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Umbralim
21st Nov 2013, 19:31
To start I wanted to say I'm really liking the lore post for the esoteric Alchemists (I'm a sucker for the Science Cult angle, Reminds of Tech Priests :D) , we have some actual named Characters to consider like the slightly unhinged Elustra,now which is great, but the blog left me with a few things to wonder about.

If Laderic kept the secret of creating the naptha to himself how did the red sisters figure out how to make more?
My only guess being that thinking her insane the Vampire Alchemists concocted their experiments right in front of Elustra and she learned through observation?

Also I'm curious to learn more about the structure of these organizations in the human faction, We know how the vampires work, with clans and there patriarchs who are only working together against a common enemy, but what about the human factions, they must have some form of hierarchy to organize a war like this does one group hold power over the others, and how do they view each other? they may not be as fickle as the vampires but I doubt they have perfect unity?

Finally I really wanna learn more about the characters at the top, we know Elustra leads the red Sisters but who leads the Iron Guard, or the watchers. Also it be nice to get a closer look at the clan leaders, like Turel and Dumah, we know a bit about them but it be nice to get a bit deeper especially in this time of upheaval. I'm hoping after you've done the Razielim blog (looking forward to that by the way) you guys will consider doing some character blogs to look into the individuals.

Also, I'm curious to know if the alchemists work on more than just weaponry, I see some mutation potential.
or potentially the ability to poison human corpses to give a hungry vampire a nasty surprise
just some thoughts?

Monkeythumbz
21st Nov 2013, 20:01
To start I wanted to say I'm really liking the lore post for the esoteric Alchemists (I'm a sucker for the Science Cult angle, Reminds of Tech Priests :D) , we have some actual named Characters to consider like the slightly unhinged Elustra,now which is great, but the blog left me with a few things to wonder about.
Glad you like it! We're definitely re-doubling our efforts on the story blogs after seeing how much interest they've generated.


If Laderic kept the secret of creating the naptha to himself how did the red sisters figure out how to make more?
My only guess being that thinking her insane the Vampire Alchemists concocted their experiments right in front of Elustra and she learned through observation?
They recovered his notes after they ransacked the abandoned laboratory. They didn't realise that the Human corpses there had died due to immolation because they'd have decomposed in the intervening months. Additionally, naphtha as created by Laderic wouldn't have required hand cannons or expendable vials to operate, so their recreation of his work wasn't 100% perfect.


Also I'm curious to learn more about the structure of these organizations in the human faction, We know how the vampires work, with clans and there patriarchs who are only working together against a common enemy, but what about the human factions, they must have some form of hierarchy to organize a war like this does one group hold power over the others, and how do they view each other? they may not be as fickle as the vampires but I doubt they have perfect unity?
This is a great question. The Watchers are a more meritocratic faction than the Ironguard, who are more hierarchical having followed in the footsteps of the Sarafan order. Both, however can be equally demanding, capable of treating their followers/fellows in what can only be construed as cruel and heartless ways. During the events of Nosgoth, the Human factions are united by a common enemy, but don't forget we know from the original Blood Omen game that once that threat is removed, it's Human nature to regress to feudal conflicts.


Finally I really wanna learn more about the characters at the top, we know Elustra leads the red Sisters but who leads the Iron Guard, or the watchers. Also it be nice to get a closer look at the clan leaders, like Turel and Dumah, we know a bit about them but it be nice to get a bit deeper especially in this time of upheaval. I'm hoping after you've done the Razielim blog (looking forward to that by the way) you guys will consider doing some character blogs to look into the individuals.
If you demand it, then we'll make it happen - such is the beauty of working in a live environment! Regarding the Watchers, each sub-faction would have their own council and customs - they're more of a franchise operation than the regimented Ironguard. Nevertheless, they'd all swear fealty to the Watchers of Dark Eden. Having been formed under such harsh coniditions, however, the Watchers would emphasise skill-based roles and leadership would be relatively fluid in comparison to the Ironguard, so as to meet the needs of whatever threat confronted them at any given time.


Also, I'm curious to know if the alchemists work on more than just weaponry, I see some mutation potential.
or potentially the ability to poison human corpses to give a hungry vampire a nasty surprise
just some thoughts?
Alchemists also work on restoratives - healing fallen warriors would be essential given the hardy nature of their foes. As for poisoning Vampires and giving them a nasty surprise... all I can say right now is that's not the Alchemist's speciality. More will be revealed about that little factoid in due course.

So glad to hear you enjoyed the Red Sisters' blog, though!!

Khalith
21st Nov 2013, 20:18
Thanks for the info Monkey. I love lore and background stuff like this, knowing more about the faction really lets you get a "feel" for the character you playing which is a really big help for me when it comes to immersion.

Playing a Watcher and imagining the character as a young warrior looking to prove himself or playing an Ironguard feeling like an officer in this army in a desperate last stand against their hated enemies.

It's also true when playing the vampires, a proud Turelim determined to make a bloody mess of his foes to prove his superiority or a dumahim that wants nothing more than to put the human cattle in their place. It's a just a fun thing to imagine imo.

Umbralim
21st Nov 2013, 20:29
Alchemists also work on restoratives - healing fallen warriors would be essential given the hardy nature of their foes. As for poisoning Vampires and giving them a nasty surprise... all I can say right now is that's not the Alchemist's speciality. More will be revealed about that little factoid in due course.

So glad to hear you enjoyed the Red Sisters' blog, though!!

Ohh is that a hint I detect.

ZeroFernir
21st Nov 2013, 21:16
Glad you like it! We're definitely re-doubling our efforts on the story blogs after seeing how much interest they've generated.


They recovered his notes after they ransacked the abandoned laboratory. They didn't realise that the Human corpses there had died due to immolation because they'd have decomposed in the intervening months. Additionally, naphtha as created by Laderic wouldn't have required hand cannons or expendable vials to operate, so their recreation of his work wasn't 100% perfect.


This is a great question. The Watchers are a more meritocratic faction than the Ironguard, who are more hierarchical having followed in the footsteps of the Sarafan order. Both, however can be equally demanding, capable of treating their followers/fellows in what can only be construed as cruel and heartless ways. During the events of Nosgoth, the Human factions are united by a common enemy, but don't forget we know from the original Blood Omen game that once that threat is removed, it's Human nature to regress to feudal conflicts.


If you demand it, then we'll make it happen - such is the beauty of working in a live environment! Regarding the Watchers, each sub-faction would have their own council and customs - they're more of a franchise operation than the regimented Ironguard. Nevertheless, they'd all swear fealty to the Watchers of Dark Eden. Having been formed under such harsh coniditions, however, the Watchers would emphasise skill-based roles and leadership would be relatively fluid in comparison to the Ironguard, so as to meet the needs of whatever threat confronted them at any given time.


Alchemists also work on restoratives - healing fallen warriors would be essential given the hardy nature of their foes. As for poisoning Vampires and giving them a nasty surprise... all I can say right now is that's not the Alchemist's speciality. More will be revealed about that little factoid in due course.

So glad to hear you enjoyed the Red Sisters' blog, though!!

What about the generals of the human army? Do they have meetings, like our vampire Lieutenant, or they have an actual leader that gives the orders alone? Do this leader have a concil? I would love to hear about that... about how the human factions coordinate their attacks... Also, I would like to be certain: There are really no vampires from outside Kain's legacy? (lol) I mean, could there be any second/first generation vampires alive? Maybe Vorador and Janos would not know about them... It would be cool: A traitor 1st gen that allied to Hylden in order to survive, and then left them to wander alone... Or a second generation that is still hidden somewhere... it could be cool alternatives... I got this thinking about how could we do a seventh class to the Vampires, if there would be any at all, and it's lore... Somehow managed to survive until now =P

Monkeythumbz
22nd Nov 2013, 14:17
If Laderic kept the secret of creating the naptha to himself how did the red sisters figure out how to make more? My only guess being that thinking her insane the Vampire Alchemists concocted their experiments right in front of Elustra and she learned through observation?

Just one more thing: Elustra’s direct observation would have helped her in re-creating Laderic’s experiments, even if imperfectly. And while Laderic would have written down his formulae, there would have been a few vital missing (or encoded) elements he had committed to memory, in order to safeguard his own usefulness to Kain.

Hence when Humans came to try and make their own naphtha, it wouldn't have been ‘pure’.

Vampmaster
22nd Nov 2013, 14:28
What do you think about certain vampires drinking the naphtha? Maybe they'd get combustible blood or something?

Monkeythumbz
22nd Nov 2013, 14:38
What do you think about certain vampires drinking the naphtha? Maybe they'd get combustible blood or something?

They'd die. Anyone drinking naphtha would die, it'd be like drinking napalm. Kain alone might survive, but he's the Scion of Balance and is thus a very special case.

Vampmaster
22nd Nov 2013, 15:23
Nevermind, then. I was just thinking since you mentioned self torture and experiments, maybe it could have been something they tried.

lucinvampire
22nd Nov 2013, 15:32
George - but drinking naphtha sounds like fun can I try it? or get someone else too - I want to see exploding vampire goo :D

Umbralim
22nd Nov 2013, 15:58
They'd die. Anyone drinking naphtha would die, it'd be like drinking napalm. .

That actually might not be a bad idea. For example if an alchemist was somehow being struck down or surrounded by vampires I can See them ingesting Naphtha and exploding in flame to try to take some of the vampires with them, spiteful ritualistic suicide in the name of Anacrothe and the reflection of Elustras own situation. plus it would give vampires a reason to try and take out the alchemists quick and stealthy.

Vampmaster
22nd Nov 2013, 16:10
That actually might not be a bad idea. For example if an alchemist was somehow being struck down or surrounded by vampires I can See them ingesting Naphtha and exploding in flame to try to take some of the vampires with them, spiteful ritualistic suicide in the name of Anacrothe and the reflection of Elustras own situation. plus it would give vampires a reason to try and take out the alchemists quick and stealthy.

I thought maybe a vampire could adapt like Rahab did with water, but a human drinking it would need to have lost their mind!

Monkeythumbz
22nd Nov 2013, 16:41
Nevermind, then. I was just thinking since you mentioned self torture and experiments, maybe it could have been something they tried.

The forcing or steering their metamorphoses was more along the lines of the ritual self-mutilation we know Rahab conducted, combined with alchemical experiments and eldritch magic.

Vampmaster
22nd Nov 2013, 16:52
The forcing or steering their metamorphoses was more along the lines of the ritual self-mutilation we know Rahab conducted, combined with alchemical experiments and eldritch magic.

It sounds like you already have something in mind. Does that you plan on explaining where the eldritch energy in SR1 comes from?

Like I was saying in another thread, the bit about the Zephonim mutilating themselves does make me think they might have used a stretcher or something to cause themselves to evolve the elongated limbs they had in SR1.

Monkeythumbz
22nd Nov 2013, 17:00
It sounds like you already have something in mind.

Correct :-x

ZeroFernir
23rd Nov 2013, 01:44
That actually might not be a bad idea. For example if an alchemist was somehow being struck down or surrounded by vampires I can See them ingesting Naphtha and exploding in flame to try to take some of the vampires with them, spiteful ritualistic suicide in the name of Anacrothe and the reflection of Elustras own situation. plus it would give vampires a reason to try and take out the alchemists quick and stealthy.

Then why wouldn't they just shoot the ground, so naphtha would be sprayed everywhere? u.u




So, could we get some illustrations for Laderic and Elustra later on?

Umbralim
23rd Nov 2013, 02:43
Then why wouldn't they just shoot the ground, so naphtha would be sprayed everywhere? u.u

Well they could, but they would still die if they did that, its just that drinking it would be more ritual like and look cooler. They are a cult dedicated to Anacrothe after all, what better way to honor the Guardian of States than by liquefying yourself just to spite the vampire menace who would feed on your corpse.

this would obviously be just a last ditch move, for instance if they were surrounded or mortally wounded.

shayan08
23rd Nov 2013, 10:42
I read it once that What do Scarlett and Rosie call their grandmother?

Sluagh
24th Nov 2013, 19:52
Just a few thoughts about the Red Sisters:

- Think the general premise is rather good and fits in fairly well with LofK and what you've done so far:

- Agree with previous posters. It would be shame if there wasn't some "kamikaze" liquid fire move that the sisterhood performed. It fits in with how the zealous nature of the majority of humans come across in previous games, like the Sarafan.

- I think the general idea of Melchiah's clan trying to find a way to make themselves less fragile would be interesting. Of all the clans they seem to have the most "strigoi" vampire appearance, a shambling ruin of flesh.

- The Zephonim trying to mutilate themselves and alter their evolution/devolution is an interesting idea. But if that's the case, it would make more sense for them to not directly compete with the more brutish clans - the Dumahim and the Turelim, but follow a rather insidious, sneaky path (that ends as them as pathetic, spider-troglodites living in the Cathedral in SR1) rather than a "warrior" path. But it seems like the development team are kind of thinking that, so that is bang on.

- The idea of the Red Sisterhood being built on this rather mad matriarch figure who worships Anacroathe is cool. However I rather like the image of said alchemist as a bit of a pathetic figure, a bit like how the guardians were portrayed in BO1. The only two who possessed any real resourcefulness or gravity were Moebius and Mortainius (and both turned out to be puppets later on). Perhaps Elustra finds this out in her research of the ancient figure, despite building up to her followers the image of him as a great man? This creates a dilemma for her; on the hand she must appear as the avatar of a long dead figure who she knows to be flawed; whilst rationally knowing his madness at dark eden etc. to be reckless hubris and a danger to all life, human or vampire. As such the original madness of the circle continues into a new age.

-

If you demand it, then we'll make it happen - such is the beauty of working in a live environment! Regarding the Watchers, each sub-faction would have their own council and customs - they're more of a franchise operation than the regimented Ironguard. Nevertheless, they'd all swear fealty to the Watchers of Dark Eden. Having been formed under such harsh coniditions, however, the Watchers would emphasise skill-based roles and leadership would be relatively fluid in comparison to the Ironguard, so as to meet the needs of whatever threat confronted them at any given time.


This is quite neat. I think the notion of the Watchers as a bit more fluid and meritocratic is an interesting thing to develop. They seem a bit more ragtag than the Ironguard. Perhaps they're a bit more democratic in their operations, but this leads to problems, a bit like how the democracy in Ancient Greece that was absolute allowed for great victories but vacillation and extreme decisions.

Lord_Aevum
24th Nov 2013, 20:23
Perhaps Elustra finds this out in her research of the ancient figure, despite building up to her followers the image of him as a great man? This creates a dilemma for her; on the hand she must appear as the avatar of a long dead figure who she knows to be flawed; whilst rationally knowing his madness at dark eden etc. to be reckless hubris and a danger to all life, human or vampire. As such the original madness of the circle continues into a new age.

Elustra as... Lisa Simpson
Anacrothe the Alchemist as... Jebediah Springfield
Moebius the Time Streamer as... Donald Sutherland

:p

lucinvampire
24th Nov 2013, 21:06
Ok...this is an observation - and I could be completely reading too much into it but...

You remember when we first saw the trailer for Nosgoth :scratch: and a lot of people were like those statues in the bluely lit area look like Hylden...are they Hylden?! - the response was no not Hylden - Hylden are not in Nosgoth - get back to the demon dimension....you are not in this game...get back into timeline 4 :naughty:

Well has anyone else noticed the head dress on image three of the character artwork/costumes for the Alchemists? If not have a look - it looks frightfully similar to the heads on those statues - I think this might be the winning answer - they are not Hylden :eek: they are Alchemist tributes!

or not! :D

Sluagh
24th Nov 2013, 21:15
Elustra as... Lisa Simpson
Anacrothe the Alchemist as... Jeremiah Springfield
Moebius the Time Streamer as... Donald Sutherland

:p

I would like to see Elustra as Lisa Simpson. Donald Sutherland seems a bit more Mortainius to me :P

Vampmaster
24th Nov 2013, 22:29
Hylden are not in Nosgoth - get back to the demon dimension....you are not in this game...get back into timeline 4 :naughty:

It could still be interesting if they had some representation even if they aren't there in person, though. Just like Squiddy, they do have a vested interest in the humans winning the war against the vampires. They did manage to go unnoticed for however many years Hash'Ak'Gik had his followers, so maybe they'd have another secret cult or possess one of the human leaders.

ZeroFernir
25th Nov 2013, 01:07
Well they could, but they would still die if they did that, its just that drinking it would be more ritual like and look cooler. They are a cult dedicated to Anacrothe after all, what better way to honor the Guardian of States than by liquefying yourself just to spite the vampire menace who would feed on your corpse.

this would obviously be just a last ditch move, for instance if they were surrounded or mortally wounded.

I think it should take some time until naphtha kills it, so the few seconds before it does would make it not effective. Plus, in the time it would demand to drink it, the vampires would have killed you and taken your blood.


Ok...this is an observation - and I could be completely reading too much into it but...

You remember when we first saw the trailer for Nosgoth :scratch: and a lot of people were like those statues in the bluely lit area look like Hylden...are they Hylden?! - the response was no not Hylden - Hylden are not in Nosgoth - get back to the demon dimension....you are not in this game...get back into timeline 4 :naughty:

Well has anyone else noticed the head dress on image three of the character artwork/costumes for the Alchemists? If not have a look - it looks frightfully similar to the heads on those statues - I think this might be the winning answer - they are not Hylden :eek: they are Alchemist tributes!

or not! :D

Quite interesting, thanks for sharing your theory with us! =D


It could still be interesting if they had some representation even if they aren't there in person, though. Just like Squiddy, they do have a vested interest in the humans winning the war against the vampires. They did manage to go unnoticed for however many years Hash'Ak'Gik had his followers, so maybe they'd have another secret cult or possess one of the human leaders.

You call him Squiddy? Since defiance, I call him Dead God. Plus, I really wanna learn a lot more about Hash'Ak'Gik... Don't you feel the same? It would be so cool!

Vampmaster
25th Nov 2013, 08:49
You call him Squiddy? Since defiance, I call him Dead God. Plus, I really wanna learn a lot more about Hash'Ak'Gik... Don't you feel the same? It would be so cool!

Yes, we've called him Squiddy on the old Eidos forums for years now. And he didn't die, Kain just told him to burrow deep until he could find a way to kill him. The Reaver hurts him, but so far, the EG exists in places Kain can never go. He's also needed to turn Raziel into his reaver of souls before he emerges from the abyss.

I would like to know more about Hash'Ak'Gik, which is why I suggested he might have a different host in this era. Although, Amy did say Hash wasn't one single hylden, but many of them fighting over Turel's body.

lucinvampire
25th Nov 2013, 08:49
Vampmaster – Yes - agreed, it would be fab if there was a tribute to the Hylden somewhere in there :D they are a cool race – got to love those elder races…but if they did a Hylden tribute – they would at least need to do a Squid and Ancient one too!

ZeroF – "False god…dead false god" *cough* couldn’t resist that one!

Vampmaster
25th Nov 2013, 10:03
Vampmaster – Yes - agreed, it would be fab if there was a tribute to the Hylden somewhere in there :D they are a cool race – got to love those elder races…but if they did a Hylden tribute – they would at least need to do a Squid and Ancient one too!

I wasn't talking about statues, I meant like human cultists acting as their representatives.

EDIT: I mean acting in their interests, not waving their hands in the air going "Hey, Kain! Here we are! We work for the Hylden!"

lucinvampire
25th Nov 2013, 10:20
Ok my bad…that would be awesome too :D
You could take it as far has having a faction of humans possessed and playable in the game or worshippers – helping the humans of course because they don’t like those vamps – oh vampire worshippers too but they would fall on the vampire side which wouldn’t work – though could provide free power ups to vamps that have taken damage…

Vampmaster
25th Nov 2013, 10:32
Ok my bad…that would be awesome too :D
You could take it as far has having a faction of humans possessed and playable in the game or worshippers – helping the humans of course because they don’t like those vamps – oh vampire worshippers too but they would fall on the vampire side which wouldn’t work – though could provide free power ups to vamps that have taken damage…

You mean like a channeller/medium class?

lucinvampire
25th Nov 2013, 15:39
Yes something along those lines :D a little bit more mystical type characters :D (like those who assisted the Sarafan) I think they would do nice as another female order (or mainly female) to complement the Red Sisters - even if they are in league with the Hylden or Elder...which fact probably wouldn't be widely known by most of Nosgoths occupants - especially those pesky vamps ;)
The same idea for human vampire worshippers - though I don't see that ever happening as they wouldn't be able to work that into the game - 'cause why would you want to be a human twice lol - the concept of them in previous games is good though. :D

Monkeythumbz
25th Nov 2013, 16:34
So, could we get some illustrations for Laderic and Elustra later on?

Unlikely as they aren't playable, but the mask in the image below is inspired by and based on the one used by Elustra.

http://cdn2.netops.eidosinteractive.com/files/nosgoth/misc/Alchemist_Ortho_V1.5_Copy.jpg

lucinvampire
25th Nov 2013, 20:23
http://cdn2.netops.eidosinteractive.com/files/nosgoth/misc/Alchemist_Ortho_V1.5_Copy.jpg

Love it and...stolen ;)

Umbralim
26th Nov 2013, 01:18
its possible the chief difference between this timeline and the fourth one is that even though the binding shattered, Janos is still dead so Hash wasn't able to use his body to open the portal to the demon dimension and bring his body and those of his brothers through it. So we have a bunch of hylden spirits with no bodies to inhabit who most likely ended up as sluagh snacks or meals for the growing Elder God which is why there not around in SR.

I doubt the hylden will be directly involved in the games events, but in this timeline the device,(the jellyfish monster that's like a baby elder god or something and can kill with a thought that was built millenia ago) is still under Meridian. Right where the Alchemists have set up shop. We might just see some playing around with that thing in the future.

and the eternal prison isn't far from there either, and since kain had no reason to butcher his way through it in this timeline it might still be operational. maybe the Reaper guards will join the humans in exchange for vampire and human outcast prisoners..... only to help them regain the balance of their true inner Perfect nature.... of course. The Eternal Prison was one place in BO2 i think everyone liked.

One final thing, I recall that Mortanious and Azimuth had a cult, not to different from the one anacrothes got now..... coincidence? .... probably. Still they say Bane and Dejoule are also venerated in this time and its quite likely that the silent cathedral construction is going to be at least touched on in this game and sound is considered one of main forms of energy, a dejoule connection perhaps mmmhh?

Vampmaster
26th Nov 2013, 08:37
Not being there in person is by definition indirectly involved. Even in the first timeline, they had some sort of influence via possesses Turel and Mortanius. They may not have their incorruptible vessel, at this point in time, but they wouldn't let that stop them from trying.

Also, the Elder God was never the Mass. He was a giant squid who existed outside of time and it was a plant that showed no indication of any sort of sentience and I'm pretty sure the devs confirmed in the Q&As that they were two seperate entities.

While I'd like to see some connections with Bane and DeJoule, I don't think any of the triad are actually in charge of a cult in this era. Anacrothe is a long dead mythical figure who the humans don't know much about. I wouldn't expect SE to use the same story behind any Druids or Energists that happen to show up. I think the connection to them might work a different way than was written for Anacrothe.

If any guardians were to show up in person, my guess would be Azimuth. She did have her own timestreaming device and we've already seen plenty of Moebius exploits, so it would make a change to see what she got up to.

lucinvampire
26th Nov 2013, 12:28
@George - is there a break down picture (like the one you shared with the mask above) of the Alchemist that's on the Nosgoth downloadable wallpaper? If so please please please can you post it :D

Vampmaster
26th Nov 2013, 12:50
@George - is there a break down picture (like the one you shared with the mask above) of the Alchemist that's on the Nosgoth downloadable wallpaper? If so please please please can you post it :D

@George - And the same for the Razielim unless you're saving that for their blog entry.

Monkeythumbz
26th Nov 2013, 12:52
@George - is there a break down picture (like the one you shared with the mask above) of the Alchemist that's on the Nosgoth downloadable wallpaper? If so please please please can you post it :D

I'm afraid I can't share it publicly, Lucinvampire!

Umbralim
26th Nov 2013, 13:13
Not being there in person is by definition indirectly involved. Even in the first timeline, they had some sort of influence via possesses Turel and Mortanius. They may not have their incorruptible vessel, at this point in time, but they wouldn't let that stop them from trying.

Also, the Elder God was never the Mass. He was a giant squid who existed outside of time and it was a plant that showed no indication of any sort of sentience and I'm pretty sure the devs confirmed in the Q&As that they were two seperate entities.

While I'd like to see some connections with Bane and DeJoule, I don't think any of the triad are actually in charge of a cult in this era. Anacrothe is a long dead mythical figure who the humans don't know much about. I wouldn't expect SE to use the same story behind any Druids or Energists that happen to show up. I think the connection to them might work a different way than was written for Anacrothe.

If any guardians were to show up in person, my guess would be Azimuth. She did have her own timestreaming device and we've already seen plenty of Moebius exploits, so it would make a change to see what she got up to.

Oh no, i wasn't suggesting the mass and the EG were the exact same being rather i thought that maybe, perhaps the Mass was a 2nd elder god like being currently gestating in the Wheel of fate, after a couple more thousand years it might of evolved sentience and than the Elder G0d would get some competition from the Young God perhaps even been replaced by it and the cycle of life started anew. perhaps unlikely but still an interesting idea

As for The guardian refrences I can agree with you on that perhaps a more round about way of connecting would be better but I'd still like to see the Eternal Prison again as a torturer class would be quite interesting.

lucinvampire
26th Nov 2013, 15:28
@George - thank you for the response but :'( very sad now. Will there be stuff available - like individual character art/designs when the game is released?

Monkeythumbz
26th Nov 2013, 16:25
@George - thank you for the response but :'( very sad now. Will there be stuff available - like individual character art/designs when the game is released?

That's the plan!

Sluagh
26th Nov 2013, 17:57
its possible the chief difference between this timeline and the fourth one is that even though the binding shattered, Janos is still dead so Hash wasn't able to use his body to open the portal to the demon dimension and bring his body and those of his brothers through it. So we have a bunch of hylden spirits with no bodies to inhabit who most likely ended up as sluagh snacks or meals for the growing Elder God which is why there not around in SR.

I doubt the hylden will be directly involved in the games events, but in this timeline the device,(the jellyfish monster that's like a baby elder god or something and can kill with a thought that was built millenia ago) is still under Meridian. Right where the Alchemists have set up shop. We might just see some playing around with that thing in the future.

and the eternal prison isn't far from there either, and since kain had no reason to butcher his way through it in this timeline it might still be operational. maybe the Reaper guards will join the humans in exchange for vampire and human outcast prisoners..... only to help them regain the balance of their true inner Perfect nature.... of course. The Eternal Prison was one place in BO2 i think everyone liked.

One final thing, I recall that Mortanious and Azimuth had a cult, not to different from the one anacrothes got now..... coincidence? .... probably. Still they say Bane and Dejoule are also venerated in this time and its quite likely that the silent cathedral construction is going to be at least touched on in this game and sound is considered one of main forms of energy, a dejoule connection perhaps mmmhh?

I think that's an awesome idea, one of a connection between The Mass and the Elder God. If my memory serves me well, The Mass had the potential (inserted in the Device) to snuff out all life, but was utterly benign and unaware of it's surroundings. Whether it's killed though by the blood of an Ancient, or any old Hylden leads to a bit of a debate about this on this Mass info page: http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Mass It does seem strange that the Mass is able to feed off Janos' blood, and yet is killed by the Builder's. Both are strictly Ancients. Maybe the argument goes that it receives too much of a good thing?

The weird foetuses that appear to be feeding it in the Device maybe could be part of attuning it to a specific race or faction, but the whole lore of it is so messy and undeveloped it would take a lot of untangling. Although, it might make a great entry in the LofK series in the future, or as a background to elements of Nosgoth. But its heritage is to say a little messy.