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View Full Version : MISC. Feedback and Observations (Store/MatchMaking/Hunter/Reaver Primarily)



Cypherdiaz
20th Nov 2013, 03:42
Hi all, hope yall have been having as much fun as I have in this great game.
Just wanted to start up a thread where I will be putting my feedback/support/observation issues as this alpha goes on.

I have been focusing on playing the Hunter and the Reaver, so most stuff will focus around them or about the game in general.

1)The Store:

1A)In General: I honestly love it, really do. Prices (gold wise) are balanced nicely. Play a few games and get something for a week. Works for me. The only feedback I have on this is as follows. PLEASE add an option to buy a thing (Abilities/Weapons) for an hour. 7 Days is great, but if i just want to Test something (ESPECIALLY for Alpha) this would speed that up. So far I have been able to afford 2 abilities and 2 weapons (Well, one is a vamp 'weapon'). But yeh, please give us a '1 Day' option even if only for Alpha testing purposes. We are supposed to be giving you feedback afterall.

1B)Tooltips: After writing what I did below about the Multishot Xbow, I decided to add this. Basically, most of the Xbow's have really bad tooltips in the store. All of the Scout's Bows are fairly clear as to HOW they work, but this is not the case for the Hunter's Crossbows. (UPDATE: This has been fixed. Good descriptions are now in place. Thanks devs!)

1C)Videos: I know its early to be suggesting this but this is more to be putting this on the table. Alternate abilities, especially for the vamps, need videos ingame. I hate to use this an example, but consider how LoL does it. There is a small short and accurate video clip of EACH ability. You need this. It would really help people make smart decisions.


2)Matchmaking: I love it and I hate it.

2A)Ingame Replacements: This is excellent and it seems to be working rather well. Not much more to say on this, just thanks. (UPDATE: Please read below at the Leaver section.)

2B)POST-Game Matchmaking: This is referring to after you finish a match, where someone leaves (Again, after the match is over). When it goes to try to find new people..it just doesnt. I just experimented with this. A friend and I sat in the lobby after a match finished, we were the only ones left. I let it run the 'Trying to find players' from 9PM EST to 9:45PM EST. In that entire time, nothing. Exited the lobby and searched. Within 2 minutes found a game. So something is majorly hinky here and needs to be addressed. (UPDATE: Was told by a dev that they are well aware of this problem and are madly working to fix it. Glad to hear it, thanks devs!)


3)The Human Hunter:

3A)The Basic Auto-Bow: Its good. Feels a bit underpowered versus the vampires, but its automatic fire makes up for it if you can hit. Its spread is honestly horrible. But I guess that is intentional. Hopefully leveling up the Hunter will eventually give some benefit to spread. Beyond that, I think this is a fair starting weapon.

3B)The Basic Bola: For this..I love you devs. You put in a tool that is so powerful that most don't even realize but that power is entirely skill based. My god. Let me catch the rest of you up here. Did you know that a well timed, well aimed bola toss can A)Bring a Sentinel to the ground when flying? B)Interupt a Sentinel's Dive Bomb (Starting RMB and F abilities) and bring them right to the ground? C)Interupt a Reaver's Pounce (RMB) mid air and bring them right to the ground? It can do all of those, but you have to be have perfect timing and good aim. Most hunters I see keep this ability for when a vamp gets close. It does serve that use, but it also serves the use of those things listed above. I for one love simple weapons that have a MAJOR upside..if you can master them. With that said...

I do have one issue with the bola. Why..only..arms? Personally I would like there to be some way to ankle wrap the vamps. Again..skill based, gotta know where to aim. Wrap their legs and watch em fall down (Or fly off in the case of a sentinel). The reason for this is that the Bola is fairly weak against Tyrants. Wrapping em up with it wont stop a charge. Maybe it isn't meant to, who knows. Just my observation.

3C)The Exploding Arrows: Not too powerful, not too weak. I love their arching effect, has made for some interesting long range or blind shot kills. Not much else to say, think its pretty well balanced currently.
3D)The Poison Bola: I love it even more than the bola itself. But..it feels weak. The tooltip says 10+250. Is that..250 immediate damage and then 10 dmg ticks over time? Thats what it seems. Honestly, I would increase this to either 15 or 20 and lower the initial to 200 dmg (if I am reading the tooltip right). The gig here is that DOT. With that said, maybe add a tracking component to it? Similar to a Reaver's smoke bomb wherein all humans turn yellow inside of it. Id say the same should occur for the unlucky vamp caught with this bola (They turn yellow so they can be seen even around walls and such).

3E)The MultiShot XBow: First, you need to make the tooltip much more descriptive. I was very surprised when I used this bow that its a 3rd burst bow. That is a major gameplay change. Not a bad change! Just a major one that needs to be made clear AHEAD of time. With that said, this bow is awesome. Loving the accuracy and am more than happy to loose an overall rate of fire for it. For those who havent used the bow: It fires 3 VERY fast and accurate shots but has a noticable delay between those 3rnd Bursts. While the starter bow is much more consistant with its rate of fire, this bow is much more..spikey. Overall, good bow. But again, please update the tooltip in the store to include that it is 3rnd burst (heck, all of the weapons need it).

3F)Hand Grenades (NOT Stickies): Good god these are a boost from the old exploding arrows. I do have one question on these. The damage & range. Does it scale? As in, closer you are to the point of origination (Aka the grenade) the more damage you take? Or is it a flat amount of damage within the radius. Couldn't tell by the description in the store/armory exactly how that worked.


4)The Vampire Reaver:

4A)Basic Pounce: I love this but I think..it needs improvement. As it stands, you pounce and you knock the person down and deal some serious damage. IF a human teammate attacks you, you are knocked off. So far, I am 100% ok with this. The issue is the 'automatic' getting off of the person. At the point when you would normally get off of your victim...I personally think would be a great time for a little..mini-game. Normally I hate these things in games, but when you have a vamp on your chest trying to tear you apart..and you are fighting for your life..I feel it is appropriate. What I mean here is some sort of simple Live-Action-Mouse-Click-Minigame. Using only LMB and RMB. Some sort of a battle of strength/wits between the vamp and the human. Human wins? Vamp is knocked off..AND STUNNED slightly. Vamp wins? They get to continue nomming on the human for another few seconds between another game pops up. But what if the vamp DOESN'T want to continue? Spacebar to jump off at the normal time.

There have been times where I caught a human alone and unawares, pounced, and then got dead as soon as I got off of her (Yep, Alch). There was no friends to help her and she left herself exposed. I should have had a chance to continue the nomming from the sneak attack instead of being forced off by some pre-designed system. Human should have had a chance to force me off too but hence my above suggestion.

4B)Smoke Grenade: Great skill. Very balanced, has some very serious uses but not overly powerful. It has gotten me many a kill when i follow it up with a good pounce. Also..it has saved my arse a few too many times to count. Nothing more to add here.

4C)Your Normal Starting F Ability: I..Hate..This..Ability. First thing I did was replace it. Im not even sure what it does. So far this is the only out and out ability that I detest. Its like a not-so-awesome version of the Tyrant's molten..thing. Oh except you glow blue and become a giant target. I didnt use it a lot, i hated it that much. Maybe someone with more experience with it can give more detailed feedback.

4D)Haste: FEAR THE PURPLE. Fear it's purpley doom. First, i love purple, its an epic color. Watching people in chat go "What the hell was that purple thing?" "Oh he got you too?" is just awesome. Not too powerful and easily countered (Well timed bola counters it perfectly), but if it isn't countered...oh man. The run speed (+25%) alone is worth it. Love this ability, wish Reavers started with it, but I can see why they didn't.

4D)Leap Attack: Loving it so much. It really is a side-grade option to the normal pounce. More movement speed when on all fours and 0 charge time, little less damage, and no incap ability and only a small knockback. Its worth it for those of us that like the hit and run playstyle.


5)Bugs?:

5A)Haste+Pounce is a bit scary: So just as a refresher. Haste gives +25% move speed and +25% attack speed. So basically what you do is...activate haste. Wait the 1 second, go into pounce and pounce someone. What you will notice is a purple reaver flying through the air extremely fast. It seems (from some testing I have done) that somehow the +25% movement speed from haste is being applied to the speed of the pounce's aerial travel. (This is the case also with Leap Attack; it makes you move faster through the air). If it isn't a long jump and you can hit your target before haste expires..the second problem comes. Not sure HOW Pounce's damage is calculated but if you have haste going first..you do CRAZY amounts.

Had a friend whom happened to be on the enemy team. Asked him to let me test this out on him. Regular pounce did whatever its supposed to do, I forget the damage right now. I then did the haste+pounce combo (after he had healed up). He said it did somewhere between 30-50% more damage. Of course, we couldn't be very precise about this all as the other people were still actively trying to kill both of us. [Hint: having the ability to make a custom closed lobby would be great for testing. Of course, no gold/xp given for it though].

So again, not sure how this is all SUPPOSED to work, but either I stumbled upon a problem or a surprise, figured Id report it either way.


6)The Leaver Situation: Normally this would go under bugs but this is more than just that. Its getting bad. On Monday and Tuesday I think I saw maybe 2 people leave games and both of them were very quickly replaced by fill-ins. Today I had two people leave from a single game and no replacements ever occured. This left it at 4v2 and very unfun. So from that, here are some suggestions and such.

First, give us the ability to switch teams IF our team has more than or equal to double the other team's member count. So if its 4v2, someone can switch to make it 3v3, but if it is only 4v3 then no one can switch. Don't do an auto-balance, just enable an option on the respawn menu right beside the Loadout button. This button should ONLY show up if the conditional statement of member's per team is met.

Second, prioritize re-filling games in progress. I know there were other games going on at the time and people searching for games. They should first be put into a game-in-progress that had a leaver. Actually the way I would do it is as follows. When the system finds a game in progress that has less than the full members, itll offer it to a player trying to find a game. Since they could be walking into a loosing situation, let's say they get a nice 10Gold bonus for being a good sport and helping to rebalance the teams. If they say no? Cool.

Third, you really really need something like the post game setup that league of legends has. I am ONLY refering to the 'report/promote' thing wherein we can either report someone for leaving/being a jackass/etc or can say that they were an honorable opponent (And damnit I have met so many of these so far, its wonderful to see that).

I am not sure how you guys managed to balance this game so carefully so that teamwork can really be the difference between winning and defeat, but you did. Loosing 1 team member seriously unbalances it though, no matter which team looses that 1 team member.


------------

This has been updated to include Day 1-4 of my feedback. See my below post to see what was added for Day 3 & 4.

Psyonix_Corey
20th Nov 2013, 06:56
Good stuff, thanks.

Fair point about the Crossbow descriptions, I'll get them added to the database. We had some but they didn't make it into the final DB is all.

We had a "Pounce mini-game" during development but scrapped it because it just turned into "Spam LMB every time you get Pounced". It stops being interesting and starts being a chore, it's not very latency friendly, and it destroys mice or keyboards :) In the end we felt the forced downtime was a good way to encourage group play, make Pounce feel powerful, and remind players to beware straying off alone when they hear the telltale growling...

Your complaint about the Reaver's "not-so-awesome" blue ability... that's Evasion, which there's a separate thread of people complaining about being OP :) You dodge all shots fired at you while Evading and take reduced damage from all AOEs, it's quite powerful as a survival tool and can break you out of Bola.

LtGiuberia
22nd Nov 2013, 02:07
I agree on when people leave midgame. At least when it comes to the "League" play that you guys are thinking it would be nice if people could pause the game and after 5 mins people would be able to leave without getting a penalty.

Cypherdiaz
22nd Nov 2013, 02:39
@Psyonix_Corey: I see new descriptions! Thanks much if this was your doing. As for the minigame. I can understand how that can be. Was hoping for some way to do it that isn't a chore yet is fun too. Maybe later? As for Evasion. I find it annoying, not powerful. Sure it breaks you out of bolas..and then you can't attack. Its basically a "Im gonna run away now" button. I do think it might be a bit OP with the whole "Dodging All Projectiles" and id strongly suggest perhaps making the hit box rather small, but there. So good accurate shots to say..the heart will hit, but not any others. Might be a way to balance it.

@LtGiub: After the game we just had...you bet I am going to comment on just that.

Also, ello to eric and the other devs whom shall remain nameless for the moment.
As for a certain dev: Skins please? Cause..they need testing. (You know who you are)



------FEEDBACK PART 2 (4 Days)-------
(Now I will be posting this into my original post too, just for ease of reading)

3F)Hand Grenades (NOT Stickies): Good god these are a boost from the old exploding arrows. I do have one question on these. The damage & range. Does it scale? As in, closer you are to the point of origination (Aka the grenade) the more damage you take? Or is it a flat amount of damage within the radius. Couldn't tell by the description in the store/armory exactly how that worked.

4D)Leap Attack: Loving it so much. It really is a side-grade option to the normal pounce. More movement speed when on all fours and 0 charge time, little less damage, and no incap ability and only a small knockback. Its worth it for those of us that like the hit and run playstyle.


5)Bugs?:

5A)Haste+Pounce is a bit scary: So just as a refresher. Haste gives +25% move speed and +25% attack speed. So basically what you do is...activate haste. Wait the 1 second, go into pounce and pounce someone. What you will notice is a purple reaver flying through the air extremely fast. It seems (from some testing I have done) that somehow the +25% movement speed from haste is being applied to the speed of the pounce's aerial travel. (This is the case also with Leap Attack; it makes you move faster through the air). If it isn't a long jump and you can hit your target before haste expires..the second problem comes. Not sure HOW Pounce's damage is calculated but if you have haste going first..you do CRAZY amounts.

Had a friend whom happened to be on the enemy team. Asked him to let me test this out on him. Regular pounce did whatever its supposed to do, I forget the damage right now. I then did the haste+pounce combo (after he had healed up). He said it did somewhere between 30-50% more damage. Of course, we couldn't be very precise about this all as the other people were still actively trying to kill both of us. [Hint: having the ability to make a custom closed lobby would be great for testing. Of course, no gold/xp given for it though].

So again, not sure how this is all SUPPOSED to work, but either I stumbled upon a problem or a surprise, figured Id report it either way.


6)The Leaver Situation: Normally this would go under bugs but this is more than just that. Its getting bad. On Monday and Tuesday I think I saw maybe 2 people leave games and both of them were very quickly replaced by fill-ins. Today I had two people leave from a single game and no replacements ever occured. This left it at 4v2 and very unfun. So from that, here are some suggestions and such.

First, give us the ability to switch teams IF our team has more than or equal to double the other team's member count. So if its 4v2, someone can switch to make it 3v3, but if it is only 4v3 then no one can switch. Don't do an auto-balance, just enable an option on the respawn menu right beside the Loadout button. This button should ONLY show up if the conditional statement of member's per team is met.

Second, prioritize re-filling games in progress. I know there were other games going on at the time and people searching for games. They should first be put into a game-in-progress that had a leaver. Actually the way I would do it is as follows. When the system finds a game in progress that has less than the full members, itll offer it to a player trying to find a game. Since they could be walking into a loosing situation, let's say they get a nice 10Gold bonus for being a good sport and helping to rebalance the teams. If they say no? Cool.

Third, you really really need something like the post game setup that league of legends has. I am ONLY refering to the 'report/promote' thing wherein we can either report someone for leaving/being a jackass/etc or can say that they were an honorable opponent (And damnit I have met so many of these so far, its wonderful to see that).

I am not sure how you guys managed to balance this game so carefully so that teamwork can really be the difference between winning and defeat, but you did. Loosing 1 team member seriously unbalances it though, no matter which team looses that 1 team member.