my keyboard. Is it that it just it doesn't do it all the time? like an intermittent issue?

Hope you are having a good time :D and hope to catch you in game :D

Oroibahazopi
27th Nov 2013, 21:20
So far I like the Scout and Reaver, they appear to be the dps classes. Hunter is ok, too generic assault class for my tastes and alchemist is just spammy. Tyrants seem to be 100% required for their CC though and people seem to prefer the pounce of Reaver so I may decide to gear Tyrant instead. Sents just seem gimmicky and silly.

For gear I read that the war bow has knockback which seems pretty good, but I'd really want some opinions on what's a decent build for those classes. Unless my observations on the classes are wrong and teams don't run Scouts or Reavers.

The dodge thing, I know there's an ICD but it just doesn't seem to respond fast enough. I see a tyrant charging me and I hit space to dodge and instead of getting out the way I'm eating dirt. It's either it being unresponsive or the Tyrant's charge has a larger AoE than the melee attack range/character model.

The spamming skills as feet for humies is pretty lame, I'll usually get a kill but I'll die too which isn't great. But then I'm guilty of that same thing when playing a human because it's effective.

Yeah it seems fun so far, I was really worried that humans would be totally op. I'm not a huge fan of the complete lack of control when grabbed by a vamp but I do understand why it's required for sensible balance.

hirukaru
27th Nov 2013, 22:16
I recommend playing a bit more to fin dout what classes you really like.

Iam a great fan of all vampires and I now just started to roll into the game style of a scout.
They are all great and I do not recommend focusing on one, this to the fact that lots of people these days are Reaver spammers (4 reaver team) and I for one don't like to play with all the same classes in a party.

But if you only like one class go for that one. And you can find some information about skills in the posts that Xaragoth ones made.

Oroibahazopi
27th Nov 2013, 22:27
Unless you're going to spend real coin on upgrading you will have to focus on just a few classes to make sure you have enough build options for that class to be able to counter other team comps because of the way free to play games work.

I did suspect that Reaver is popular though, I guess I'll roll with Tyrant.

lucinvampire
27th Nov 2013, 23:05
cool :D you'll pick it all up in no time...I do know what you mean by the dodging issues and dying at same time... They are good class choices and hope you have a good time getting some fab abilities for them :D. I have to say I agree with you - definitely a Tyrant fan myself!

Psyonix_Corey
28th Nov 2013, 00:44
The dodge should feel responsive, but as mentioned there is a cooldown in place to prevent you from dodging nonstop, so if you've dodged recently you can't dodge again yet just.

There's also a difference between it being unresponsive and ineffective. Is your character responding as soon as you press Spacebar, but you get hit by Charge anyway? Or are you pressing Spacebar and it takes a few seconds for your character to begin his or her dodge move?

There's always going to be some inconsistency with online multiplayer where on your screen it looks like you dodged his Charge, on his screen it looks like you haven't dodged yet, and on the server it's somewhere in-between. That's just the nature of online play unfortunately. We try to minimize it and mask it but things like Charge are especially sensitive since it's based on player collision.

Oroibahazopi
28th Nov 2013, 01:04
It's probably to do with hitbox collision not matching what I'm seeing. Do you use cylinders/prisms for the hitboxes? I think it may be that I just leave it too late because I'm not used to the collisions yet.

I've played my share of online fps, doesn't seem like ping or fps issues. Certainly not fps.

Psyonix_Corey
28th Nov 2013, 01:51
It's cylinder collision, which is fairly standard for Unreal titles.

It gets a bit more complex depending on the attack type, though:
- Crossbows and Longbows trace against the actual vampire mesh so it's accurate in all the different poses and states vampires can be in (Flight, Pounce crouch, etc.). There is a built in aim magnetism on human bullet traces towards certain bones in the vampire skeleton and the strength is based on multiple factors (distance from target, weapon used, ironsights or not, etc.).
- Vampire melee attacks do multiple line traces following the path of the melee animation itself against the human collision cylinder.
- Brute charge is basically a big moving Cylinder trying to run into human Cylinders.

Oroibahazopi
28th Nov 2013, 01:57
Ok that probably explains it then. Don't wait for those extra shots, dodge early and shoot after ^^

Strike5150
28th Nov 2013, 13:03
The dodge thing is something I wanted to discuss as well. The biggest issue for me is that your not immune while dodging. If you allow a dodge and there is an internal cooldown it would be fantastic to also make the human immune while dodging.

I feel that if I dodge while a pounce is coming or a sentinal grab is gonna hit I should be able to avoid it. With pounce it actually works, because the pounce has to land, with the sentinal grab it is completely useless to dodge. If the sentinal gets close your gonna get snatched up and you have zero control over that. Dodging does nothing.

The other place dodge is too weak is in melee. There is no point in dodging anywhere except straight at your opponent. ANY other direction will land a melee attack on you. If you dodge into them you can dodge past the model and avoid the massive melee cleave of vampires and thats it.

Speaking of cleave, I don't think vampires cleave. It seems you can only damage one target at a time. In my humble opinion vampires SHOULD cleave. That can be balanced through other methods, but a cleave on vampires feels right. At least for the reaver.

Razaiim
28th Nov 2013, 15:01
Speaking of cleave, I don't think vampires cleave. It seems you can only damage one target at a time. In my humble opinion vampires SHOULD cleave. That can be balanced through other methods, but a cleave on vampires feels right. At least for the reaver.

I like this idea and given his animation, it looks like he should be. Maybe an alternative to haste/evade? :)

Strike5150
28th Nov 2013, 21:21
Yes good point, it could easily be tied to an ability. Although I think cleave by iteself isn't strong enough to be an ability. Since you don't really get to use it that often on two humans at once.

Syst3mzero
29th Nov 2013, 03:38
I gave up on spacebar dodge it really doesn't make a difference when being chased by vampires, dodge seems to cover the same distance as just running since the animation coming out of dodge takes too long and slows you down to lose the advantage you had with the increased speed during the dodge.

the aoe of the sentinel is too wide to dodge out of too. I have spotted sentinels plenty of times targeting me and have tried to left or right dodge at different times but always starting to move the instant they start the attack. its impossible to move from the centre of the attack to out of the aoe in time.

another dodge fail is trying to dodge the auto aim version of pounce for Reaver, its impossible, however the completely not auto aimed version misses so easily that sometimes despite landing on them it seems to ignore the player. I appreciate the trade off of the auto aim for the fast crouched running of Leap but maybe just the very smallest tiny little bit of auto aim needs to be implemented to counter the collision problems of an online game that even at low pings can cause a dead on hit to miss. (my ping is nearly always 25 but ranges from 21-33). It can be annoying that sometimes I pass through the enemy so I feel I should have got a hit because my aim was true but lag at a very low 25 ping causes it (lets face it not everyone can get on fibre optic broadband like me).

Syst3mzero
29th Nov 2013, 03:40
oh and don't forget the tyrants, if you are mid air their ground shaking stuns still affect you.

Oroibahazopi
29th Nov 2013, 03:53
I'm experiencing the same issue with the Sents, the range on some of their attacks seem huge. I don't seem to have much problem dodging Reavers atm though, but you do need to be aware of them early. Split second frame perfect dodges just don't work because the character animations don't match the collision boxes.

Balancing the pounce of the Reaver but trading damage for auto aim is bad design. The auto aim will become more and more obsolete the better a player gets better with the class (assuming the problems outlined in the above post are fixed).

I find running to be next to worthless as a whole unless I'm running from Tyrants.

Strike5150
29th Nov 2013, 11:40
I absolutely hate how much control I lose of the vamp with that silly autoaim. I'm forced to move straight at the human, oh god how many arrows to the face have I gotten for clicking attack one more time. Attacking is a massive investment of probably 1.5seconds. You lose control for that long. Its almost as good as getting stunned :(.

I remember the one patch where auto aim was off, it was glorious. You could run beside a human and attack at the same time. I was killed in so many creative ways by bazzukas and mark using a reaver I can't even count them. It made it a lot more fun, sure it was tougher for newbies because they had a hard time getting a hit but that will change over time. They will get better and in the end allow them much more creative freedom in a fight.

Should give more control to the player and encourage higher skill ceilings.